(Topic ID: 131248)

Bally EM Bon Voyage won't start

By xsvtoys

6 years ago


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#1 6 years ago

OK I am a first time poster and I just got my first pinball machine, which is a Bally EM Bon Voyage. I bought this machine to 1) have fun playing and 2) go through it and learn how one of these works and hopefully how to fix it.

I got to #2 pretty quickly.

When I took delivery, it looked like everything was working as normal. I started messing with it, and messed it up!

What was I doing when it stopped? Something fairly innocent, or so I thought. I was just changing around some of the settings plugs, to see how they worked so I could figure out exactly where I wanted everything. (I thought the machine was too easy the way it came set up). The last thing I did was to change it from a 5 ball setting to a 3 ball setting. After I did this, I found myself in my current condition.

The current state: 1) Turn on the power switch. Nothing at all appears to happen. I believe this is normal. 2) Hit the left flipper. The lights all come on, and the Lock relay activates. Nothing else at all happens. Putting in a coin or pressing the start button (with credits shown) does nothing. Game Over light is lit. I can make some things happen by manually activating some relays, but I would rather be methodical about it, hopefully with some help here. I also just got a schematic in my hands and I have been studying that, and I have read quite a few of the usual articles and also the postings here.

What have I done so far: 1) I replaced the power cord. The one that was on it was a horrorshow, with at least 3 electrical tape splices. At one point I accidentally stepped on it and sparks flew. I put a nice new power cord on it. 1b) Checked the voltages at the transformer. It registers 6.3 VAC for the lamps and 58.3 VAC for the solenoids (it is on hi tap). These are normal according to the sticker in the machine. 2) Checked all the fuses using a DVM. I check the fuse and also checked it at the fuse holder and at the solder joints. All good. 3) There are 2 quarter coin machines. They were both working before. One of them had a solenoid on it which was pretty fried and the wires to it were really burnt. I am pretty sure this was a Coin Lockout Relay and it is OK to remove it. So I unsoldered it, taped up the wires, and removed the relay. 4) I checked all the tilts. The bob tilt and the ball tilt work as expected, when closed it causes a tilt via the tilt interlock relay. The tilt light comes on, and I can reset that tilt by manually pushing back the tilt interlock relay. There are 3 slam tilts, these all work as expected. When one is closed, it makes the the delay relay activate, that has a flasher lamp on it, and when the lamp cycles, the delay relay opens back up.

After reading as much as I can, I presume its all a matter of a startup problem. Based on the symptoms, it seems like a very likely culprit would the the Game Over relay. Here's where I am now. The schematic does show a Game Over Trip relay on the list and on the schematic. But, I can't find that relay anywhere! It's driving me crazy. All the relays are nicely labeled, and there is no relay labeled Game Over (that I have found yet). What I do see is a label Game Over at the last position of the Index Reset Motor Cam, which is a long cam with a stacked switch position for each of the letters in BON VOYAGE. I cleaned those switches but as of now I don't know how I would adjust those, or if they are connected to the Game Over relay, which as of now I can't find......

I'm willing to try any and all tips (that I can figure out), and put up pics. I'm not sure if this is something simple (because it was all working) of if I somehow botched the whole thing up.

#2 6 years ago

Right off the bat I can tell you that the Game Over Relay is a Latch/Trip relay, so it's going to be two coils, one that pulls in the relay and latches it, and another one that pulls in to let the latch go and reset the relay to normal. The photos on IPDB show at least two sets of Latch/Trip relays on the motorboard. One is on the front left near the coin door and one is right behind the score motor. If you manually latch and trip the correct one the Game Over light should turn on and off.

Since you have the schematic, you can confirm that you have found the Game Over Relay by checking the wire colors coming into it.

After you've tried manually changing over the Game Over relay, I would go back to the adjustments you tinkered with. Try setting everything back as it was. Make sure the jones plug pins and sockets are clean, that no wires have broken off, etc.

#3 6 years ago

OK, I cleaned all of the adjustment plugs, made sure they all looked good, and returned all of the settings back to where they were originally. No change from that.

There is a latch/trip relay shown here that is labeled "Game Interlock Relay". If I manually activate that one, nothing happens.

game-interlock-relay-1-small.jpg

Somewhat confusingly (for me) the schematic shows a Game Relay (Latch) and Game Relay (Trip) which is presumably the one in this picture, and it also shows a Game Over Relay (Trip). I still can't figure out what that is or where it is, if it exists.

schematic-coil-locations-game-over-small.jpg

#4 6 years ago

The score motor on this game is mounted almost dead center of the bottom board. To the left is the trip bank. One of the trips is going to be the game over relay. Side note: I love that the 70s Bally games are so comparable to the bingos (similar score motor, similar trip bank). I've always liked working on them for this reason.

The 'game relay' which is shown on this chart is exactly what you're looking at. There are two coils - a 'latch' coil that moves it from the default position and holds it there, and a 'trip' coil, which moves the switches back to the default position.

This is rather difficult to describe, and it may take your looking at the other interlock relays that you have on that game, but when you push one into the 'latch' position, it makes a click. When you push it into the 'trip' or default position, it is like a spring releasing tension.

#5 6 years ago

It appears that that relay pictured is in the 'latch' position.

#6 6 years ago

OK, last post within 30 seconds, I promise: re-reading what Joe said above, is it possible for you to post more of the schematic (including more of the coil list)?

I might've just told you something that is not correct, but examine the labels on your trip bank and see if one matches the Game Over. I am guessing that the Game Over is another interlock and located elsewhere based on other Bally games of the time. But, I've been wrong before!

#7 6 years ago

Hi xsvtoys
maybe You have messed it up - BUT, maybe a broken-off wire has moved to the side as You have pulled a plug nearby. I once had a problem (driving me nuts): On one solder lug of the Extraball-Relay-Coil the wire has broken off - wires are stiff, the wire happened to stay in place (XB working) -> me nudging -> the broken-off wire moved a bit to the side (XB not working) -> me nudging -> it moved back (XB working) -> ->
So whenever You look at a coil or a switch: grab one wire after the other and pull a bit on the wire(s) ...

About Game-Relay (Latch and Trip) and Game-Over-Relay (only (?) Latch): You might have to present us a PDF of "part of schema". I was looking in ipdb and found (best): Bally-1972-Fore -> http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=917 -> schema -> the same situation as "Bon Voyage".

Please have a look at the places you have unplugged "Jones Plugs" -> is a "broken-off" wire nearby ? Have you plugged-in the males into the females "the correct way" ? Old plugs CAN be plugged in with a off-set -> males go in-between the females (what we do not want).

I would like You to follow the "Start-up Procedure": http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/343/Bally_1974_Bon_Voyage_Installation_and_General_Game_Operating_Instructions.pdf (starting on page-2).

Whenever you work on the pin: UNPLUG the Line-Cord, DANGER: 120 VAC (and 50 VAC and 6 VAC) around, You do not want to touch ...
Look for the Credit-Relay and the Coin-Relay and the Reset-Relay. Take a wooden stick (INSULATION) and try "push onto the anchor-plate of these relays" - simulating "the coil gets current and activates the relay (anchor plate) - practice this movement.

Plug-in the Line-Cord and turn-on the pin. I want to go through the manual -> 1D: Front Door Credit Button Switch will energize the Credit-Relay -> -> Coin-Relay.
You are now the "Credit-Buton-Switch" -> with the wooden stick push onto the anchor-plate of the Credit-Relay -> ? What happens ? Please report. Greetings Rolf

#8 6 years ago

Just a short note, while this is the first time I ever touched a pinball machine, I do have a fair amount of experience working on similar machines in my past work life, so I am familiar with a lot of the basics, like working with voltages, using a meter, soldering and recognizing bad solder joints, handling things with care and being methodical, etc. Although in the end I still managed to make a perfectly working machine dead

Thanks everyone for all the help so far. Here are updates.

maybe You have messed it up - BUT, maybe a broken-off wire has moved to the side as You have pulled a plug nearby. I once had a problem (driving me nuts): On one solder lug of the Extraball-Relay-Coil the wire has broken off - wires are stiff, the wire happened to stay in place (XB working) -> me nudging -> the broken-off wire moved a bit to the side (XB not working) -> me nudging -> it moved back (XB working) -> ->
So whenever You look at a coil or a switch: grab one wire after the other and pull a bit on the wire(s) ...

I have done a lot of looking around at all of the wire connections and solder joints everywhere, so far, everything looks good. That's not to say I haven't missed something so I will keep working on this.

Please have a look at the places you have unplugged "Jones Plugs" -> is a "broken-off" wire nearby ? Have you plugged-in the males into the females "the correct way" ? Old plugs CAN be plugged in with a off-set -> males go in-between the females (what we do not want).

I double-checked all of those. I also took pictures of them all before I started, so I know I have returned them all to their original positions.

Whenever you work on the pin: UNPLUG the Line-Cord, DANGER: 120 VAC (and 50 VAC and 6 VAC) around, You do not want to touch ...
Look for the Credit-Relay and the Coin-Relay and the Reset-Relay. Take a wooden stick (INSULATION) and try "push onto the anchor-plate of these relays" - simulating "the coil gets current and activates the relay (anchor plate) - practice this movement.
Plug-in the Line-Cord and turn-on the pin. I want to go through the manual -> 1D: Front Door Credit Button Switch will energize the Credit-Relay -> -> Coin-Relay.
You are now the "Credit-Buton-Switch" -> with the wooden stick push onto the anchor-plate of the Credit-Relay -> ? What happens ? Please report. Greetings Rolf

Rolf, yes, I have been reading and studying the start-up procedure so many times I think I know it by heart . So just to confirm, after I turn on the power switch and then hit the left flipper switch, the lights come on and I can see that the only thing happening underneath is the Lock relay coming on and staying on. Putting in a coin or hitting the start button do nothing. If I manually activate either the Credit relay or the Coin relay, the trip motor takes off spinning, and won't stop until the power switch is shut off. The score motor never moves.

The score motor on this game is mounted almost dead center of the bottom board.

Exactly, you can see it in this picture, right in the middle. To the left of it is the trip bank.

front-cabinet-mounting-board-1-small.jpg

I might've just told you something that is not correct, but examine the labels on your trip bank and see if one matches the Game Over. I am guessing that the Game Over is another interlock and located elsewhere based on other Bally games of the time. But, I've been wrong before!

Yes, here is the trip bank. At the very top (or towards the back of the machine) that position is labeled Game Over. Would that be considered the Game Over relay? There isn't a solenoid or a relay there, just a stack of switches that is activated by the cam when it turns, so in my mind that would not be called a relay on the schematic, but it must be. Note as stated above when I manually activate the credit relay, the trip motor starts turning. There are blue sparks at the game over position every time it makes a rotation. I am not sure if this indiates something. I used a file to clean the switches in that position the best I could, hopefully without changing anything. So far I have been trying to avoid doing anything significant like bending switches so I don't introduce a problem onto a problem.

trip-bank-1-small.jpg

is it possible for you to post more of the schematic (including more of the coil list)?

Yes, I will work on this, I need some more time to get to the scanning etc.

#9 6 years ago

Hi xsvtoys
great, you work on PDF to show. Here a lot of "good stuff" -> http://rwatts.cdyn.com/Machines/download_area.html -> down to the third link "Introduction to Bally Flipper Games": http://rwatts.cdyn.com/download/intro%20to%20bally%20flipper%20games.pdf (everything is good) -> page-19 and -20 (of 51) -> Motorized Trip Relay Bank. (I think: Yes (?)) Does your Bon Voyage has such a Motorized Trip Relay Bank ? I learned about +/- 2 weeks ago - I have never seen such a MOTORIZED Relay Bank ("Normal" Relay Banks: I Know).
I had an look in ipdb -> Bally-1972-Fore has such a Motorized Bank - it is a 1-Player game - it is from 1972 (close enough ?) AND IPDB SHOWS A SCHEMA -> Please look (ipdb-schema-"Fore") ->

F-7 (E-7) the Score-Motor and the wiring to switches 5000-Point-Relay / 500-Point-Relay / Special-Relay / Reset-Relay / COIN-RELAY. Some other relays also can start the Score-Motor / keep the Score-Motor running. "BALLY-Fore" would start and keep running its Score-Motor when the Switch on COIN-RELAY is closed - What does YOUR schema shows for "Score-Motor running" ?

On F-9 (E-9) You can see "RESET MOTOR" (I believe Motor for to reset the Trip-Relay-Bank), wiring and the switches Reset-Trip-Relay / COIN-RELAY / a Score-Motor-Switch (?). What does Your schema shows (switches for) "Reset-Motor running" ?

I think, You do not know about the "Lock-Relay" - also about the "Left Flipper Button".

In the evening the operator walked from pin to pin and switched-off the pin (switch underneath the cabinet) -> lights of the pin go off -> immediately afterwards he switched-on that switch (again) - NOT touching another thing -> pin is still turned-off -> the next morning the operator walked from pin to pin and just hit the Left-Flipper-Button -> the Lights go on and the pin is ready for customers to play ...

The Lock-Relay is active (keeps on pulling) from the moment "Lights go on" -> the -> whole -> day -> somebody turns-off the main switch (underneath the cabinet) in the evening. It is nice, Your Lock-Relay starts pulling and keep-on pulling.
WE MUST look for: Coin-Relay should pull, (Start-Relay should pull), Score-Motor should start, Reset-Motor should stop. And for these questions You should look-up in Your schema and/or show us the interesting parts of the schema. Greetings Rolf

#10 6 years ago

Actually, I don't need the coil list to confirm since you confirmed for me!

Yes, the game over is a trip relay - there is not a latch relay since it is a trip and not an interlock.

The trip, while it appears that there is no coil, actually contains a coil under each switch bank (of one or two sets of switches mounted on the same plate), which pulls down an armature. The cam that you see is just a little thing that runs once a game and resets all the armatures to the latched position.

Identifying the parts is the first thing to do, then start working on the game logic. Examine the schematic for the coin relay - this is what should be moving once you put in a coin, and it should activate the reset circuitry.

If this is not happening, is the game stuck in tilt? Is Tilt displayed on the backglass? Most Bally games start in tilt mode until the first coin is dropped, and if something is wrong with their Tilt trip or anti-cheat relays, or coin/start relays, they will not start up fully.

Nomenclature is going to differ - the last non-bingo Bally EM I worked on was over a year ago, but the principal is the same.

Having a full copy of the schematic to review would help, but once you've identified everything in the game (and the differences between the schematic and game can be maddening, like the above Game Interlock and Game Re), you'll be able to start fixing it, especially if you are a methodical person.

My other advice is not to do any adjustments until you have determined the effects of doing so.

#11 6 years ago

Hi xsvtoys
some more questions:

Do you have replays on the Replay-Counter ?

Does Your Score-Motor has a "Score-Motor Service-Jack". In the schema "Bally-Fore" I do not see one, in Wms Fan-Tas-Tic -> http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=820 -> schema -> D-5 (D-5) there is such a service jack - I see one Male (plug) and I see two female (sockets). Look in your pin -> One side of the Score-Motor -> a short wire ending in a male-plug. Is it plugged into ONE female (socket) or are there TWO female (sockets) and You have plugged in the male-plug into the female-socket AND on the solder-lug of this female-socket there is NO WIRE SOLDERED ON ? -> Pull and plug-in into the other female-socket.

Look in schema Bally-Fore -> F-2: A Normally-Closed-Switch on Delay-Relay. Follow the wire -> do You get to Score-Motor ? If that N.C.Switch on Delay-Relay is "faulty-open": The Score-Motor will not run ... Greetings Rolf

#12 6 years ago

I think we'll all be of more help when we get a look at the schematic. Thanks for working on getting a scan.

My apologies for not realizing the Game Over was on the reset bank. I have to say I've never seen a reset bank with a motor before. Is that something common to Bally bingos, Nick, or just all Bally pins? I've worked on Gottlieb and Williams games with banks that reset with one big coil and then change individual relays with latch/trip operation, but not one that worked like a score motor with cams and switch stacks.

#13 6 years ago

Two quick answers:

I believe tilt is OK, see #4 in my original post. Tilt light is not lit, but if I activate a tilt it does come on. If I manually activate reset relay tilt light of goes off.

There are credits on the meter. I also tried setting credits to zero and doing a free play jumper mod, this was the same.

I will work on all of the rest and report back.

#14 6 years ago

JoeNewberry, yes, this was incredibly common on the bingos - the trip banks are large and require resetting big stacks of switches quickly. This is typically a vertical orientation on the bingos, and on the flipper games, is just laying flat. After the bingos became popular, Bally saved money by using the same mechanism. It is simple, rarely has a problem, and always resets every relay 100% Gottlieb and Williams games with a coil-driven reset for the trip will sometimes have performance problems over time. I've never had a reset problem on a Bally, actually.

For the score motors, the service jack was only a Williams thing. The score motor in a late Bally EM is almost a replica (in miniature) of the control unit for the bingos, as well - so that's two of the three major units in any bingo.

To the OP, I know you'll get it soon!

#15 6 years ago

Hi xsvtoys +
my beloved Gottlieb Far Out also has a Score-Motor Service-Jack. I do not own a Bally. Bally pins are very similar to Williams pins - at least the "newer" ones (Score Motor / Player-Unit + Ball-Count-Unit, logic in circuitry ...).
I do not remember where I read this statement: "Carefully checked and counterchecked "switches drawn in the schema" <-> "switches in the pin (reality)". Well, 2 switches were only in the schema - 1 switch was only in the pin."

Maybe a bit confusing -for not to have a (narrow) very, very long drawing (schema): Bally schemas have a U-Turn on the "50 VAC" side of circuitry. At first glance we have the impression (Bottom <-> Top): there are 3 sections.

Again, Delay-Relay: Bally has constructed a funny way for to solve the problem "A relay must start pulling -> pulling for a while -> stop (quit) pulling". Gottlieb uses "Capacitor and Resistor", Williams uses "Capacitor and Resistor and Transistor".
xsvtoys, have You replaced the bulb on the Delay-Relais (455 - a flashing bulb) by a regular 47-bulb ? Is Your Delay-Relay "always pulling" ? (It should not). The Delay-Relay is for a HEAVY TILT (Score Motor not running but "Motor-for-bank-reset" might run).
I would like to test with "Jumper-Cables". You can do it on Your own - or You can show me parts of the schema and then I write about "What to jumper". To work witch Jumper-Wires: You (we) MUST have a schema - and KNOW what You (we) are doing.

Instead of writing it (here) again - Please have a look: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-space-time-extra-ball-functionality -> my post-15 -> print out the PDF -> look near the transformer -> ALWAYS USE POINT-99 !!! NEVER USE POINT-4 !!! (You want to have the fuse (maybe to blow) in Your circuitry.) Want to test Your Coin-Relay ? -> Test "Jumper-Cable-A". Then -B, then -C, then -D ? Greetings Rolf

#16 6 years ago

Hi Rolf, thanks for all the help so far. I have downloaded all of the PDFs you linked and they are filled with good information. I am still wrestling with the schematic which of course is a very wide piece of paper. I hope to build something nice like that PDF schematic you linked. I also understand all you are saying about jumper wires and such. In fact, I have to order some jumper wires with alligator clips because I don't have them right now. So I will need some more time to work on the schematic and get back to the machine, since I have to do this in my "fun spare time" outside work hours.

Concerning the "heavy tilt" or the "slam tilt", I am pretty sure it is working correctly. From my prior testing, I can confirm that when I close any of the 3 slam tilt switches, that Delay relay turns on. The 455 lamp comes on also, then, after a short period of time the lamp goes off (because it is a blinker), then the Delay relay shuts off. I think this is normal behavior. I can go back and check it again.

#17 6 years ago

Those Bally reset banks with the motor and cam are cool to watch, until that plastic cam breaks. Then you're out of business.

The game relay should change states during reset. I think part of your issue starts there.

#18 6 years ago

Have you manually activated the coin switch? I have not consulted schematic but my Bally Night Rider had a similar issue. The coin switch was not working...broken connection....fixed that and it fired right up, but it took awhile to find.

#19 6 years ago

Photos of the schematic will work; a PDF is nice but not a necessity to help you get it going. Mainly I'd want to see the section related to the Credit button->Credit Unit->Game Over Relay circuit that usually gets things started on an EM and a picture of the reset bank on the schematic would be nice. Just so long as we can read the text it'll work.

That you have no score motor activity or any sign of action from putting in coins, manually stepping up the credit unit/setting it on free play, etc., makes me think the problem is something that should be a normally closed switch in that circuit isn't closed. A switch on the Game Over relay stack on the reset bank, a switch on the credit unit, the start button itself (both wires soldered to the start button switch okay, switch clean and making contact?), etc. That getting the reset bank to start up causes it to never actually complete its reset also hints at something not being in the right position, since I'd imagine there are switches on the stacks that act like 0 position switches on a score reel that say they're latched and the reset bank motor doesn't have to keep running on their account.

Is the Game Interlock Relay working okay? I can't quite tell how the switches are configured because I think some of what I'm seeing in the pictures are the shadows of the switches above. What I mean by working okay is that if you latch it and then trip it, do the switches change positions properly? Normally open switches should close, normally closed should open, and make/break switches should switch from one set closed to the other. It kind of looks like one switch might be misadjusted, but it may just be an optical illusion/shadow. From what I've been reading the "Game Interlock Relay" is tied into Game Over, on some Bally EMs at least.

#20 6 years ago

A few updates. I will check the coin switch again. JoeNewberry, the things you say make sense. But when you ask if the Game Interlock Relay is working OK, I am not sure how I can know that. The problem is, there is such a lack of action. Nothing does anything so I can't figure out what to do next or what to test. It would seem to me (but I might be wrong here) that if I manually trip the credit relay that would remove everything in the coin door (coin switch or start switch) and everything should start, but it doesn't. The trip motor starts, but the score motor never gets going at all. As I said, I can manually activate the Game Interlock Relay but it doesn't seem to do anything.

OK, since I am new to the whole pinball thing, can you explain the situation concerning electronic versions of schematics. I have seen uploaded schematics at ipdb for some machines. Presumably these are uploaded by hobbyists. Sometimes there are schematics uploaded in other areas. But there are no Bon Voyage schematics that I could find, so I ordered one (a copy) from PBR, which was fine with me. Now I have gone through the exercise of creating a good scan of that entire schematic (14"x53" full size). Now I can look at it on the computer, and I also have it as a PDF that I can print as multiple pages, which is great because now I can spew out printouts and take them out to the machine to look at and mark up. If I post that schematic here, that means it will be in the wild as an e-version. Is that considered OK? Anyway now that I am done with that schematic on the computer, I am going to really take a look at it in detail.

At any rate, here is a partial look at the schematic, the left side that contains the parts we have been talking about - coin relays, tilt, credit, etc.

Bon Voyage Schematic 1.jpg

Bon Voyage Schematic 2.jpg

#21 6 years ago

Let me try to clarify what I mean by "working." I mean are the switches on the relay working in a logical way. With the game off, and the relay in the tripped position, so not held in place by the latch, look at the switches on the relay. They should be in pairs of leaves or in groups of three leaves. Each pair should either be touching or not touching. The groups of three should have one set of switch leaves touching and one leaf close by, but not touching. Now, latch the relay. All the switch conditions should flip-flop. The closed switches should be open, the open switches should close, and the groups of three should change so that the middle switch leaf closes with the switch leaf that was previously open and break away from the leaf it had been touching. Trip the relay and they should all go back the way they were before. If you have a switch blade that doesn't touch anything whether the relay is tripped or latched, or one that stays closed in both positions, then that switch is misadjusted. That may not be the case here, like I said I can't tell for sure if I'm just seeing a shadow, but it's a good idea to understand that the switches are generally going to follow this rule. They're either going to be open, closed, or make/break (that's the group of three), and when the relay is activated they'll change to the opposite condition they start in. If they're not doing one of those three things, something isn't right about their adjustment.

Anyway, thanks for the schematic. In regards to your question, only the Gottlieb rights holders insist on flexing their copyright muscle. Personally, I think sharing documentation is only good for the community, even the parts sellers, as people tend to get games working and sink more substantial money into them when they have a manual and schematics as a sort of "freebie" enticement into the habit of pin collecting. That's just my opinion, of course. You paid for it and scanned it, so I'd say it's up to you to decide what you do with it.

I need to get to bed, but I'll have a look over the schematic in the morning and try to post back. I imagine Nick and Rolf will have their take on things, too. We'll get it going soon enough.

#22 6 years ago

Alright, maybe I'll go ahead and have a look. First, the Delay Relay should not be pulled in at start-up. I know you and Rolf were discussing it coming on when there was a slam tilt. That relay should be off in any other situation except a slam tilt or a kick off. There is a normally closed switch on it that basically provides all the grounding for all the sections of the coin up and start process, so if the delay is on none of it works. I think you've troubleshot that pretty well and it's probably not the issue, but just to be sure look at the Delay Relay and check the switch with the black-red and black wires coming to it. It should be closed when the relay is off and open when it's energized and pulled in (on).

So besides the Delay Relay, the chain of logic to getting things going seems to be this:

A make break switch at 1F on the score motor should be closed (probably is, I wouldn't tinker with the score motor until you absolutely have to), there is a normally closed switch on the Reset Relay that should be closed (has a black-white wire to it), the credit (start) button needs to be pressed, the Credit Unit Zero switch, which is open when there are no credits on the reel, should be closed, and finally either the Game Over Trip (the one on the Reset Bank?) or the Game Relay (Game Interlock Relay?) need to be closed. If all those things are closed it creates a path to the Credit Relay, which will then hold itself on. The Credit Relay activates the Coin Relay, which activates the Reset Relay, which essentially gets the game going.

What's weird is that it sounds like you weren't anywhere near any of these things when the problem started. Weren't you adjusting settings in the backbox? I'd triple check the credit unit, since that's the only thing that would have been close by that's relevant. Tug the wires, look for bad solder joints, make sure the free play switches you adjusted are the Credit Unit Zero switches (grey-yellow and white-orange wires to that set). Be absolutely sure the credit unit is really telling the game that it has credits on it. Is the credit light on, on the bottom left side of the apron?

It also looks like the Coin Relay may be holding the Reset Motor on. The Coin Relay holds itself on through a switch on its own stack and a normally open switch on the Game Relay (whichever one that is, the one on the Reset Bank or the interlock?). So if the Game Relay doesn't drop out, the Coin Relay stays energized and keeps running the Reset Motor forever.

#23 6 years ago

Joe, great writeup and I agree wholeheartedly, my general guideline 2 cents:
1) I always work my way back through the circuit from the coil. It helps you approach any problem systematically.
2) Doing so will start you at the game over trip, which is the most likely culprit beyond the delay relay (which is in circuit before the trip coil, so definitely check that first).

Be sure to tighten the switch stack on the trip before making adjustments. Also pay careful attention to how dirty the switch may be. Even if it appears to be making good contact the points could be fouled which will prevent adequate current flow. Especially important on Normally Closed switches.

Test after each adjustment.

#24 6 years ago

Definitely good advice to start from the coil and work back. Also, cleaning the switches and tightening the switch stacks is a definite must. Just because it looks like it's closed doesn't mean it actually is, either. I worked on a Williams Gridiron for two hours once, tracing everything from the backbox to score motor, only to find my problem was a single backbox switch that was somehow gapped by a micron and not really closed. If you want to be absolutely sure, use a multimeter and test for continuity between the solder lugs. That's how I found that one.

#25 6 years ago

Hi xsvtoys +
I use jumper-cables for the problem: XYZ-Relay should pull.
Another common problem is: ABC-Relay (Score-Motor / Motor of "Motorized-Relay-Bank" etc.) should NOT pull / run. Here I like to work with stripes of paper - I sneak-in a stripe of paper in-between the contacts of a switch -> "THIS ONE is securely open". I sneak-in between the "Contact-Points" (not just somewhere between the blades). I also have a look at the solder points of the blades. Has there a "piece of blank wire" fallen in-between ? Has some preowner have let fallen a screw-driver into the machine -> and the blades are bent and make "faulty-contact" ? Here: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#fuses -> scroll down to the third picture: a bent blade making a short on a lamp-socket.
Is there a solder splash ? -> http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#misc -> First picture ...

While waiting for the Jumper-Gator-Clips to come: Want to have a look at the problem "Motor of Reset-Bank keeps-on running" ? Your JPG-2: Transformer -> fuse -> Thick wire BLACK -> RESET-MOTOR -> Wire "G-B Green-Black (?)" -> Switch-on-Special-Relay and Switch on "B-E-Trip-Relay" OR Switch-on-Coin-Relay OR "Switch (on) Index Reset Motor". This switch is a "Self-Hold-Circuitry-Switch" (Once started -> the Motor shall complete a "Full-Turn" and at the end of its turn mechanically open that switch again).

At the time of "Start of a game": We do NOT need the Special-Relay -> lets eliminate the possible fault "Switch-on-Special-Relay--B-E-Trip-Relay is faulty-closed" -> sneak-in a stripe of paper in the "correct" switch on Special-Relay or (quick and dirty) sneak-in stripes of paper - into ALL switches on Special-Relay. Start a game -> Motor ?

If the motor is (still) running: LET THESE STRIPES OF PAPER in the switch(es) - maybe there are TWO faults in the circuitry -> have a look at the Coin-Relay and the Switch-on-Coin-Relay -> sneak-in stripe(s) of paper -> Start a game -> Motor ?

At the very-last: Have a look at the "Index-Wheel of Reset-Motor" - I doubt, this switch is bent "Faulty-always-closed (why should it ?). Please report.

Great, You made these JPGs. Greeting Rolf

#26 6 years ago

Hey OP, if you were to disclose your general location you might get some portable help.

#27 6 years ago

Thanks everyone. o-din, I will get some local help this weekend if it works out. Everyone gave me a lot of things to consider and try. Unfortunately, I have to "work" first, then "play" with the pinball. And other things, such as the wife, wonder about me spending too much time inside the EM. So this might take a while, because you have given me a lot to digest. But as I am going through this, I am learning more and more about how one of these works. It is cool stuff.

Meanwhile, check out this PDF if you like. Its a large file, hopefully it will attach here.

Bon_Voyage_Schematic.pdf

#28 6 years ago

Hi xsvtoys
we are / I am waiting to read more about your "Bon Voyage" (I like Spinning Targets / Messenger Balls / Kick-Out-Eject-Holes).

Please write a NEW TOPIC (and mark it as "solved"), title and text:
Bally 1974 Bon Voyage schema schematic
Hi there - I made a PDF of Bon Voyage schema / schematic. See https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-em-bon-voyage-wont-start (my post-27). Greetings, xsvtoys

When You write this new topic: When (in the future) some owner of "Bon Voyage" is looking for a schema (searching in pinside.com) - he will find the schema ...

Did You always "throw-in" Coins - or have You manually switched the "Second Coin Chute Switch" / "Third Coin Chute Switch" ? AND accidentally bent a switch ?
Look in the schema "Credit-Relay -> -> -> thick wire YELLOW (returning to the transformer). See the "Second Coin Chute Switch" / "Third Coin Chute Switch" ? If one or both is/are bent and "faulty-open" then there is no "closed circuitry" for the Credit-Relay-Coil.
I would be temptet to set a Jumper-Cable "Score-Motor-1F" <-> Transformer-LUG-YELLOW (to jumper these Coin-Chute-Switches).

To "clip-on" a Jumper-Cable: I unplug / pull-out the Line-Cord (120 VAC). I clip-on "where it is harder to get at" - here: Score-Motor-1F - carefully lead the Jumper-Cable into the open (the cable shall not hinder functionality of relays etc.). Then I plug-in the Line-Cord (120 VAC), turn on and start a game and then I tip the open end of the Jumper-Cable onto Transformer-LUG-YELLOW. Greetings Rolf

#29 6 years ago

Well here is a new update. I got some help from someone who has worked on EM before, and we spent 3 hours working on this. There are some interesting things we found and maybe some clues, but basically every thing is the same.

By getting it going into game mode manually, I can confirm that everything works as it should. The score motor runs, the trip relay motor runs, the scores reset, the ball count works, all of the scoring targets and rollovers work, they rack up the score correctly and ring the chimes. It all seems to work just as expected. There was just one small thing that is interesting - whenever the score motor would start, it would seem to stop just short of the proper index position. This would cause funny behavior when testing, due to some switches not being in the right position. Just a slight nudge to the score motor would cause it to fall into the correct position, and then everything would work.

Reviewing the problem. Upon powering up and activating the left flipper, the lights come on and the lock relay latches. Absolutely nothing else will happen whether coins are inserted of if the credit button is pressed with credits showing.

Here is the description of what should happen from the instructions:

Coin game:
If the coin should be rejected, move on-off master switch at the bottom right front corner of cabinet to "on" position, then coin game. The coin lock out device rejects all coins when power (master switch) is off.

1A. If the coin is inserted in the 1st (nickel) coin chute and the game is set for 1 play-5¢, it will energize the coin relay. If game is set for 1 play-10¢, the first coin-inserted will advance the 2 coin unit, then the second coin inserted will energize the coin relay thru the 2-coin unit switch.
(See 1st coin chute adjustment plug positions on game adjustment sheet).

1B. If the coin is inserted in the 2nd (dime) coin chute and the game is set for 1 play-10¢, it will energize the coin relay. If game is set for 2-plays-10¢, it will energize the 2nd coin chute relay and the 2nd coin chute relay will advance the credit unit (2 or more steps) thru the coin credit circuit. (See 2nd coin chute adjustment plug positions on game adjustments sheet. Also the 3rd coin chute adjustment plug for the number of credits.)

1C. If the coin is inserted in the 3rd (quarter) coin chute and the game is set for 2-3-4-5 or 6 plays-25¢, it will energize the 3rd coin chute relay and the 3rd coin chute relay will advance the credit unit 2-3-4-5-6 steps thru the coin credit circuit. (See 3rd coin chute adjustment plug positions on game adjustments sheet).

1D. When the credit unit has been advanced from the 2nd or 3rd coin chute, (as described in sections 1B and 1C) the front door credit button switch will energize the credit relay and then the credit relay
will energize coin relay.

2A. The coin relay, when energized by any of the ways described, (in sections 1A thru 1D) will stay energized thru its own hold in switch and normally closed #8 score motor switch.

2B. The coin relay will energize the lock relay which stays energized thru its own hold in switch and a normally closed switch on the delay relay.

2C. The coin relay will energize the reset relay which will stay energized thru its own switch until all drum unit zero switches are open and #8 score motor cam switch is open. The score reset relay will
pulse thru #2 score motor cam switch as long as the reset relay is energized. The score reset relay provides the pulses to advance the drum units until the individual drum unit reads zero. The reset
relay also operates the score motor.

2D. The coin relay thru a normally closed #I score motor cam switch will latch the game relay if the ball count unit is in index position or it will trip the game relay if the ball count unit is not in index position. If the game relay is tripped, it will lock in the coin relay and thru the combination of the two relays and the #2 score motor cam switch, they will reset the ball count unit to index position. With the ball count unit in zero position, the coin relay will latch the game relay when the score motor is back in index position. The coin relay is still locked in thru the #8 score motor cam switch. When the game relay is latched and the coin relay is energized, the ball count unit will advance twice for a 3-ball game thru #4 and #5 score motor cam switches or four steps for a 5-ball game thru #4 and # 9 score motor cam switches. (#5 score motor cam pulse is cancelled out by the #9 score motor cam switch).

Now I will attach 2 sections of the schematic that seem pertinent, # 1 and #2. I think #1 should provide some clues. If there are credits showing, then pressing the credit button should start a new game. The credit button has a red rectangle drawn around it. Pressing the credit button should energize the credit relay if the complete chain is proper. But it does nothing. Considering that, I have done the following:

- Confirmed that the credit button is working. It closes and shorts as expected.

- Confirmed the wiring from the credit button down to the plug. It is good.

- From the plug, one wire from the credit button goes over to the credit unit zero switch. This is labeled with a red 1. This checks out for continuity.

- We know the credit unit zero switch is open (as shown on the schematic) when it is in zero position. If there are any credits, it is closed. This operation checks out.

- Next I checked the wire from that switch to the game over trip relay, or red #2. When I looked closely at it at the game over trip relay, what did I see? The wire was just looped into the hole in the connector, WITH NO SOLDER! This was a moment of triumph! That HAD to be the problem! That is right smack in the middle of the circuit that needs to work to start the game! Well, first I pulled snugly on it so it was making good contact, and that did nothing. Then I went ahead and soldered it on there. Sadly, everything still was the same. This was a devastating blow, but not a knockout punch. I won't give up that easily!

- With that wire now soldered, I checked continuity all the way through wires 1 and 2, and that was good, which should verify the credit unit zero switch is working properly.

- Next I checked continuity from the game over trip relay to the credit relay, red #3. That was good.

- Next I checked red wire 4 from the credit button to the reset relay. That was good.

- That's as far as I got. I still need to figure out how the score motor switch 1F fits in, and also the coin chutes. The coin chutes appear to be functioning properly, but I haven't confirmed with the meter.

I have some jumper wires with alligator clips coming soon. Rolf I think I need to follow some of your ideas for using the jumpers when I get those, like cutting out those coin chute switches like you said. So that will be my next step unless anyone has some other ideas. It is just baffling as to why there is no action at all to get the game started.

Bon_Voyage_Schematic_startup_2.jpg

Bon_Voyage_Schematic_startup_1.jpg

#30 6 years ago

Your score motor index runout switch sounds misadjusted. This is usually the first stack closest to the motor, and the bottom switch on it. This would prevent proper indexing of the motor.

Having the motor think it is in the wrong state would cause coining problems as well.

Were it my game, I would begin by fixing that problem when you manually trick it into starting.

If that doesn't work, check your coin switch wiring. Perhaps try unplugging the coin door Jones plug and see if the game still starts and scores appropriately. That would at least narrow it down to the coin door (which is a common problem). The wire bundle gets caught over time in the hinge and a wire breaks inside the bundle. Continuity testing says everything is fine, but when the rubber meets the road, you've got nothing.

Hope that helps!

#31 6 years ago

Hi xsvtoys
I like: http://user.xmission.com/~daina/tips/pub/emTips.html and http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/ -> EM Games: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair
AND http://www.pinrepair.com/ -> 1930s to 1978 EM: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm (EVERYTHING).
Please read about "beeing romantic" here - (2c.): http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#coindoor -> after the third picture ...

How do You "Check Continuity" ? To get a secure (100%) correct result You MUST unsolder one side of "I want to test this wire / switch / connection" ! There are many wires in the pin - You might get a "faulty" result (there is connection) - but You actually have a"Connection around in the pin" giving You this faulty result.

Pull the Line-Cord (NO 110VAC available) ! Take out the 10-Ampere-Fuse (schema: D-2 / E-2), check for continuity in between the socket-holders (of the fuse) -> Your result ? Turn Your meter to "Check Resistance (Ohms)" and measure again (in between the sockets) -> Your result ?
Maybe your meter has a "marginal-value" built-in (some Ohms) - below that marginal-value the Continuity-Checker tells You: Continuity. And above that marginal-value it tells you: NO Continuity (?)

Look in your schema: Socket-of-10-Amp-Fuse -> wire -> through the Normally-Closed-Switch-on-Delay-Relay -> to and through the "Coin-Lockout-Coil" -> wire -> Closed-Switch-1C-on-Score-Motor -> thick wire YELLOW -> through the "windings of transformer" -> Socket-of-Fuse (the other socket). When measuring Ohms: You should get a result (maybe 50 Ohms / maybe 100 Ohms ?) You should not get the result 10000000000000 Ohms. So my question: Is the "marginal-value" in Your meter set for to check continuity in pinball-machines ?

nickrooster has written something very important: "Score-Motor Index-Runout-Switch". xsvtoys, in Your post-1 You wrote about "changing setting plugs" - I did my "thinking" assuming the Score-Motor is 100%-well-running - a pin with "Score-Motor NOT stopped in propper-position (at run-Out)" can cause all kind of "crazy behavior" ...

Of course I did not invent "Testing with Jumper-Cables" - I like that kind of testing. For to test with Jumper-Cables one NEEDS a schema - I very much like "having a schema" ... Greetings Rolf

#32 6 years ago

Hi xsvtoys
here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/using-schematics-and-8-foot-jumper-wires in my post-10 I show a JPG. For to "Check continuity" I use my manipulated "Green Flashlight" - two wires coming out - if I touch the bare ends: The Flashlight lights up (it does not lights-up when doing the Test "Fuse-Holder-sockets" (to much resistance in the "connection all the way around" for the bulb to light-up)). Some times I am rude to a pin - see text "U", "V", "W", "X"" - on a place "hard to get at": Most of the work I can do with ONE hand. After I have tested / repaired the pin: I connect "Male" and "Female" of these "Automotive Departement Car-Electric plugs" and let them in the pin for future use. Greetings Rolf

#33 6 years ago

Can someone explain the meaning of the digits that are inside small boxes connected to wires in the schematic? For example, I highlighted a bunch of them in yellow in this pic. Logically I would think they would correlate to the plug reference table on the upper right of the schematic, which shows a bunch of similar numbers that correspond to various plugs. But, the numbers in these yellow boxes don't equate to any of those in that table. There must be some sort of logical connection between these, but I can't figure out the system. I have looked at various tutorials about schematics but they focus on all of the other symbols and make no mention of these.

Bon-Voyage-Schematic-startup-1b.jpg

#34 6 years ago

Hi xsvtoys
Your schema (post-27) -> page-4 -> A26 and B26: Wire-Color-Code 93-2 = Gray-Yellow. 57-8 = White-Orange. 27-2 = Blue-Orange. 85-5 = Black-White. Greetings Rolf

#35 6 years ago

Thanks, well that makes sense, "sort of". It seems odd to to show a code for the wire colors and then list the wire colors right next to it. So the same information is shown twice. This seems redundant. OK, accepting that and moving along....

#36 6 years ago

Yep, that's odd as they only started doing that in the mid 70s. Before that it was just the code.

First digit = solid color
Second digit = tracer or dashed color. Zero indicates no tracer.
Third digit = the number of times that same color/tracer combo used in the schematic.

#37 6 years ago

As Rolf stated those numbers are the code for the wire color. The code is listed on your schematic. Report back if this is unclear.

Again check those coin chutes. On my Bally Night Rider I had the same or very similar issues as you are having. Your score motor MIGHT be an issue, but I put it lower on the "likely" list. Remember...this was a working game! You were changing a few settings with the plugs, and while it is possible the score motor became maladjusted, it is not particularly likely. However...the coin chute switches are much more likely. It is right in the area you were working and it would be likely to be broken or damaged with an accidental snag or bump. I suspect your problem is one of a bad/broken connection.

The coin chutes are in the start up circuit sequence. If they are open the game will not start ...even with credits on the credit reel!

Turn the game on and put the score motor in the "home" position so you know all switch position are correct. Jump the start button closed with an alligator clip. Put a few credits on the credit reel. If you happen to fix the problem you will now hear and see the game fire up.

Visually look at the coin switch activating "wire" that activates/closes the microswitch. (not sure of the official name.....the one that the coin trips when it falls through the slot) . Does it operate smoothly or is it mangled and not operating well?

Pull pack the little clear insulation and visually inspect all the solder joints on the coin chute switches. Are all the connections good? Wiggle them or flex them gently to check for a bad connection.

Report back with your findings.

Edit--As Rolf stated be wary of continuity readings of wires in an EM. There are many parallel circuits that may give you false reading. Jumper wires are often much more useful as you can jump the power from point to point and thus determine by process of elimination where the fault is.

#38 6 years ago

Hi xsvtoys
remarks on "Reading schematics": Below the "Plug Reference Table" see the text "Wires enclosed in ... Number-16 gauge ..." ? Nice to know (No-16-gauge) ?

On the schema "Bon Voyage" I DID NOT FIND THIS (following) TEXT (on Wms / Gtb schema it is): "The schema is drawn after a game has started for Player-1, the reset (Score-Wheels etc.) is done, the first ball lays in the "Launching Lane (ready for entering the playfield)" AND THE LINE-CORD IS PULLED !
That means: The Relays in the Relay-Bank are reset. Interlock-Relays are in a stable state. "Relays with a Self-Hold-Switch-for-to-stay-pulled" loose current (Line-Cord pulled) and return to "beeing in state INACTIVE". I tell You no lie -> look schema-C10 -> the "Self-Hold-Switch on Lock-Relay" is drawn OPEN. (Also schema-A2: the switches on Lock-Relay). Also schema-A4: The Switch on the Game-Over-Relay is in the state: "Game-Over-Light is off".
Sometimes I do see a switch drawn in the schema and I am a bit confused: "Drawn open" - should it be closed ??? -> I look in the pin and push onto the anchor-plate of that relay and watch the switch: When the switch wants to open: Does it securely open ? And vice versa. INTERLOCK-Relays are hard to understand.

A schema is NOT an "exploded view" - it is abstract / idealized / does not show "reality in the pin". It shows "a connection is in-between HERE and THERE", but the way it is connected in the pin might be a bit different.
Example Transformer -> 10-amp-fuse -> through switch-on-delay-relay -> wire "Black-Red" and then a short "stub to Lug-on-coil-of-2-Coin-Unit-step-Up-Solenoid". The wire "Black-Red" goes further -> a short "stub to Lug-on-coil-of-Coin-Relay". The wire "Black-Red" goes further -> "...2nd-Coin-Chute-Relay" -> "...3rd-Coin-Chute-Relay" -> > ->

In reality (in the pin): On a given lug: TWO wires "Black-Red" are soldered-on ( one coming to the lug and the other one goes further to the next Coil-on-relay ...
In reality MAYBE 2nd-Coin-Chute-Relay and 3rd-Coin-Chute-Relay and 2-Coin-Unit are mounted close together and MAYBE there is a wire "Black-Red" from "Switch-on-Delay-Relay" to the 3rd-Coin-Chute-Relay and from that lug there is a BLANK wire to the lug-on-Coil-of-2nd-Coin-Chute-Relay and the BLANK wire runs to (and ends there) "Step-Up-Coil-on-2-Coin-Unit".

You must "think into the schema": "Where in the Logic of game-play is the pin right now" ? For example: The schema is drawn "Ball-1 is ready to be launched" - YOU are studying "Ball-2 is in play and the ball makes 500 points and therefore the Score-Motor is running and "Switch-XYZ-on-Score-Motor-3 must be (tempory) closed" ... Greetings Rolf

#39 6 years ago

More updates are here. I have done a lot of work, but gotten nowhere as far as solving the problem. Hopefully when I get some alligator jumpers this week I can try some different angles on the troubleshooting.

I hit some relays to get it into game mode (don't remember exactly how I did that, should have written it down). Once there, I did a methodical test of the playfield. I had read that a bad switch could cause a similar problem. I tested every target. Everything worked except for one 10-point rebound switch. The blades of the switch were corroded, I cleaned those and that problem was solved. I tested all of the logic of the game, and every single thing worked as expected. I did turn up 5 burned out lamps on the playfield but presumably these don't affect anything. All of the "Bon Voyage" target and bonus actions work as expected, all the scoring works as expected, the ball counts works, etc. I even changed those option plugs around that I had been playing with. The 3-ball/5-ball option worked as expected (in the 5 ball option you have to light each letter in BON VOYAGE one at a time, in the 3 ball option you get double letters when you hit a target, like both A and G if you hit either A or G target; this is independent of whether the game is set for 5 balls or 3 balls, which is another plug). Then I let the game end as it normally would by dropping the ball into the outhole (simulated). and the scores tallied up, and the game ended as expected, with the Game Over light coming on. That puts me right back to the "dead zone", unable to start up a game.

The one problem still unsolved is the score motor homing. This one goes 180 degrees, so there are 2 spots for it to drop into on cam #1, and it is coming up just short. You can see this in these two pictures, in the first one you see where it is stopped short, and in the second one I have dropped it into position by giving it a nudge with my finger. If it stays up out of the proper index position, various funny things do happen for sure, for example some scoring switches don't work. Dropping it into position seems to make everything work.

score motor stopped short.jpg

score motor in index position.jpg

Turn the game on and put the score motor in the "home" position so you know all switch position are correct. Jump the start button closed with an alligator clip. Put a few credits on the credit reel. If you happen to fix the problem you will now hear and see the game fire up.

Yes, tried that, no luck there.

Your score motor index runout switch sounds misadjusted. This is usually the first stack closest to the motor, and the bottom switch on it. This would prevent proper indexing of the motor.

Having the motor think it is in the wrong state would cause coining problems as well.
Were it my game, I would begin by fixing that problem when you manually trick it into starting.

I agree with all that. I am at a loss as to how to get that scoring motor to home properly. Any hints based on the photos above would be appreciated. Also, here is the listing of the score motor switches from the manual, and it doesn't say anything about a motor index runout switch.

SCORE MOTOR SWITCHES

#1 Motor Cam Switches
#1 (break) opens circuit to credit button and runs motor.
#1 (break) opens circuit to coin lock out coil when motor runs.
#1 (break) slops scoring of 1000 point and B, O, N rollover when motor runs.
#1 (break) latches or trips game relay before motor runs.
#1 (break) opens outhole relay circuit while motor runs.
#1 (break) trips game over relay thru coin relay.
#2 Motor Cam Switches
#2 (make) pulses score reset relay.
#2 (make) supplies 5 counts for 500 point relay and spot relay.
#2 (make) when coin relay is energized, resets ball count unit.
#3 Motor Cam Switches
#3 (make) Scores 1000 bonus when "B" is tripped.
#3 (make) with #4 switch scores 2000 for hole relay-
#3 (make) energizes total play meter through coin relay switch.
#3 (break) bonus relay lock in.
#3 (make) steps credit unit on possible match at end of game.
#4 (Motor Can Switches
#4 (make) scores 1000 bonus when "O" and "Y" relays are tripped.
#4 (make) see motor switch #3.
#4 (make) with #9 motor switch scores 4000 points for hole relay.
#4 (make) thru the coin and game relays add the ball count unit.
#4 (make) trips game over relay at end of game.
#5 Motor Cam Switches
#5 (break) 2 count adjustment for coin chute relays-
#5 (make) scores 1000 bonus when "N" and "A" relays are tripped.
#5 (make) Resets ball count when outhole relay is energized.
#5 (make) Same as motor switch #4.
#6 Motor Cam Switches
#6 (break) 3 count adjustment for coin chute relays.
#6 (make) scores 1000 bonus when "V" and 'G" relays are tripped.
#7 Motor Cam Switches
#7 (break) 4 count adjustment for coin chute relays and credit relay lock in.
#7 (make) scores 1000 bonus when "O" and "E" are tripped.
#7 (make) energizes hold kickers.
#8 Motor Cam Switches
#8 (break) lock in for coin relay.
#8 (break) 5 count lock in adjustment for coin chute relays.
#8 (break) locks in reset relay until motor is near end of cycle.
#8 (break) locks in hole relay.
#8 (make) energizes outhole relay thru bonus relay.
#8 (make) depending on adjustment plug steps credit unit on special.
#8 (break) locks in ball index relay.
#9 Motor Cam Switches
#9 (make) scores 3000 points when 3000 point relay is energized.
#9 (make) scores 3000 points for hole relay.
#9 (make) see #4 score motor switch.
#9 (make) add ball count unit thru coin relay and balls per game.
#10 Motor Cam Switches
#10 (break) safety lock in for coin chute relays and 6 count adjustments.
#10 (break) 500 point and 3000 point relay lock in.
#10 (break) lock in for out hole relay.
#11 Motor Cam Switches
#11 (make) make available 6 counts through coin chute relays to credit unit.

Also:

If that doesn't work, check your coin switch wiring. Perhaps try unplugging the coin door Jones plug and see if the game still starts and scores appropriately. That would at least narrow it down to the coin door (which is a common problem). The wire bundle gets caught over time in the hinge and a wire breaks inside the bundle. Continuity testing says everything is fine, but when the rubber meets the road, you've got nothing.

Tried that also, no luck.

Looking at that list of what the score motor does, it does seem that there could be some issue in that area, as there are several places where connections to the coin chute relays, coin relay, etc, are listed. That score motor is pretty intimidating with all of those stacks of switches though. Not sure how to even approach it.

#40 6 years ago

You'll need to closely inspect that first (bottom) switch. Though it may appear closed, it may require adjustment and/or cleaning. That's my #1 suspect. Note that it also opens the circuit to the credit button.

Sounds likely!

#41 6 years ago

Hi xsvtoys
a switch on a relay or on the Score-Motor I sometimes jumper using a Screw-Driver ( I hold the plastic handle).
The JPG in Your post-33 -> below the "Red 4" -> the Make-and-Break-Switch on the Score-Motor (drawn as a Brake-and-Make-Switch): Manually turn the Score-Motor into "Home-Position". Look at Your Pictures (post-39): Bottom -> Up, I see SCM-1A, SCM-1B, SCM-1C, SCM-1D, SCM-1E and on top SCM-1F. Carefully clean / inspect these 3 blades. In Home-Position it should be: Top-Blade is free (no contact) AND 2nd and 3rd (top -> down) blades should have contact. CAREFULLY hold the Screw-Driver onto that switch - so 2nd and 3rd blade are connected (NO OTHER CONNECTION). Push the Replay-Button -> does the Credit-Relay start pulling - does the Score-Motor start running ? Immediately take away the Screw-Driver. Greetings Rolf

#42 6 years ago

I have found the problem. I just can't believe it after all this, but here it is. It turns out my actions in "playing around with the machine" had nothing to do with it whatsoever. Just a coincidence that it broke while I was doing that.

I made the discovery today, as a confluence of 3 things happened all at once.

Number 1: After going to sleep at night studying the schematic and dreaming about it for nights on end, I was becoming mighty suspicious of the area in this picture circled in green, where the 2 coin switches are. Mighty suspicious. Despite having looked around in there a number of times! (Get ready to slap me).

Bon Voyage Schematic startup 1 coin chutes.jpg

Number 2. My package of alligator jumpers arrived from Amazon today. It was my intent to take those suckers and start some "jumper troubleshooting", and I intended to attack that green area first. Turns out, I didn't have to!

Number 3. I was actually poking around and doing some searches about how the score motor wouldn't quite index. I stumbled across this link:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/3UtROPFcwKg

First I read this:

I had this captain fantastic running 100% for over 100 plays and I managed to goof it up in a matter of minutes. The EX ball lane light
stopped alternating lanes, so I cleaned the associated relay under the playfield. I close the game back up, now it won't do anything when I
push the start button. I can't even begin to see how I did this, naturally I'm probably making things worse.

The lock relay engages but that's all. Manually triggering coin, and reset relays just cause them to stay engaged and the score motor does
not turn. Normally once I power on the game the score motor "Homes" itself, but now it does nothing. Score motor does turn and releases
game over relay, and resets scores if I manually activate the outhole relay.

Oh boy, that is exactly the same situation I had. Then, scrolling down, was this:

FIXED! I found a yellow wire on the coin door credit switch was snapped. It was still inside the housing but I pulled on it and it came right out. I soldered it back onto the microswitch and then it fired right up.

I could not believe what I was reading. Somewhat slowly, feeling a bit of shock and disbelief, but knowing what I was in for, I walked into the garage, opened up the coin door, and looked at the first switch, which has 3 sets of wires going to it, one being YELLOW. I had looked at that switch 100 times before. But this time, I really looked. And, I could see that in fact, it was not connected. Here is a photo of it, even with this close-up photo, you can't really tell. But when I shined a light into it, I could see it.

credit switch yellow wire loose 1.jpg

With just a bit of work, I was able to bring it out of there.

credit switch yellow wire loose 2.jpg

Next step was to get that switch out of there so I could figure out what to do next. It wasn't easy to get at the mounting screws, but I remembered I had seen a picture where someone had bent the bracket back to access the switch, so I did that, and got the switch out:

credit switch yellow wire loose 4.jpg

You can see that the tab is broken off the switch. But, I can hold it together and throw the switch (not enough left on the switch to jumper it). Lo and behold, credits racked up. And, when I hit the credit button, everything started up.

Everything starts up and all works normally, except for the score motor is still not indexing. But, I think this also may be fixed once I fix this wire (I can't keep it connected while I play). I think it goes right over to that score motor #1 cam. I might be able to solder a wire onto what's left of the broken tab on the switch and then jumper to that to get it going. But now, I would like a new piece of advice about this switch. Before I ask:

THANK YOU again to everyone who helped me so far. I learned a lot as I tried to figure this out, and that is great.

I am not sure how this switch works, because it has 3 tabs and wire connections, as you can see from the picture above. The bottom one is NC, the middle one is NO, and the top one (the broken one) has no label. I don't want to mess anything up until I figure this out. I suppose one day I can get a new switch and put it in, but what I would like to do is bypass it entirely and just put it in free play. Any hints on how to do that with those 3 sets of wires?

(EDIT) I have hacked together a wire so I can make that connection, and indeed now the score motor indexes properly and everything works as expected. Here is another pic of the switch showing what it is. I haven't been able to turn up an exact replacement on the internet, but I am guessing if I contact PBR they will get me something to replace it?

coin switch 268-0200-00.jpg

#43 6 years ago

Congrats! Pulling on the wires is a part of checking any switch that we all missed telling you, I think (without re-reading the whole thing).

The top one is common.

You cannot make this game free play by bypassing the coin switch - you can, of course, tape off the wire without reconnecting it - it is grounding in the area beside the switch causing the problem.

To put a machine in free play, investigate that coin circuit again (ignore the coin switches). You'll notice that the credit unit has a zero switch. This has to be closed to allow for free play. I prefer this kind of modification as it is easily reversible. Take an alligator clip and clip across the solder tabs on that switch - instant free play! Just make sure that it (the clip) is shielded from any other metal parts, and especially any other switch tabs. I've worked on a bunch of EMs that have had weird or over-complicated coin door hacks. The alligator clip can be easily removed if desired!

#44 6 years ago

)) Glad you got it running! Great feeling isn't it. This is what I was trying you to have you look at in posts 18 and 37 as it is the exact problem I had! As you found these bad connections can be very difficult or impossible to see. Jumping the start button, putting credits on the credit wheel and wiggling a suspected connection helps to find them as the game will start immediately. (assuming no other issues..)

As far as the switch...this is the ground wire. You can shave a little of the plastic casing away with a utility knife or dremel in order to get enough to solder to. It does need to be connected for the game to operate. Solder it up and put the screws back in and you are done. I doubt there is an issue with the score motor.

As far as free play go back to the credit wheel and close the credit switch with an alligator clip or bend it closed. It is a NO switch. I can get you a photo if needed or there is one on pinrepair.com as well. No need to bypass this particular switch.

Again I know the feeling of relief and exicetiment when a problem is solved....congrats!

#45 6 years ago

Nick, that yellow wire definitely has to be connected to that switch for everything to work right. I have to figure out how I could bypass that, or get a new switch. Right now I have it all hanging together with a soldered-on wire (where the tab is broken) and a jumper. It works, but I should make a good fix.

#46 6 years ago

Maybe I am blocked

#47 6 years ago

Smallskid is right, you can just cut away until you can solder in. Have had to do that in the past temporarily.

Bypassing this switch, if you didn't want to do that repair, would mean taking the NC and tying it to the common. Don't do that if you can avoid it though.

#48 6 years ago

smailskid - thanks, got the credits set to zero and the zero switch jumpered - free play all the way now, just hit the credit button and play. I have the broken switch in a temporary fix until I can work on it as you said. Will post pics when I get to that.

#49 6 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi xsvtoys
we are / I am waiting to read more about your "Bon Voyage" (I like Spinning Targets / Messenger Balls / Kick-Out-Eject-Holes).
Please write a NEW TOPIC (and mark it as "solved"), title and text:
Bally 1974 Bon Voyage schema schematic
Hi there - I made a PDF of Bon Voyage schema / schematic. See https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-em-bon-voyage-wont-start (my post-27). Greetings, xsvtoys
When You write this new topic: When (in the future) some owner of "Bon Voyage" is looking for a schema (searching in pinside.com) - he will find the schema ...
Did You always "throw-in" Coins - or have You manually switched the "Second Coin Chute Switch" / "Third Coin Chute Switch" ? AND accidentally bent a switch ?
Look in the schema "Credit-Relay -> -> -> thick wire YELLOW (returning to the transformer). See the "Second Coin Chute Switch" / "Third Coin Chute Switch" ? If one or both is/are bent and "faulty-open" then there is no "closed circuitry" for the Credit-Relay-Coil.
I would be temptet to set a Jumper-Cable "Score-Motor-1F" <-> Transformer-LUG-YELLOW (to jumper these Coin-Chute-Switches).
To "clip-on" a Jumper-Cable: I unplug / pull-out the Line-Cord (120 VAC). I clip-on "where it is harder to get at" - here: Score-Motor-1F - carefully lead the Jumper-Cable into the open (the cable shall not hinder functionality of relays etc.). Then I plug-in the Line-Cord (120 VAC), turn on and start a game and then I tip the open end of the Jumper-Cable onto Transformer-LUG-YELLOW. Greetings Rolf

Rolf, I will get to that post as you recommended with the schematic. I have some other good stuff for any Bon Voyage owners out there. Thanks for all your help, I read every document and link you posted and learned a lot. In another post you talked about the "condition" of the schematic, or "state". Now that I have made the entire machine work through a game, then end with the last ball and go into game over mode, I am going to take pictures of all those relays. Then, turn off the power and see what changes and take pictures of those. Eventually I should then be able to decipher what the state of the machine is as far as the schematic.

#50 6 years ago
Quoted from smailskid:

Maybe I am blocked

No, now that I went back and read it, yes, you did post the exact solution! AAAGGH. I read it, but it didn't sink in. I just didn't focus enough on what you said, otherwise I would have figured it out a lot sooner. I just can't believe that I did that. So you nailed it for sure, and I am to blame for not getting it. In post 37 you laid it right out for me. I think that I just didn't pick up on that post as I was distracted with all of the other poking around I was doing. Yes, I did go to that area several times, and I "looked" at it, but I should have done what you said and got in there and really checked it, and I would have found it. One thing - you really have to bend that bracket that covers it out of the way to truly get a good look in there, as those connections go up underneath there. One lesson learned.

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