(Topic ID: 243603)

Bally El Toro Startup Issue

By jungle_lord

3 years ago


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  • 16 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by jungle_lord
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Bally El Toro Schematic.pdf (PDF preview)

#1 3 years ago

Hello everyone.

When my El Toro resets, the startup sequence seems gets to the point of kicking the ball out and nothing happens. The scores all reset to zero, the ball count unit disc advances and ball "1" is lit, the score motor stops as it should, but the ball is not kicked out and I can't score anything manually. I can advance the ball count unit disc manually and it lights up 1 through five, but does not light up "game over." Then, if I press the start button it will go through the startup sequence again, and the same thing happens.

Any thoughts?

#3 3 years ago

Sorry, I don't. And can't seem to find one.

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from jungle_lord:

When my El Toro resets, the startup sequence seems gets to the point of kicking the ball out and nothing happens

Have you checked the Outhole switch? If that's not closing properly it might explain why the game isn't detecting or kicking the ball.

/Mark

#5 3 years ago

The "play" and "scoring" circuits must be open and not closing for some reason. I'm thinking there might be an issue with the "game over" trip relay because when I manually walk it through all five balls the "match" and "game over" lights don't light. I'm at heading to work now, but will check that later.

#6 3 years ago

Thanks Mark. Yep, the outhole switch checks out good.

#7 3 years ago

A common problem on Ballys with the not kicking out the ball is a score motor switch, or two.

PBR for a schematic ...

2 weeks later
#8 3 years ago

Are you still working on this problem? Unfortunately there is no schematic at ipdb so it is best if you get one from PBR. If you can scan it this will really help. But I might be able to help using my similar vintage Bally as a reference.

The interesting part is how you can’t manually score anything after the startup is done. How about this: what if you turn off the machine, then take the ball from the outhole and place it in the shooter lane, then turn the machine on and start a game? This simulates the situation where the game has been shut off while in the middle of a game with the ball unlaunched. It should be able to start up and be live, that is, you should get scoring when you launch the ball (or manually).

1 week later
#9 3 years ago

Thanks currieddog. I tried turning off the machine, putting the ball in the shooter lane and turning the machine back on. No changes. Everything seems to work as it should except the playfield switches are dead (general illumination is on). I can make the scoring work by manipulating the relays in the backbox. The coin door switches both work and add credits. The start button on the door works fine. The slam switch is adjusted correctly (normally closed) and works as it should. Again, is I manipulate the scoring and ball index through the backbox steppers, but when I go past ball 5 nothing happens - no "game over" lights, and I can't restart the game unless I drop a dime through the first coin slot.

This is really puzzling and I bet it's something very simple that I'm overlooking.

Brad

#10 3 years ago

How far does it get in the Game Operation sequence?
https://www.ipdb.org/files/772/Bally_1972_El_Toro_Installation_and_General_Game_Operation_Instructions.pdf

For any more than that, I'll need to see a high quality scan of the schematic from (for example) Staples ($2) or Kinkos ($6)

#11 3 years ago

It seems like it might have something to do with the game over relay setup. A schematic is still needed to check this out. I have 2 Ballys of similar vintage but the game over relay arrangement is totally different between the two.

2 months later
#12 2 years ago

Hi all! I finally got a hold of a Bally El Toro schematic and had it scanned. Definitely would appreciate any help I can get on this issue.

During the startup sequence it gets as far as 3A. - "Ball on out hole switch will energize the out hole relay thru (normally closed) #1 score motor switch, and it will stay energized thru it's own hold-in switch and (normally closed) #8 score motor switch." However, the out hole relay does not energize.

If I manually move the out hole switch the 3B sequence will perform correctly - "Out hole relay will operate the score motor and then energize the out hole kicker solenoid thru (normally open) #7 score motor switch. All general illumination is working, but nothing scores, the bumpers and slingshots do not operate, and a ball on the out hole switch does nothing.

All coin chutes work correctly, as do all tilt and slam switches. I did notice that tilting causes the tilt relay to trip, but not the game over relay.

I'm hoping someone can help me through this one. Thanks!

Brad

Bally El Toro Schematic.pdf
#13 2 years ago

I should add that the flippers are not energized either.

#14 2 years ago

The two circuits to the outhole relay coil have only four switches:

#1 circuit:
Score motor 1B switch - yellow wire and red/black wire
Outhole switch - red/black wire and white/brown wire

#2 circuit
Score motor 8A switch - yellow wire and black/white wire
Outhole relay switch - black/white wire and white/brown wire

That #1 circuit would send power to the outhole relay coil first. Since score motor 1B switch is normally closed, power would be sent to the outhole relay coil when the outhole switch closes.

If there is no power to the yellow wire at the 1B switch, then check the following:

Reset relay switch - red wire and yellow/black wire
Game over trip relay switch - yellow/black wire and black wire
10 amp fuse - black wire and red/white wire

Make sure all the switches are clean and adjusted properly...

#15 2 years ago

Thanks fredsmythson. I'll check these and post an update.

Brad

1 week later
#16 2 years ago

Well I finally got time to check out your suggestions, fredsmythson, and I found that the Game Over trip relay switch had an issue. The bottom slot in the plastic actuator had broken such that when it tripped, that bottom switch did not change state. I believe this caused the switch to overheat and the contacts would not make properly. When I made sure this bottom switch actually connected, everything worked fine. I have ordered a new 7-position actuator and hopefully this will fix the problem.

My only concern is that the old actuator looks like it might have become hot and possibly melted or weakened prior to breaking. If this is the case, there might be an underlying issue needing attention.

Thanks again. I'll post again on this issue if the new actuator does not solve the problem.

Brad

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