(Topic ID: 39616)

Bally "Dogies" repair help

By textrivers

11 years ago


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#1 11 years ago

Hello all! In November I bought my first machine, a Bally "Dogies," and I've been fixing it up little by little since then. When I got it, the score motor ran constantly but nothing else happened. I've fixed a million little things and got it playing really well (thanks to pinrepair.com and tips I picked up from this forum), but it still has a few issues that I could use your help with:

1) During games, the machine power occasionally cuts off completely. This happens maybe one game in 20 or 30. I'm guessing that the hold relay is just letting go if something else in the game draws a lot of current, but I haven't been able to connect this to any specific in-game occurrence. Very frustrating! Do I just replace that coil (which looks pretty crispy) or is this a symptom of some other identifiable problem?

2) This game has a "cactus juice score" feature, which increments by a single digit when certain skill shots are made. Currently, the player 4 cactus juice score does not reset at the beginning of a new game, and this causes the score motor to run continuously. The player 4 cactus juice score solenoid is operated by Reset Relay #3 in the backbox. Looking at Reset Relay #3, there's one incredibly obvious loose wire hanging out right next to it, begging to be soldered back in place. But, the only switch with an empty lug actually has TWO empty lugs. No other loose wires are visible. One wire and two lugs, and I have zero idea what to do. The schematic (which is in German!!) hasn't helped me in this case, but maybe someone has an idea...? I can provide photos from the backbox. Schematic is attached to this post.

3) Regarding the match feature and knocker: I don't understand how the match feature is supposed to work. The 0-9 unit seems to work fine. But if the 1's digit of the score matches the match number at Game Over, isn't it supposed to increment the credit unit and send a pulse to the knocker? I don't understand how the position of the 1's digit could be known, other than at 0 and 9 when the switches change. I occasionally see that the credit number has incremented, but I haven't yet heard the knocker. I've also tried to run up the cactus juice score manually (I'm not a great player) which is supposed to score a replay -- no luck so far.

4) Is this game supposed to have a second bell? There's a clapper (but no bell) on the bottom of the 0-9 unit, and my other machine (Bally Sea Ray) has a bell mounted there.

Thanks for any and all help!

#2 11 years ago

Just great the only schematic I can find is in German, so maybe a bit different.

Your power problem. First if you loose all power then check the line fuse holder and fuse, remember this is the same voltage as the mains so turn off the machine and unplug when checking.

The next thing to check is the “Betrugs schutz relais” remember my schematic is in German, the translation is “Fraud protection relay”. If you have this RE on your machine it will cause loss of ALL power. See Schematic below. It is likely called anti cheat RE.

Check all slam tilt switches, they are switches with a weight on them located in places like the door and under play field. Make sure they have good clearance, if you like stick a bit od card between the contacts to stop them from touching.

Help.jpgHelp.jpg

#3 11 years ago

Can you take a pic for Question two. You can upload here below the text box

#4 11 years ago

Q3

3) Regarding the match feature and knocker: I don't understand how the match feature is supposed to work.

If you look at the 0-9 score reel you will see it too has a disk that looks like the 0-9 unit stepper. So the machine does know what number is showing. If the is a match it increments the credit stepper unit.

Help.jpgHelp.jpg

#5 11 years ago

Q4

Quoted from textrivers:Is this game supposed to have a second bell?

http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=696&picno=18264&zoom=1
look for your self here

#6 11 years ago

Chrisbee, thanks so much for all your helpful answers!
Q1 -- Yes, that's the schematic I have. The line fuse and fuse holder are fine (although being a Bally, the fuse holder could stand to be replaced). The slam tilt switches are all fine -- it is possible to slam tilt the machine but that's a different matter. The machine does have an Anti-Cheat Relay, which looks about as crispy as the hold relay. Should I just replace it?
Q2 -- picture forthcoming. Unfortunately I'm out of town today, but maybe tomorrow?
Q3 -- Thanks for the explanation! That makes perfect sense. I manually set it for a match, and got nothing -- no credit wheel increment, and no knocker. Any idea of where the knocker is on the schematic? What's knocker in German?
Q4 -- I saw that picture before. Not only does that game not have a 0-9 bell, it doesn't have a bell at all! (Although it does have the spray-paint marks for the bell bracket in the upper left, and the female jones plugs to change the frequency of the bell sound.) So, I guess it's a data point, but I'm hoping somebody can elucidate further.

#7 11 years ago
Quoted from textrivers:

What's knocker in German?

http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=mT <<<<<This should help ya with the language barrier. Klopfer=Knocker

#8 11 years ago

Konvertieren Englisch auf Deutsch sollte, dass und umgekehrt arbeiten. ^^^^^
Viel Glück.

#9 11 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Konvertieren Englisch auf Deutsch sollte, dass und umgekehrt arbeiten. ^^^^^
Viel Glück.

Convert English to German, should that work, and vice versa. ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Good luck.

Got it, war ich auf, um es

#10 11 years ago

Oder wenn er Deutsch kennt, brauchen er die translator nicht

Prost
--Jeff

#11 11 years ago

Any idea of where the knocker is on the schematic? What's knocker in German?

The knocker coil is energised via the credit unit EOS switch. Fortunately a lot of the basics are the same on all machines. I think this is it here....

Help.jpgHelp.jpg

#12 11 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

Oder wenn er Deutsch kennt, brauchen er die translator nicht

Ok das ist immer hart, arn't wir ein Haufen Klugscheißer. Vielen Dank, Herr Google

#13 11 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

Oder wenn er Deutsch kennt, brauchen er die translator nicht

Prost

Die Dogies Besitzer war nicht in der Lage, den schematischen es in Deutsch von der IPDB Website ist so geschrieben, dachte, dies würde das Ticket zu übersetzen.

Hey w2w Sie glaube, die Leute würden Schütteln den Kopf, wenn wir Entsendung wie diese einmal in eine Weile begonnen.
Wtihout zeigt ihnen diese Übersetzer.

#14 11 years ago

Hope Robin gets a giggle out of our poor effort here.

#15 11 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

Ok das ist immer hart, arn't wir ein Haufen Klugscheißer. Vielen Dank, Herr Google

#16 11 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

Hope Robin gets a giggle out of our poor effort here.

It is funny though.^^

#17 11 years ago

Mientras todos estamos divirtiendo

Bugger now i'm speaking Spanish!!!!!!!!!

#18 11 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

Mientras todos estamos divirtiendo

Traditional Chinese

這是更好的破譯,這個幸運餅乾!
以先生宮城

#19 11 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

I think this is it here....

I have also noticed that the wire numbering is the much the same too, this could help us here.
Wire 27-7 is the knocker on other Bally schematics.

Also i just remembered that in the rules of Pinside, you must use English. Hoffe, dass wir nicht bekommen, band

#20 11 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

這是更好的破譯,這個幸運餅乾!
以先生宮城

what was that about fortune cookies????

#21 11 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

what was that about fortune cookies????

In the States after a meal at a Chinese restaurant you get fortune cookies and they translate Chinese lettered proverbs to english on the little papers they put inside them.

#23 11 years ago

I think this bit is funny!!!!

"Fortune cookies are often served as a dessert in Chinese restaurants in the United States and some other countries, but are absent in China. "

#24 11 years ago

Hey Textrivers, I will do my best to use english here. No offense guys, but I guess I am the only monolingual person here. I'll answer Number 4 for now. Yes it should have a bell. In a search for the missing match unit bell for my Bally On Beam, I learned this......

Those bells are super hard to find. There is a threaded stud at the top of this bell and it is a bit smaller than a standard 3" bell. Operators would often remove these bells due to complaints from the business owners where the pinball machines lived. That bell is on the one point match unit and is super loud and constant! It is also easy to remove. Just reach in and twist the bell and unthread it. No tools were required. From what I have learned, it seems that these bells were simply discarded. Good luck finding an exact replacement. If you do, please let me know where. I would like to put the correct part in mine too. Right now I have retrofit a gottlieb 3" bell. It did not fit properly and I had to "work with it" a little.

#25 11 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

I think this bit is funny!!!!
"Fortune cookies are often served as a dessert in Chinese restaurants in the United States and some other countries, but are absent in China. "

Figures ,they probably ban them there.

#26 11 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

Right now I have retrofit a gottlieb 3" bell. It did not fit properly and I had to "work with it" a little.

So is it installed ,how does it sound?

#27 11 years ago

Night all, midnight for me!!

#28 11 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

So is it installed ,how does it sound?

Don't know how it sounds. Head is still on the floor. Playfield is still stripped. Waiting for tumbler media so I can polish up the screws and small playfield hardware before reassembly. Should get the tumbler media tomorrow and then start reassembly this weekend.

#29 11 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

Don't know how it sounds. Head is still on the floor. Playfield is still stripped. Waiting for tumbler media so I can polish up the screws and small playfield hardware before reassembly. Should get the tumbler media tomorrow and then start reassembly this weekend.

Ugh... Sounds like work. I just got my Capt. Card going. Still needs a bit of cleaning though. The "fun" never ends, does it?

#30 11 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

In the States after a meal at a Chinese restaurant you get fortune cookies and they translate Chinese lettered proverbs to english on the little papers they put inside them.

Don't forget the "lucky" numbers they give you as well... Although I guess you can count yourself lucky if you don't end up with stomach pains and bowl time after eating the rest of the greasy offerings....

#31 11 years ago
Quoted from Pin-it:

Figures ,they probably ban them there.

Mainly a product made in the USA and China will have none of that.

#32 11 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

China will have none of that.

Yep ,no freedom for the Chicoms.

#33 11 years ago

Hey everyone -- sorry to disappear for a bit. Thanks for polylingual answers -- it's a regular tower of Babel in here!

So I think this is where we stand for those keeping score at home:

Q1 -- answered? I'll inspect the Anti-Cheat relay, wires etc, but it's crispy, like I said. If there's nothing else obviously wrong but the problem persists, I'll just replace it (and maybe the Hold relay too).
Q2 -- I'll take a picture tonight & post here.
Q3 -- answered -- I'll have to inspect & troubleshoot the match unit/credit unit/knocker pathways.
Q4 -- answered -- Thanks very much, Pafasa! By the way, are the two bells supposed to ring two different tones (like the tones of chime bars in other machines)? The 10s/100s bell in Dogies and the 1s bell in my Sea Ray ring at almost the same tone....

#34 11 years ago

Mais uma coisa -- o português é minha lingua preferida, se não inglês... e o Google ajuda sim, no entanto as traduções dele são cheio de erros!

#35 11 years ago
Quoted from textrivers:

Q4 -- answered -- Thanks very much, Pafasa! By the way, are the two bells supposed to ring two different tones (like the tones of chime bars in other machines)? The 10s/100s bell in Dogies and the 1s bell in my Sea Ray ring at almost the same tone....

I would expect them to ring two different tones. I havent checked mine yet. I'll smack each of them while I'm at lunch today (head is still on the floor). Hope the gottlieb bell sounds different from the Bally bell that was still in the machine when I got it. We shall see.....I mean hear!!!

Quoted from textrivers:

Mais uma coisa -- o português é minha lingua preferida, se não inglês... e o Google ajuda sim, no entanto as traduções dele são cheio de erros!

Again, I speak only English. If I were to speak another language it would be English. I've got too much other stuff to learn. I have German friends and I sometimes use Google Translate with their facebook posts. It rarely helps.

#36 11 years ago

Bells!!!

The larger bell mounted with its own solenoid rings lower "D flat" than the match unit mounted bell (Gottlieb replacement) "E" About one and a half steps on the scale apart from each other.

Downloaded a tuner app just to be able to say that. I'm a drummer, not a percussionist. I would have no idea if not for the app store and my iphone.

#37 11 years ago

Awesome -- thanks for the test and the specificity!

#38 11 years ago

Okay, here are the photos for Question 2. These show Reset Relay #3. The detached wire is clearly visible in all three, a gray/yellow below the relay. Two of the pictures also show the two empty lugs I mentioned. They're on one of the back row switches. The magenta arrow points at them.

I'm baffled. What am I missing here?

reset_relay_3_a.JPGreset_relay_3_a.JPG reset_relay_3_b.JPGreset_relay_3_b.JPG reset_relay_3_c.JPGreset_relay_3_c.JPG

#39 11 years ago

Is the loose wire yellow?
Ps not Portuguese too, i'm struggling with the German stuff!

#40 11 years ago

Yeah, the color's hard to tell from the photos. Once more, with feeling: the loose wire is a gray/yellow (93).

#41 11 years ago

Not sure but this could be a 93 wire, bit hard to read. Look at the #3 RESEST RE. find the make /break switch with Green/ yellow wire and Yellow/Red wire. See if there is a missing wire the Grey/yellow

Help.jpgHelp.jpg

#42 11 years ago

Question 2)
This may be the wrong way to go about it, but the way I see it you have three options for that loose wire. One tab, the other tab, or both tabs! Grab a test lead with alligator clips and trial and error it! The way I see it, the worst you can do is blow a fuse if something locks on and you don't release the alligator clip fast enough. My guess is that wire should be soldered to both tabs. Just my guess.

#43 11 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

Not sure but this could be a 93 wire, bit hard to read. Look at the #3 RESEST RE. find the make /break switch with Green/ yellow wire and Yellow/Red wire. See if there is a missing wire the Grey/yellow

Chrisbee, thanks for the guess! I think that's an 83 on the schematic -- it's a black/yellow wire attached to the make/break switch.

#44 11 years ago
Quoted from Pafasa:

the way I see it you have three options for that loose wire. One tab, the other tab, or both tabs!

Thanks Pafasa. I actually tried all three options before petitioning the good graces of y'all. Nothing happened, which in retrospect isn't all that surprising. None of the three options will actually complete a circuit if the switch is closed or interrupt one if it's open, right?

#45 11 years ago

Hoo boy! Question 2 is solved, sort of. Upon very close inspection, there was a mis-adjusted switch on Reset Relay #3, so the Player 4 Cactus Juice score wheel wasn't getting the signal from the score motor. It's at D35 on the schematic, for anyone interested.

The loose wire is still there. Still no idea where to reconnect it, but I'm content to wait for some incorrect game behavior.

Thanks for all the help, everyone !!

#46 11 years ago
Quoted from textrivers:

Chrisbee, thanks for the guess! I think that's an 83 on the schematic

I was wandering if it was 83 too, but i don't see a black wire on the RE in your pics.

#47 11 years ago

Looks like my original questions 1 and 3 are related! The machine loses power when the score gets high enough for a replay, or when there's a match on the match unit. The credit unit increments and then the machine immediately loses power! Manually closing the credit unit EOS switch during game play also causes the machine to lose power. No knocker sound.

So it's gotta be the knocker coil, right? Drawing just enough extra current that it causes the hold relay to let go? I'm going to disconnect the knocker jones plug and see if the results are the same.

#48 11 years ago

Yes, I've seen this behavior before on the pinball ninja site. I believe it was a Bally joust that had a shorted coil and it would knock power down to the point where the hold relay would let go. If you are not a member of the ninja blog, now is as good a time as any! The repair I'm thinking of is pretty recent. Within the last few months!

#49 11 years ago

Thanks, Pafasa. That's what it was -- it was the Anti-Cheat relay letting go, but same story otherwise. If I held it in, I got a sad buzz and a wisp of smoke out of the knocker. Time for a replacement, I guess!

Thanks again to everyone for all the help!

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