(Topic ID: 148496)

Bally display connectors wire/pin size?

By westofrome

8 years ago


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  • 18 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by G-P-E
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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#1 8 years ago

Checking out the Big Daddy connector kit to rebuild a connector on a flickering display on my HGOT. Noticed it came with both 18-20 and 22-26 .156 pins.

http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/repairkits/bally_kits.htm#b-dispconn1

Is this because some classic Ballys used different sized wires for the display connectors? Is there a simple way to determine which one I need to use?

#2 8 years ago
Quoted from westofrome:

Checking out the Big Daddy connector kit to rebuild a connector on a flickering display on my HGOT. Noticed it came with both 18-20 and 22-26 .156 pins.
http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/repairkits/bally_kits.htm#b-dispconn1
Is this because some classic Ballys used different sized wires for the display connectors? Is there a simple way to determine which one I need to use?

The lower the gauge number, the larger the diameter of the wire. So, an 18 awg wire will be thicker than a 22 awg wire.

18-20 means the pin will accommodate a wire gauge of 18, 19, or 20 awg. 22-26 means that the pin will accomidate wires between 22awg and 26 awg.

On Bally displays, data lines are typically thinner gauge wire (20 awg), and wires that supply power are thicker gauge (18 awg). Thicker gauge wire is used on lines that carry more amperage and voltage so that the wire doesn't overheat and burn up.

#3 8 years ago

Got it. So is it typically a matter of keeping a bunch of both .156 types on hand and physically testing if each wire is too wide for the smaller connectors when it comes to repinning displays?

#4 8 years ago

If you have digital calipers, you can measure the diameter of the wire and use a chart to get the gauge.

https://www.tedpella.com/company_html/wire-gauge-vs-dia.htm

As for the pins, they just generally have longer wings in order to accommodate crimping wires with a larger diameter.

But, once you start working with them often enough, you will be able to tell the difference between the different wire gauges.

#5 8 years ago
Quoted from westofrome:

Got it. So is it typically a matter of keeping a bunch of both .156 types on hand and physically testing if each wire is too wide for the smaller connectors when it comes to repinning displays?

I have worked as an electrician for all my life and have an easy time discerning wire sizes between 14-6 ga. but small sizes are harder. 20ga and 22ga look pretty similar. but you want to examine your crimps for good solid contact. This link provides a lengthy discussion on how to make a good crimp.

http://www.pinrepair.com/connect/

I am in the process of redoing the connectors on my Bally Skateball (1980) The connectors on my displays all look like a smaller gauge. 20 or 22? I'm not sure. I have terminal pins for both.

good2_(resized).pnggood2_(resized).png

#6 8 years ago

Would it make sense to use trifurcon .156's over standard for the displays? Put another way, is it *ever* advisable to use standard over trifurcon .156?

#7 8 years ago
Quoted from westofrome:

Would it make sense to use trifurcon .156's over standard for the displays? Put another way, is it *ever* advisable to use standard over trifurcon .156?

Yes. It's always a good idea to use .156 trifurcon over flat contact pins for .156 header pins. The trifurcon pins make better contact with header pins (they touch on three sides of the pin as opposed to one).

#8 8 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Yes. It's always a good idea to use .156 trifurcon over flat contact pins for .156 header pins. The trifurcon pins make better contact with header pins (they touch on three sides of the pin as opposed to one).

Got it. So using flat is simply a cost-saving measure? (Marco has both kinds at 17 cents; GPE has both of one AWG at 8 cents, the other AWG at 8 for flat/12 for tri, but mostly out of stock...)

#9 8 years ago
Quoted from westofrome:

Got it. So using flat is simply a cost-saving measure? (Marco has both kinds at 17 cents; GPE has both of one AWG at 8 cents, the other AWG at 8 for flat/12 for tri, but mostly out of stock...)

Cost and ease-of-assembly are usually the reasons, but I'm not sure for this particular case. I'm not even sure when trifurcon pins went into production, so date of availability might be a factor as well.

#10 8 years ago

Don't use Trifurcon if you want an easier time plugging/unplugging (ie. test equipment) .. and you sometimes have to watch what Molex housing you use them in because some housings will make it a SUPER TIGHT fit if you attempt to use Trifurcon in them. Been there, done that

#11 8 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

Don't use Trifurcon if you want an easier time plugging/unplugging (ie. test equipment) .. and you sometimes have to watch what Molex housing you use them in because some housings will make it a SUPER TIGHT fit if you attempt to use Trifurcon in them. Been there, done that

Are you talking about edge connectors, or is there a difference between standard molex .156 housings beyond that?

#12 8 years ago
Quoted from westofrome:

Are you talking about edge connectors, or is there a difference between standard molex .156 housings beyond that?

Yeah there's a polyester housing.. 41815 series instead of the 2145 series. You don't want the 41815 series if using Trifurcon. I accidentally used Trifurcon on someone else's tester because they listed the 41815 series connectors.. and I thought, hey these Trifurcon are better pins.. why not. After building out probably 15 harnesses I go to connect it to a Williams Sys11 board and you could *barely* squeeze them on the pins, with the board on a table and putting down a heck of a a lot of force. Then to get them off.. well, that was fun too.

So yeah.. don't make that mistake I've also made that mistake ordering a fairly large number of connectors for things I'm building. Gets costly quick when you realize you ordered the wrong part. Most electronic vendors seem to do returns on a per-case basis and charge a hefty restocking fee.

#13 8 years ago

Interesting! So if you're using trifurcons for a classic Bally rectifier board, for example, what housings should you use?

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/categories.asp?cat=37

Would love to hear Ed from GPE on this....

#14 8 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

Yeah there's a polyester housing.. 41815 series instead of the 2145 series. You don't want the 41815 series if using Trifurcon. I accidentally used Trifurcon on someone else's tester because they listed the 41815 series connectors.. and I thought, hey these Trifurcon are better pins.. why not. After building out probably 15 harnesses I go to connect it to a Williams Sys11 board and you could *barely* squeeze them on the pins, with the board on a table and putting down a heck of a a lot of force. Then to get them off.. well, that was fun too.
So yeah.. don't make that mistake I've also made that mistake ordering a fairly large number of connectors for things I'm building. Gets costly quick when you realize you ordered the wrong part. Most electronic vendors seem to do returns on a per-case basis and charge a hefty restocking fee.

Ed carries 41695 series, yet another number. Oh and the "value" line is a molex 2139 substitute. This is what frustrates me with ordering from Mouser or Digakey, too many choices and such a subtle, yet critical difference. I assume that those housings that Ed carries are right for the trifurcon pins?

#15 8 years ago
Quoted from Platypus:

Ed carries 41695 series, yet another number. Oh and the "value" line is a molex 2139 substitute. This is what frustrates me with ordering from Mouser or Digakey, too many choices and such a subtle, yet critical difference. I assume that those housings that Ed carries are right for the trifurcon pins?

Oops.. 41815 is actually the board to board. Well that's the ones I ordered that were a tight fit on Bally SDB's and had me thinking "OH JESUS CHRIST NOT AGAIN!" They were the same solid color looking connectors I mistakenly bought and used with Trifurcon pins in the past.

I think it was actually the 41695 series I had trouble with (as far as the regular connectors that you insert terminals into). I have part number 09-50-8091 in bags and they're the same connector housing as I remember. Smaller hole for the header pins, solid color. I think it was a Sys11 or Data East board, where they fit without any terminals in them, but even the 9pos ones -- with all the terminals in there, they fit *very snug* and were a total chore to get off the board. Not good for testing stuff. At the time (probably 5-6 years ago now) I drilled at the end of the connector a bit to open the holes. I *really* didn't feel like redoing all of those harnesses. Seemed to help enough. I think those small holes amplify the problem for sure.

#16 8 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

Oops..
I think it was actually the 41695 series I had trouble with (as far as the regular connectors that you insert terminals into). I have part number 09-50-8091 in bags and they're the same connector housing as I remember. Smaller hole for the header pins, solid color.

now you have me worried as I was about to place a bigger order. The ones I ordered from Pinball Life worked fine..... But they don't list the numbers.

#17 8 years ago

Here's a comparison of the header hole sizes on these parts (these are the on-board connectors I mentioned having ordered the wrong part for.. but same idea).

hole_sizes_(resized).jpghole_sizes_(resized).jpg

#18 8 years ago

41695 series plugs are the plugs that Molex actually recommends using the Trifurcon style contacts in as well as the high current 45570-3050 box style contacts.
The less expensive housings will work with Trifurcon but are actually sized for flat contacts.
I have never had problems with Trifurcon contacts in either style. Just remember to order the right key size (41695 uses 15-04-0297 and other plugs use 15-04-0219).

By far - the most popular contacts are 08-52-0072 (flat) and 08-52-0113 (trifurcon) - both are for 18-20AWG wire. And ... for some reason, both have become difficult to obtain. I have had a case of each style on order since end of November and they still won't give me an estimated due date.

Ed

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