It might be a switch on your game over relay.

Time to get over to Staples. I was guessing based on some other games.

With the number of issues you are having, you might try to clean the jones plugs.

Hi
using a mobile phone to make JPGs probably is O.K. --- see my (fake) examples - first and second JPG --- when a picture is slightly turned: Not a problem - we can use paint.net to turn. Important is: The whole (A B C D E F G H J) MUST BE IN the PICTURE - and the other direction: Please some overlapping.

Ron_S - what happens when You start a game and the Coin-RELAY pulls-in and YOU manually*** activate the Reset-Relay ? See third and fourth JPG --- Switches on Reset-Relay MUST close --- wear rubber gloves or use an wooden stick - manually*** actuate the Reset-Relay. Greetings Rolf

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Hi Ron_S
here is what happens in a Bally Four-Player-Pin when we press the Credit-Button: Along "my green wiring" the Credit-Relay is made pulling-in (by the way - it lets then the motor to run) - it actuates all its switches - so along "my light-blue wiring" the Credit-Relay establishes "Self-Hold-Current" closing its switch (encircled light-blue) and as the turning motor "not yet opens SCM-7F": Self-Hold-Circuitry is established.
At "my triple circle light-blue, dark-blue, red" - a kind of fork-off --- along "my dark-blue wiring" the Coin-Relay is made to pull-in (as "encircled dark-blue 'switch named Credit-Re.' " closes / is closed).
The pulling Coin-Relay establishes "Self-Hold-Current along 'my red wiring' " by closing its "switch encircled red".
By now both relays are pulling - the motor is turning - then
SCM-7F opens and the Credit-Relay quits pulling and so opens its "Self-Hold-Switch, encircled light-blue" --- the relay stays non-pulling.
SCM-8F opens and the Coin-Relay quits pulling and so opens its "Self-Hold-Switch, encircled dark-blue" --- the relay stays non-pulling.
(((Not of interest to us: Then the SCM-10A opens - but we are not doing "3rd Coin Chute stuff)))

On every relay in the pin we can "cheat a bit" - we wear rubber gloves or use an wooden stick (for insulation - Safety Reasons - there is 110VAC and 50VAC in the pin !!!) - we cheat by "manually push the armature of a relay - we imitate "coil gets current and so the relay starts pulling".
So for the problem "Pushing the Replay-Button to start a new game": We cheat a bit - we manually activate the Credit-Relay. So, what happens when You do this ? Greetings Rolf

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Ron,

I also have a Circus. I do not have a schematic, however by following your threads I have learnt a lot about the machine.

Rolf, You are a wealth of knowledge, thanks for sharing.

Thanks,

S

Hi Ron_S
An schematics has a list of relay and a list of coils (on steppers) - sometimes all in one list - sometimes two separated lists. The Game-Over-Relay very often is an so called "Interlock-Type relay" (((Yours is such))) - two coils mounted on the thing. Interlock-Type-Relays are listed as "Game-Over-Relay LATCH" and "Game-Over-Relay TRIP" - please look through the list(s) on "Circus" - how often do You see this form "whatever-name-of-the-Relay LATCH" - "whatever-name-of-the-Relay TRIP" ? Then You know how many Interlock-Type-Relays You have (please write about). I am 99% sure that the JPG in Your post-12 is the Game-Over-Relay - when You press the armature with the nylon-ladder mounted --- You then can play. When You press the armature /no nylon-ladder mounted: You see "Game-Over" lighted in the Backbox.

It would be very helpful if You can post the schematics --- bottom JPGs in my post-7 / JPG in post-9: O.K., nice - BUT Bally Champ --- I would like to see "Circus" - so I can show a snippet "Circus" and refer to "wire-colors (Circus)".
In a Bally-Champ - at the time the No-1-Score-Reset-Relay and the No-2-Score-Reset-Relays are actuated - at about the same time the Game-Over-Relay must LATCH (post-7, third JPG)
In a Bally-Champ - at the time the Coin-Unit resets and the Player-Unit resets: The Ball-Count-Unit must reset (post-7, fourth JPG).
Maybe You have some wire(s) broken-off from solder-lug(s) - when we know the switches and the colors of wires: We then use Jumper-Wires - make an "guaranteed connection" because we put an Jumper-Wire at the connection (an original wire should make).
In Switzerland (south of Germany) it is getting late - I go to sleep - till tomorrow, greetings Rolf

Not sure if this is helpful ... Rolf let me know.

I have some issues with the way my Circus starts a game (a credit starts the game, not the game start button on the door)

Other than that I think I have it running 100%

This is the above thing you are manual engaging

This is the position it is in when the game is running.

circus coin (1 of 1)-9 (resized).jpg

This is the same thing when the game is over.

game over (1 of 1) (resized).jpg

I know what can engage / disengage those coils. Are your relays labelled in the machine?

Once we have the schematic I can chase my wires and find any difference between mine and yours. As all three of us are in different places in the world i think this might take some time.

Cheers,

Steven

Hi Ron,

I would love a copy as I can use it to follow the fix on my Circus and send you photos of how mine is, for you to compare to yours as you chase the circuit. Let me know how to send you an email so we can organise access to the share drive. I do not have access to the Pinside PM service yet.

Are all your relay switches labelled?

cheers,

steven

Hi Ron_S
my JPG (part of Your JPG) shows the rea we need to see. Want to try to take a picture with Your "Mobile-Phone-Camera" --- they usually take pictures in JPG-format. Greetings Rolf

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Hi Ron_S
thanks for the picture --- on the bottom of the schematics are the numbers 7, 8, 9, ... 19, 20, 21, 22
this is "from left to right" what I need. What You show as top-down is good - so take two more pictures towards the RIGHT - with a bit of overlapping. Greetings Rolf

Hi Ron_S
I edited my post-21 --- correct is: To the RIGHT --- (two more pictures). Greetings Rolf

Hi Ron_S
thanks for the pictures. I will put together the pics so we have "all we need" in one JPG --- then I will draw some Jumper-Wirings into it - and show it here --- by now it is 22:00 time in Switzerland - it might be "time to go to sleep" before I have done all the stuff - maybe I do post by tomorrow (?). Greetings Rolf

Hi Ron_S
- the stuff with the schematics - it will definitely be "by tomorrow".
"Rolf" and "Rudi" and "Ruedi" (and maybe "Ralph") come from "Rudolph". "Rolf" is my first name - Martin is the "middle initial" and "062" is the area-code in Switzerland - ifever You want to do a "stationary phone call". Greetings Rolf

Hi Ron_S
thanks for the schematics --- I have put together and show it here - very small picture (data storage) - it is only to give an idea how we can put together snippets in MS-Paint.

In post-13 I was asking about "how many - whats the name of" INTERLOCK-Type Relays in Your pin (a list is in the schematics) - You did not tell.

Lets look at the problem "Ball in Play" is not resetting --- I assume it is the "Ball Count Unit Reset Solenoid" - see the (second) JPG --- the "Coin-Unit-Reset-Solenoid" should fire and the "Ball Count Unit Reset Solenoid" should fire at the same time.

Toggle-off the pin and unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons, 110VAC and 50VAC can kill us). The "Coin Unit" should be named "How many players want to participate in the next game - Unit" --- manually step it so it is not in an "end-position". Take a Jumper-Wire and clip-on at the Coil (Coin-Unit-RESET-Coil, C-28-1100 side wire-63-brown-yellow). The other end of the Jumper-Wire clip-on at the Coil (Ball Count Unit Reset Coil, C-28-1100 side wire-63-brown-yellow).
Then plug-in, toggle-on and start a game - what are these two coils doing ? Greetings Rolf

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Hi Ron_S
in the second JPG in post-28: My short "marked red" line should be marked at the Coil on the BALL-Count-Unit-Reser-Coil ...
Greetings Rolf

Hi Ron_S
The Coin-Unit lites up "how many players can play" - in the Backbox - here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=521&picno=488 - in the lower left corner - 1 can play or 2 or 3 or 4 can play. You have toggled-off the pin and the main power cord unplugged - try the Unit You believe to be the Coin-Unit --- manually do step --- the Step-up coil does single steps - the Coin-Unit Reset Coil makes the Unit to totally reset - wroamm - bang - ONE huge step all the way back. When You step on the step-up side You can step from "Position-Resetted is Position-for-One-Player-participating is also called Position-Zero" - You can step up from "Pos-Zero" to "Pos-1" - then step up to pos-2 then to pos-3 (and this is the position for four players participating). On the Unit You suspect to be the Coin-Unit --- can You do such steppings ? --- Set this Unit somewhere in a middle position --- then plug-in and toggle-on - question: Do You see on the Backglass "2 can play" or "3 can play" ?

Fine, You see on the Ball-Count-Unit-Reset-Coil the wire-brown-Yellow - see the JPG in post-28 - see the "Make-and-Brake-Switch (has three blades) on the Reset-Relay" (?) --- locate this switch and do the jumpering "this switch-the-blade-with-the-wire-brown-yellow" - permanent jumpering to "Ball-Count-Unit-RESET-Coil-side-with-wire-brown-yellow". See it in the JPG - such Jumperings do add a new*** wire to an existing wiring. And the new*** wire is garanteed good and lets (guaranteed) current to flow. Greetings Rolf

P.S. --- again it is late in Switzerland (30 minutes before midnight) I go to sleep - till tomorrow.

Hi Ron_S
here on the Two-Player Pin "Big Show" http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=275&picno=27478 - in the right lower corner, below the chimes I see the "Total Play Meter". Do You have an "Total Play Meter" in Your pin ? Look in the JPG in post-34 - You have encircled violet two switches --- on the "left switch" follow the wire-white-brown to Score-Motor-Switch-3B. There is a "fork-off" away - also wire-white-brown - a connection upwards to the "Total Play Meter". In the lower left corner is "Switch on Coin-Relay". At start-up the Coin-Relay pulls and keeps its switch closed - the motor runs and closes its switch - therefore the "Total Play Meter" steps up.
When You start a game (maybe, please by pressing the armature on the Coin-Relay) --- question: DOES Your "Total Play Meter" do a step ?

"Testing for continuity with a meter (DMM ?)": Some people like to "use meters to test for continuity" - I have one but I seldom use it. There are so many wirings in the pin - we may "have connection" - but through windings on coils - to the transformer - through windings on the transformer ...
To get a good, reliable result: We must UNSOLDER connecting wires - at least on one side of "what we want to check" --- I do not like unsoldering - well, especially I do not like to "solder-on afterwards". Please accept that I would like to look for the fault the way I do troubleshooting. Greetings Rolf

Hi Ron_S
I could write like "do test-1" - if the result is "test-1-YES" then "do test-A" - if the result is "test-1-NO" then do "test-B" - when doing test-1 and this QQ occurs then it is better to do test-C to check for KK ... a lot for me to write and most likely not easy to understand. So we take the time and do one (or two) postings a day.

SteveFury shows a handy Test-Light - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reading-gottlieb-schematics#post-2634425 - two car-bulbs of 12 Volt put one behind the other so 12 Volt plus 12 Volt gives a Test-Light for 24 Volt - a good tool for troubleshooting on Williams and Gottlieb Pins as they run the coils with 24VAC. YOUR pin is an Bally - they run on 48 to 50 Volts - You cannot use the SteveFury-Test-Light --- BUT You can use an "oldfashioned Edison-Type-Bulb Bedroom-Light of (lets say) 15 Watt, 20 Watt, 25 Watt, 40 Watt" --- The Bedroom-Light used for testing Your 50 Volt circuitry will shine-up enough so You see "current is flowing at this moment".
No good are bulbs of LED-Type - no good are bulbs of "Neon-Advertisement-Lamps Type" - no good are "Energy-Saving Bulbs". But when You have such an oldfashioned Edison-Type-Bulb Bedrom-Light: Good to have for testing - if You do not have such an Bedroom-Light: We do testing using simple Jumper-Wires. Greetings Rolf

Hi Ron_S
good - the Total Playmeter works - current flows "along my blue wiring" --- lets test if the Reset-Coil on the Ball-Count-Unit is good and fires when You set the permanent Jumper as shown here (my green Jumpering). Not only look if the Reset-Coil on the Ball-Count-Unit fires - also look if the Reset-Coil on the Coin-Unit fires (((in the pin is an original wiring between these two coils - I wonder if this original wiring is good))). Do not to try to start a TWO, three, four player-Game - do only start for a ONE-Player-Game. Greetings Rolf

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Hi Ron_S
great - some progress. The jumpering I suggested in post-40 (green curved line) is not a fix (as we have taken out of order the three-bladed (Make-and-Break) Switch on the Reset-Relay). Take-away the "green curved line" jumper --- establish permanent jumper as shown here "dark-blue curved line" ending at the middle blade on "threebladed Switch on Reset-Relay". Then try the starting of a new game --- IF (if, if) the Reset-Coil on Ball-Count-Unit fires: Good. If (if, if) NOT: Let the "darkblue jumpering" in the pin - as is --- take a second Jumper-Wire and establish also permanent "my rosa / pink Jumpering" - does it now works ? Greetings Rolf

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Hi Ron_S
Yes - a permanent Jumper (my dark-blue wiring in JPG, post-42). In the pin there should be a connecting wire there - maybe some breakage (?) When we have the schematics and we see "from here to there is a connection that has no switch in it": We take an Jumper-Wire and do the wiring a second time - this second wiring will guarantee the connection.

And the "my rosa / pink permanent Jumper (post-42, JPG)" has the same functionaltity --- a Jumper-Wire-connection connecting an "original wiring connection" - the Jumper-Wire connection will guarantee the connection.

Establish permanent the "dark-blue" - then try the pin --- if the pin does not want to be nice and pleasing: Then also do the "rosa / pink" - so You then have "dark-blue and rosa / pink" --- IF (if , if) still not working - conclusion: The three-bladed Switch on Reset-Relay is no good. Greetings Rolf

Hi Ron_S
lets take this "three-bladed (M&B) Switch on Reset-Relay" and look at possible faults ("Switch is bad" --- in our situation: We should have but do not get electricity flowing through).

- AAA The switch actually is good - fully operating --- BUT the relay does not pull-in at the time it should.
--- BBB (the relay does pull but) The moved armature on the relay and the mounted nylon-ladder and the switchblade hooked-in into the nylon-ladder do not move enough - the moved blade does not travel enough - it does not get into contact with the other participating blade.
- CCC (the relay does pull but) On one or both blades the contact-point is oxidated --- mechanically the blades get into contact - but the oxidation film on the contact-point on the blade hinders current to flow.
- DDD (the relay does pull but) On one or more solder-lugs the wire to the lug has broken-off.
- EEE (the relay does pull but) There are wires coming from "somewhere in the pin" to the solder-lugs on the participating blades on the switch --- ON THE OTHER END of the wire(s): THERE the wire has broken-off.

From Your post-45 I read: "Have set permanent jumper "my dark-blue" - and also have set permanent jumper "my rosa / pink". I assume You have set the jumpers on the right place - I also assume "The Reset-Relay DOES actuate (pull-in) when it should - so the "my AAA" cannot be the cause of the fault (fault: Reset-Coil on Ball-Count-Unit does not fire). We also can exclude "my DDD and my EEE" - You have set the two jumperings correct - these two jumperings clip-on at the correct places - clip-on good - we have "connecting wires ready for current to flow"

So maybe it is "my BBB" or "my CCC" --- toggle-off the pin, unplug the main power cord - manually actuate the Reset-Relay and look at the switch - DOES the middle blade move (when the relay is manually actuated) - does the blade travels and really push - bumps onto the other blade / outer- blade (You check for "my BBB").
In pinside I read many times about "flexstone" --- I use VERY fine sandpaper and clean both contact-points on the two blades (working on a "maybe CCC").

Maybe there is room enough for You to be at the switch --- with the two jumperings in the pin and the Reset-Relay actuating --- YOU make connection of the two blades using a screwdriver - the screwdriver has contact to both blades --- this screwdriver-test tells You about "Have I set the jumperings correct ?"
Greetings Rolf

I would say that it's a score motor sw.-common on Bally. Check 3B and 4B.

Sounds good. Make it easy for us to help you!