(Topic ID: 86882)

Bally Captain Fantastic - project


By ahdelarge

5 years ago



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  • 15 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by ahdelarge
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 5 years ago

Hi all,
I recently purchased a great Bally Captain Fantastic project in excellent condition, but the power cable had been cut. Just started to bring it back to life and wondering if anyone can give me some help and advice?

I installed a new EMI filter and new power cable. The game now powers up and the lights work. I installed new fuses, but some fuse holders will need replacing. The coin mechanism works and the credits increment behind the backglass. I press start button, but the ball does not kick out. Can someone please supply me with a picture of the relays in the base of the cabinet and their names? The labels on my relays have been completely worn off.

Also, there are globes above the relays and currently not working. Would this indicate there is a loss of power in the chain? Some relays don't do anything when pressed by hand. I got a Williams Hot Tip EM working, but it didn't have globes in the base of the cabinet like the Bally. The stepper units also work freely on Captain Fantastic which is a plus. No heavy cleaning of the steppers like I did on Hot Tip.

If anyone has any starter advice for this Bally EM, it would be much appreciated.

Cheers!
Adam.

#2 5 years ago

Start with replacing the fuse holders. The bulb you see above the relay is for the tilt delay circuit, it will not come on unless the game is tilted.

Follow the guide here: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/

It is a systematic guide to EM repair.

#3 5 years ago

Ahhh ok then. I was wondering if those bulbs needed to be lit while the game is running. That cancels out one problem.

Will replace the fuse holders.

Does anyone have a diagram with the names of each relay on them? I have an excellent EM picture with labels for Willams machines, but couldn't find one for Bally games.

Cheers!
Adam.

#4 5 years ago

I wasn't able to find one for my Wizard I just finished. Hopefully someone will have one for CF though!

2 months later
#5 4 years ago

It's been a while since I worked on the Captain and I got some spare hours yesterday. Replaced all the fuse holders in the machine and put the correct fuses in. I have also started creating a graphical list of the relays in the base of the cabinet. Nino from the Aussie Pinball forum was very helpful in supplying information. Will post my image to both forums in the coming days.

At the moment, my Game Over relay isn't latching when I turn the machine off an on. I can manually trip it by hand and the Game Over light comes on behind the backglass. I can increment credits on the wheel and press the start button, but no ball is kicking out. I've also checked all the stepper units and they are moving freely. All the score reels are set to zero.

My first question is, can someone tell mr where do I start in resolving the Game Over relay latch issue?

Cheers!
Adam.

#6 4 years ago

Adam, this part of the schematic should help you.

CF.JPG
#7 4 years ago

ok, as schematics are like reading French to me, will see how I go. Work from left to right? Will have a better idea when I'm in front of the machine. Will report back.

Cheers!
Adam.

#8 4 years ago

Adam mate. first thing, get a copy of the schematic from here -http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=438

I would suggest you buy one when you order parts. The scanned copies can be hard to read, and proper copy will set you back $20.

As far as reading one, but the time you finish with this machine, you will have a good idea, we will help you.

First thing about reading schematics , Bally and most others schematics are drawn at a specific point.
Everything reset to zero, ball one, one player, the ball in the shooter lane and the power off, remember this when you are reading your schematic. The other thing to note – manually latched Relays, like the game over relay, don’t change state when the power is off.

Now the Gameover Relay (GO RE). When the power is turned off then back on, both the Lock RE and the GO RE trip coil are powered. The GO RE Trip puts the GO RE in the game over mode and Lock RE turns on the lights, and de energises the GO trip coil. So when you turn on the power, this lights come on and the game over lights on the back board. Sounds like this much is working.

Now manually make the score reels other than zero, at least one of them, so we can see that they reset.

The next thing, assuming you have credit, press the credit button (Game Start). So long as the GO RE is tripped the Credit RE should energise, this will then energise the Coin RE and then the Reset RE. even though here I have made it sound like there is time between each RE energising, really it all happens at once.

You should here the score motor run and the score reels should reset to zero.

Let us know how you go to this point. I was going to add bits of schematic, but I will wait till we see how far you get with this.

#9 4 years ago

No closer tonight. Just a night of familiarising myself with all the relays.

Started out by testing the Game Over latch coil with a 9V battery while machine was turned off. It pulled the latch in.

With everything reset to zero position, turned the game back on and Game Over latch didn't pull in. Looking at the schematics, I focused on the Reset relay. I gave the contacts a clean with the flex stone file and observed what switches were open and closed while the machine was turned off, but nothing was jumping out at me.

As a test, I stepped up the Ball Count Unit and the Bonus Unit, started a game and everything reset back to zero. The machine stops dead before a ball is kicked out. When I press down the Outhole Relay manually, the kicker will fire. Also at this point, the flippers and playfield switches have no power.

From when I hit the start button, the Coin, Credit and Reset Relays fire (from memory) and one of the steppers on the base of the cabinet.

Will sleep on it.

Cheers!
Adam.

#10 4 years ago

Thanks Chris, your post appeared after I clicked send on my last post. Phone is at 10% and about to go flat. Will report back tomorrow.

I moved the score reels manually on the weekend and they did reset when I pressed start. Will double check those again tomorrow night.

I winged it with my Hot Tip (EM) repair, but will take your advice and get a set of schematics for this machine.

Thanks again!

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

Adam mate. first thing, get a copy of the schematic from here -http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=438
I would suggest you buy one when you order parts. The scanned copies can be hard to read, and proper copy will set you back $20.
As far as reading one, but the time you finish with this machine, you will have a good idea, we will help you.
First thing about reading schematics , Bally and most others schematics are drawn at a specific point.
Everything reset to zero, ball one, one player, the ball in the shooter lane and the power off, remember this when you are reading your schematic. The other thing to note – manually latched Relays, like the game over relay, don’t change state when the power is off.
Now the Gameover Relay (GO RE). When the power is turned off then back on, both the Lock RE and the GO RE trip coil are powered. The GO RE Trip puts the GO RE in the game over mode and Lock RE turns on the lights, and de energises the GO trip coil. So when you turn on the power, this lights come on and the game over lights on the back board. Sounds like this much is working.
Now manually make the score reels other than zero, at least one of them, so we can see that they reset.
The next thing, assuming you have credit, press the credit button (Game Start). So long as the GO RE is tripped the Credit RE should energise, this will then energise the Coin RE and then the Reset RE. even though here I have made it sound like there is time between each RE energising, really it all happens at once.
You should here the score motor run and the score reels should reset to zero.
Let us know how you go to this point. I was going to add bits of schematic, but I will wait till we see how far you get with this.

Tonight I discovered a wire off on a relay on the front righthand side of the playfield. It has no label, so I don't know what it controls. I soldered that back on.

I set everything in the machine back to zero and moved some of the score reels to various numbers. The machine reset these back to zero. I did this a second time and one got stuck which sent the machine into a continuous loop and I had to turn it off. I reset the reel to zero that was acting up and then turned the machine back on. I pressed on the relays in the head that scored points and reset reels. The reels all reset freely.

Once everything was back to zero, I reset the game over latch and the steppers and pressed start. Once again, the COIN, CREDIT and RESET relays all pulled in. The RESET relay was the last relay to drop out. Score motor runs as it should, but stops when the RESET relay drops out as expected.

As a side note, what is the best way to clean or adjust the switches on a bottom row? Unscrew the relay?

Cheers!
Adam.

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from ahdelarge:

I did this a second time and one got stuck which sent the machine into a continuous loop

This most likely one of the Zero SW on the score reel, may need cleaning and/or adjusting. The Reset RE will say energised until all score reels are at zero, the Reset RE will also start the SCR Motor, hence the continued running of the SCR Motor.

I’m assuming that the Game Over RE is still not latched after the Reset RE dropped out?

So what to do, look on the schematic at the Relay location section on the right hand. Find Game Over Latch RE location (17E) – Go to the part of the schematic and find the GO RE Latch coil. This is a bit tricky, but cos I know, everything on the left is required to make the GO RE latch, for a new game.

Remember the schematic is drawn power off.

To latch the Game Over RE we need all SWs below to close. If this is not happening, check each SW.

Every SW is marked which relay ETC and the wire colours are marked too.
EG Coin RE SW has a wire colour of yellow one side of the switch and 15-9 the other.

15- 9, on the schematic there is a key to wire colour – first number 1 = Red, the main colour of the wire and 5 = white the trace colour. The -9 means that this wire is the ninth time used, it also means that when you see the same number 15-9, it’s the same wire run.

SWs in circles are SW found on the Score motor. All this is actually written on the schematic too.

To read Jones Plugs – the Number “A” is the number of connectors the numbers in the boxes are the wire numbers and are the same position on the drawing as they are on the plug it self.

***So to latch the GO RE we need, the Coin RE on, good connection though the selection plug, SW 3C closed on the Scr Motor (3C = (3) 3rd cam from the motor and (C) 3rd SW up from the cam) and the Reset RE to be ON.***

help-731.jpg

#13 4 years ago

Didn't get time to fully work on the machine tonight, but couldn't help myself and had a tinker before bed.

The Game Over RE will unlatch (after I manually latch it) when the start button is pressed and the relays pull in. The problem was that it wasn't latching when the machine was first turned on.

I followed your advice and focused on the Coin RE, the Reset RE and the Game Over RE based on the schematics (schematics are also making more sense after your explanation).

Starting with the Game Over RE tonight, I adjusted some of the switches that seemed to have substantial space between them. After I turned the machine on, GI lighting was now bright and the Game Over RE pulled in. I turned the machine off and put the playfield down.

I turned the machine on and the Game Over light turned on. I put extra credits on the reel and pressed play. The ball flung out into the shooter lane for the first time. The score reel was still resetting madly and then the chimes started ringing repeatedly. I could use the flippers and the playfield switches were activating. It was in a continuous loop and decided I would have to call it a night.

Many thanks for your help Chris! Wow....it's only been a few days and closer to getting the machine working than I had expected.

Cheers!
Adam.

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from ahdelarge:

The score reel was still resetting madly and then the chimes started ringing repeatedly

This may be a stuck SW on the play field (PF)
When the Reset RE is in control ofresetting of the Score Reels, the chimes don't sound. When you score points, there is a relay for that point value EG 10 point RE. When this RE energies it advances the score and fire the chime coil.

Quoted from ahdelarge:

It was in a continuous loop

Are you talking about the Score Motor or the Score reels here?

#15 4 years ago

Chris! You're a legend. Not only had you helped me directly on this thread, but had been following bits and pieces on other EM repair threads that have been invaluable in understanding EM pinball machines.

Before turning the machine on, I scanned underneath the playfield for any scoring switches that were pressed together. I didn't find anything out of the ordinary.

When I turned the machine on, the Game Over relay would latch on and the Game Over light would illuminate on the backglass. When the start button was pressed, the various relays would pull in, Game Over relay would unlatch and the ball would kick out. At this point, the machine would continuously chime, the 100 point relay would score repeatedly on the backglass and the 500 Relay would continuously pull in on the same side of the Game Over Relay in the base of the cabinet. The drop targets would also reset repeatedly. I turned the machine off and decided to have a think about it.

I did some reading about the 500 Relay and then I decided to go and find what switches would score 500 points. I scanned the playfield and saw 500 on the drop targets. It all made sense. The drop targets resetting. On the left hand side underneath the drops, the majority of the switches were touching. I gave them each a slight bend with the switch adjuster tool, put the playfield down and turned the machine on.

The game started and this time there was no resetting. Some scoring switches on the playfield need adjusting as they weren't making contact, the lights in the pop bumpers would drop out and then then back on and currently, the game won't end and there are no lights illuminating ball 1 to 5.

Cheers!
Adam.

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