Do you have the schematic? I don't have that pin, but would guess you have a switch on the scoremotor, or a game over relay, tilt relay, start relay, maybe that passes power to the playfield?

can you post a snip of the schematic showing the circuits you refer too? that would help

Hi tmeinc +
When I buy a pin "not running" I like to have a schema and a manual (for the Start-Procedure). You do have a schema. ipdb.org has http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=438 -> schema and manual, great.

ALWAYS pull / unplug) the Line-Cord when working on the pin - Danger, 110 VAC, Danger, Bally runs the pin by 50 VAC. Plug-in / turn-on ONLY when testing.

I prefer trying to start a game by pushing the "Replay-Button". Do You have replays on the counter ? (Unplug the Line-Cord) Manually put some credits on the Counter by pushing onto the plunger at the unit. Well, you write "Set to Free-Play".

First look at the switches on the Coin-Door. The schema (C-5, C-6, C-7) says: First Coin-Chute-Switch is a Normally-Open switch, 2nd Coin-Chute-Switch is a Make-and-Brake Switch (3 blades), 3rd Coin-Chute-Switch also is a M+B Switch (3 blades).
Carefully activate these switches -> they want to move -> does the N.O.-Switch securely closes (and afterwards opens again) ? Do the M+B switches work - the middle blade moves (and afterwards moves back) ?

Look at manual, read page-4 -> page-5: ... 1D. ...Credit-Button / Replay-Button will energize the Credit-Relay -> energize the coin-Relay -> 2a etc.
Look, check and tell us the very first fault -> we will have a look at this fault. (A fault can produce strange behavior later on - looking at the strange behaviour is not recommended, fixing the early fault makes dissapear the strange behaviour)
Greetings Rolf

That latch/lock game over relay is super finicky on that game seems in particular. Look very closely at those switches and adjust/clean accordingly. W/power off you can check continuity of each switch to make sure it is open or closed.

Hi tmeinc +
Manual: Please look here: http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/438/Bally_1976_Capt_Fantastic_FULL_Manual_United_States_Domestic_.pdf -> on top of page-5 "I read": 1D. when the credit unit ...

I am surprised - Your "4) A few seconds later the Ball-Index-Relay*** and the Outhole-Relay energizes", there is a fault: The Ball-Index-Relay*** must be inactive UNTIL You make points on the playfield. The Ball-Index-Relay has a so called "Self Hold Switch" - when activated by making points: Through this switch the Ball-Index-Relay maintains (gets himself) "Current-forever". If this Switch is "faulty-always-closed": the relay starts pulling on its own. Look at the "Coil of Ball-Index-Relay": from one side of the coil there runs a short wire to a switch "attached at the relay": The Self-Hold-Switch: Turn-off the game (Relay shall be inactive) and look at that switch: Is the switch "securely open"?
You "also / might have as well" a stuck playfield switch causing the 10 point relay or the 100 point relay or the 1000 point relay to energize. Have a look at these relays - is one pulling ? (when starting a game: none of these relays shall pull.

Your "Number 6": This is the "Coin Lockout Coil" changing between "I accept money" <-> "I do not accept money", this behaviour is a fault.
This coil is in the schema at F-12 , we see: it is activated by the turning of the Score-Motor (Switch SCM-1C). so we can say "Number 6 is a side-effect of "Score-Motor-faulty-turning-endlessly"".
So we should look at the Score-Motor (schema-F-11).
Below the Score-Motor I see in the schema several switches (Sw on Outhole-Relay, on Target ... Re, on 300 an 3 Adv, on BONUS-SCORE*** RE, on 500 Re, on Bottom Lane Gate 300 Re. (In the schema (to the left of these switches) I see more switches to come.

BONUS SCORE*** Relay: What do You mean with "Bonus Stepper starts" ?
The schema has (outmost right) a list - I read: Bonus Score Relay / Bonus Unit Reset Solenoid / Bonus Unit Set Up Solenoid - what is Your "Bonus Stepper" ?

Pull / unplug the Line-Cord. manually put some points on the score-Reels of Player-1. Plug-in and start a game -Tell me about the "timing" of "resetting the score-Reels" <-> Ball Index- / Outhole-Relay start pulling.

In Switzerland it is 10 past midnight - I go to sleep - until tomorrow, greetings Rolf

Hi Dick
great, You made progress.

In this post I do not write about "Captain Fantastic problems". Some general thoughts:

Now and then I see a switch drawn in the schema and I ask myself "Why / what for" is this switch drawn here ? Most of the time the former game has ended regular - all players have played all balls, (also) on the last ball the Bonus has been counted down (the ball therefore is in the Outhole between the flippers), the pin moved the Game-Over-Relay to "position Game-Over" (we see the "Game-Over-Light" in the backbox).
Hmm, the switch in the schema ? I think of "Thunderstorm and lightning" - the local Power-Station was hit (lightning) - a complete Blackout. The pin is stopped, player-3 was playing ball-2, he has made some Bonus and the ball is in an Eject-Hole on the playfield (see here on top of the playfield: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=820&picno=38007 ). - Blackout -

After the "Blackout" is fixed we want to start the pin. The ball must be kicked-out off the Eject-Hole (and roll into the Outhole). The Bonus must be set to Zero (but not counted), the Game-Over-Relay must be brought into "State Game-Over", other features must be reset.

THEN, after that - the "regular Start-up Procedure" can take place ...

Hmm, the switch in the schema ? Most likely mounted "because of the written above".

So when I have a pin with "Start-up problems" I am nice and friendly and helpful: (I unplug the Line-cord) I manually reset the Bonus-Counter, I put some points on the Score-Reels, (maybe) I move the Ball-Count-Unit to "Position Last Ball" (maybe also the Player-Unit), I move the Game-Over-Relay into "State Game-Over". (((On a Gottlieb I might fumble at the Relay-Bank))) I put some credits on the Replay-Counter. I do everything I can think of to bring the pin into "State - former game has ended REGULAR".

Faults: I see "at given time in the Start-up Procedure" the Relay-D is faulty-pulling (right now it should not be pulling). I check the "Self-Hold-Switch mounted on the Relay" - I unplug the Line-cord -> Relay-D is not pulling -> question: Is a blade on that Self-Hold-Switch bent and makes "faulty-contact" (switch is closed when relay is inactive) ?
No, the "Self-Hold-Switch on Relay-D" is good -> I look in the schema for "What causes Relay-D pulling" - maybe it is only Relay-C, maybe Relay-C and/or Relay-B. I look at all these relays: Pulling / not pulling / a bent "Self-Hold-Switch" ? When Relay-C (-B) is NOT pulling: I look at the "Switch on Relay-C (for to activate Relay-D)" - blade bent ?, making faulty-contact (closed even when Relay-C is not pulling) ?.
I might end with "a Switch-A on the playfield is faulty-always closed" (because I have put on new rubbers and the rubber is thicker than the old one and so this switch is faulty-closed / I have bent a blade being shoddy, shoddy work).

I look in the pin -> I look in the schema -> I look in the pin -> -> -> . And it is very helpful to have a Manual for the Start-up Procedure - I do step by step (checking pin / schema / manual).
WHEN I HAVE A LOOK AT A SWITCH: I do not only clean the switch (some cardboard, rough / raw is fine), I do not only look at the blades / contact-points - I also look at the lugs where the wires are soldered-on - IT CAN BE BENT HERE. I do not only look at - I grab every wire and gently pull a bit (wire solderd-on ?)

"Jumper-Wires": I like them, I have several Jumper-Wires, some are three feet long, some are up to 10 (15) feet long - I might want to jumper a "switch in the Backbox" to a "Coil mounted in the Cabinet", I want my Jumper-Wire coming out of the backbox -> -> -> through the open Cash-Door into the Cabinet to the Coil. I now can lower the playfield and play having the Jumper-Wire mounted.
I might say "At some time there should be a connection between "Point-A in the pin" and "Point-B in the pin". (I unplug the Line-Cord) I clip-on one long Jumper-Wire onto Point-A, lead the wire carefully around (away from) Relays / Units through the Cash-Door into the open. A second Jumper-Wire I clip-on at Point-B ... into the open. I lower the playfield, a friend helps, he activates features on the playfield (simulates playing) and I put together the ends of the two Jumper-Wires "at the right moment".
I like Jumper-Wires - I ONLY use Jumper-Wires when I have a schema AND I KNOW what I am jumpering.

(((Bally pins have 48 / 50 Volts !!! Another useful tool: The "Test-Light". In another "Topic" / "other problems" Steve Fury shows a wonderful "Test-Light for testing 24 Volt (Relays) Circuitry,
HERE: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reading-gottlieb-schematics post-12. In post-10 he writes about testing (I also made myself this handy tool).)))

Dick, want to get some "Test-Lite" (mounting four 12-Volt Bulbs in a chain / row to sum up to 48 Volts) ? Some Jumper-Wires ? K-Mart and such sell cheap "Gator-Clips, no insulation of the clips", Radio-Shack and such sell "more expensive Gator-Clips, the clips have insulation". There are places You need insulated Gator-Clips (Relay-Bank, Score-Motor) - most of my Jumper-Wires have the "cheap Gator-Clips" ...

There is much more to write "in general", I end this post, I hope You can use my writing, next post will be "concrete / specific Captain Fantastic problems".
Greetings Rolf

tmeinc....you're welcome. I don't have the game any more, but a majority of it's problems led to the evil latch/lock relay. I have worked on another that had same problem w/correction being at the latch/lock relay.

Take your time and as I wrote look very closely. There is not a lot of tolerance between movement. I use a continuity tester on any suspicious problems like that....power off.

Good luck to you! You'll get it.

Hi Dick
great, You made progress. For "not to get cofused where we are" I would like to follow the "Start-Procedure in the manual" -> very first fault -> we look at that fault (Your writing about 10 point / 100 point / 1000 point Relays: I do not really understand).

Lets have a look at the Bonus Unit. When the "game before" has ended "normally": This Unit is counted down to Zero - and so a Switch (ore more) has opened. Then YOU want to start a new game and the pin tries ENDLESSLY to step that Unit down to zero - for AFTERWARDS / then do the regular "Start-Up Procedure" (?) (this could be the fault).
The "Bonus Unit Reset Solenoid" is drawn at Schema-F-18 - there is a paper around the coil "CD 29-1600". The "Bonus Step-up Solenoid is drawn at schema-F-33, "B-26-1100".

Dick, please write: Which coil fires (?) - I assume (F-18) the Reset-Coil CD-29-1600. Unplug the Line-Cord and look at the Unit -> can You manually step-up and can You manually step-down ? (push onto the plungers). When You step-down, from Pos-1 to Pos-0: Do You see a switch opening ? A Make and Brake switch move ? Look at all the switches that are moved by changing "Pos-1 -> Pos-0" - are they good ?
Important: Does the "Bonus Score Relay" pulls ? pulses ? endlessly ? At schema-D-10 / D-11, below the Score-Motor I see a "Switch named Bonus Score Re." - if this switch is "faulty closed" -> the Score-Motor will run forever.

Be nice and friendly to the pin - manually step the Bonus Unit down to "Pos-0" (switches good ?) then start a game -> -> -> write about the very first strange behaviour in the Start-Procedure. Also write about Bonus Score Relay / which "Bonus-Coil" does fire endlessly.
Greetings Rolf

This probably won't help, but there is a "secret" fuse mounted on the underside of the Captain Fantastic playfield. Might be worth checking.

Hi Dick
do not get frustrated - the "Captain Fantastic" is a very good pin I heavily used to play in my youth. I happen to say I collect "Williams and Gottliebs" (AND have spare parts) - NO Bally (because of the spare parts / 50 Volts AC). But the pin is well worth "keeping at it".

I never had a look into a "Captain Fantastic". Cash_Riprock mentioned "problematic Interlock (Latch and Trip) Game-Over Relay". Want to check that relay - it has two STABLE states: One coil pulls and moves its anchor plate -> stable state. Some time later the other coil pulls and moves its anchor-plate -> stable state. And so on.

pinrepair has a nice video: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#axrelayvideo - it is about the (unfriendly word) AX-Relays, but good to have a look at the functionality: Look at "Time-01:30 to 1:45" . Later-on in the video starting at 3:25 he shows how to adjust such an Interlock-Relay TIGHTENING THE BLADES to have more "Pull-back".
The manual http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/438/Bally_1976_Capt_Fantastic_FULL_Manual_United_States_Domestic_.pdf , page-16 shows "Adjustment Screws", "Springs" (Too tight or too loose ?).
A general / important question: Do the two anchor plates sit "good / correct" in place ?

A good way when dealing with the "Start-up procedure": Unplug the Jones-Plugs and take-out the playfield (store it away). You now have good access to the relays / units in the cabinet. All over the world peaple say "a pin does the "Start-up Procedure" fine - NOT having a playfield connected". If this is true on "Bally Captain Fantastic" (?) - I do not know.
Greetings Rolf

Hi tmeinc5
great, You made progress.
Here - just the bumpers: At schema-E-33 I see a rectifier for the Center Thumper Bumper, Left and Right T.B. --- AND I SEE a 5 amp fuse. Maybe it is just the "Fuse has blown" ? (((Fuse mounted near the Bumpers / near the Rectifier / underneath the playfield ?)))
Greetings Rolf

Hi tmeinc5
Gottlieb is different. Williams and Bally use 3 Units:
"Coin Unit" = "How many players want to play the next round". It resets to Pos-1 in the Startup-Procedure. BEFORE a ball has played: We can step-up this Unit to Pos-2, -3 , -4.
"Ball Count Unit" = "What / which ball is in play ?" first -> second -> third -> maybe fourth -> maybe fifth -> the "Game-Over" comes. It resets at Start-up-Procedure.
"Player Unit" = What / which player plays the (new) given ball ?" 1 / 2 / 4. It resets at Start-Up-Procedure.

Coin Unit has the lead -> At the end of a ball: Maybe only the Player Unit will be stepped-up - maybe the Ball count Unit will be stepped-up and (almost) at the same time: The Player-Unit will be stepped down to Pos-1.

All these 3 Units are "Total-Reset-Stepper": When the Coil "Step-Down" pulls: Boingggg, in ONE step -> down to Pos-1 (You might have been in Pos-4 or in Pos-3 or -2 (or even in Pos-1 - when You play a One-Player Game): Boingggg ...

So do not look for Player Unit (when You want to start a game for player-2): The COIN-UNIT must step-up. In the schema it is shown around D-14 / D-15, E-14 / E-15, F-14 / F-15. You push the Credit-Button -> The Credit-Relay should pull -> the Coin-Relay should pull, the Score-Motor should turn.
THE RESET-RELAY SHOULD NOT (NO MORE) PULL, so the Make-and-Brake switch named "Reset Re." (Schema-E-15 / E-16) should be "as drawn in the schema" -> The "Coin-Unit-Step-Up-Solenoid" should fire (stepping (visible) Player-1 -> Player-2 (NOW: Two players can play).
Greetings Rolf

Hi tmeinc5
Gottlieb often (all pins ?) uses a "Trough Switch" underneath the playfield. A Ball kicked over to the Shooter Lane rolls over it, depresses and closes this switch (for some specific action). Here You see such a switch: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2459&picno=46683 outmost right, above the right flipper-coil.
Here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=438&picno=26406&zoom=1 I am not sure - I believe NO THROUGH SWITCH.

If (if) there is NO Through-Switch on the Captain Fantastic: You could make Yourself a nice Test-Tool. Testing while waiting for the New Ball Kicker Solenoid ? (Wanna be fancy ?)

It would work like this: You have the playfield down, You put a finger in the Outhole and start a game. As a "Light***" lights-up: You take Your finger away,You put a bath sponge or a towel in front of the Outhole (blocking), You place the ball in the Shooter Lane -> play the ball -> loose the ball (lays in front of the bath sponge), You take the ball and the bath sponge away -> put a finger in the Outhole -> wait -> A "Light***" lights up -> You take Your finger away, You put the bath sponge back in front of the Outhole, You put the ball in the Shooter Laner -> You play the ball -> and so on. (The wires and the Test-Lite come through the open coin-Door into the "Open").

The "Light***" is in the circuitry INSTEAD of the "Coil of Ball Kicker Solenoid". You must buy 4 12Volt Bulbs for cars in K-Mart or such - mounting these bulbs one behind the other (like in a chain) so it adds up : 12 Volt + 12 Volt + 12 Volt + 12 Volt = 48 Volt --- a "consumer of 48 Volt electricity" JUST as a coil is a "consumer of 48 Volt electricity". Simply connect the "wires to the Coil" TO THE START AND END OF YOUR TESTLIGHT.

In another "Topic" / "other problems" Steve Fury shows a wonderful "Test-Light for testing 24 Volt (Relays) Circuitry",
HERE: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reading-gottlieb-schematics post-12. In post-10 he writes about testing (I also made myself this handy tool). The Test-Light can be used in different ways.
ATTENTION: Bally runs on 48 Volt -> You must use FOUR 12 VOLT Bulbs !
Greetings Rolf

Hi tmeinc5
maybe Your pin is altered - flippers act on DC ? I have never seen / heard of ...
I look in the schema-E-32 / -33 - the symbol of the rectifier: on "left" and "right" are the feeding "AC-Wires", on top the resulting "DC-Minus", on the bottom the resulting "DC-Plus". I see DC-driven the bumpers and the slingshots. I see the flipper-coils drawn nearby - BUT driven by "AC".
I never had a problem "Rectifier" -> I suggest You start a new (little) topic "How to check / repair rectifiers" (we already have 26 posts in here - think of somebody (in the future) having a problem with an rectifier - does he wants to wade through all 26 to 40 (?) posts here ?)

You want to start a game for 2 players ?
Unplug the Line-Cord and look for the "COIN-UNIT" (in the cabinet ?). Are papers wrapped around the coils ? CO-29-1600 is the "Total-Reset-Coil", B-25-1100 is the "Single-Step-up-Coil". (Line-Cord unplugged) Do push onto the plungers (several times) , You simulate "Coil gets current, gets magnetic, pulls, plunger travels" - can You step-up "single steps" ? Can You make a "Total-Reset" - Boingggg ... (in ONE movement of the plunger: the Unit resets completely) ?

Step the Unit to position-3. Plug-in the Line-Cord, start a game and look at the Coin-Unit - when "Resetting": Do You see ): Boingggg, the "Total-Reset" ? If not: Report. NOW carefully (attention 50 VAC around) push the Step-up-plunger (at B-25-1100-Coil) -> Can You NOW play a 2-player-game ? Please report.

When You fumble on the Player-Unit: You simulate "When playing it shall step from (example) Player-1-Ball-3 to Player-2-Ball-3".

A nice way to use the "Test-Light". The Step-up-Coil on Coin-Unit: There are wires soldered-on on both sides of the Coil. Clip-on one Gator-Clip of the Test-Light onto one Lug-of-Coil, the other Gator-Clip of the Test-Light onto the other Lug-of-coil. You have mounted the Test-Lite PARALLEL to / with the Coil. When the coil gets current: The Test-Light also lights-up.
And when You see NO LIGHT-UP - Conclusion: A Fault, current does NOT gets to here ...
Greetings Rolf

Hi Dick
about the DC-Bumpers / Slingshots - Here: http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/245/Williams_1977_Big_Deal_Instruction_Manual.pdf -> page-7 there are a few words to "problems". I never had such a problem - I do not know - "a topic on its own "How do I test / repair a rectifier ? "" ?

BUT ??? - do the 2 feeding / connecting wires "AC" / current arrive at the rectifier ? On the bottom of my post-26, "A nice way to use the Test-Light ..." -> we can use the Testlite ON THE RECTIFIER: In the schema I see: "AC-wire-color-30-Yellow" and "AC-wire-color-10-Red". So clip-on Your Test-Light onto "Yellow" and onto "Red" ->
If the Test-Light lights up: "AC" reaches the rectifier -> You have a problem with the rectifier.
If the Test-Light does NOT light up: The rectifier is "good" or "no good" (we do not know yet), definitely a fault is: "AC" does not reach the rectifier- maybe a wire has fallen-off somewhere / maybe switch somewhere is (faulty) open / contacts oxidated.
Please do the test with the Test-Light and report.

General "a fault, no connection" can have several causes: Somewhere inside the insulation (therefore not visible) a wire has broken (ultra-rare cause), a wire has broken-off a solder-lug at a point (coil / switch / jones-plug), somewhere the solder is "no good / cold / damaged - needs to be soldered-on again" (ultra-rare cause), a relay should pull and by that a switch on the relay should close - but the relay does not pull (the switch IS ENTITLED to stay open), and the "mean / itchy cause": The relay does pull - BUT a blade of that switch is heavily bent and the switch does not close (even when the relay is pulling).
(((Again: wires broken-off ? contact points oxidated ?)))

"Flippers, Slingshots, Bumpers, Playfield features not working" - You know / You can take away the playfield-glass and check (what I write here): In "State Game-Over" the player cannot activate flippers and such. In "State "he banged a Tilt"" he cannot activate flippers and such. In "State "You have started a new game" - the pin is busy doing the Reset" You cannot activate flippers and such.
This phenomena(s) are controlled by "relays / switches on relays" - the main 50 VAC power-line is cut: A "Switch on Game-Over-Relay", a "Switch on Tilt-Relay", a "Switch on Reset-Relay".

Lets look it up in the schema - at D-3 (encircled "4") is the 50VAC-Power-side of transformer -> up -> 10 amp fuse -> to the right -> wire-80-Black -> at F-19 / F-20 the "Switch named Reset Re." -> follow the thin line -> wire-38-10-Yellow-Black -> a "Switch named Game Over Re." -> wire-15-Red-White -> a "switch named Tilt Re." -> wire-10-Red -> -> -> at schema-F-40 a U-turn down and to the left -> at schema-F-35 / F-36: The "Power-Lug on the Flipper-Coils".

So if the "Switch on Reset-Relay" is faulty - and/or "Switch on Game-Over Relay" is faulty and/or "Switch on Tilt-Relay" is faulty: All (or some) of the playfield-features do not work (remember: "relay can faulty pull / faulty not pull" <-> "Relay is doing what the relay should do - BUT a Switch-blade is bent).

So first the question "Relay / Switch on Relay": RESET-RELAY (schema-F-19 / F-20). Just above I see the "Coil First Player 100'000 Relay (and 2nd and 3rd and 4th)". When the pin does the "Reset": the Switch (on Reset-Relay) opens AND CLOSES AFTER RESET (Reset-Relay quits pulling).
Please do this test: Start a new game -> pin resets -> pin comes to a halt. NOW gently push onto the "anchor-plate of First Player 100'000 Relay" - it should "lock-in and keep-on pulling by closing its Self-Hold-Switch". Push and let go -> does this relay "keeps-on pulling" ? Please report.

You also can use the Test-Light: Clip-on at "Reset-Relay-Switch-side-wire-Yellow-Black". Clip-on the other wire of the Test-Light onto "Transformer-Lug-circled8-Yellow" (schema-C-3). You don't trus me ? Look at schema-F-19 / F-20 / G-19 / G-20 the connection -> through the "Coil of 1st Player 100'000 Relay" -> upwards to the wire-30-Yellow -> all the way to the right -> at the end of the schema down -> all the way to the "Lug-Yellow-on transformer".

Dick, my posts are (always) (too ?) long, I stop here - please do the tests and report. We might have to move (in the schema) to "How about the "Switch on Game-Over relay"" , move " ... Tilt-Relay".
Greetings Rolf