(Topic ID: 262930)

Bally Captain Fantastic only back box & coin door lights.

By AntennaMan

1 year ago


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  • 39 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by AntennaMan
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 1 year ago

1st EM. Assumed dead when I picked it up a couple weeks ago, though previous owner said it sort of flipped a bit. He thought it might partially be a bad power plug. He only had the machine long enough to flip it to me. When I plugged it in, no power. I replaced the power plug and now the coin door lights & most in the back box lights light. Also there's 125v at the service outlet. Held left flipper, tried to coin up. Nothing. Started wading through the Pinrepair tutorial, but I lose focus. I have the schematics. All 5 fuses test good with a meter. Thanks in advance.

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#2 1 year ago

from what I recall, look at the jones plug by the tilt mech on my old machine it got really hot to where you could see the discoloration around one of the pins

#3 1 year ago

found an old pic

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#4 1 year ago
Quoted from AntennaMan:

1st EM. Assumed dead when I picked it up a couple weeks ago, though previous owner said it sort of flipped a bit. He thought it might partially be a bad power plug. He only had the machine long enough to flip it to me. When I plugged it in, no power. I replaced the power plug and now the coin door lights & most in the back box lights light. Also there's 125v at the service outlet. Held left flipper, tried to coin up. Nothing. Started wading through the Pinrepair tutorial, but I lose focus. I have the schematics. All 5 fuses test good with a meter. Thanks in advance.[quoted image]

For what it's worth, I'm not the most experienced person here by no means but I have been able to fix EM's. I found that as long as everything is in place it's not that tough to figure out what's happing. The schematic is extremely helpful to me. Even though still suck at following them, I would be lost without it. Many times WD40 was used on a machine and now it's gumming EVERYTHING up and the switches and steppers no longer make reliable contact. My Capt. was so gummed up I finely removed the relay board from the machine and worked on it from the table. I had to disassemble every relay pack and clean the switches, It was a good time to adjust switch blades also. It was a fun challenge but now my Capt. works great every time.
I'm amazed how people here are so educated on S.S. games. I just started getting my feet wet working on those.
BTW. I did replace the power cord. now were grounded.

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#5 1 year ago

First thing to do, would be check all fuses and fuse holders. Bally fuse holders are often bad. It's best to just replace them. If they're not a problem now, sooner or later, they will be.

Then I would clean all the jones plugs with a small wire brush or fine sandpaper.

Once you eliminate these potential problem areas, you can start looking at switches and relays.

#6 1 year ago

I took the relay board out to make it easier. As I said in the OP, I checked all the fuses with a meter and they tested good. I've read how the Bally fuse clips are crap, but I was hoping mine were special, so I could at least get through the weekend and then some, until I can new ones shipped in. You know what hope gets you, at least one has broke. Anyone know if I might find few clips at either Home Depot, Lowes, Harbor Freight? Those places are 70 miles away(yes, I'm in the sticks), but I'm in need of a new extension ladder and possibly a 2nd HF workbench. Locally there are a few local hardware stores, auto parts stores, Tractor Supply & a Walmart.

As for cleaning the Jones plugs; at first look I thought at least half of them were in great shape with no cleaning needed. They appeared silver/metallic, but then I realized this was the corrosion/oxidation and their true color is brass.

#7 1 year ago

I was just looking for fuse holders around my area. All I could find were the in-line wire type. They will work in a pinch till your order of the correct one(s) arrive. Your tractor supply hopefully has the ones you need.

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#8 1 year ago

Did you check the fuse under the Playfield you didn't really say

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#9 1 year ago

I checked 5. That one, the one on the relay board by the service outlet and the 3 by the tilt. If there are more, let me know.

#10 1 year ago

Here is what I buy at O'reilly's Auto Parts:

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/blister-pack-4152/lighting---electrical-16777/fuses-16615/fuse-blocks--universal--18449/b381070c3b6b/littelfuse-blister-pack-20-amp-fuse-block/omn4bp/4414590?pos=2

Made by Littelfuse and they can snap apart into individual holders if desired. On Bally games, I snap them apart so that they will line up with the labels next to them. Most auto parts stores carry these fuse holders.

#11 1 year ago

see where the heat discolored this Jones connector ? what does the male counterpart look like ?

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#12 1 year ago
Quoted from chas10e:

see where the heat discolored this Jones connector ? what does the male counterpart look like ?[quoted image]

Good spot. It's been a while. I'll go out there and check it out.

#13 1 year ago

Is there a fix to prevent the green/white wire and jones plug from overheating? Or is that just a result of the machine being left on for long hours on a daily basis?

#14 1 year ago

OReilly had only one 4 pack in the whole building, but I have 5 fuses. Time for fuse holder Thunderdome. Winner gets to stay. Picked up a new old tool box from my Dad's while I was out, so I might get distracted setting it up.

#15 1 year ago

It's alive! It at least flips. Surprisingly all playfield switches, drop targets, roll overs, right outlane gate, chimes, all work. The pops, slings & flippers all are incredibly strong, no need to rebuild now, except for needing a new coil sleeve on the bottom left flipper. The rubber was literally disintegrating as I played.

The "bad". Though it keeps score, it doesn't reset to zero, though it does reset. It also thinks the upper right player is player one. I'm guessing it's not , but I have the backglass in the house right now.

The next issue I'd like to fix is not a single playfield light, GI nor specials. I rechecked all fuses and even swapped a bulb with one from the back box, no playfield lighting.

#16 1 year ago

The playfield lights run off of a different path than the backbox lights. See schematic. Red path is for back box (and front door), blue path is for playfield. It uses a different fuse/fuse block and it runs through a different jones plug #20.

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#17 1 year ago

I meant to post this over the weekend when I put in the new fuse clips, but...... I rewired the way it was, but I thought it looked sketchy. Tell me if this is correct or should the 2 black wires soldered together be separated and connected to different fuses, with the jumper between the other 2 fuses going away.

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#18 1 year ago

I just zoomed in on the pictures above and it appears the way mine was/is is correct. All fuses are still good.

#19 1 year ago

Has to be that Jones connector (male AND female sections) bad. I've worked on several Captain Fantastics over the years. All had playfield lights problems. In EVERY case it was the Jones connector causing the problem along with a burnt fuseholder.

#20 1 year ago

Yes, what Ken said, with special attention give to junction 20, that I mentioned previously. Here is where it's at. It will have a heavier gauge wire than the others. When in doubt jumper it.

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#21 1 year ago

Just to clarify, because I'm not near the machine; that group of connectors are the ones on the relay board on the bottom of the game, correct? The only fuse holder I didn't change, because I could only come up with 4, was the one under the playfield, but doesn't that one control the coils? Will jumper when I get home.

#22 1 year ago

Jumped the Jones plug at #20, no lights. This pin had a heavier blue wire connected to it. Decided to check continuity. Tests good between both sides of Jones. The blue wire appears to trace back to the bottom fuse by the tilt. Continuity checked good between female side of Jones, to the fuse, with both sides of the Jones connected. But it all checked good from both sides of the same plug, with both sides separated? Left Jones plug halves separated and got continuity back to the fuse and through all 3 of the fuses? Not only that, but when I pulled out one end of each fuse, I still got continuity back to pin 20 on the Jones plug. WTF?

#23 1 year ago

Are you sure you checked continuity THROUGH the fuse holder to the white/green wire when you tested it without fuses?

#24 1 year ago
Quoted from edednedy:

Are you sure you checked continuity THROUGH the fuse holder to the white/green wire when you tested it without fuses?

I did before and after. One fuse out, all fuses out. Of course I'll check again. What's the next step should things check the way they did last night?

#25 1 year ago

Remove the fuse. Put one probe of the meter on the fuse holder solder tab with the white/green wire and the other probe on the opposite solder tab with the blue wire. With the fuse removed, it is an open circuit. It should read infinite ohms. If you have continuity, something is definitely wrong.

#26 1 year ago

I have continuity not only with the one fuse you said to take out, but all 3 fuses in that area removed. By that I mean each individual fuse holder has continuity and between any of the terminals of those 3 fuses there's continuity. The power line fuse by the service outlet checks normal, as does the one attached to the bottom side of the playfield.

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from edednedy:

Remove the fuse. Put one probe of the meter on the fuse holder solder tab with the white/green wire and the other probe on the opposite solder tab with the blue wire. With the fuse removed, it is an open circuit. It should read infinite ohms. If you have continuity, something is definitely wrong.

I would think he's reading through a lamp filament and then through the transformer windings

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from edednedy:

Yes, what Ken said, with special attention give to junction 20, that I mentioned previously. Here is where it's at. It will have a heavier gauge wire than the others. When in doubt jumper it.[quoted image]

looks like that wire goes through a couple of Jones plugs

capt fantastic jones full (resized).jpg
#29 1 year ago
Quoted from AntennaMan:

I have continuity not only with the one fuse you said to take out, but all 3 fuses in that area removed. By that I mean each individual fuse holder has continuity and between any of the terminals of those 3 fuses there's continuity. The power line fuse by the service outlet checks normal, as does the one attached to the bottom side of the playfield.

Somethings fishy. If you are showing no resistance through an open fuse block, then there would be no point to a fuse. When the fuse blows (or is removed) it opens the circuit.

What type of meter or tester are you using?

#30 1 year ago

A DMM I've used for years. Have another in the work van, reads the same. I do home theater, satellite, Internet, etc. Went to college a hundred years ago for EE, baled after 3 years, too much partying. Roadied for many a year(make it work!) Grew up with a dad who had his journeyman in electric. So I like to think I'm not a complete dullard with electricity. But maybe I am.

#31 1 year ago

Try checking to see if you have voltage on both sides of the fuse.

#32 1 year ago

To review, the game is flipping and scoring correctly. I also seem to have got it to reset to zero the way it's supposed to. On to the latest finding, as strange as they are:

The fuse I'm pulling is the bottom one in my picture in post #17.

With the fuse out:

Test across the 2 contacts of the holder--7v
Blue side of holder to ground(I assume, it's green) at on/off switch--35v
Green/wht side of holder to ground at on/off switch--39v
Blue side of holder to GI "braid"--0v
Green/wht side of holder to GI "braid"--7v

#33 1 year ago
Quoted from AntennaMan:

Blue side of holder to GI "braid"--0v

Check that one again (Blue side) with the fuse IN. You should get the same 7v reading you got when you used the Green/White wire.

#34 1 year ago

Now I'm even more confused, but functional. Fuse was still out from earlier, put it in and got 6.5v. Was getting ready to post here, then thought I'd check to see if I was still getting 7v on the other side with the fuse out. Popped it, but it slipped back to making contact and all the GI and "control" lamps are working. Plugged the fuse back in fully and it's still working. Could this have anything to do with me pressing the reset mech, the 1st "stack" before my last post? I seemed to remember reading in another thread the GI somehow being tied to that group.

#35 1 year ago

The only thing I saw on the schematic in line between the transformer and the GI Playfield lighting was the fuse and the jones plug. Since it started working after messing with the fuse. It was most likely the fuse or holder. Strange, since you replaced the holder but hey... It's working!

#36 1 year ago

Going to clean, replace blow lights, then try to figure out why it starts on Player 2 and always selects a 3 player game, even when the start button is only pressed once. I think the Player 4 10k reel probably isn't working because of gunk. The same was happening with Player 2 & 3, but after a few games those 2 are working. Thanks for the help.

#37 1 year ago

Sounds like your step up units aren't fully resetting. Probably need to clean your coin and player up unit, but really you should just clean all the step up units until they advance and reset easily when manually activated with your finger.

#38 1 year ago

That's the plan. Not that I understand half of what you said.

4 weeks later
#39 1 year ago

I'm back. Cleaned everything, new rubber, posts, rebuilt flips, sealed backglass, fixed any switches that weren't working, still didn't get to the incorrect player problem, but other than that it was playing pretty good. And then.....the drops started to freak out. Constantly resetting, over and over and over. Turned the machine on/off and they'd stop resetting, until I tried to start a new game. Eventually they did stop and the fuse under the playfield was blown. Replaced the fuse, but now we're back to square one, coin door light and back box only. If I manually press the first set of blades, closest to the coin door, the cam rotates, the drops reset and the playfield lights flash for a fraction of a second, but not even long enough to get to full brightness. I can repeat this over and over with the same thing happening. Thoughts?

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