(Topic ID: 113054)

Bally Capersville - Problem with Close-Flipper-Solenoid

By ThomasLeiber

9 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 9 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Chrisbee
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 9 years ago

Dear Forum,

I have a problem with the Close-Flipper-Solenoid (E-184-239) of my Bally Capersville.

The measured resistance is 1.9 Ohm.

I think it is broken due to a EOS problem, ignored by the previous owner.

When the red mushroom bumper (which should close the zipper flippers) is lifted, the bats make a very short nervous twitch of about 1 millimeter and then the 1.6 SB fuse blows.

Since the coil is riveted etc., I am not sure if it can be disassembled for rewinding.

The problem is that I can not find a spare part for 50 Volts, only an equivalent type for 24 Volts.

Is it possible to use the 24 Volt solenoid with a series resistor ... or two 24Volt solenoids in series?

Thank you

Solenoid.jpgSolenoid.jpg
#2 9 years ago

Can’t tell you much about the coil other than use ohms law. Put what you know in this calculator see what the results are http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms_law_calculator.php
So if you have 50v and a 1.6 amp fuse. The above calculator will tell you the min ohm that coil can be. Answer is V/I = Ω = 31.25 ohms.

I don’t think you will have an issue using the 24v version. The 24v version will have thicker winding to handle more amps, if anything. So long as the new coil has a resistance > 40 Ω and fits.

resistors are current limiters, adding a resistor will only make the coil weak.

#3 9 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

Can’t tell you much about the coil other than use ohms law. Put what you know in this calculator see what the results are http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms_law_calculator.php
So if you have 50v and a 1.6 amp fuse. The above calculator will tell you the min ohm that coil can be. Answer is V/I = Ω = 31.25 ohms.
I don’t think you will have an issue using the 24v version. The 24v version will have thicker winding to handle more amps, if anything. So long as the new coil has a resistance > 40 Ω and fits.
resistors are current limiters, adding a resistor will only make the coil weak.

Something's way off here. I have a 1967 Bally Surfers which is a zipper flipper game. It uses the same solenoid as Capersville does. 184-239. I put the meter on mine and it reads 9 ohms. The schematic shows a 1.25 amp slo-blo. Surfers is a 50v game just like Capersville.

Of course, I measured this resistance with the leads attached, which occasionally will give you a bum reading, but I don't believe that this solenoid could possible be a 31 ohm solenoid. That's way too weak a solenoid to do the job this one does. It pulls in the plunger that moves the entire zipper flipper assembly to close. Once it gets to closed position there is a latch plate which holds the assembly closed. It's opened by a separate coil that pulls in the latch plate and releases the zipper flipper latch and the springs on the assembly pull everything back open. To pull that assembly it has to have a lot of power, like a flipper coil would have, and a 30 ohm solenoid just wouldn't have enough oomph to get the job done.

I understand this all violates Ohm's law, but experience tells me that this has to be a strong solenoid too. Anyway, that's what I found out. An internet search doesn't tell me the resistance of that solenoid and even John Robertson's chart doesn't have it. It's not on the schematic either.

If it's truly below 2 ohms, it's close to dead short territory and probably causing your problem. I wonder if you sent him the frame if Steve Young would rewind it for you?

#4 9 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

Something's way off here. I have a 1967 Bally Surfers which is a zipper flipper game. It uses the same solenoid as Capersville does. 184-239. I put the meter on mine and it reads 9 ohms. The schematic shows a 1.25 amp slo-blo. Surfers is a 50v game just like Capersville.

You maybe right, maybe the slow blow fuse allows 5.6 amps for a time. this would give you 270 watts or .36 HP to move the flippers in ( 1/2 the power of a Nutribullet,lol ). Slow blow fuses are hard to find data on, but what i have seen some can last for a full sec with 600% over load.

The one thing I had not conceded in my above post, is this coil only fires briefly then mechanically latches so the on time is very short.

So 9 ohms it is, as measured on a working coil.

#5 9 years ago

It's definitely not a hold coil. It just has to pull in long enough for the latch to grab.

That was what was confusing me, because it's pulling way more amps than the fuse is rated for, but as it is a slo-blo, maybe that is the explanation. A lot of electrical stuff eludes me at times...

#6 9 years ago
Quoted from ThomasLeiber:

Since the coil is riveted etc., I am not sure if it can be disassembled for rewinding.

Clay rewound one as seen here> http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#zips

#7 9 years ago

Also, Clay gives the resistance rating of the coil there, so now we know for sure.

Zipper flipper assemblies are a bit complex, but not terrible, to take apart. Just make sure you take lots of pictures to make sure you get it back together correctly. I removed mine awhile back to clean the entire assembly up. Parts for it are not easy to come by.

#8 9 years ago

Thanks a lot for all the input!

So according to Clay, the resistance of the solenoid is 5 Ohm.

Hmm, I think I will go for the equivalent 24 Volt solenoid, measure its resistance and add an high power resistor so that the total resistance is about 5 Ohm.

Lets see how it works.

And yes, my camera is my best friend regarding this

Merry Christmas and happy new year!
Thomas

#9 9 years ago

Just be aware that the one in clays (Link above) has a different part number (E-184-277) then the one you are using. I doubt there will be much difference.
looking at the manual, Capersville is when Bally made a change to this coil.
There is also E184-234 and the one you have E-184-239. I would go with the measured resistance in EMsInKC post above personally, as it is the same coil on the same machine..

This link is worth book marking too, i have set it to the page about the Zipper Flipper.
http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/BLY_Parts_1969/index.html#/132/

If you decide to rewind, also look at this thread, the OP Pic are missing but if you scroll down he has pic of the rewind in progress. There is a lot of satisfaction form doing this type of repair yourself.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wtb-e-184-277-coil

Look at the time (3.25pm), off to drink Christmas eve Beers.

Have a good one.

Chris

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