(Topic ID: 237494)

Bally Camelot has me scratching my head

By Danovh

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 20 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Danovh
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

0Camelot-Work-02 (resized).jpg
0Camelot-Work-01-Save (resized).jpg
Pinball (resized).png
Camelot_Schematic-1.pdf (PDF preview)
#1 5 years ago

Machine works great except for 1 issue. Randomly, on a 1, 2 or 3 player game, any 1 ball will go through all 4 players. It can be after 3 games, 10 games or 1 game, any 1 ball will run through all 4 players then play the rest normally. I have cleaned and adjusted all the switches that I believe are related to the ball advance without any success. Any help to solve this issue will be much appreciated.

#3 5 years ago

Thank you currieddog,
I do have this manual, but didn't realize it went into this much detail. I will take a closer look at it.

#4 5 years ago

Well, after going through the manual, cleaning up switches, still no cigar. I just can't figure this one out. Any ideas will much appreciated.

#5 5 years ago

I'll need to see a high quality scan of the schematic from (for example) Staples ($2) or Kinkos ($6)

#6 5 years ago

Sounds like player advance stepper unit needs to cleaned.

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

I'll need to see a high quality scan of the schematic from (for example) Staples ($2) or Kinkos ($6)

How's this?

Camelot_Schematic-1.pdfCamelot_Schematic-1.pdf
#8 5 years ago
Quoted from Cdemuro:

Sounds like player advance stepper unit needs to cleaned.

Damn, I think that's the only stepper I didn't clean. I will do that as soon as I get a chance and report back.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from Danovh:

Randomly, on a 1, 2 or 3 player game, any 1 ball will go through all 4 players

If the Player Reset relay doesn't activate when this happens, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

Also, is this how clear your copy is? If not, please consider emailing me your copy.

Pinball (resized).pngPinball (resized).png
#10 5 years ago

Hi Danovh +
looking at Your schematics (post-7) and reading the ipdb-manual I think Your pin handles stepping on players / balls other than I am used to (Williams 4-Player-Pins, Bally Pins like (example) Amigo).
My theory is: The Switch Score-Motor-10-B is adjusted tight - sometimes not opening. So the Player-Advance-Relay stays pulling too long. The Score-Motor - look here http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair#Bally_Score_Motor

Want to do a test (?) - hook on an oldfashioned 110VAC bedroom light as shown in the JPG - then play a couple of games - see how the bedroom light behaves "in normal play" --- and the question is: When the fault shows up - does the bedroom light behave "other" ? Greetings Rolf

0Camelot-Work-01-Save (resized).jpg0Camelot-Work-01-Save (resized).jpg
#11 5 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Also, is this how clear your copy is? If not, please consider emailing me your copy.

Give me your email & I will send it. I will also try your suggestion.

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Want to do a test (?) - hook on an oldfashioned 110VAC bedroom light as shown in the JPG - then play a couple of games - see how the bedroom light behaves "in normal play" --- and the question is: When the fault shows up - does the bedroom light behave "other" ? Greetings Rolf

This is a great idea, I will try this out. I'm currently cleaning the player advance stepper, this one is a pia.
I should be able to do a lot stuff over the weekend.
With the help from all you Pinsiders I feel confident I will get this resolved.
I have resolved many issues just looking through posts, this site is fantastic .
Thanks for all the help.

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from Cdemuro:

Sounds like player advance stepper unit needs to cleaned.

I cleaned this, but it wasn't in bad shape.
Still same fault.

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

My theory is: The Switch Score-Motor-10-B is adjusted tight - sometimes not opening. So the Player-Advance-Relay stays pulling too long. The Score-Motor - look here http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair#Bally_Score_Motor
Want to do a test (?) - hook on an oldfashioned 110VAC bedroom light as shown in the JPG - then play a couple of games - see how the bedroom light behaves "in normal play" --- and the question is: When the fault shows up - does the bedroom light behave "other" ? Greetings Rolf

I cleaned & adjusted this switch, still same fault. I did the light test but no difference when fault happened. I hooked up the light to the reset relay & the light blinked when playing normally but didn't when the fault happened. So this is definitely the problem.

Quoted from HowardR:

If the Player Reset relay doesn't activate when this happens, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires

I having some trouble figuring out how to do this. In what state should I test this circuit? Should I shut off the machine just as it is advancing to next ball?

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from Danovh:

I having some trouble figuring out how to do this. In what state should I test this circuit? Should I shut off the machine just as it is advancing to next ball?

Did you read the links I provided?

#15 5 years ago

Hi Danovh
I do not know if I understand Your post-1 correct --- "On a 1, 2 or 3 player game any 1 ball will run through all 4 players then play the rest normally."
Please give an example, lets say You start for a ONE-Player-Game - is the ball kicked-out as "Player-1-Ball-1" ? You then play the ball, make points, loose the ball - do You then get "Player-2-Ball-1" and You (faulty) play Player-2-Ball-1, loose the ball - do You then get "Player-3-Ball-1" and You (faulty) play Player-3-Ball-1, loose the ball - do You then get "Player-4-Ball-1" and You (faulty) play Player-4-Ball-1, loose the ball - do You then get "Player-1-Ball-2" and You play Player-1-Ball-2, loose the ball - do You then get "Player-1-Ball-3" etc. Greetings Rolf

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Did you read the links I provided?

Yes I did but still unsure exactly how to implement it. I will read them again & see if there is something I'm missing.

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

You start for a ONE-Player-Game - is the ball kicked-out as "Player-1-Ball-1" ? You then play the ball, make points, loose the ball - do You then get "Player-2-Ball-1" and You (faulty) play Player-2-Ball-1, loose the ball - do You then get "Player-3-Ball-1" and You (faulty) play Player-3-Ball-1, loose the ball - do You then get "Player-4-Ball-1" and You (faulty) play Player-4-Ball-1, loose the ball - do You then get "Player-1-Ball-2" and You play Player-1-Ball-2, loose the ball - do You then get "Player-1-Ball-3" etc. Greetings Rolf

Exactly, this can happen on any ball. I can play ball 1 player 1, ball 2 player 1, then ball 3 goes thru all 4 players then ball 4 & 5 play as it should only on player 1.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from Danovh:

Yes I did but still unsure exactly how to implement it. I will read them again & see if there is something I'm missing.

If you'd like to try a phone call, send me your cell # in a private message.

#18 5 years ago

Hi Danovh
thanks for post-16 (clarification). I did read something else in Your post-1. I join HowardR - here first about troubleshooting: Look at Your Player-Unit - see wire-91-2-Gray-Red (for Player-1) soldered-on (?), see wire-56-2-White-Brown (for Player-2) soldered-on (?), see wire-53-2-White-Yellow (for Player-3) soldered-on (?), see wire-75-8-Orange-White (for Player-4) soldered-on (?) TRUELY soldered-on ? Look-out on the Coin-Unit for this wire-color-75-8-Orange-White soldered-on - TRUELY soldered-on ? Look out on the swiches on the Ball-Return-Relay for this wire-color-75-8-Orange-White soldered-on - TRUELY soldered-on ? See in the JPG my red question marks - in some way these three places are connected with this wire-color-75-8-Orange-White soldered-on - (TRUELY soldered-on ?)
Some Theory - You made the Bedroom-Lamp-Test-Light - hook it on at the Coil on the PLAYER-RESET-RELAY - play some games and You will notice a difference "Game plays correct versus Game plays and the fault hows up". Lets line up four Players in a line - a nice line. Lets line up three players in a line - a bit shorter the line is, but still a nice line. Lets line up two players in a line - shorter the line is, but still a line. Please accept my definition - I line up one player in a line and call this a line. Well when it comes to stepping - every time the LAST*** Player in the line looses the ball: The Ball-Count-Unit must be stepped up AND the Player-Unit must be resetted and the Player-Unit is made to reset by the pulling-in of the Player-Reset-Relay - and this pulling-in does not work properly - I believe wire-color-75-8-Orange-White is somewhere broken-off, stays in place - sometimes - a bit of shaking, vibration - the broken-off end of the wire moves a bit - no connection. Greetings Rolf
P.S.: Last*** Player - stepping through the players and balls is much easyer to implement when the manufacturers (Williams and Bally) treated a One-Player-Game as a Multiplayer-Game consisting of one player making a line - so always when the last player in the line looses the ball in play then comes the stepping on the ball (up) and Player (resetting).

0Camelot-Work-02 (resized).jpg0Camelot-Work-02 (resized).jpg
#19 5 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Look at Your Player-Unit - see wire-91-2-Gray-Red (for Player-1) soldered-on (?), see wire-56-2-White-Brown (for Player-2) soldered-on (?), see wire-53-2-White-Yellow (for Player-3) soldered-on (?), see wire-75-8-Orange-White (for Player-4) soldered-on (?) TRUELY soldered-on ? Look-out on the Coin-Unit for this wire-color-75-8-Orange-White soldered-on - TRUELY soldered-on ? Look out on the swiches on the Ball-Return-Relay for this wire-color-75-8-Orange-White soldered-on - TRUELY soldered-on ? See in the JPG my red question marks - in some way these three places are connected with this wire-color-75-8-Orange-White soldered-on - (TRUELY soldered-on ?)

rolf,

Thank you so much for your analysis. Between you & HowardR's links, I'm getting better at understanding using jumpers to troubleshoot. So I started looking at all the areas you suggested checking solder connections. Then started the pin and the player reset wasn't working at all, going trough all players on ball 1 then doing nothing after player 4. So I started using jumpers on the wires you suggested starting from the player up unit, then the coin unit and so on with no luck. Then finally from the blue orange wire on the shoot again relay to the orange red wire on the SCM 1G, I found the fault. Then I remembered I cleaned and adjusted that switch, but apparently made it worse. So I adjusted it again and got it back working but still had the fault after a few games. Now I adjusted it very tight, maybe switch is bad, but I played some games without a fault. I will need to play a lot games to see if this was the problem from the start or if there's something else. I have recorded up to 14 games without a fault before so I will see how this goes. Also HowardR is giving me a call tomorrow so maybe he'll give me some more help with troubleshooting. I'll update with any progress.

Thanks again for all your help

#20 5 years ago

So it was the Score Motor 1G switch after all. I have played 50 games without a problem. It's amazing how finicky some switches can be.
Thanks again for all your help.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-camelot-has-me-scratching-my-head?hl=currieddog and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.