(Topic ID: 153586)

Bally Bon Voyage - score motor slow on cold start (fixed)

By xsvtoys

8 years ago


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  • 20 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by TheWiz
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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#1 8 years ago

When the game is started for the first time after sitting overnight or a few days, the score motor turns over slowly. It is easy to see because the score reels reset slowly. After the first time, it then picks up to a good speed from then on as you use it.

It is in the garage so it does get some temperature variation, but not much. But we did have a cold streak for a few days (I think it got into the 50s), and it does seem like it is worse when it is colder.

Interestingly, I have a Bally Monte Carlo right next to it, which is very similar and has the same score motor, and that thing always fires up like a rocket even after sitting overnight in the same "cold".

So my question is should I worry about it, and/or what could I do about it. Here is an end view of the motor and what I presume is a gear box. There don't appear to be any lubrication points and I know in general that lubing things is to be avoided, although not always.

I am not too thrilled with the idea of disassembling it to clean it, but if I have to do it, I will. Just afraid I will botch the job and kill it, and that would be bad.

score_motor_end_view_(resized).jpgscore_motor_end_view_(resized).jpg

#2 8 years ago

Hi xsvtoys
I write - but it is not a "real help". I like this document: http://rwatts.cdyn.com/download/intro%20to%20bally%20flipper%20games.pdf They say a couple of things about Lubrication - they say a couple of things about "Score-Motor".

I have looked in http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm -> http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm#lube and -> http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#motor - scroll down 6 to 10 pictures and text -> "Lubricating a Score-Motor" -> some words on lubing-GOTTLIEBs (not on Williams / Bally). Scroll down further -> Starting with "Fixing a burnt Motor" -> good information.

Sorry for "not really helping" - but the document (first link) is good.
Also (Williams) -> http://rwatts.cdyn.com/Machines/download_area.html -> Scroll down (below the middle, text "Be sure to check the Links page for additional ressources" -> the fifth link: http://rwatts.cdyn.com/download/wmseman.pdf , good information.
Greetings Rolf

#3 8 years ago

You may want to do the lube here...
if it starts out slow, it is prob due to the grease clotting and binding.
there are other factors also, but from what you describe, it sounds like typical old thick grease.
you can remove the gear box, and drill out the welds to open the box.
it shud contain 3 gears, not rocket science, but can be done.
a good cleaning, and a little super lube, and shud be good to go.
also, chk for grease leaking around shaft, indicates it has not been feelin too great.
a few small bolts and nuts, and back together again.

#4 8 years ago

You can also check the voltage of that scoremotor, it should be arround 50 volts.

#5 8 years ago

It turned out to be an easy fix. Just a matter of lubing my shaft

The drive shaft is spring loaded and in the rest position it is sticking out as shown by the red arrow. When the motor runs, it is pulled in and then it turns. You can press on this with your finger and push it in against the spring. When I did this, I noticed a bit of resistances, and it popped back slowly. In contrast, on the other machine it was nice and free and popped back immediately.

score_motor_closeup_shaft_(resized).jpgscore_motor_closeup_shaft_(resized).jpg

Its easy to loosen the hold down screw and raise up the hinged assembly for access. Then it is just 2 screws and the motor and shaft come right off.

score_motor_raised_(resized).jpgscore_motor_raised_(resized).jpg

That leaves behind the gearbox, and the hole on the left is where the shaft fits. The shaft has a gear on the end. Luckily, it looks like everything is good with the insides of this gearbox, because Dr_of_Style said it is sealed and would have to be drilled to get it open.

score_motor_gear_box_(resized).jpgscore_motor_gear_box_(resized).jpg

Here are the pieces for the bracket, rotor and shaft. Unfortunately I missed focus but you get the idea. It is pretty simple. I cleaned everything with alcohol and then put the thinnest possible amount of Super Lube on the shaft.

score_motor_rotor_assembly_(resized).jpgscore_motor_rotor_assembly_(resized).jpg

After putting everything back together, the finger test showed that now the shaft was moving freely against the spring. I waited overnight and tried a cold start - and it was back to full speed. Problem solved.

#6 8 years ago

Great thread my Wizard had the same issue and your fix worked like a charm

#7 8 years ago

That's great news. Probably any Bally of that vintage with that score motor could benefit from this pretty easy bit of maintenance. It is so much nicer to see those score reels fly when the game is started.

As a side note, just out of curiosity, I was doing some reading about electric motors, specifically "AC induction motors" which I believe this is. I was wondering why that shaft "pulls in" while the motor is running, then pops back out via that spring. There must be some reason it was made that way, maybe related to the startup torque or something. Maybe someone who knows will read this.

#8 8 years ago

Very nicely illustrated! Thanks, xsvtoys!

To try and answer your question above, as you mentioned, the blue drive-gear shaft with the threads will need to "drop out" to help the motor stop immediately. If this drive gear actually stuck in the drive position inside the motor, it would drift to a stop, and all the motor switches might not be in their normally functioning position. There's probably another braking device on this motor set-up, but it's not strong enough to stop the motor cams where they need to be.

Another symptom as a result of the problem you've found would have the motor drifting to a stop, but begin another revolution again as the run switch accidently makes from the motor cam drifting too far. The symptom you would notice then, is that the motor never stops turning. I've seen this a few times on Gottlieb Games, (although the motor set-up looks quite a bit different, underneath, you'll find the same type of drive gear used).

2 years later
#9 5 years ago

Thanks xsvtoys! Saved me some issues down the road on my Bally Amigo project... just going thru the score motor & that shaft was gummed up big time.

#10 5 years ago

Great news, it always fun to see another problem resolved.

4 weeks later
#11 5 years ago

I am having the same problem with my 74 twin win. I am done cleaning, but the tiny washer (just like in your pic) is broken. Any idea where I could get one? It seems like a plastic washer. Argh

2 years later
#12 3 years ago
Quoted from robodhisattva:

I am having the same problem with my 74 twin win. I am done cleaning, but the tiny washer (just like in your pic) is broken. Any idea where I could get one? It seems like a plastic washer. Argh

Did you ever source a washer? Mine is missing. Thanks!

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from robodhisattva:

I am having the same problem with my 74 twin win. I am done cleaning, but the tiny washer (just like in your pic) is broken. Any idea where I could get one? It seems like a plastic washer. Argh

Great post; was able to fix mine based on info here, thanks; You can use or craft any nylon washer as long as it holds and keeps the axle spring from touching the brass fitting on the outer portion of the enclosed gears.

6 months later
#14 2 years ago

I just fixed my Bon Voyage score motor by following this thread. Awesome. I also broke the small washer, so I used a nylon cable holder to make a new one. Cleaned the old grease off and now it spins normally. I believe this also fixed my ball count problem. The game would remove two balls each time the outhole relay triggered, and I traced this back to a slow score motor. Now it works great and the ball count adjusts perfect.

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3 months later
#15 2 years ago
Quoted from solderboy:

I just fixed my Bon Voyage score motor by following this thread. Awesome. I also broke the small washer, so I used a nylon cable holder to make a new one. Cleaned the old grease off and now it spins normally. I believe this also fixed my ball count problem. The game would remove two balls each time the outhole relay triggered, and I traced this back to a slow score motor. Now it works great and the ball count adjusts perfect.
[quoted image]

I actually cracked my old old Bally motor case, cleaned the old grease out of the nylon gears, re-lubed, and rebuilt.. my nylon washer fell out somewhere never to be found, so I recrafted one using your DIY nylon washer tip.. works great... another Bally score motor saved.

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from Dono:

I actually cracked my old old Bally motor case, cleaned the old grease out of the nylon gears, re-lubed, and rebuilt.. my nylon washer fell out somewhere never to be found, so I recrafted one using your DIY nylon washer tip.. works great... another Bally score motor saved.

Cool!
Did you get any pics, or can you post some more details on how you did that job? Such as, how did you get the case open(drilled out the rivets?) And how you put it back together (screws and nuts)?

I think I’m going to need to get mine opened up, even though when I originally posted this it did help it out a lot, over time it slows down again, especially when it is cold, and I’m presuming there is some old hardened grease in there. But I’m a bit afraid, because if you botch this job, there is no easy way to get a replacement.

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from xsvtoys:

Cool!
Did you get any pics, or can you post some more details on how you did that job? Such as, how did you get the case open(drilled out the rivets?) And how you put it back together (screws and nuts)?
I think I’m going to need to get mine opened up, even though when I originally posted this it did help it out a lot, over time it slows down again, especially when it is cold, and I’m presuming there is some old hardened grease in there. But I’m a bit afraid, because if you botch this job, there is no easy way to get a replacement.

Sorry I didn't take any pics. Basically what's been described to get the case separated from the other motor hardware. I used a drill press to remove the 4 rivets - makes that job easier. Once all 4 rivets are drilled out, I used a sharp tool to SLOWLY open the case... not taking pix is a bad idea here since after cleaning I almost botched putting the 4 gears together in the proper manner. just be careful opening the case. Go slowly and hit each corner to separate. Once it's cracked take a pic of the inside gear configuration... removing the nylon gears is simple, no other parts other than the gears to worry about. Clean the old gears and gear box halves with kerosene or your choice of grease dissolver. Re-lube the gears w/ super lube or similar. Use some very small screws/nuts/lock washers. These must be small as there's very little clearance for the screw head/lock washer and nut. I have a bunch I get from my local ACE hardware store. Let us know if you have further questions.

#18 2 years ago

When reassembling open frame motors after the rivet ends have been drilled out you can often tap the remaining rivet shafts so they can hold flat head machine screws. I wonder if the same approach would work for riveted gear boxes.

/Mark

#19 2 years ago
Quoted from MarkG:

When reassembling open frame motors after the rivet ends have been drilled out you can often tap the remaining rivet shafts so they can hold flat head machine screws. I wonder if the same approach would work for riveted gear boxes.
/Mark

This might work with the proper tap... that being said the ridge of the case prevents a wider width screw so much care needs to be taken to ensure the screw head clears that ridge.

4 months later
#20 1 year ago

Here is the inside of my Nip-It score motor. Note that the two smaller gears are not in the exact position they need to be in but orientation is correct. The “pins” in the lid will go through the gears and into holes underneath the gears to get them aligned properly.

C6F6D8C1-0147-47EC-94D7-98EFCB285D3A (resized).jpegC6F6D8C1-0147-47EC-94D7-98EFCB285D3A (resized).jpeg
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