(Topic ID: 101732)

Bally Black Belt: Almost nobody has played, limited demand?

By stevevt

9 years ago


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  • 63 posts
  • 22 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by wayout440
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 63 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 9 years ago

I have an opportunity to pick up a Bally Black Belt. It's a pretty rare game. Only 600 made. I've never seen one in person.

I've read all the Pinside threads on this game, watched all 2.5 minutes of grainy Youtube footage the internet has to offer, and read all 3 reviews at IPDB.

The general idea is that I'll have it for a short while, then one of the Sanctum guys will buy it from me. This is all pending being able to get the game for a reasonable price. If the Sanctum theoretical deal falls through, I'm interested in being able to sell it for roughly what I pay. In other words, I'm looking to avoid overpaying.

Lots of people here seem to think $500 is what it's worth, at least a few months ago. A few are closer to $800. From the limited research I've been able to do, $700 seems reasonable. Not sure I'll be able to get it for that price, so I'm wondering what might be reasonable. Or if I need to give up my life (or 3-day) long dream of owning this title.

Any opinions are welcome.

Thanks.

#2 9 years ago

I have it we love the karate chop flipper at the top. I just beat the built in 4 million high score the other day and have had the machine for over 4 months. Once you get to black belt not much more to do but I have only done that a handful of times. I put a cool party led bulb in it from home depot that I bought for 6.00 it makes the guy on the BG change colors and doesnt add any glare on the glass. I wish mine was in better shape but I only payed 200.00 for it. Mine plays 100% just doesnt have a nice PF or BG but I do have another PF for it but that one is only about 25%-35% better than the one I have in it so not sure if I will do the swap or not. I wish I could get a new PF and BG and this would be a keeper for me for sure. I dont think if you pay more than 700 you would get your money back out of it. I know only 600 were made and I think half of them got exported as karate fight overseas so I bet there isnt more than 150 or so left in the US working if that. The guy I bought the spare PF from told me he gutted at least three of them over the years. I can take some nice pics and a video if you want to see more. Here is my link to the thread with the color changing bulb.
Joe
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cool-led-backbox-lighting-effect-for-older-pins-with-regular-lightbulb

#3 9 years ago

Thanks! I'd love to see pix and some clear video. I know the upper playfield is unique, but I still don't quite understand the flow and how it's layed out. I assume it would clear things up if I saw someone loop those ramps.

#4 9 years ago

Good game, rare find!

A nice lineup would be composed of
- Bally Black Belt
- Zaccaria Blackbelt
- Inder Bushido

#5 9 years ago

Upon further negotiation, we're down to $750. The plastics look good from the pictures, so that's a plus at least. Average wear, seems like. See below.

Opinions on this deal?

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#6 9 years ago

I'd try to get it lower, because it's going to be hard to get $750 back out of it when you sell.

#7 9 years ago

Agreed. We might be at the bottom dollar point of the negotiations, unfortunately.

The biggest thing I'm worried about isn't having to sell it for a bit less than I paid. It's having to put more than a small bit into it to get it playing 100% (despite, of course, the seller saying everything works), *then* selling it for a bit less than I paid.

Despite all this, I'm still on the fence.

#8 9 years ago
Quoted from stevevt:

The biggest thing I'm worried about isn't having to sell it for a bit less than I paid. It's having to put more than a small bit into it to get it playing 100%

Have you ever bought a 30 year old game that you did not dump a few hundred dollars into to get working 100%?

There is always hidden damage, missing stuff, strange jerryrigging that you missed when looking the game over.

And if you are buying this game sight unseen, plan on $300-400 in repairs somehow...

#9 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Have you ever bought a 30 year old game that you did not dump a few hundred dollars into to get working 100%?
There is always hidden damage, missing stuff, strange jerryrigging that you missed when looking the game over.
And if you are buying this game sight unseen, plan on $300-400 in repairs somehow...

Good point.

Is it wrong that I still want it?

#10 9 years ago
Quoted from stevevt:

Is it wrong that I still want it?

No. I did the same with my Stern Catacomb. Quite rare on this side of the Atlantic. I know I overpaid it, but the pleasure of owning a rare pin, if only briefly (because it is not a keeper in my eyes !!), oversets the lost $... up to a point.

#11 9 years ago

I used to own one. Actually the first pinball machine that I owned. Miss it.
Getting to black belt is fun. The upper ramp "volley" from flipper to flipper is fun also.

I don't see a problem with not getting all of you money back out of a game if it brings joy to you and you have fun with it.

Everyone spends money on useless stuff all of the time, but we are in the hobby because this is what we enjoy.

#12 9 years ago
Quoted from stevevt:

Good point.
Is it wrong that I still want it?

Nope, the fact that you still want it means you need to go buy it.

Carefully check things like the ramp that can not be obtained at any price.

It's fun taking games to shows that most people have never seen, let alone played.

#13 9 years ago

I've decided I'm going to buy it. Or at least drive the 5 hours round trip to see if it's close to the advertised condition. Thanks for the advice, guys. Keep your eyes out for a Bally Black Belt Club - Members Only thread in which I pump up the game, if I buy it.

#14 9 years ago

That center plastic does not look original I had to replace mine with a piece of lexan. other than that looks pretty good. Here are pics of mine I took the other night. I also have a video of the volley back and forth at the top.

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#15 9 years ago

I'd pay $750 all day any day for one. You can't even get a Bad Girls for under 1k around here...

Would love a Black Belt/Dragonfist/Blackbelt lineup

#16 9 years ago

So, is the kickout hole up the center the "kick him in the nuts" shot"? Interesting looking game. Just get it, you will regret passing on it later.

#17 9 years ago

Yes you do both ramps then the six blinking targets in his crotch area then hit him in the nuts last for an extra ball. Rinse and repeat until you get black belt! It does have a cool first shot where you have to plunge the ball just hard enough to get from 1,000 to 25,000 points or if you can do it just right you will get an extra ball that way too (very hard to do). Ateach belt color you advance the playfield scoring from 2x to 3x to 4x and then 5x for black belt not easy to do only got black belt a handful of times since I have owned it. The only thing I don't like about it is the out lanes have no rubber to help save the ball you only have the wood side rails and the balls don't bounce of of those to well.
Joe
Joe

#18 9 years ago

Thanks for the volley video.

I just got it home and set up. Very smooth transaction, other than the seller not speaking any English and me not speaking any French. His wife generally translated for us, so it all worked out. The game was as represented or better -- it needs *nothing* and is already playing great. OK, one bulb needs to be replaced. I'd also like to get some brighter GI -- maybe even dreaded LEDs just to get it a bit less dark. All GI is working, there's just not a lot of it.

One question for owners: How's your volume? This one is maxed out but still relatively quiet. I probably don't need it much louder, but it might be nice to have the option.

Quoted from cyroute:

That center plastic does not look original I had to replace mine with a piece of lexan. other than that looks pretty good. Here are pics of mine I took the other night. I also have a video of the volley back and forth at the top.

#19 9 years ago

Didn't get a chance to add my take earlier, so I'll add it now.

Some games are such steaming piles of poo-poo that there's a reason they are rare. For some reason I never got to play this game, or for that matter very many of the Bally games of this era with this style of alphanumeric display (12 segment, I think?). Having said that, this game looks rather interesting and $750 sounds like a good deal for it.

#20 9 years ago

I'm late to the party, but...

It's so unique, I'm ecstatic that I got a HUO one - probably the ONLY HUO one out there now. The parts make me nervous enough that I bought a second parted playfield for it. I still need to get it working though, but honestly, for $750 totally working, I think you could have done a lot worse.

#21 9 years ago
Quoted from stevevt:

One question for owners: How's your volume? This one is maxed out but still relatively quiet.

If I remember correctly, there should be a volume pot on the sound board in the backbox.

#22 9 years ago

Speaking of my game totally working...

Anyone have a PDF of the owner's manual? It's not up on IPDB for whatever reason.

I was poking around and appear to have blown FU8. Note that it's one of the stubby 25 mm long (around 1") ones, rather than the more common 1.25" length. Also, right before I blew this fuse by poking around, neither left flipper was flipping. Thus why I was poking. I'm not sure what's up with the flippers, but FU1 appears to be fine. I'm using this as a reference for now:
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally_6803#Fuses_and_Test_Points

I don't suppose I'll be able to find the fuse I need at, say, a local auto parts store. Right?

Thanks.

#23 9 years ago

Steve,
There are two settings for the volume on the sound board in the back box pic below and inside the coin door standard volume pot make sure you check both. My volume isnt crazy loud but i would say it keeps up with my other pins. I think I have the first 10 pages or so out of the manual PM me you email address and I can send it to you. I dont know if it will help with the fuse issue.
Joe

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#24 9 years ago
Quoted from cyroute:

Steve,
There are two settings for the volume on the sound board in the back box pic below and inside the coin door standard volume pot make sure you check both. My volume isnt crazy loud but i would say it keeps up with my other pins. I think I have the first 10 pages or so out of the manual PM me you email address and I can send it to you. I dont know if it will help with the fuse issue.
Joe

Thanks, and PM sent.

#25 9 years ago

Wow...some Blackbelt talk.I have a Blackbelt that has a super nice PF and a perfect BG but the cabinet has a crack in the side like it tipped over or something,that's how it was when I aquired it.
Its a super rare hard to find pin.I'll probably hold on to it for a while.Its a generic cabinet so it won't be to hard to replace it.
I wonder how many are actually left that are still working?

#26 9 years ago
Quoted from Elevatorman:

I wonder how many are actually left that are still working?

I think they're all in this thread.

Seriously, I've never seen one at any shows, locations, or friends collections. I ordered the fuse I need online because I couldn't find it locally. I should have it early next week. I'm strongly considering adding the color-changing backbox LED, too.

#27 9 years ago

I need to do the same and also maybe put LEDS in the whole game.I've got a lot of other better games that keep me busy tho.

#28 9 years ago

If people have suggestions for LEDs to make my GI brighter but not obnoxious, I'm all ears.

#29 9 years ago

I own a black belt. The game for me is quite a lot of fun. I love you it's catchy theme and funky music. The shots are kind of tough in the upper ramp with the karate chop flipper. I spoke with Greg Freres personally about this game and 50% of them in deed were shipped overseas as karate fight. My cabinet is not perfect but very presentable. My back glass is mitt. I've replaced the back glass bulb with an LED. My playfield is in average condition. As far as the manual gives I was lucky enough to get one through the pay it forward thread here on pins side. I also got a complete spare set of non-broken plastics. I was ecstatic to get them because they are hard to find. I'm thinking about removing my playfield in clearcoating it. I know it's only in average condition but I would still like to preserve it for as long as I can.

I love the gameplay. I almost wish Someone would do a modern adaptation with a more in-depth rule set and cool video mode. Just as a warning though don't leave the song playing for too long, otherwise you will catch yourself mimicking it. As far as how the game will look with LEDs I am not sure because mine still has the original incandescence in it. I think 750 was a more than fair price for a kitschy cool game.

#30 9 years ago

Hey Kato can you scan that manual into a pdf format and send it to those of us that don't have a complete one!
Thanks,
Joe

#31 9 years ago
Quoted from katoskave:

My back glass is mitt.

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#32 9 years ago
Quoted from stevevt:

Speaking of my game totally working...
Anyone have a PDF of the owner's manual? It's not up on IPDB for whatever reason.
I was poking around and appear to have blown FU8. Note that it's one of the stubby 25 mm long (around 1") ones, rather than the more common 1.25" length. Also, right before I blew this fuse by poking around, neither left flipper was flipping. Thus why I was poking. I'm not sure what's up with the flippers, but FU1 appears to be fine. I'm using this as a reference for now:
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally_6803#Fuses_and_Test_Points
I don't suppose I'll be able to find the fuse I need at, say, a local auto parts store. Right?
Thanks.

OK, so I just replaced FU8, and...
nothing.

There is power at the wall, but flipping the game power switch does nothing. I took the cover off of the switch to see of there's something similar to a line fuse, but I'm not seeing anything like that between the power cord and the switch. Any ideas on where I should start to figure this one out?

Thanks!

#33 9 years ago
Quoted from cyroute:

Steve,
There are two settings for the volume on the sound board in the back box pic below and inside the coin door standard volume pot make sure you check both. My volume isnt crazy loud but i would say it keeps up with my other pins. I think I have the first 10 pages or so out of the manual PM me you email address and I can send it to you. I dont know if it will help with the fuse issue.
Joe

Thanks again for all this info. The sound board volume was all the way down. I cranked it up and can now just use the scroller pot in the coin door to adjust as needed.

#34 9 years ago

That crotch shot is worth at least $200.

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#35 9 years ago

that reverted flipper shot is insane. I enjoyed playing it

#36 9 years ago

A few updates:

1. Just got to black belt today for the first time. Woohoo! Only 3.1 million GC score, but I think I only earned 1 EB in that game, and I know for sure I drained pretty much right after I got black belt 5x scoring.

2. Last night, I changed the backbox CFL bulb to the color changing (party) LED from cyroute's thread:

Not only does the backglass look awesome, but because it's much dimmer than with the (too bright) CFL, it significantly reduced the glare at the top of the playfield glass. Now I can actually see all of the upper ramp shots I'm missing. I can understand wanting to keep the game original, but it's a big improvement IMO.

3. One of the coolest things I've noticed is that the music actually changes when you get the different belts. As if the PF multipliers weren't enough motivation.

4. The skill shot is fun, but I wish the highest values were a bit higher -- considering how much harder they are to get. At least there's an EB at the top -- but only on ball 3, right?

#37 9 years ago

Of course we want this at the sanctum fool. Hand it over!

-Jim

#38 9 years ago

Way back in the days before they had all of these fancy LED's, I would spray black paint on the front side of the fluorescent bulb to reduce the glare.

#39 9 years ago

Hey Steve I think you can get an extra ball on every ball with the first skill shot. I know I have gotten one on one of the first two balls. I was wondering if on the 3rd ball does yours only have the EB lit before you plunge the ball? Not sure why mine has that but seems to work the same as the 1st and 2nd ball. My high score is around 4.1 million I worked hard for that and I have only ever been over 3 million twice before that. Not having any rubbers to bounce off of in the two outlanes makes it hard to save balls going that way.

Glad you like the LED bulb.
Joe

#40 9 years ago
Quoted from cyroute:

Hey Steve I think you can get an extra ball on every ball with the first skill shot. I know I have gotten one on one of the first two balls. I was wondering if on the 3rd ball does yours only have the EB lit before you plunge the ball? Not sure why mine has that but seems to work the same as the 1st and 2nd ball.

On ball 3, the Extra Ball insert on the top right is lit. I know for sure you can get this skill shot extra ball on ball 3, because a friend of mine did it yesterday. I've never gotten an EB on ball 1 or 2, but I don't know if that's by design or coincidence. I can try to take the glass off and figure it out at some point. Maybe it's a software setting difference between our games.

Are you saying that your EB insert is not lit on ball 1 and 2, but the EB is still available?

Quoted from cyroute:

My high score is around 4.1 million I worked hard for that and I have only ever been over 3 million twice before that. Not having any rubbers to bounce off of in the two outlanes makes it hard to save balls going that way.

4.1 million? Nice! Points are really hard to come by in this game, at least until you get a bunch of belts and then have at least a couple long balls. It also helps when you don't get the body shot when you still need to finish the legs.

EDIT: I just took the glass off and can confirm that the skill shot extra ball is NOT available on ball 1 or 2 on my machine.

#41 9 years ago

Another question for the owners out there:

Can you confirm that the bonus multiplier really multiplies the bonus? Mine registers 2x, 3x, etc. on the playfield (with a nice light show), but doesn't seem to double, triple, etc. the end of ball bonus. My guess is that everybody will say they have the same bug, or there's a software setting that fixes this problem.

#42 9 years ago

I can now verify the extra ball only works on the 3rd ball. I must have been drinking to much when I thought I got it on ball one or two. I will check the end of ball bonus but i think that only gets multiplied by hitting the drop targets and getting 2x,3x,4,5x that way.
Joe

#43 9 years ago
Quoted from cyroute:

I can now verify the extra ball only works on the 3rd ball. I must have been drinking to much when I thought I got it on ball one or two. I will check the end of ball bonus but i think that only gets multiplied by hitting the drop targets and getting 2x,3x,4,5x that way.
Joe

Good to know the skill shot extra ball works as expected.

I know that getting the six drop targets spells KARATE and *lights* the next bonus multiplier. However, on my game, the lit bonus multiplier seems to have no effect on the awarded bonus.

#44 9 years ago

Steve I just got done playing my multiplier is working on the end of ball bonus I had 18k and 2x so it gave me 36k working as expected.
Joe

#45 9 years ago
Quoted from cyroute:

Steve I just got done playing my multiplier is working on the end of ball bonus I had 18k and 2x so it gave me 36k working as expected.
Joe

Thanks. I'll double check mine with the glass off today.

#46 9 years ago

I just checked with the glass off and the bonus multiplier works as it should.

I'm pretty sure what threw me off is the way the bonus lights work -- when you have 30 k in bonus, the 30, 20, and 10 lights will all be on*. Looking at the playfield, I was expecting to get 60 k times the bonus multiplier in that situation.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is an usual way for the bonus lights to work.

On the plus side, the math is working properly and I at least know how to read the lower playfield now.

*And etc. for 20, 40, and 50 -- just using 30 because it's the best one to illustrate my confusion.

#47 9 years ago

Yet another gameplay update.

I just got to Black Belt 5x for the second or third time ever. This time I had a longer ball after getting there, so I noticed that you can only complete the lit body part, and the lights strobe between the 5 parts -- like the Attack from Mars super jackpot. I got 3 out of 5, but now of course I'm wondering what happens when you get all 5. Big points? Super Duper Black Belt? Multiball? Just kidding on that last one.

Anyone know?

#48 9 years ago

Update #2: Got Black Belt 5x again, and finished all 5 shots. The special lit in the outlane and I scored somewhere between 250 k and 300 k including 5x. So there might not be much extra in it other than the difficulty.

Then, on the same ball, I finished all 5 shots again. Same deal, except no lit special, and the display said this:

YOU ARE VERY VERY GOOD

I want to think that it didn't say it the first time, but I'm not sure. I also want to believe there were two "VERY"s there, but again -- not 100% sure.

4.6 million, new GC. And because I came over here to type this, it's in there as AAA. So, let it be known that AAA IS VERY VERY GOOD.

#49 9 years ago

Dam 4.6mil is a great game and you have only had it for less than two weeks. What is the angle of yours? I think I'm around 6 degrees.
Joe

#50 9 years ago

Mine is 5.5 degrees. I should try making it steeper. At some point, steepness makes it harder to drain out the outlanes, but I probably have a way to go before that point.

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