Bally Bingo Showtime - Shutter wont stop resetting


By oldbingoidiot

10 months ago


Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by NoQuarters
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

Find

Search this topic for posts matching certain words or written by a specific Pinsider. Or both!




Linked Games



Topic Gallery

One image has been uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

ScreenHunter_10 Jan. 10 17.10 (resized).jpg


#1 10 months ago

Hello all. I have a Bally Showtime that was purchased from a collector in non working order a few years ago. After cleaning contacts, replacing an armature, a few minor adjustments and a few choice words the machine came to life and actually was working 100% for several months. Now when the unit is switched on the shutter board cycles and the first ball loads and the backglass has the tilt lit. The machine loads all 7 balls to be played. They all settle into a hole and nothing else happens. As best i can figure this is all the normal process following a tilt situation. This is where the problem starts, when you trip the coin switch the shutter opens and the balls drop and the first ball loads into the chute but the shutter just continues to cycle open, close, open, close...this continues until the machine is powered off. I have checked all the switches and contacts on the playfield and they all appear to be operating correctly. Just not sure where to look next.

#2 10 months ago

I'd start by taking a look at the Tilt relay. Is it pulled in all the time? If so, there are 3 things that power it on the schematic - the tilt switches, the inertia tilt and a timer unit switch. I'd also check the shutter motor cam switches 4a and 4c and shutter motor carryover cam 1b.

Shutter motor switches can often get tweaked if the playfield isn't lifted carefully.

#3 10 months ago

Make sure there are 8 balls in the game.....not 7

#4 10 months ago

Ok. First thanks for the quick replies. There are all eight balls in the game. I checked the entire shutter unit and all the disks seem to be in good shape and the switches all look to be operating as they are supposed to. The Anti-Cheat relay seems to be acting like it may have partial power. The arm is open when I restart the game but there is some current on the coil because if I put a little pressure on it, it locks to the coil. I didn't have my volt meter with me last night but will check to see what the current reading is tonight. When the anti-cheat relay locks in, the Red Button relay releases and the tilt light goes off. The schematic shows both an anti-cheat relay and a tilt relay. I did not see the tilt relay in the head unit last night but there was a little football game starting and I got sidetracked. I am not sure if this helps but while the machine is continuously resetting, I can tilt the machine and it still just keeps resetting. Tilting the machine doesn't kick it off. I will find the tilt relay tonight and check it and report back. Thank you for the help.

#5 10 months ago

Most guys disable the 'anti-cheat relay'........ by unsoldering the hot coil lead, and wedging the latching arm ON.
I also undo the tilt bob mechanism so the Bingo does tilt....... but that's me!
The shutter mechanism is a Big 'PITA'...... I have intermittent problems all the time.
I would close the shutter by hand, and see if you can play a full game. The switch setting on the shutter cams are
always a problem to set correctly.
*** This is how the shutter should close. Your Timer unit may not be stepping Up. See diagram below.

ScreenHunter_10 Jan. 10 17.10 (resized).jpg

#6 10 months ago

The anti-cheat is operating as expected - it should be able to latch if there are no replays on the register. It is initially powered through the start relay, which pulls in with your first coin. If you don't cut the power to the game, then the anti-cheat will remain powered and latched throughout gameplay.

So that behavior, at least, is normal.

For your shutter motor constantly running - it does sound like it's dropping to tilt (but that's normal on first power up).

Your shutter motor will open when the first coin is dropped, and remain open until your first ball leaves the gate. There are a few switches to check on the shutter and under the playfield.

First, the switch closest to the shutter motor is the motor runout switch. If that never finds 'home' then the shutter will never stop moving. Another is the set of switches actuated by the shutter board itself on the bottom right side of the playfield. If they are not fully changing state, or the metal arm has become a bit loose, then the shutter will not sense that it is fully open or closed.

I would suspect those first as the other tilt-like behaviors sound normal.

Also:

Quoted from Toyguy:

Shutter motor switches can often get tweaked if the playfield isn't lifted carefully.

This is absolutely true. You may have unintentionally borked up some switches just lifting the playfield or setting it down.

#7 10 months ago

Check the coin switch on the front door....When using your hand rather then coins sometimes people push the switch down to far and it sticks. That causes the shutter motor to keep resetting.

#8 10 months ago

***** I also undo the tilt bob mechanism so the Bingo does tilt....... but that's me! *********
Should say : " so the Bingo doesn't tilt "
I don't want to ruin a big game by Tiliting my own Bingo........ LoL.

#9 10 months ago

Ok, I have checked all the switches mentioned and they all look to be working correctly.

This is where I am: I power up the unit and it zeros the counter and sets to TILT as it should.

This is where things get interesting. I trip the coin relay, shutter motor begins to continuously cycle. The relay stack (bank) on the rear door is continuously resetting also. (Tilt relay is in this relay stack.) The start relay is latched with 50 volts. The anti-cheat relay has 30 volts but is NOT latched. According to the manual and schematic these relays are 50v to 30v minimum. The 30 volts won't latch the relay but will hold it, so I manually latch the relay. Tilt light goes off and the machine stops cycling, but the machine will not play because the Control Unit has not cycled.

Now to the Control Unit: The first two disks are spinning as they should but the index coil on the third disk apparently has not energized (or is bad) to allow the unit to step to the first position. I can manually trip the index arm and the game steps the odds to the first position and the game plays perfectly. (Doesn't sound like much but that took a little over three hours. I probably won't get back to the machine until Sunday)

My thoughts as of now are: Trace the circuit from the Control Unit index coil back to the start relay and see what I find there. My understanding from the manual, videos and schematic is that the coin switch energizes the start relay, then the start relay energizes the Control Unit index coil which in turn allows the unit to step and breaks the start relay circuit allowing the start relay to unlatch until another coin is dropped or the red button is pressed. (If you have credits)

I will post back with what I find. Thanks again for all the help. PS: Sorry for the long winded post.

#10 10 months ago

Timer Unit stepper.....
1. I would verify this unit is working correctly. Clean it and verify it steps-up and resets by hand.
2. Verify it is being energized during game play.
3. Ball Lift cam switch 2a ( E7) energizes Timer unit coil ( A8).

#11 10 months ago

30V at anti-cheat is incorrect. That is tied to EB trip relay #1 and CU cam 5 switch C (third from the bottom).

If you don't have 50V through that circuit, your anti-cheat will not latch.

You trip bank continuously resetting is because your shutter motor keeps opening. That hits switch 3B on the shutter which will fire the reset coil on the bank.

Timer unit comes into play when it lifts the first ball. I believe your problem is before the timer unit.

Your start relay should not be holding in in normal operation. That might be caused by a stuck switch in the replay reset relay (in the same area as the start and anti-cheat).

Sorry for the delay in responding, I must've forgotten to hit submit!!

#12 10 months ago

30V at anti-cheat is incorrect. That is tied to EB trip relay #1 and CU cam 5 switch C (third from the bottom).
******************************************************************************************
Yes..... you should be reading close to 50VAC. across that coil.
I'm sure your 50VAC output from the transformer is ok, you can check it at the transformer.
@ see link below for measuring points...... I have a reading of 52VAC with an input voltage of 123VAC.
As stated above..... you may have a voltage drop at the E.B. trip relay#1 . It is a S.P.D.T. switch(L2) they can be
trouble. You may have a POOR connection there causing a voltage drop; that contact should be closed when
the relay is not energized.
Also check that the switch contact at Cu cam 5 is clean and making good contact.
*** I forgot to add...... verify that 10amp fuse is 100% good, and the fuse holder has a tight fit. a partially blown
fuse and a loose fuse holder will drive you batty.
https://bingo.cdyn.com/techno/readschem/schemblock.html

#13 10 months ago

I wouldn't worry about the 30V on the anti-cheat. If you are just measuring across the terminals when the relay is unpowered, you will see "phantom voltage".  The wire 78-4 end of the coil isn't connected to anything, so your meter has no valid reference point to determine a voltage value and the tiny current flow induced by the meter will produce a reading.

if you want to check the anti-cheat closing circuit, manually lift switch stack 5 on the timer cams and it should power the relay. If it doesn't, you can measure the voltage across the coil while holding up the stack or wedging some folded paper under the stack. If less that 52V, you can probe the circuit up thru CU 5C and the two EB trip relay switches to find the bad connection.

showtime (at least some of them) has a circuit at schem I7 that will close the shutter if the selection feature unit is not reset and the anti-cheat relay is not powered. If the selection feature unit open at zero switch is not opening (unit not resetting, zero switch stuck closed) and the anti-cheat is not powered, it's normal for the shutter to close.

if the start relay is staying powered because the timer cams aren't spinning, it's normal for the shutter to open.

so, check the selection feature unit is resetting all the way and the switch is open at reset. That should stop the shutter from closing. Then deal with why the timer cams index coil isn't powering...a switch on those cams powers the anti-cheat. If the mixer latch coil isn't powering either, the problem is not the coils.

don't forget to check the plug connections between head and cabinet/playfield - ideally unplug the game from the wall, yank the plugs, clean off the black crud from the inside/outside sections of the pins (the pins only contact the sockets in a couple spots), and squeeze along the length of the sockets hard between thumb and finger to bend in the tabs a little. You want plug insertion to require a bit of oomph to ensure a reliable connection.

#14 10 months ago

Ha! Left out the timer cam index switches because 'surely' those weren't the problem. Thanks @baldtwit!

And regarding the plugs - yet another assumption on my part. Be sure to follow the above advice all the way through and you will find your problem.

#15 10 months ago

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. I will check each one. This is what I have found so far today. As stated, I am not getting 50 volts to the Control Unit Index Coil. Following the schematic, I have 50 volts on the start relay coil switch "C". When the start coil is energized, the 50 volts goes from switch "C" to the Shutter Motor Cam switch "5D". By the schematic it looks as though "5D" feeds the 50 volts to the Control Unit Index Coil. Since I am not getting 50 volts to the index coil, I think I have two possibilities. Either 1) A bad contact/switch at "5D" or a bad wire. I am going to disassemble the switch stack to start and will post back what I find.

1 week later
#16 9 months ago

Problem Fixed!

OK this is what I found. The Start Relay Coil was closing as required and sending 50 volts to the Shutter Motor Control switch 5D on wire 13-3. Switch 5D on the Shutter Motor Control was opening one side and closing the other side as required. However, the contacts that closed to send the 50 volts to the Control Unit Timer Cam Coil on wire 93-2 were pitted so bad from arcing that although they were closed they were not making contact. After filing the contacts with an ignition points file (great little tool), I put the stack back together and adjusted the reeds so the bottom switch is NC and the top switch is NO. I put the machine back together and she plays just like new. I just need to find a replacement backglass but with only 450 of these made that may be impossible.

Thank you so much everyone for all the help and encouragement.

#17 9 months ago

Good job getting your bingo back up and running.
Try this link for your backglass.

http://www.coos.net/bingo_e/

#18 9 months ago
Quoted from Vic_Camp:

Good job getting your bingo back up and running.
Try this link for your backglass.
http://www.coos.net/bingo_e/

Wow - with Mirror lines too !

Coos is also a great site just to look at all the great looking machines !

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 52.50
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
From: $ 42.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 99.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 48.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
€ 379.00
Displays
GermanGamingSupplies.com
$ 9.95
From: $ 95.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
$ 69.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 29.25
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
The MOD Couple
$ 79.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
£ 22.00
$ 27.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 69.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
£ 59.00
$ 46.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
From: $ 195.00
From: $ 17.00
Apparel - Unisex
Double Danger Pinball
$ 160.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
$ 159.99
$ 12.00
Playfield - Protection
Pin Mods
From: $ 199.99
$ 6.95
$ 5,699.00
Pinball Machine
Flip N Out Pinball

Reply

Note: This is an old thread. The last post was made to it 290 days ago. Resurrecting old threads is not necessarily a bad thing, if you think the topic is still relevant and/or your post is beneficial to it (e.g. following up on something). In other cases, it might be better to create a new topic.

Wanna join the discussion? Sign up for a Pinside account, or log in if you already have an account.


Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside