(Topic ID: 219697)

Bally Ballerina@ 1948 version

By JKnPA

5 years ago


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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by JKnPA
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    #1 5 years ago

    Anyone have a schematic for this machine ?
    I copied the link for the schematic at 'IPDB', but it is too blurry to read.
    The relay in the Backbox does not stay latched ON when the game is started. The game only stays ON
    if I jump-out the relay switch.
    Any help with the schematic or game operation would be appreciated.
    john

    #3 5 years ago

    I believe I fixed that problem....... not sure if it was caused by the problem noted below .
    I was having a problem getting good contact on the Tilt switch that is normally closed. It is the switch on the
    far right side of the schematic that goes to the Flippers. I had to voltage going to the Flipper coil.
    Why is the 6V. common coming down from above going to that switch and the flipper coil. I would think it
    would go thru the 'shuffle' switch.
    Right now it is up and running, but the Timer motor keeps running. I assume it should be OFF.....Yes ?

    ScreenHunter_95 Jun. 20 16.58 (resized).jpgScreenHunter_95 Jun. 20 16.58 (resized).jpg

    #5 5 years ago

    I always thought the 50V. ( hot) was being switched from top to bottom on the schematic, and all
    the coil commons( bottom) were tied together.
    In this case then BOTH Commons ( Red and Blue arrows) are being switched ???
    Yes its a Timer unit with multiple switches on it; mostly for the Bonus Unit.
    I will get a picture for you later today.

    #6 5 years ago

    The Timer Unit............... I checked all the switches, they look like they are set ok.

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    #7 5 years ago

    added Bonus unit..

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    #9 5 years ago
    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    The hot side of the coils is drawn on the bottom.
    The first photos are of the score motor, not the timer unit.
    The score motor controls functions like kickout. It is the only motor shown on the schematic.

    ............................................................................................................................................
    OOOOH........ then this label is Wrong ??????
    So it should run for a few minutes then shutoff ?

    IMG_2892 (resized).JPGIMG_2892 (resized).JPG
    #10 5 years ago

    This switch is mounted to the frame of the 10M assy.
    Both switch contacts are closed.
    There is nothing there to change the switch from closed to open. Am I missing something for this switch assy. ?
    The left side switch contacts when closed cause the Score motor to run. If the switch is forced open, the motor
    doesn't run.
    Any thoughts on this switch assy.
    ***** When running...... it doesn't stop , it keeps running.

    IMG_2898 (resized).JPGIMG_2898 (resized).JPG
    #12 5 years ago

    I had it running ok a few days back, but the motor was continuously Running.
    There was an O-ring (Bumper contact) touching, so it wanted to keep scoring. I re-adjusted that so it was not
    touching.
    Now..... the 1K stepper is cycling for about 1 min., then the machine shuts off.
    I don't think any kickout is firing, but the 'DU' and "ET' lites on the playfield are Flashing.
    I didn't see anything touching under the playfield, but I guess something is.
    I didn't see anything broken on the 10K stepper that would actuate that switch for the Motor.
    Do you ???

    IMG_2897 (resized).JPGIMG_2897 (resized).JPG
    #13 5 years ago

    I inserted paper spacers in the switch contacts so they remain OPEN.
    When I do that...... 'Ballerina' plays.....
    If anyone knows how this switch should function........ Chime in !
    Some Pics included.......Front door and Right side of Backcase paint issue!
    *** White lite on backglass is outside light coming thru backdoor, not flaking.
    Overall the Backglass is flaking very badly.

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    #15 5 years ago

    Maybe. There's a spot on the rim of the 10k stepper gear at about 8 o'clock. Could that be a pin that has sheared off?
    ...................................................
    I think you are correct Sir. It is completely smooth, so I didn't even notice it. It will line up at 6 o'clock when the
    stepper wheel resets to Zero at about 3 o'clock. See my attachment.
    I made the attachment before I saw the rest of you post.......
    ..............................................................................................................

    At reset the 10k/10M stepper gear rotates counter clockwise until the (missing) pin is at the 6 o'clock position. In that position the pin *closes* the two switches in the switch stack which starts the score motor. The score motor eventually causes the 10k/10M stepper to advance one step, which moves the (missing) pin to the left and allows the two switches top *open*. The 10k/10M stepper is then ready for a new game.
    .................................................................
    Yes that would make sense. I can't read the schematic, so I can't tell what is happening in the Motor circuit.
    How did you get a clear view of those switches?????

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    #16 5 years ago

    OOOOPs......... hit the SEND button twice. I was distracted trying to explain the attachment..

    #17 5 years ago

    I'm having trouble with the 'latching relay' that keeps the power On. Its that relay in the backcase.
    Can you show me what the circuit looks like ? I can't tell where it is on the schematic.
    Sometimes it holds On, but most of the time it doesn't. I have to jump out the switch contacts to keep the
    game On.
    ****** I think the pin on the 10K stepper should look like this. Similar gear on 'Bonus Counter'.
    Thanks.

    ScreenHunter_96 Jun. 25 06.58 (resized).jpgScreenHunter_96 Jun. 25 06.58 (resized).jpg
    #19 5 years ago
    Quoted from bingopodcast:

    Guessing you are referring to the Anti-Cheat relay? Power is turned on initially by the small stack of switches actuated by the shuffle (piece under the playfield that is pushed by the coin slide). From there, 120V is routed through the transformer to the secondary windings. One of the windings is the 50V winding, which powers all the coils. One of the coils is the Anti-Cheat relay. While this is on, 120V is allowed to continue to flow.
    I would suggest seeing if you can press the armature on the Anti-cheat relay, and will it remain on? If so, then you have a dirty/maladjusted shuffle switch. If not, then you have a dirty/maladjusted anti-cheat relay.
    ** It doesn't stay ON when depresses. I also cleaned it several times! Do you know a part# so I can replace it.**
    Note that the game must be in reset position for the anti-cheat relay to function (the coin slide has to be pushed in and pulled back out - this resets a trip bank containing tilt and etc.
    *** YES, I am doing that.
    That picture above is what I was talking about - that arm hits the switches. It seems from your earlier photo that the switch might be missing a long actuating blade, but maybe not.

    *** That is a picture of the 'Bonus Counter', not the 10K stepper unit that is the issue.

    #21 5 years ago

    The coil resistance is only about 20 ohms. The coil resistance of my Bally Bingos is 105 ohms.
    The part # is 50v-c-2342-110 for the anti-cheat relay. do you think that relay would work/
    The Shuffle switches are sitting on top of the bar in the closed position. They stay that way when the
    slide is operated. they wouldn't change position unless the coil is energized.
    I don't know what energizes that particular coil. I can take a Pic of it tomorrow.
    I'm thinking the coil resistance of the anti-cheat relay is too low and is too weak to latch the coil!

    #22 5 years ago

    Pictures are a little blurry but you can see the Shuffle switches and the tilt switches.
    The Shuffle switch closes the two front switches when the bar moves forward to Start the game. The back switch
    is closed when the coil is energized and the black rollers pull back.
    The Tilt switches are closed normally; sitting tight against the black rollers. They only Open if the coil is energized.
    That looks ok to me, but I could be wrong.

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    #23 5 years ago

    At reset the 10k/10M stepper gear rotates counter clockwise until the (missing) pin is at the 6 o'clock position. In that position the pin *closes* the two switches in the switch stack which starts the score motor. The score motor eventually causes the 10k/10M stepper to advance one step, which moves the (missing) pin to the left and allows the two switches top *open*. The 10k/10M stepper is then ready for a new game.
    .................................................................................................................................................
    I was able to install a pin to actuate the switch at the bottom of the gear, which acts as a reset.
    The way the switch assy. is setup, the left switch is N.C.( normally closed), and the right switch is N. O.
    The above insert implies they should be both N. C.
    I can not get the 10K unit to advance and get out of the Reset position. Are my switches set properly or should they
    be both be N.O. ?
    See post 15 for the Pic of the two steppers.
    Also how does it know where the Zero positio of the 1K stepper is, if there is no stop on the gear. it is a
    continuous stepper. It is marked with a 'white paint mark', but i don't see how it knows where to stop for a new game.
    John

    #26 5 years ago

    Thank you very much..........I would never be able to figure that out......LoL...
    I know the switch on the right side of the 10k Zero switch runs the motor when it is closed, because the motor would keep running when the 10k stepper was staying in the Reset position. I had to stick a paper insulator between the
    blades to stop it from running.
    I have had a problem reading the schematic and wasn't sure which switches were which.
    I'm still trying to locate those inertia switches that should be closed to 'lock-in' the Anti-Cheat relay.....
    I will work on it later today.
    *******Thank you for the quick response*******
    John

    #27 5 years ago

    I re-did the -1 switch on the 10M assy., so they are both N.O. switches. I will still have to work on the adjustment
    of the sw. assy. because the 10M ( its really 10K ) resets, but stays there.
    I checked continuity thru the entire circuit shown above..... that looks ok. It looks like the problem is the adj. of the
    above switch assy.
    The Bonus Counter also resets and stays there; not sure if that should also advance one position or stay there.
    All the 'kicker holes' work except the bottom two. See attachment.
    I will work on the switch again.

    IMG_2904 (resized).JPGIMG_2904 (resized).JPG
    #28 5 years ago

    I think I got the adjustment right now.....
    I'm working on the two kicker-holes shown above. The switches are ok.
    Can someone explain how the scoring works for the bonus lites across the bottom ? Are they part of the 'kicker-holes'
    shown above.
    As of now..... the balls go in those holes, but never kick out.
    Thanks.....

    #30 5 years ago

    Escapement coil.......... Yes that is the coil you show. That unit steps- down one unit when it fires.
    Why is it called that, and why does it step-down?
    DuEt Arm sw, ....... Mounted on the slide switch.

    Kicker hole sws....... Adjusted so all 3 contacts are closed when ball sits on switch.
    ***** See attachments for Bonus 7 Double Bonus sws. and DuEt sw.

    **** Will work on unit later today...........
    Thanks Mark.....

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    #31 5 years ago

    Found switch asy. 'DuEt' contacts bent in the Open position. Top switch blades should be N.C.
    Bonus lites 30K and 35K do not light. Examined wiring on Bonus Counter circuit board; solder
    connections very corroded. Re-soldered leads on board and made a list of wire connections.
    Noticed there are two stops on this Bonus Counter; not sure why! It looks like the gear can
    only go on correctly with the Zero stop at the 6o'clock position to actuate the bottom switch.
    See attachment of 'DuEt' switch before adjustment.

    Will continue today......

    IMG_2918 (resized).JPGIMG_2918 (resized).JPG
    1 week later
    #32 5 years ago

    Up and Running Ok....... not sure it is 100%.
    Started to make a few stencils to touch-up artwork.
    Need picture of front door to make a stencil. Most of paint on front door is gone.
    See attachment.....

    IMG_2908 (resized).JPGIMG_2908 (resized).JPG

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