Question for Star Trek owners- Do the slingshots in operation have a sound effect? Or just with certain dip switch settings?
In some videos they do in others they do not.
(Topic ID: 85292)
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Quoted from dothedoo:They either have chimes or the “brook” sound I believe.
I seem to have an odd problem.
While playing I noted that the slingshots seem to have no sound effect or at best an abbreviated one. To experiment tonight I unsoldered both slingshot coils and played a round. With the coils disconnected there is a clear sound effect when struck by the ball. So this is good! But if it is tapped several times it will sometime garble the effect or even play a different note! Hooking up the coils again, at best the sound is cut off mid tone when the coil fires. I think this problem is also effecting the "lane change lamp" switches too.
The game is missing several caps on target switches and I have a cap kit coming for the soundboard just on general principle.. so for the moment not too concerned, perhaps addressing those outstanding issues will solve the sound problem.
Both the MPU and lamp driver board have had pins reflowed and good grounds, I have reflowed the pins on the sound board too. The main power board has not been touched yet, I should reflow the pins on that and replaced the main cap. The rectifier board is brand new.
Thoughts? Sound effects from pop bumpers, drop targets, roll overs and out hole all seem to be working proper.
Gary
Quoted from gdonovan:I seem to have an odd problem.
While playing I noted that the slingshots seem to have no sound effect or at best an abbreviated one. To experiment tonight I unsoldered both slingshot coils and played a round. With the coils disconnected there is a clear sound effect when struck by the ball. So this is good! But if it is tapped several times it will sometime garble the effect or even play a different note! Hooking up the coils again, at best the sound is cut off mid tone when the coil fires. I think this problem is also effecting the "lane change lamp" switches too.
The game is missing several caps on target switches and I have a cap kit coming for the soundboard just on general principle.. so for the moment not too concerned, perhaps addressing those outstanding issues will solve the sound problem.
Both the MPU and lamp driver board have had pins reflowed and good grounds, I have reflowed the pins on the sound board too. The main power board has not been touched yet, I should reflow the pins on that and replaced the main cap. The rectifier board is brand new.
Thoughts? Sound effects from pop bumpers, drop targets, roll overs and out hole all seem to be working proper.
Gary
Just an update on this- Reflowed all the pins on the solenoid board and replaced the main cap, did the ground mods and connected the two 5 volt test points with a jumper.
While I was doing this pulled the sound board and replaced the main cap. The original cap is a 100uf 100 volt, I had a 100uf 250v in the parts box so tossed that in for testing. This actually did fix something. The reverb control would hold a tone before (outhole for example) if over the 12:00 position and not stop till another sound effect was hit. Now this is gone. It did seem to cause another issue though as tones tend to play no problem but strings (like credit up) are very quiet. Clearly something going on here and I'll just have to wait for my cap kit to show up from Great Plains before proceeding further.
1 month later
Quoted from Chalkey:Going to look at a bally strat trek tomorrow that will randomly start scoring and not stop with no action on the playfield, that's all the info I have. Am I right in thinking that it's probably a bad capacitor on one of the switches or more likely something on the MPU?
That is where I would start. See if you can get into the test menu and it will display switch numbers. There is a manual on IPBD you can download. I think it is 5th button press.
lights -> display -> sound -> solenoid test -> switch test.
Cut the cap on the switch # displayed.
trek switch (resized).jpg 4 weeks later
Quoted from Quench:Yes, a likely bad connection on either/both of those pins. There is a brown-white jumper wire between those pins on J3. A common mod for redundancy on these solenoid driver boards is to solder a wire on the back of the board between TP1 and TP3.
[quoted image]
I just ran a small jumper wire between the two test points which can be rapidly disconnected if diagnostics have to be done for any reason.
Was left over alligator clips from Comet Matrix strip lighting adapters so free to me to make.
1 month later
Quoted from jsa:I've got a game that has the Alltek lamp driver board and is LEDs. Everything works pretty great. The only complaint my serious player friends have is that when you hit the flippers, the GI will blink.
I understand that the GI is on AC, and you're picking up the voltage drop. This has a new power driver board and solenoid board, I think it's by design.
Can anyone suggest any clever ways to prevent that drop (besides going back to incandescents)?
Can you post a video? I have a Star Trek and Xenon and I don't recall blinking.
Quoted from Nokoro:Ah, got it. Thanks for the explanation. I just checked, and my GI dim ever so slightly when I hit the flippers. It is barely noticeable.
Same and Star Trek has a buttload of GI lights compared to Xenon. Slight dimming at best, definitely no flashing. I'd be concerned about connectors which are a known issue on this vintage Ballys. I had to repin all mine at the bridge board and went with Trifurcon for the extra load capacity and all LED for good measure.
1 month later
Have a spare -35 board coming so I can try and convert my Star Trek board over to conventional EPROM and try a few custom compilations!
1 month later
Problem with a -35 board I picked up, perhaps someone can offer a clue before I go digging.
Board will lock up after being on an hour or so. You can play games right after being fired up for the first time. If you hit the credit button during a game and it has been on an hour or so it will lock up.
It will be fine in attract mode (has never stopped working while in attract mode) but when you press the credit button will instantly lock up. All controlled lights go out and displays die. Sometimes the machine will sit there and beep, other times if on long enough do nothing at all. Letting it sit for a few minutes with the backbox door open to cool down will let you fire it back up again.
Looking at the wiring diagram, I wondered if it was a door switch return issue. Triggering the coin switches caused no problem and when I trigger the self test button I was able to step through all test and audits till it went to reset after 011 and it locked up on reboot.
Here is a video showing it lock up when the credit button is pressed. Does not exhibit this behavior when the original board is installed.
No AMI chips are present on the board.
Quoted from pinfixer:Have you replaced C23?
It would appear from the video that just when it's trying to reset the drop targets, it dies. This is very indicative of C23 failing. It could also happen when you flip both flippers at the same time. Any huge current draw will cause the +5v line to become unstable and the CPU dies.
It's also possible that the bridge rectifier is getting weak and when up to full temperature fails to rectify fully (they become leaky allowing more AC to pass through). Another typical condition with the early power supply boards and small bridges.
The reason for this MPU failing could just simply be that the 6800 in this board is more sensitive to the +5v flux than the other.
1) Brand new bridge board, well brand new a few months ago, new connectors too. Ground mods done. New sound board as well. Major caps on solenoid board replaced.
2) Sometimes it doesn't even get that far starting up if left on long enough you get zero boot flashes. Dead as a door nail till it cools off.
3) If I place a fan on the MPU board so far it doesn't fail at all.
The only time it will lock up is when the reset button is pressed or it is coming out of diagnostics/audits and rebooting after being on for an hour.
Rock solid during play.
I'll try starting a game and walk away from it for an hour and see if it locks. If not I'll play for a few and then hit the credit button.
Quoted from gdonovan:I'll try starting a game and walk away from it for an hour and see if it locks. If not I'll play for a few and then hit the credit button.
Started machine, credited up a game, played three balls and let it sit for 45 minutes.
Fired ball four, had a spirited round, ball drained, bonus counted down and machine locked up. Did not even try and kick out the ball.
No displays, no controlled lamps.
Quoted from pinfixer:Any chance the bridge board is a Rottendog? I've had two Rottendog power boards with failed bridges. Their board construction is fine, but I think the quality of components can be suspect at times. One time the bridge got so hot I couldn't touch it, while the other two were warm but I could keep my finger on them. This was a strong indication that it had failed. Replaced the bridge and it worked fine.
Your problem most certainly does indicate a heat buildup problem. Perhaps it's not the MPU, but the power or solenoid driver board.
Any chance you have a spare game that you could swap transformer/power boards into?
1) It is Rottendog, works fine with first MPU, bridges are cool to the touch.
2) I can swap MPU and problem goes away, I can also leave the backglass off and door open and it gets enough airflow it delays the MPU locking up.
Thought I found the problem- The Hitachi 6821 PIA located at the U11 location. If I wait till the unit locks, shut down and give it a blast of cold air from an upside down container of canned air it reboots instantly. Spraying the other IC's did not seem to have any effect speeding up the time needed to get it to reboot again. I might just happen to have a few in my stash, need to amble out to the workshop and check. Digital temp reader shows no difference between it and the others, maybe getting fussy with old age IF it is the problem.
Edit: No dice on U11 or U10, swapping chips made no difference. Must have been getting something near by as I can get the MPU to reboot instantly with a quick shot of air. I'll pick at it some more tomorrow if I have time after work.
JUST an FYI the only thing on the board that seems to remotely get warm is the transistors located at Q1 and Q5 and even then 90-95F-ish.
Going to try a different set of EPROMs tonight, it has been suggested that one might have a weak flash which I can't say I have heard of but easy enough to do and I have plenty of blank chips and electrons 
Quoted from gdonovan:Going to try a different set of EPROMs tonight, it has been suggested that one might have a weak flash which I can't say I have heard of but easy enough to do and I have plenty of blank chips and electrons
Burned an earlier revision on 2 fresh chips and its running since 9:30AM, played a few games and now we wait.
Quoted from gdonovan:Burned an earlier revision on 2 fresh chips and its running since 9:30AM, played a few games and now we wait.
Now 11:07AM and still going, just going to let it sit all day and see what happens.
Finally shut it down for the day, pushing 11 hours without a hiccup! Lots of games played, no problem.
Quoted from gdonovan:Finally shut it down for the day, pushing 11 hours without a hiccup! Lots of games played, no problem.
Loaded a different package of software (V2) and new and different problems are happening after awhile! Did a third set of the V2 and so far no problems with 13 hours of run time. Anyone ever hear of temperature sensitive eproms? It is the only thing I can think of.
Sockets are in good shape, board good, etc.
Ran V2- lock up after an hour or less
Ran V1- No problem
Ran V2- Displays display random totals after an hour or two (but self test mode displays are normal)
Ran V2- No problem
Different pairs of eproms for each of the above four trials, from a new lot of 10 purchased from ebay.
5 months later
Quoted from JethroP:I believe you can test the segment drivers so not to unnecessarily replace any good ones. Also, check for cold solder joints especially at the header pins and finger leads on the glass. Check for resistors gone bad too.
$11 for a complete kit shipped, I just do them all.
1 week later
Quoted from hisokajp:While I do not want to reopen the no-LED vs LED debate...
I understand that putting "standard" LED (such as those "ONE") in controlled light/inserts due to the dimming effect not translating correctly is not recommended.
I understand there are 3 ways to use LEDs instead of incandescent light bulbs in inserts:
-Ghost buster LED with stock lamp board
-Early SS Bally/Stern LED Adapters using standard LED.
-Alltek Lamp Driver board using standard LED.
does that sound right?
Adding a resistor to individual sockets, been there and done that. 470 ohm works well.
7 months later
Quoted from emsrph:Details please. Are you adding resistor arrays to the back of the original lamp board?
Yes.
Original post below with some details. I used 10 pin arrays which left me short on a single line in two spots but if you look close in the picture above you can see where I just added a pair of 470 ohm resistors and tied them in. My Xenon looks SWEET with LED's now. The playfield just pops.
"One other DIY method that wasn't mentioned above is soldering SIP resistors soldered directly to the back of the board (Vid had posted a picture of this in another thread). You're out total cost of some SIP resistors & wire, so probably looking at $1.20-1.50 per header that way. Common pin on the SIPs get bent up or snipped higher than the board (so they aren't shorting to anything), then those pins are tied together with wire running between them & the wire then ties into the feature lamp bus. The other pins on the SIPs (individual resistors) get soldered to the 2.54mm header positions. It has the benefit that you're looking at & re-soldering practically every header pin on the board, which is usually needed anyway since there are almost always a few cracked/cold solder joints on those headers. I thought that was pretty clever, not sure Vid if you came up with that or someone else did.. but a great DIY method IMO."
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/classic-ballystern-led-adapter-kit-review#post-1812416
Quoted from vec-tor:You could run a blue wire to add the lamp +6 volt to one of the pins that is not used...
that way, it is an all in one.
I'm happy with the current solution as I have several Bally pins and can move it from pin to pin with a minimum of fuss.
1 month later
Well my day just went to hell in a basket.
Edit: Disregard post, unless you want some entertainment. I have no idea what happened, I really don't.
Going through no led troubleshooting I noted that TP2 had no voltage (expected 12V) found broken wire at stupid IDC connector.
Repaired wire and everything works perfect now, I'm at a loss but happier.
Display works fine as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So I'm starting to reassemble my Flash Gordon after doing a cabinet refurbishment. I very carefully plugged everything back in making sure no connectors were swapped, grounds hooked up, etc. And then checked them again. And for good measure disconnected the two connectors at the solenoid board J2 and J5.
So I powered up the machine...
1) The MPU led locked on and stayed on. On the credit display there was a "0"
Shutting the machine down I checked all connections again and powered back up again. Pulled all connections off lamp driver board except J4 and unplugged the switch lines on MPU
Now the MPU is stone dead.
Decided to check for 5 volts at TP5 on the MPU, HOLY COW 50 VOLTS.
Shut machine back off, unplugged the J4 connector on the lamp driver board and the connector on the sound board.
Now I have 5 volts on TP5.
If I plug the J4 back on the lamp driver board and power up I have 50 volts again on MPU TP5.
I unplug the connectors on the power board in the lower cabinet and examine them one at a time, I see nothing amiss. I check ALL the connectors again, everything is plugged in where it should be.
I power up and check TP5 again, 5VDC. I plug the J4 connector back in the lamp driver board, now it shows 5VDC.
What the hell happened? I swear the meter was showing 50 volts DC on TP5.
Ground is good, TP3 is showing 21 volts as it should and TP5 now showing 5V.
The only other thing I see that is odd, one of the displays is not glowing and the other four are. All of them were working perfect before taking the machine apart. I have it unplugged for now just to be on the safe side. Moving displays the problem follows the single display. I looked close at the display connector and pins and all looks fine.
Edited: Sound board passes LED test and when you hit self test button it goes through its paces. Whew!
Quoted from Pinball_Postal:So did the MPU get destroyed ? I would be amazed if it survived. Make sure the meter battery is good. I've seen low batteries in the meter cause incorrect readings.
Nope. Only thing we can think of is the autoranging on the meter got wonky.
Everything works fine after the 12V was fixed.
20210420_153010_1.gifAnyone know what the part number is for Bally playfield hangers for Flash Gordon? I'm assuming games like Vector, Xenon and Elektra are the same as they have the lower shooter rod location. I can't seem to find the part number in the online catalogs and I'm looking for something comparable.
hanger (resized).JPGQuoted from vec-tor:Need to fabricate... Thin bar stock.
I considered it and may do so yet. I'm still in parts collecting phase so have time.
Quoted from Mudflaps:Mantis offers it for sale. I think it’s the same size.
https://mantispinball.com/product/bally-playfield-hangers-older-bally/
They are unique, different from other Ballys due to dropped playfield. I'll measure after work today.
Quoted from vec-tor:I would inquire... the dropped playfields are deferent length. I think it is going to be a special order.
I did, they don't make them.
I'm actually looking at adding a metal brake to my workshop, why not?
Quoted from Robotworkshop:I think my Elektra also uses the taller ones.
Flash Gordon, Vector, Xenon and Elektra should all have the tall brackets.
Quoted from semicolin:I had a conversation with Mantis Pinball about some parts that they don't stock and they seemed pretty open to taking measurements and adding to the inventory for others.
I'd suggest getting in touch: it might not help you out right away but will do lots for others in the future.
I already have and we are talking, its a possibility. Would just have to send them the part, measurements are not good enough.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Mathazar:Sure. 28 and a half inches wide, 25 and 13/16 inches tall.[quoted image][quoted image]
You da man! Just wanted to see if same as Flash Gordon.
1 month later
Picked up a Supersonic Sunday morning and will bringing it to work in the next week or two for our residents.
Replaced the MPU (battery damage) replaced all the bulbs with leds, modified the driver board with SIP resistors for led operation, replaced one bad score display, unhacked the coin door credit button wiring, fixed the shooter rod, fixed a few lamp sockets, stripped the playfield, touched up some areas, waxed, cleaned plastics, repair a slingshot, adjusted some switches, replaced elastics and ball. Need to repin the bridge board for higher reliability and replace the caps on the solenoid board on general principle.
MPU will go into my repair pile, needs a lot of work though.
20210704_072923 (resized).jpg20210704_140049 (resized).jpg20210704_150851 (resized).jpg20210704_191135 (resized).jpg20210705_164757 (resized).jpg20210705_164838 (resized).jpg20210705_164848 (resized).jpg20210705_164855 (resized).jpg
20210704_141857 (resized).jpgQuoted from gdonovan:MPU will go into my repair pile, needs a lot of work though.
MPU has been repaired! Replaced two sockets, repaired some traces and replaced the 5101 and back in business.
20210707_172507 (resized).jpg20210707_172517 (resized).jpgQuoted from Robotworkshop:Would replace that 5v capacitor and do the mod to tie the grounds together and the mod to tie the two 5v sections together on the back of the driver.
Have not got there yet, just getting up and running proper at this point. But those are planned.
Quoted from RoyGBev:Agreed. The knock should mean you've accomplished something (or matched). Looks like you're running original PROMS there though, so it will take two programmed 2732s and some re-jumpering of the MPU.
Its going to work for elderly residents to use in the physical therapy room.
I'm good with it just as it is, a game plays when the button is mashed.
20180725_103320 (resized).jpgFlattened some warped plastics and repaired some screw holes that were wore out, replaced a missing plastic spacer, added blue leds up top. Light playfield touch up off skill shot chute and then mylar to protect the spot.
Proper mushroom switch on it's way to replace the stand up someone installed in center.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Coyote:That corner. Holy hell..!
Yup tough shape. I'm going to replace the sockets tonight and rummage around my stash to see if I have the other missing parts. Need at least two disc caps. Q5 I'm doubtful, transistor PNP (MPS-3702) but might have something interchangeable.
C13 and C80? Capacitor. should be easy enough. .01 MFD, 25V
Quoted from Quench:Q5 spec is a 2N4403, you can probably use any generic PNP bipolar transistor.
I just might have one in my stash, stay tuned for results later if all goes well
Quoted from gdonovan:I just might have one in my stash, stay tuned for results later if all goes well
Repaired a bunch of ground traces and tried booting for the hell of it after pulling ram socket, nothing. A number of traces below the ram socket are just gone. Best case figured I'd get a lit LED that would flash only twice (ram missing) but not even a lit LED. Going to tuck it in the repair pile for a rainy day, going to need much work if ever coming back to life.
Quoted from gdonovan:I just might have one in my stash, stay tuned for results later if all goes well
No luck so far. Bad traces bypassed, new ram, replaced the caps and transistor.
No led flash, dead as a doornail. I'll dig farther in the future.
Quoted from gdonovan:No luck so far. Bad traces bypassed, new ram, replaced the caps and transistor.
No led flash, dead as a doornail. I'll dig farther in the future.
Who knew the future was only 12 hours off?
Checked part numbers of PROMs, good. removed all socketed chips and retest, no LED. Have 15.8 volts at T2, tested LED with 3 volt battery, LED is good. Testing pin 40 of 6800 on boot shows .20 volts, no bounce to 5 volts so the reset section is unhappy with life minimum.
Quoted from Quench:The LED should be stuck on in this case. The default state of the 6821 pin driving the LED on power-up is high impedance so the pull-up resistor R107 causes the LED to be on. Check both ground and +5V pins at the U11 chip. This is separate to your reset problem.
4.66 volts measured at socket with no 6820 present.
Quoted from Quench:Presume that's just a poor 5V connection to the board.
Should not be as I'm using Fireball to test and the connection is clean. I was going to trace out the 5v path as that sounded a touch low but ran out of time.
This is just a side project when I have a spare moment here or there. Otherwise I'm back to working on Flash Gordon. Yesterday I block sanded the playfield after the first coat of clear and took note of the areas that need attention. Tonight I'm going to mask off the white areas for paint.
ad77a5d37a225493f4a53055ff70cffa7983a3b0 (resized).jpgQuoted from Quench:Presume that's just a poor 5V connection to the board.
The LED is switched by transistor Q2. Resistor R107 switches the Q2 transistor "on" at power-up. Once code begins to execute properly after reset, it tells the 6821 at U11 to switch transistor Q2 (and subsequently the LED) "off".
RE: reset, the schematics list all the voltages in the valid power section.
Knowing you, you should be able to work it out
Below was some measurements I took a year or two ago for someone else. I can't 100% remember but I think the red resistance readings were taken with the black meter lead on ground and red meter lead at the point. The black resistance readings are with the meter leads swapped around.
[quoted image]
At test point 5 I have 5.2 volts so the hunt is on to find my missing volts!
Follow up: voltage looks right for that particular part. Schematic indicates 4.5 volts to pin 40, U11
Too early, I needed to look at pin 20, sorry about that. 5.20 volts with chip in place. Dont do diagnostics with little sleep.
20210809_054416 (resized).jpg
2 weeks later
Quoted from Chalkey:Here's an odd issue that popped up on my viking. It began to happen when you double flip a few times it will activate the slam tilt (makes the Dee-doo-Dee-doo alarm and goes to attract mode). I bypassed the two slam tilt switches and it still happens. One time it qctivated the outhole, then slam tilted shortly after. I removed the MPU j3 connector and verified all the switch diodes seem to be functional and securely fastened. It will do this with no other playfield switches actuated (all drops up, outhole empty). Nothing fishy in switch test. The j3 connector was rebuilt at some point as it is a crimp and stuff, not IDC like the rest. No amount of wiggling or reseating connectors seems to make a difference. Popped in alltek MPU and SDU and the same issue persists. Was thinking that maybe the double flipping is causing some sort of voltage drop making the MPUs act funny as I cant seem to replicate the issue without double flipping and I've gotten pretty rough in testing. My next move was going to be a new rectifier board and rebuilding connectors if that didn't fix it although all power is metering correctly at the MPU / SDU at credit. Thoughts?
Edit: I suppose I could proof of concept my theory by disconnecting J3 and double flipping a bunch? If that doesn't do it I guess I'm left with connectors and replacing a bunch of switch diodes.
Humid where you are at? Try cutting the cap on the tilt board.
Quoted from Chalkey:Would that cause a slam tilt or just a regular tilt? I thought it just went between the ring and bob. The switches for the slam tilts have had the wires disconnected.
Should be regular tilt not slam. I missed where you stated slam tilt.
Quoted from bluebomber:Does anyone have a source for head/backbox hinges? I have the bottoms, but I need the tops (or a complete set)
Rixzilla has some "bent" ones, I was looking for "flat" ones for Flash Gordon without success.
1 month later
Quoted from vec-tor:EM cabinet.
Would not an very early solid state have an "EM" cabinet? We have certainly seen Bally in particular recycle cabinets to save money or get pins out the door.
Quoted from Nokoro:What makes that an EM cabinet besides the chimes? My Paragon cabinet looks like that sans the chimes. It’s also splitting at the seams, and I’ll need to address that soon.
Is see inserts or just the holes for mounting the lower relay board.
Quoted from Nokoro:Are there supposed to be diodes on the tilt bobs? The schematics show a diode, but neither of my Ballys has one. Is the theory that once you tilt, it's over anyway, so no risk of phantom switch hits?
The tilt bob has a diode it shares with tilt roll cage.
2 weeks later
Anyone have a scan of a Bally shooter gauge? The one on my Centaur is mangled so I'm going to try and make a stencil and paint one. The donor unit is all rusted of course.
Quoted from Quench:Did the below for a Xenon a few years ago. The black/red/white one is very likely from a Centaur.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Perfect! Just saved me an hour or two of work.
The shooter gauge I could help you out with a stencil, the apron a different story though.
I'll be working on the stencil tonight, my Centaur's is mangled.
Quoted from Mathazar:Agreed. I did a restoration on my '84 EBD but had to stop short on the apron and shooter gauge after months of looking around for a repro apron or decal set came up dry. Fortunately my set has only a few blemishes and is passable, but I'd love to make it look like new again if given the opportunity. If you come across someone who does apron decals for the '84, I'd be in, too![quoted image]
I'm wondering if I can do an apron decal? With those lines it would be tough. I'll have to run my Flash Gordon one though the flatbed and see what I can do with it.
Pictured below, adventures in stencil making.
1 month later
A guide for adding resistor arrays on Bally and Stern lamp driver boards for LED operation for those interested in the process.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/seawitch-from-scratch-allentown-edition/page/18#post-6676387
Just another option for running LED's
Gary
1 week later
Quoted from CanadianPinball:Had a local pinhead 3d print them, worked out well and 2 years later they are fine. Use them on my Firepower[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I was going to 3d print some out of clear or silver.
Quoted from dmieczko:Hopefully not a stupid question, but here it goes...
Does anyone sell a rebuild kit for an AS2518-132 power rectifier board? It's the one in the bottom of the Baby Pac and Granny and the Gators cabinets.
Check over at Big Daddy.
1 month later
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:Personally I'd have preferred if he had used one with a roached cab/glass but I don't suppose it matters so long as his good parts went on to help revive other projects... not to mention it's his to do with as he pleases. I digress..workmanship is impressive and the outcome looks great.
Impressive workmanship!
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:Yep, kinda what I'm thinking. This one is absolutely hammered six ways to Sunday.
Sweet deal right here.
1 week later
Quoted from barakandl:This is an issue with the cheap squeak sound board. Exacerbated by MPUs with longer reset widths.
When the cheap squeak comes out of reset it programs the 6803 processor mode. The pins that program the 6803 mode also happen to be solenoid signals and forces the bit pattern for the outhole. The PIA ports are in Z state during reset making it easy for the cheap squeak to drive those signals, even through the series resistors to the solenoid decoder.
There is potential coil melting problem here. If the MPU and Cheap Squeak are below the 5v power monitor level and stuck in reset, the mode programming diodes on the cheap squeak can lock on a coil. If the cheap squeak and mpu had a reset buttons, if you held them both down, the outhole would lock on until the fuse blows or worse.
I fixed this on the replacement cheap squeak I make. I put in series resistors and a buffer chip between the solenoid signals and the 6803 processor. That way the mode programming will not be able to force the solenoid pattern for the outhole while in reset. All other bally sound boards have a buffer chip on the solenoid input signals. I think the "cheap" part left out that circuit and they decided to just live with the potential coil pulse at power on.
[quoted image]
Good info to know! That would drive me crazy trying to track down.
4 weeks later
Quoted from gdonovan:Thought I'd share; he comes down every day to play, states his dad use to repair pins, jukeboxes and slots.
[quoted image]
8 months later, still going strong at work. It's on every single day and has not skipped a beat.
20220328_073653 (resized).jpg 2 weeks later
Quoted from Mudflaps:I tried to connect an external sub with alligator clips, epic fail. I did purchase a Pinball Pro cabinet sub and it’s been great. I have the NB2 board, so I needed a decent speaker to work with the custom music.
https://pinballpro.net/shop/early-bally-williams-games-subwoofer/
I don't have any speaker at the moment, hence my question.
1 month later
Quoted from Biju:Well, that's too bad but not totally unexpected. I'm seeing several different prices for what appears to be the same thing: a replacement AS-2518-18 board. When I see this I assume the components are the reason. Any recommendations here?
And thank you very much for your help on this!
Get Andrews.
https://nvram.weebly.com/bally---stern-rectifier.html
Very easy to assemble, very robust.
Quoted from hisokajp:my first test on every bally/stern i buy, no question asked
The rectifiers are more robust, fuse retainers new and all the diodes fresh.
For $30 a steal in my book.
Quoted from Thunfisch:Somebody has replaced the original (crimped) connector with an ICD type, which is per se not a problem, but ... Also take a look at the third connector, which is partly replaced by soldering the wires directly to the board.
This is not uncommon since these connectors are usually burnt, they are under-dimensioned, Bally later switched to a better solution.
Swapping to LED on the GI helps a lot.
2 weeks later
Quoted from RoyGBev:Don't even bother using new incandescent bulbs in pop bumpers of any game newer than an EM. Vibration will knock them out right away.
The new incandescent bulbs are garbage. I installed all new ones on a Kickoff I did a few years ago and easy a 1/3 of the bulbs were dead in a month.
Everything gets Comet LED's now, everything. This Supersonic been rocking it at work now for almost a year, not a single Comet warm white retro frosted has failed.
Quoted from bigguybbr:I love when you show that Supersonic getting some use. It's so awesome to see.
One resident comes down every day to play in his wheelchair.
1 week later
Quoted from barakandl:The ones that come in a 100 pack white box, 10x10 shaped with the cardboard dividers? I had the similar experience the last time I used them. Some how my dad's bow and arrow has incandescent bulbs still working from possibly the 70s yet the ones I put into BSD where burning out and blackening after a year or so of home use. I think the Eiko ones are a little better, but forget it. The warm white LEDs now-a-days can look really good. Specially if they have smoothing capacitor in them for GI or they get run on DC, no 120hz flickers.
They were Eiko.
1 month later
Quoted from frenchmarky:Question: On my Stern Lightning I've always gotten some noticeable buzz-zz-bzzz noises in the sound during attract, like the noise is in sync with all the lamps flashing. In test modes where the lamps aren't flashing, I don't get any of that noise. Only noticeable during attract. Should I just recap the sound board or is there anything else I should check first? Thanks!
Not unusual on the Bally/Stern platform noise from displays. Making sure all grounds are 100% can help.
1 week later
Quoted from zeldarioid:I’m referring to the lone component that is isolated and bolted through the metal plate in the bottom of the cabinet, next to the transformer and the A2 board. The one that (I gather) controls the ability for the GI to flicker off and on, and is comprised (outwardly) of a circular metal case with two prongs coming out of the top, and a bolt on bottom. I’d take a picture but I’m not near the machine at the moment!
Am I mistaken on what that is?
You are correct.
Quoted from barakandl:The originals are in a mostly obsolete funny package (RD-91?) and they clamp I think the transformer assembly if I remember right.
They just attached to the large plate the transformer is bolted too, nothing fancy.
283d534f8ef61004275879a2a8bb477120961104 (resized).jpgQuoted from slochar:You should leave the two connected as one to maintain the voltage chain if you take the connector off for some reason.
I have both mine wired so the board has a dedicated power and ground, don't like the "pass through" setup at all.
Quoted from frenchmarky:Okay thank you both. So as far as 'tying grounds together' to get rid of any ground loops (no expert on that), not sure if or specifically what I need to do extra there besides repinning? Such as pins 2 and 3 - - they are common on the board for ground, each pin has two wires. Do I need to tie those two pins together at the female pins as well with a bit of wire, or doesn't it matter? I'm chasing down a bad buzzy noise in the sound that is worse the more controlled lamps are lit or flashing, so mainly attract mode. Recap/repin in progress, no luck so far with the buzzing. Volume has increased quite a bit though. It's not interference from the displays. Just making sure I do what I need to do to as far as extra ground connections I should add.
Have you recapped the sound board? They are all past rated life span.
Quoted from frenchmarky:I've replaced all the larger ones so far; I still have the 10ufs to do. Did get a big bump up in the overall volume with that (it wasn't bad before), but the buzzy-buzz noise during attract is the same. Also in the middle of repinning the .156s connectors for the rectifier and sound board. The boards/connectors have been trouble free since I've owned it for many years but reconnecting/wiggling them now is causing bad ones to show up so yeah figured time to get to it.
If I really crank the volume up the buzz gets louder too of course until it's booming, but you don't notice that during a game, only when all the lamps start flashing in attract mode. Also I am using regular incandescent lamps.
I will recap the speech board too but don't know if it could cause the noise, or only the sound board.
Ok, sounds like you have a floating ground somewhere, usually the only time you have noise from the displays is ground float.
I'd not focus to much on the sound board then but check all the grounds on the SDB and general cabinet grounds. Also make sure the power plug has a good ground pin, would not hurt to verify it with an ohm meter either.
1 month later
Quoted from vid1900:You'd have to check each trace with your meter to see if the corrosion has interrupted the Circuits
There looks to still be corrosion in the pics
Did you use the SnoBowl to clean it?
I see an AMI chip, I know where I would start.
Quoted from Alan_L:No, just the usual vinegar & distilled water and 99% alcohol rinse. Not familiar with SnoBowl. You mean the toilet bowl cleaner?
The ZEP gel stuff from Home Depot is awesome, does a great job.
Quoted from Mathazar:There's a fine line between amusement.....and terror.
I already fixed it after reviewing the schematics and checking voltages.
My initial reaction was what horror is this?
ca24e115324f8997529e67b2a1cbbe3b30070c66 (resized).jpgQuoted from guitarded:It's rarely gonna shock someone with that cage in play. This keeps'em on their toes.
Look closer.
Quoted from barakandl:What's going on there? Rectifying the GI? The typical hack is to put extra diodes on the feature lamp bus to bring the V down but that looks like its on the transformer tap wires.
Not sure why they used two bridges unless they are spreading load out.
Both the GI and the feature lights are being run through partial bridges to lower the lamp voltages.
Yes everything was pretty dim.
Quoted from flynnibus:So instead of just tapping from the pcb if they wanted to do offboard... they put pigtails in the cable harness?? Guess this is the guy who didn't have a soldering gun...
Well the wires are soldered to the bridges, yes the cut the harness between the transformer and its connectors.
1 month later
Quoted from Thunfisch:Does your Mata Hari also have LED displays? LED displays consume less power than the originl ones, of course, but the old ones consumed their power from the 170 Volts line, whereas the new LED ones consume from the 5 Volts line, which may be too much sometimes...
Unless you are running a China 5V regulator, the LED displays should be a nonissue.
Quoted from Phesson:It does have pinscore led displays
Could always unplug them and play blind to see if the problem occurs.
1 month later
Quoted from metalkatt:Interesting situation going on my Embryon project. I installed my Alltek solenoid driver board to see what was going on….
So my flippers die out, and I went into solenoid test mode…as the solenoids fire off, things are fine until the right sling triggers, which then causes the right Outlane flipper to show a short, which causes the flippers to not work any longer….. interesting, right?
Thoughts, ideas?
Check coil lugs on that side to make sure nothing is shorting.
3 weeks later
Quoted from iamdrunker:Sure it will work, The braided wire will hold up better with metal fatigue around the door hinge. It must be reliable.
Later Bally's had green insulated wire with crimped eyelets.
Quoted from rack-em-up:The pin has worked perfectly since I bought it 4 or 5 years ago.
[quoted image][quoted image]
If everything is right it will have no impact on operation. Generally speaking its protection for the humans in case of a short to ground.
In your example let's put forth the hypothetical case of the power switch failing internally and routing the hot side of the switch to ground through the switch body and thus the metal plate its mounted in.
If the plate is grounded, circuit protection kicks in. If ungrounded and you touch it, odds are the hot will pass through you on it's way to ground.
Quoted from rack-em-up:Thanks! I will replace ASAP. Still can't figure why someone cut it off but I guess that's not really that important.
Well it's not important until YOU are the ground path.
Someone might have changed out the switch or coin door and could not have been bothered to hook everything up proper.
2 months later
Quoted from jibmums:0.1uf/500v is what I just saw in other threads. Getting sparking on my Space Invaders, maybe adding them can cut that down a bit.
I have some on mine, cuts down sparks and noise in the system.
4 weeks later
Any Bally guys know what to make of this oddball head?
1) Head is painted with EM style Captain Fantastic graphics. Clearly done with stencils with light silver/gray splatter.
2) Has hinged backglass. I'm told games like Night Rider SS and Freedom also had hinged head, this clearly has the large lock cutout like later pins than that though.
3) Has Bally Stamped ESBM 8xxx serial number on head in correct location, size and font.
I'm stumped at the moment.
Pinside_forum_7567300_0 (resized).jpgQuoted from Madmax541:NR SS is hinged game
Yes but the lock is lower and there is no cutout.
Pinside_archive_1133_27687 (resized).jpgQuoted from Inkochnito:ESBM = Electronic Silver Ball Mania
Yes and the seller indicated it had that backglass in it. However the paint and construction do not match Silverball Mania.
Quoted from Quench:Maybe a previous owner put it together for a multi-game cabinet
I'll have to take a few more pics, very strange
How common are Bally six drop target assemblies? What games were they used on?
I'm toying with a scratch built Fathom now that I have a playfield but have to science out a few things. The inline drops pop up for sale time to time but I'm not sure how common the 6 bank drop assembly is or the 3 ball trough.
Just noticed that the two inline units are with "memory coils" so that may complicate things.
Quoted from wayout440:Looks to me like someone was trying their own stenciling for Capt. Fantastic in different colors on a Silverball Mania backbox.[quoted image]
Silverball does not have swing out box.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Robotworkshop:The display that shows the Elektra units. Only uses the middle two digits of a 6 digit display. So Elektra has four 7 digit displays and two 6 digit displays.
Similar to my Mr and Mrs Pacman. That also has four 7 digit and two 6 digit displays.
I used a pacman display harness for my universal cabinet, there was a day or two of work sorting that out.
5 months later
Quoted from tatman9999:Where can I get a drop target metal bracket that keeps target from coming out to high. One side the ear is missing
[quoted image][quoted image]
Marco has them, note that there is a left and I right. Make sure you order the correct one.
2 months later
Quoted from Coyote:Some places back in the day had 105 or 110 volts fed to it instead of 120. One of my old houses was like this back in NW Illinois. We'd get 107-110v. I can imagine that that little difference could affect coil power and such?
My garage has a true sine wave inverter off the solar bank that is set at 100v 60hz, line power is 120v
Certain machines the difference in flipper power is noticeable.
2 weeks later
Quoted from ManbearpigOG:Success!
Watched a few YT videos about Bally 6/7 digit displays and what usually fails. Just needed to add $2 worth of parts to my last order, and now I have a working credit/ball count. I did reflow the J plug pins but that was not enough.
I figured going into this I was gonna have to be careful, but damn, you need to be really really careful. I ended up having 3 pads lift and the one broke. I just folded the wire over and cleaned up the tracing to solder too.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Bally display pcb are notorious for lifting traces.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Dakine747:My original Paragon also has the speckling, but I know that a whole bunch of these early ss Ballys made after EK but before Paragon didn’t have it. Maybe Bally wanted to get rid of all the stockpiled speckle when Paragon was run!
Entirely possible, the only reason 6MDM had six players was to get rid of the six digit displays. I would not be the least bit surprised if games like Vector, Medusa & Mr and Mrs Pacman had playfield displays was so Bally could get rid of the remaining stock.
1 month later
Quoted from JethroP:Have a Seawitch ....the player displays show all digits correctly in test, but in attract mode every other digit is blank -- on all displays. Bad chip or connector issue?
Try clearing all memory/audit locations one at a time, the software will do strange stuff if garbage is present or high score not set.
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