(Topic ID: 85292)

Bally/Stern AS-2518 Club !

By mof

8 years ago


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  • 338 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by KrisGonzo
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There are 3,397 posts in this topic. You are on page 67 of 68.
#3301 3 months ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Yes, if the MPU is damaged in any way I will repair or replace it. Send me a contact form message on the website if you think the MPU has a problem and want to send it back.

Thank you barakandl. I appreciate your service. I’ll check your website.

#3302 3 months ago
Quoted from Phesson:

This is what I was thinking. It has a weebly mpu board. Do they still service these?

Webbly is still doing business I forget whom it is here on Pinside.
I don't think they offer "service" . IE you may not be able to send them a questionable board and expect them to debug.
Regardless; ask them via their website. It's right there on the board via silkscreen.

Nevermind; barakandl responded.

#3303 3 months ago

Also see this and make sure you are not noticing "phantom pops". The slings and pop bumpers may pulse with the flippers occasionally. This is some what normal and unavoidable. Phantom pops should not score points though in most cases.

Theory of operation talks about it.
https://arcarc.xmission.com/Pinball/PDF%20Pinball%20Misc/Bally%20Theory%20of%20Operation.pdf
Untitled (resized).png

#3304 3 months ago

Looking for a supplier for the C26 capacitor on Bally/Stern solenoid driver boards. They were custom made for Ed at GPE, but with his recent loss he is closing down his business, is out of stock on them and probably won't be receiving any more.

The cap is 150uF, 350 VDC, axial. I have searched Jameco, Mouser and a number of other sites to no avail. Richey will make you 100 with 28 weeks notice.

Does anyone out there have another source?

#3305 3 months ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

Looking for a supplier for the C26 capacitor on Bally/Stern solenoid driver boards. They were custom made for Ed at GPE, but with his recent loss he is closing down his business, is out of stock on them and probably won't be receiving any more.
The cap is 150uF, 350 VDC, axial. I have searched Jameco, Mouser and a number of other sites to no avail. Richey will make you 100 with 28 weeks notice.
Does anyone out there have another source?

This place has a lot of old radio/TV capacitors, they have a 220uf @ 450 volts axial for 10 bucks.
https://www.justradios.com/cart.html

You can use a radial instead too, there's various ways of mounting them.

#3306 3 months ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

This place has a lot of old radio/TV capacitors, they have a 220uf @ 450 volts axial for 10 bucks.

Thmanks for the tip.. They do have a 150uf, 450v for $8.99, but Ed was at $5.00 before he ran out. Perhaps someone has them cheaper.

#3307 3 months ago

Two in the shop... mine!

IMG_20220820_125401924 (resized).jpg

#3308 3 months ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

Thmanks for the tip.. They do have a 150uf, 450v for $8.99, but Ed was at $5.00 before he ran out. Perhaps someone has them cheaper.

I have an order arriving next week. Radial leads 150uF, 400V. Selling them for $7 plus shipping if you're interested.

#3309 3 months ago

Arrow usually has good prices on electrolytic capacitors. Free shipping if you buy enough stuff. Perks programs. Often can find coupons. These would all work on the driver board HV cap

Epcos (TDK) 150uF 450v. High reliability, high temp, low esr... nice specs $1.8. They don't have many in stock. Probably the best choice I see right now unless you like Nichicon or Nippon Chemicon.
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/b43547a5157m/epcos-tdk

Nichicon standard 150uF 450v $2.7
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/lls2w151melz/nichicon

Nichicon reduced size 150uF 400v $1.9
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/upz2g151mhd6/nichicon

#3310 3 months ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

Looking for a supplier for the C26 capacitor on Bally/Stern solenoid driver boards. They were custom made for Ed at GPE, but with his recent loss he is closing down his business, is out of stock on them and probably won't be receiving any more.
The cap is 150uF, 350 VDC, axial. I have searched Jameco, Mouser and a number of other sites to no avail. Richey will make you 100 with 28 weeks notice.
Does anyone out there have another source?

TRY:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CDE-Illinois-Capacitor/107TTA350M?qs=3tP%252BN51vMXcmcGDbhPL69A%3D%3D
It's not exact, but close.

#3311 3 months ago

BTW all the ones I linked at radial style. Just mount it like the C23 cap. There is drill holes to use a zippy tie and wire leads.

Nichicon discontinued the axial ones a couple years ago. Not very many options for the axial style anymore.

Did CDE buy Illinois Cap? That is a new one to me. The one linked above kind of looks that way. Hard to keep track of how often these companies buy and sell each other anymore. Anyways CDE / IC both a good brand with a long history. Although "Illinois" cap started making there product in China...

#3312 3 months ago

Well i am stumped, i hope i am just missing something stupid because that issue is aggravating me... Just finished a hardtop restauration on a Frontier, all is working well after typical adjustments, except the top lane B switch. It is widely inconsistent, not registering at all, to often registering twice on a single roll to sometime working...

I did:
Clean and adjust original switch, did not work.
Put a new leaf switch and adjusted, did not work.
change the diode, did not work.
change all the diodes of the other switches in same row, did not work.
remove new capacitors from switches in same row, did not work.
Checked visually switch in same row, nothing loose or wrong i can notice?
Swapped the original MPU for an Weebly, same issue still
reprinned the MPU wire connector for good form, did not work.
I am short of micro switch bracket to do a real test but it seems to be working fairly well putting one in parallel and doing some test.

Am i missing something here? all the other switches in the game works just fine. All diodes and caps are new under the PF. The top lane A and C near it work just fine...
20220822_185857- (resized).jpg
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#3313 3 months ago

Is the hardtop interfering mechically with the switch assembly?

#3314 3 months ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

Well i am stumped, i hope i am just missing something stupid because that issue is aggravating me... Just finished a hardtop restauration on a Frontier, all is working well after typical adjustments, except the top lane B switch. It is widely inconsistent, not registering at all, to often registering twice on a single roll to sometime working...
I did:
Clean and adjust original switch, did not work.
Put a new leaf switch and adjusted, did not work.
change the diode, did not work.
change all the diodes of the other switches in same row, did not work.
remove new capacitors from switches in same row, did not work.
Checked visually switch in same row, nothing loose or wrong i can notice?
Swapped the original MPU for an Weebly, same issue still
reprinned the MPU wire connector for good form, did not work.
I am short of micro switch bracket to do a real test but it seems to be working fairly well putting one in parallel and doing some test.
Am i missing something here? all the other switches in the game works just fine. All diodes and caps are new under the PF. The top lane A and C near it work just fine...
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

I was thinking you could clip the switch lugs closed with an alligator wire, put it in switch test and try to get it to act up by wiggling/tugging on connectors, moving the pf up and down etc.

#3315 3 months ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

I was thinking you could clip the switch lugs closed with an alligator wire, put it in switch test and try to get it to act up by wiggling/tugging on connectors, moving the pf up and down etc.

i did another very thorough pass through off ALL switches, making sure all solder of wires, diodes and caps were solid, that there was enough gap between every lugs and no short to anything nearby, even changed diodes on the cabinets switches. I am not sure exactly what it was but it seems it did the trick and now the B lane works flawlessly... perseverance paid off

#3316 3 months ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

i did another very thorough pass through off ALL switches, making sure all solder of wires, diodes and caps were solid, that there was enough gap between every lugs and no short to anything nearby, even changed diodes on the cabinets switches. I am not sure exactly what it was but it seems it did the trick and now the B lane works flawlessly... perseverance paid off

Damn crickets . Glad you’re back in business.

2 weeks later
#3317 82 days ago

I'm pondering rejumpering this working-great extra mpu-200 from my Stern Lightning so that it will work in my Bally EBD. Instructions all say the clock speed change involves jumpers E32 thru E35 but I went bat-blind trying to find those, can anybody point them out or is something else going on? Only ones I couldn't find. thanks

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#3318 82 days ago

these?

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#3319 82 days ago

Oh there they are, man I just could NOT spot those, thanks!

#3320 78 days ago

Embryon issues

Looking for some advise as to what the issue might be….

Working on an Embryon, and the second to the left pop bumper was working for a few hits then dead, constantly doing this. So I change out the diode with a fresh 1n4004. Pop bumper works awesome!! Well, thought I was done and after a few games, other things started to crop up…knocker knocks frequently, only the far left pop bumper light comes on at the beginning of the game.

Now, before I added that diode, the pop bumper to the far right, occasionally, when I pressed on the skirt, would pop but some of the playfield insert lights would come on and off, as well. I didn’t mess with it, because it was working fine and it only did it a few times.

Those are my dilemmas, any help appreciated. I’m assuming some kind of matrix issue involved - there are still older diodes and capacitors lingering on other switches. Don’t know if that could be part of the problem…all I know is that the gremlins are getting me good this time!

#3321 78 days ago
Quoted from metalkatt:

Embryon issues
Looking for some advise as to what the issue might be….
Working on an Embryon, and the second to the left pop bumper was working for a few hits then dead, constantly doing this. So I change out the diode with a fresh 1n4004. Pop bumper works awesome!! Well, thought I was done and after a few games, other things started to crop up…knocker knocks frequently, only the far left pop bumper light comes on at the beginning of the game.
Now, before I added that diode, the pop bumper to the far right, occasionally, when I pressed on the skirt, would pop but some of the playfield insert lights would come on and off, as well. I didn’t mess with it, because it was working fine and it only did it a few times.
Those are my dilemmas, any help appreciated. I’m assuming some kind of matrix issue involved - there are still older diodes and capacitors lingering on other switches. Don’t know if that could be part of the problem…all I know is that the gremlins are getting me good this time!

You need to start isolating when the issues occur and try to get more specific in your post. I can’t tell from your post which lights come on or when, and what issues have been resolved and which are still occurring. Perhaps let’s take them one at a time. Insert light issues are very likely going to be different from switch issues. So, is there a switch issue, and if so, what specific switch and what is happening? Let’s start with that. If we resolve it, we’ll move on to the lights.

#3322 78 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

You need to start isolating when the issues occur and try to get more specific in your post. I can’t tell from your post which lights come on or when, and what issues have been resolved and which are still occurring. Perhaps let’s take them one at a time. Insert light issues are very likely going to be different from switch issues. So, is there a switch issue, and if so, what specific switch and what is happening? Let’s start with that. If we resolve it, we’ll move on to the lights.

So, initially I was getting a closed 5 switch(outhole) in the switch test. There’s two in the trough, the left one was stuck and broken…so I have another ordered to fix that error.

They asked me to fix one of the pops because it’s not activating when the ball hits the skirt. I continuously tapped on the skirt, and eventually it would start popping for 5/6 times until it was dead again. So, I figured, clean switch the contacts and change the diode. They were original and I had to get under the hood anyways, so I did that. Pop bumper works awesome now.

When I was tapping the other pops, I noticed the far right one would pop, but 7/8 insert lights would turn on and off at the same time. I found that odd…but it didn’t do it all the time.

So, I left the machine for the day, everything seemed to be working okay otherwise. Later that evening, they contacted me to let me know that the knocker was firing multiple times during a game and that the left pop bumper light was coming on and staying on, but the other 3 pops were not.

I’m waiting for video to see the issues, and I’m not going back for a couple weeks to attempt a fix. Figured rattling some other brains besides mine might help me get a better idea what’s up. I can’t imagine changing a diode would cause any of these issues but I’m open to all ideas.

Hope that clarifies the issues I’m looking to resolve….

Thank you for any help.

#3323 77 days ago
Quoted from metalkatt:

So, initially I was getting a closed 5 switch(outhole) in the switch test. There’s two in the trough, the left one was stuck and broken…so I have another ordered to fix that error.
They asked me to fix one of the pops because it’s not activating when the ball hits the skirt. I continuously tapped on the skirt, and eventually it would start popping for 5/6 times until it was dead again. So, I figured, clean switch the contacts and change the diode. They were original and I had to get under the hood anyways, so I did that. Pop bumper works awesome now.
When I was tapping the other pops, I noticed the far right one would pop, but 7/8 insert lights would turn on and off at the same time. I found that odd…but it didn’t do it all the time.
So, I left the machine for the day, everything seemed to be working okay otherwise. Later that evening, they contacted me to let me know that the knocker was firing multiple times during a game and that the left pop bumper light was coming on and staying on, but the other 3 pops were not.
I’m waiting for video to see the issues, and I’m not going back for a couple weeks to attempt a fix. Figured rattling some other brains besides mine might help me get a better idea what’s up. I can’t imagine changing a diode would cause any of these issues but I’m open to all ideas.
Hope that clarifies the issues I’m looking to resolve….
Thank you for any help.

Thanks. I’m not familiar with the game. What in game events control the 7 and 8 insert lights?

If the pop bumper lights are controlled, you could have a stuck on transistor on the board. It is worth checking all transistors for those affected lights. If you don’t know how, there’s a good post that I can link when I get home later today.

I would also check all switches for shorts to ground. Maybe something got bent, and a switch or a lead is touching a lamp socket.

#3324 75 days ago

My Stars on location is not booting normally. If you power it on, the LED locks on. If you then quickly power cycle, it boots normally. I had this happen on my Diner, and I know it’s a different board set, but it ended up being a single capacitor in the reset circuit. Is there something similar for Bally/Stern games where it’s likely to be one specific thing most of the time?

Original board, remote batteries since I got it.

#3325 71 days ago

By far the number one problem I get emailed about after a customer puts in a new MPU board is solenoids are not firing in the right order or some are missing. This is almost always a connector issue between MPU J4 and driver J4. I created this chart to help to chart and identify what bit is the problem. When there is an open circuit connector issue between MPU J4 and driver J4 the input bit will pull high (red, 1). When there is a green zero on the right side, that is what coil fires when the input pattern on the left is given to the driver board decoder.

Tip. Switch over to Stern Hot hand or a MPU200 game as they do the solenoids in Q# order. Bally has no logical order and every game is different which is one more thing to try decode...

Untitled (resized).png

#3326 71 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

By far the number one problem I get emailed about after a customer puts in a new MPU board is solenoids are not firing in the right order or some are missing. This is almost always a connector issue between MPU J4 and driver J4. I created this chart to help to chart and identify what bit is the problem. When there is an open circuit connector issue between MPU J4 and driver J4 the input bit will pull high (red, 1). When there is a green zero on the right side, that is when the coil fires.
Tip. Switch over to Stern Hot hand or a MPU200 game as they do the solenoids in Q# order. Bally has no logical order and every game is different which is one more thing to try decode...
[quoted image]

That is a problem with people expecting that just buying new boards and popping those in the game will fix all the problems. If there isn't troubleshooting first they can also damage new boards....

#3327 71 days ago
Quoted from desertT1:

My Stars on location is not booting normally. If you power it on, the LED locks on. If you then quickly power cycle, it boots normally. I had this happen on my Diner, and I know it’s a different board set, but it ended up being a single capacitor in the reset circuit. Is there something similar for Bally/Stern games where it’s likely to be one specific thing most of the time?
Original board, remote batteries since I got it.

WMS charges up a 33uF cap I think it is to delay the reset circuit. Bally is a bit different, no electrolytic cap to dry out and reduce the time like WMS, but the reset circuit is still not that complex. Check pin 40 of the CPU chip. You should get a low to high transition at power on. If it is floating or stuck always high might have some battery damage or blown out active part in the reset area.

Check the 82 ohm resistor. It likes to burn out and is involved.

#3328 71 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

That is a problem with people expecting that just buying new boards and popping those in the game will fix all the problems. If there isn't troubleshooting first they can also damage new boards....

I get to fix that too =D. I just added over voltage protection on the driver board. We'll see if it helps, have fixed a rash of blown out by over voltage MPUs lately.

#3329 71 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

WMS charges up a 33uF cap I think it is to delay the reset circuit. Bally is a bit different, no electrolytic cap to dry out and reduce the time like WMS, but the reset circuit is still not that complex. Check pin 40 of the CPU chip. You should get a low to high transition at power on. If it is floating or stuck always high might have some battery damage or blown out active part in the reset area.
Check the 82 ohm resistor. It likes to burn out and is involved.

While I fully expect to be able to track and fix the issue, this game is on location and everyone plays Stars. So while I troubleshoot I’ll take the easy way out and bought another MPU from you on Saturday.

#3330 71 days ago

would anyone have Bally Coin slide Assy they would be able to sell me? I am trying to put together a pretty hacked up coin door on my Frontier. thanks!

20220920_195339- (resized).jpgCapture (resized).JPG

1 week later
#3331 64 days ago

Another problem just cropped up this afternoon. I have a Stern Wild Fyre (MPU-100) that I bought recently that was working. Got it home, stripped and cleaned the playfield, remediated some small alkaline damage (I hope), and fired it up. This was two weeks ago. Game booted, got all seven flashes, displays work, goes into attract mode. All tests with the coin door button pass: switches, solenoids, sounds, etc. But it would not start a game even with credits on it. Switch #6, Credit Button, shows up in Switch Test.

Now this afternoon, game won't boot, gets the flicker on the MPU LED at power up, a long pause and one flash, or sometimes shows flicker, flash, pause, flash, flash, and that's it. Voltage readings at all test points on the power supply board are correct, and before it quit booting all test points on all boards were correct.

I have replaced U7, U8 and U10 with no change. Do you think that I still could have some lingering alkaline cancer or perhaps is there something else i could try? Should I bite the bullet and buy a Weebly and turn this MPU into a rectangular frisbee? Please see pics below. Thanks.

20220927_220205 (resized).jpg20220927_220210 (resized).jpg20220927_220222 (resized).jpg20220927_220226 (resized).jpg20220927_220232 (resized).jpg20220927_220236 (resized).jpg20220927_220301 (resized).jpg
#3332 63 days ago

You'd have to check each trace with your meter to see if the corrosion has interrupted the Circuits

There looks to still be corrosion in the pics

Did you use the SnoBowl to clean it?

#3333 63 days ago

ive repaired boards with much worse corrosion... which are still in use on both my star treks.

#3334 63 days ago

Unless you enjoy board work and head scrstching I would just get a new board.

#3335 63 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You'd have to check each trace with your meter to see if the corrosion has interrupted the Circuits
There looks to still be corrosion in the pics
Did you use the SnoBowl to clean it?

I see an AMI chip, I know where I would start.

#3336 62 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Did you use the SnoBowl to clean it?

No, just the usual vinegar & distilled water and 99% alcohol rinse. Not familiar with SnoBowl. You mean the toilet bowl cleaner?

Quoted from gdonovan:

I see an AMI chip, I know where I would start.

Bought some used 6821s from a good friend, now I'm up to 6 flashes. 43.3 VDC on TP5 on P/S board. Checking further.

#3337 62 days ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

No, just the usual vinegar & distilled water and 99% alcohol rinse. Not familiar with SnoBowl. You mean the toilet bowl cleaner?

The ZEP gel stuff from Home Depot is awesome, does a great job.

#3338 62 days ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

now I'm up to 6 flashes

You won't get the 7th flash on the bench unless you provide 43V solenoid voltage or by temporarily jumpering the top of R17 and the top of R23.

#3339 62 days ago

Good news!
I have a '77 Bally Eight Ball so I decided to at least try its AS-2518-17 in the Wild Fyre and see what happens. Lo and behold the MPU in the EB is a MPU-100 also. Both boards had 9316A roms in U2 and U6 so I switched them and it works 100%!
Come play it at The York Show.

#3341 58 days ago

I have a Six Million Dollar Man machine that I just finished restoring the cabinet. I put the machine back together and it worked great. I did remove the batteries and installed a remote battery box since then. The machine still worked fine but now when I turn on the switch, the backbox lights up but the score displays do not and the machine doesn't go through it's normal startup sounds and lights. Per the manual in the troubleshooting area, it mentions for me to look for the green LED light on the A4 MPU board to flash seven times. If there is no light, it says to replace the MPU Module A4. My green LED light does not light up at all. Do I replace the MPU? Any other things I should look for before going that route? If I need to replace the MPU, where do you guys suggest I look for one of these (AS-2518-35-module less program memory or AS-2962-2 Complete Module)? About how much to they cost usually?

#3342 58 days ago
Quoted from pkurfess:

I have a Six Million Dollar Man machine that I just finished restoring the cabinet. I put the machine back together and it worked great. I did remove the batteries and installed a remote battery box since then. The machine still worked fine but now when I turn on the switch, the backbox lights up but the score displays do not and the machine doesn't go through it's normal startup sounds and lights. Per the manual in the troubleshooting area, it mentions for me to look for the green LED light on the A4 MPU board to flash seven times. If there is no light, it says to replace the MPU Module A4. My green LED light does not light up at all. Do I replace the MPU? Any other things I should look for before going that route? If I need to replace the MPU, where do you guys suggest I look for one of these (AS-2518-35-module less program memory or AS-2962-2 Complete Module)? About how much to they cost usually?

Double check all your connectors. Are they going to the right pins on the boards, and is everything lined up correctly with the connectors? Measure the voltage at the test points on the rectifier board and compare to the values in the manual.

#3343 57 days ago
Quoted from pkurfess:

If there is no light, it says to replace the MPU Module A4.

Do NOT replace the MPU board until you determine where the game is losing power. The issue is likely upstream. Follow Nokoro's advice first.

#3344 57 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Double check all your connectors. Are they going to the right pins on the boards, and is everything lined up correctly with the connectors? Measure the voltage at the test points on the rectifier board and compare to the values in the manual.

I usually work on EM's so the SS machines are newer to me. Where would I be measuring the voltage please? Visual?

#3345 57 days ago
Quoted from pkurfess:

I usually work on EM's so the SS machines are newer to me. Where would I be measuring the voltage please? Visual?

Check the manual via ipdb if you dont have it, for testpoints and voltage values

#3346 57 days ago
Quoted from pkurfess:

I usually work on EM's so the SS machines are newer to me. Where would I be measuring the voltage please? Visual?

Various test points on the boards - here are the expected values (start with the rectifier board, then the solenoid board, then the MPU):

https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Bally/Stern#Attract_Mode_Test_Points

#3347 57 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Various test points on the boards - here are the expected values (start with the rectifier board, then the solenoid board, then the MPU):
https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Bally/Stern#Attract_Mode_Test_Points

Thanks, I'll give this a try.

#3348 57 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Double check all your connectors. Are they going to the right pins on the boards, and is everything lined up correctly with the connectors? Measure the voltage at the test points on the rectifier board and compare to the values in the manual.

connectors are notorious with Bally's of this era...Nokoro is 100% correct...keep your money in your pocket for now

#3349 57 days ago

I thought this would generate vast amusement for our knowledgeable board members.

20221004_192709 (resized).jpg
#3350 57 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

I thought this would generate vast amusement for our knowledgeable board members.
[quoted image]

There's a fine line between amusement.....and terror.

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