Hey everyone, I've got a weird issue going on with my Harlem Globetrotters, I'm hoping someone can help me with!

Game plays fine when I first turn it on. Play a few games. All good.

Walk away, leaving machine on. Go play another pin. Come back to Harlem, and all solenoids are dead.

Figured it was a fuse. Whatever. Turn it off, come back to it later. Turns on like normal; start a game, all sols working as they should. Play a complete game. All good. Go to start another game right after it; same issue as earlier, no solenoids firing.

What gives? Any ideas?

Follow the Bally standard and leave it as a fast blow. To use a slow blow requires a lower amperage fuse to compensate and it should be measured/calculated. Bally had better design engineers than Stern. 7.5A slow blow on the solenoid rail??
I think I'm also using a 5A fast blow on my Seawitch though admittedly I don't have higher current coils on the upper flippers.
But anyway this is a Bally specific board.
It's more about catching shorted flippers, knockers and coin door coils.

The 5a fuse sucks hard at catching knocker issues, they are always burned up, chime coils too. Go back in time and make bally DC side fuse the cabinet coils, argh, that would have saved a lot of driver boards and coils.

6a for three flippers I think is from the 6803 era, but the solenoid circuit and load is pretty much identical in that system.

I have amassed quite a lot of junk boards and looking over original bally rectifier boards it seems most of them had originally been stuffed with 4A slow blow instead of fast for the 12v fuse. I got quite a few with the identical old ass spring loaded wire type of slow fuse. Where the glob of low temp metal melts and a spring rips the contact away. Quite a few look like the the original HV fuses where 1/4a slow as well. Hard to say for sure after 40 years has past. I wonder if they had trouble with the large capacitor charging blowing out fuses? Never had any trouble with the fast ones though and that is what the documentation calls for. Plus they are cheaper.

Some of the stern rectifier boards are silk screen printed with different fuse values too.

You're going to have to get the meter out and see where the issue originates. My first instinct is a wonky connector or fuse holder but that seems unlikely since it would probably get wonky when things are knocking around in there. You can always put it in coil test mode and try the "wiggle test" on the involved connectors and fuse holders (don't forget the under the PF fuse)

Hi Quench--

First off, thank you for your response. And apologies for the newb moment on the diodes (I'll read up on them some so I don't ask and do as much silly things).

I tested TP2 on the MPU and it read as 13.5vDC ± 0.3.

If I'm reading the schematics correctly (which one should not assume) TP2 on the MPU should be 11.9vDC unregulated.

edit: I changed ~13.5vDC to ~13.5vDC ± 0.3 to 13.5vDC ± 0.3. Just wanted to not confuse everyone with wonky vernacular. If I ever do it, please let me know as I prefer to be exact and follow proper terminology.

You are reading the schematics correct, but the schematics are wrong!

The rectifier board on its own will output around 11.9vDC on that voltage rail.
The solenoid driver board has a very large capacitor at C23 which filters that supply rail. So once the solenoid driver board is connected to the system the C23 capacitor stores energy and brings up the voltage on that rail typically between 14.5vDC to 16.5vDC

With the machine OFF, disconnect the 25 pin J3 connector off the solenoid driver board. Power on the machine and measure the voltage at test point TP3 on the rectifier board.

First pictures I've seen of the Haggis Fathom, it least ones from a customer delivery. It's a bit on the blue side, but it doesn't make me want it any less.

More pics here: https://www.knapparcade.org/post/unboxing-of-the-first-haggis-fathom-revisited-mermaid-edition

Fathom (resized).jpg

Thanks for sharing, but too much blue for me!

"a bit"??? I agree, it's the coolest remake in a long time, but that game makes the sky look beige!

The mermaid edition says it's all RGB lights, so I expect those colors to change during gameplay or be selectable or something.

This was strange to me because it wasn't consistent and I'm scratching my head. Something tells me we (really, you) have narrowed the problem down.

I did as instructed and my first readings were in the -9±1 range (on the 2000m setting--sorry I've got a cheapo DMM) but it continued to go up over time. My last reading was at -30±1 (after perhaps a minute) and it seemed as though it was going to continue going up. I turned the machine off because I became concerned at the inconsistent (and rising) reading. I was getting a "1" on the 200m setting and in the hundredths on the 20 setting. (I probably need to invest in a better DMM.)

NOTE: the device read with a negative sign which is what I'm not understanding. I would have expected a positive value and I double-checked (and triple- and quadruple-checked) this because I didn't understand if I was doing something wrong.

Once again I greatly appreciate your help.

I have a big of an odd one here, with my Flash Gordon in that when the machine has been on for 45-60 mins the lower right flipper stops flipping. not really seen that one before?

check for cracked solder joints on the connectors at the left side of the driver board.

nice, i thought it could be a bad SDB but wasn't sure on how to narrow it.

The 2000m scale setting in DC voltage mode on the meter specifies you want to read voltages up to 2000 milli-volts aka 2.0 volts. Any higher voltage under measurement and you won't get a proper reading. Since you're measuring a voltage that will potentially be as high as 16 volts, set to the meter to the 20 scale in DC voltage mode.

IMG_0004a256.png

Apologies for the delay...you know, life stuff.

I attempted to do this again, removing the J3 connector from the solenoid driver board and testing TP3 on the rectifier board. As I previously mentioned the voltage continues to go up as the game is on but there is definitely something wrong here. Here's a pic of the DMM (excuse the lousy DMM--I didn't realize there were different quality meters and perhaps I should just go get a good one) reading for TP3 after the game had been powered on for ~8 minutes:

DMM reading - Rectifier TP3 (resized).jpg

I did notice that TP3 on the rectifier was bent. I'm unsure if that makes a difference but I figured I'd show how this board looks because I was wondering if that is at all my issue (on top of other things).

Rectifier Board Test Points (resized).jpg

Once again, I really, really appreciate any advice given and if you're ever in Seattle I'll gladly buy you your drink (beer, wine, whisky, coffee, etc.) of choice.

What did it read at initially? Where are you sticking the black lead of the multimeter? Click up to the next higher volts DC range and check again, it does not normally pass 20v, but some cheap meters don't give you any hint you are out of range.

If it still reads zero volts, switch over your meter to AC volts and probe across top-right and bot-left terminals of BR2 as we are looking at in your picture. Should see ~12v AC. If still zero volts, probe from BR2 top right lug to the bottom F3 fuse clip. If you now see AC volts the fuse or fuse clips are bad.

If you still see no AC volts you have to check the transformer tap wires.

The black lead on the MM was on the ground braid at the front of the head of the cabinet; actually it was on the screw that screwed it into the head.

Paragon Ground Braid (resized).jpg

Click up to the next higher volts DC range and check again, it does not normally pass 20v, but some cheap meters don't give you any hint you are out of range.

I checked the range on 200m, 2000m, 20 and 200. The readings for TP3 were...

200m: out of range
2000m: -046
20: -0.04
200: out of range

Just to make certain I wasn't going crazy I also measured the remaining test points. They were:

TP1: -22.2vDC
TP2: 161±0.1vDC
TP4: 28.5vDC
TP5: 18.4vDC

If it still reads zero volts, switch over your meter to AC volts and probe across top-right and bot-left terminals of BR2 as we are looking at in your picture. Should see ~12v AC. If still zero volts, probe from BR2 top right lug to the bottom F3 fuse clip. If you now see AC volts the fuse or fuse clips are bad.
If you still see no AC volts you have to check the transformer tap wires.

Before I move forward with this part let me make certain I understand because I don't want to mess up and give you false information. Are these the two terminals (top-right and bottom-left) you're referring to on BR2 (circled in red)? And then based on that, if that still reads 12vAC I should probe (again, AC) the top-right of the circled red and the bottom of the F3 fuse clip (below, not shown in pic)?

Rectifier Board Test Points - Copy (resized).jpg

I apologize for the likely frustration (you and everyone in the thread) and greatly thank you for your patience.

Yes. Measure red circles with multimeter set on volts ac.

Those read as 13.0 ± 0.1 vAC.

Here's a picture of the lower portion of the board. As I was taking this picture I noticed what I *think* is the wrong size connector. It's connected correctly but I think I'm going to re-pin that one with a correct sized one eventually. (One thing at a time, right?)

Rectifier Board - Lower (resized).jpg

Top Left Connector - Wrong Size (resized).jpg

sounds like the bridge is bad, blown open circuit, if you AC volts going in and no dc coming out. Your 20a fuse clip is in rough shape. That IDC connector will probably burn up unless you are going to use LEDs.

The rectifier board and its connectors likely needs rebuilt/replaced.

Well, that's too bad but not totally unexpected. I'm seeing several different prices for what appears to be the same thing: a replacement AS-2518-18 board. When I see this I assume the components are the reason. Any recommendations here?

And thank you very much for your help on this!

If it was me I would ask the local guys if they had a free original varo bridge rectifier. Easy to de solder & replace with a old original. I have many over the years & more from new board installs where the originals were extremely bad shape. I also just give away a little heat sink compound (white) since I have a large tube still going on 20+ years.

IMG_0331 (resized).JPG

Get Andrews.

https://nvram.weebly.com/bally---stern-rectifier.html

Very easy to assemble, very robust.

Yes all the new replacements are good if you do not mind doing the work for wires or doing a bare board. Over the hundreds of Bally & Stern pinball machines I have worked on. I look to see what option is the best for service of the old power systems.

my first test on every bally/stern i buy, no question asked

The rectifiers are more robust, fuse retainers new and all the diodes fresh.

For $30 a steal in my book.

Somebody has replaced the original (crimped) connector with an ICD type, which is per se not a problem, but ... Also take a look at the third connector, which is partly replaced by soldering the wires directly to the board.

This is not uncommon since these connectors are usually burnt, they are under-dimensioned, Bally later switched to a better solution.

I would recommend to redo that part of the world. Perhaps its a good idea to replace the whole board. There are several aftermarket replacements available for a reasonable price. Also, all these aftermarket boards have bigger rectifier bridges than the original. I already used several of them, all were fine. I did not yet try the weebly board linked above as it sems to be not available in Germany. I am sure it will do its job. I have also seen a "solderless" version of this board (which is not available in Germany, too)

I've got one more idea for you: After you have rebuild and repaired and refurbished and redone (and so on) everything, consider changing at least the GI to LED. There are LED available nowadays that really look and shine like incandescent bulbs. This will reduce the curent signifficantly and your new connectors and rectifier bridges will live eternally.

Swapping to LED on the GI helps a lot.

With your meter set to DC mode on the 20V scale, what do you measure on the BR2 output - black meter probe at the circled black leg, red meter probe on the circled red leg?
Do this measurement with J3 still disconnected.

RectifierBrd1a256.png

That looks clean! Mata Hari or Star Trek?

First off I really must say this: you guys are awesome and I love this community! It's really nice for someone like me who is trying to learn but nobody nearby (that I know of) to learn from. Thank you very much to all.

Between what I've read and what I've now been told it seems I can reduce the overall power consumption if I change out the displays to newer LED displays and to replace the GI.

For the LED GI I either need to have a modern lamp board (such as Alltek) or I can purchase an adapter. The pricing seems to be $120 vs $45 respectively so I guess I just need to consider whether upgrading to a new board makes sense.

Regarding the LED displays I think I can immediately put them in without issue, but I will be able to disconnect the HV from them as the newer displays don't use them. Of course, the cost of new displays is high so it's something to consider.

It read as 13.5 ± 0.2 vDC.

You dont need to change the lamp driver board to LED the GI, just the controlled lamps

So if the output of bridge BR2 measures 13.5vDC with J3 disconnected from the solenoid driver board, meanwhile you measured 13.5vDC at TP2 on the MPU board with J3 connected, this suggests you possibly have a bad capacitor at C23 on the solenoid driver board, or there's a bad connection to that capacitor.

Reconnect J3 to the solenoid driver board.
Power up the game.
Measure the voltage directly on the C23 capacitor - it's the big one in the middle of the solenoid driver board which is the top right board in the headbox. With your multi-meter set to 20v DC scale, put the black meter probe on the right leg of that capacitor and the red meter probe on the left leg of that capacitor. What do you measure?

Ok, I reconnected J3 on the solenoid driver board and tested C23 which looks significantly different than others I've seen--photos below.

It reads as 13.42 ± 0.2 vDC.

Here's shots of the board and I tried to get a pic of the specific C23 capacitor.

Paragon Solenoid Driver Board (resized).jpg

Paragon Solenoid C23 (resized).jpg

That's not the original C23 capacitor, someone's changed it and installed it upside down - and potentially installed it backwards (they are polarised (directional)). Can you get the camera in to take a picture of how the capacitor is connected?

This suggests the capacitor is faulty. But something doesn't smell right. You originally mentioned the game was actually powering up and playing? Does it still?
When you tested the DC voltage on the BR2 bridge, you did have the J3 connector (top right corner of the head-box) disconnected?
Also, just confirm your game is a Paragon?

I'll get that picture in about 10 minutes! From memory there are black and red wires running from the leads but I couldn't necessarily see underneath.

This suggests the capacitor is faulty. But something doesn't smell right. You originally mentioned the game was actually powering up and playing? Does it still?
When you tested the DC voltage on the BR2 bridge, you did have the J3 connector (top right corner of the head-box) disconnected?
Also, just confirm your game is a Paragon?

The game powers on, the LED flashes 7 times, the solenoids all fire (except the knocker as one of the wires has been disconnected/pulled off before I got it), and a game will start up and play until the left flipper button is pressed.

Yes, when I tested the BR2 bridge J3 was disconnected.

Yes, this is a Paragon.

Pictures below.

I can clearly see the black wire from the negative lead going to the left side and the red wire from the positive lead going to the right side.

For Orientation:
IMG_0840 - Copy (resized).jpg

Where the red lead ends:
IMG_0839 - Copy (resized).jpg

Where the black lead ends (apologies, this was upside-down so the bottom of that capacitor is pointing down):
IMG_0837 - Copy (resized).jpg

I was just looking at the Solenoid component parts list in the manual and it looks like C23 is supposed to be a 11700uF 20v capacitor.

Am I reading the one in my board wrong or does that say 1,500uF and 75v? Wouldn't that be significantly underpowered?

Do me a favor:
On the lower left flipper there are two switches stacked on the flippers end of stroke (EOS) switch.
At idle, the first switch is normally closed while the second switch is normally open. When you press the flipper button the rotating flipper crank changes both of these switches to the opposite state (the closed switch opens and the opened switch closes).

Turn the game off while you're installing the card to prevent any mishaps.

When you measured the 13.2vDC on the capacitor, you had the black meter probe on the lower side of the capacitor and the red meter probe on the top leg of the capacitor?

Yes! Very good pickup... I originally thought it was 15,000uF without paying close enough attention. That is very likely your problem. You can probably ignore the flipper tests I just mentioned. So the voltage measurements did point to something with that capacitor..

When you measured the 13.2vDC on the capacitor, you had the black meter probe on the lower side of the capacitor and the red meter probe on the top leg of the capacitor?

Yes, I connected the red probe on the top leg and black probe on the bottom leg.

Yes! Very good pickup... I originally thought it was 15,000uF without paying close enough attention. That is very likely your problem. You can probably ignore the flipper tests I just mentioned. So the voltage measurements did point to something with that capacitor..

Ok, great!

I'm going to scour my area for someone who may have this capacitor on hand but if they don't I'll probably be ordering from GPE. I think this is the correct ones for C23 and C26 respectively (assuming I should just replace both):

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CERH-15000uF-25V

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CEA-150uF-350V-RMD

This would have been the better choice for C23 but he's out of stock:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CERS-15000uF-25V

I'm not sure if GPE is back online or when he will be, he's had some family stuff to deal with.
You can otherwise try Big Daddy or Mouser / Digikey.
https://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/repairkits/bally_kits.htm#b-regcap

Is there concern in going significantly over on voltage? There's a local place that has 15,000uF 63v capacitors in stock and I seem to remember this should be fine although the memories of my classes from the 80s have been eroded by hops and grapes.

Edit: my research sounds like I technically can do this but at the expense of overall lifetime of the capacitor.

Bally used cardboard fuse holders under the playfield which might need to be replaced. Also I have seen fuse clips become loose & just need to be squeezed closed a bit. Just had a Vector that would go dead during game play & needed it sqeezed.