(Topic ID: 85292)

Bally/Stern AS-2518 Club !


By mof

6 years ago



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  • Latest reply 1 day ago by slochar
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homemade LEDs copy page 4.pdf (PDF preview)
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There are 2295 posts in this topic. You are on page 46 of 46.
#2251 27 days ago
Quoted from RoyGBev:

R3 is a 100K resistor in the 10's digit driver circuit. Try replacing that. The 100K resistors (R1,3,5,7,9, and 11) sometimes go bad, turning the digit off. R3 could be flaky on your board.

This was the solve. The display is working great again. Thanks, guys!

#2252 27 days ago

OK. Post flipper rebuild I have lost the Upper Left (Mini) Flipper on Paragon.

After rebuilds it was weak and not holding...after adjustment of the EOS (and Timing for the 2nd Switch), No Upper Flipper at all.

Any idea on what I screwed up here?

#2253 27 days ago

When the digit level shifter goes bad the digit will lock on bright. The 100k resistor will burn up fairly quickly when that happens. You can fit a half watt resistor which should survive the digit locking on, but ultimatley im pretty confident bad level shifter is the reason those 100k resistors goes bad. At least seems that way after fixing quite a few displays.

Digit always bright = level shifter
Digit always off = check 100k resistor.
If new 100k resistor and now the digit is now always bright = change the level shifter.
if digit always off and 100k resistor is good = change the digit driver.

#2254 22 days ago

Picked up a nice Future Spa today. Another member of the household approves.

DSC_2397 (resized).JPG
#2255 21 days ago

Any clue where to find the replacement part that attached the Bally/Stern drop target to the Link? I looked around but couldn't quite find them...

20200717_181229 (resized).jpg

#2258 19 days ago

While I do not want to reopen the no-LED vs LED debate...

I understand that putting "standard" LED (such as those "ONE") in controlled light/inserts due to the dimming effect not translating correctly is not recommended.
I understand there are 3 ways to use LEDs instead of incandescent light bulbs in inserts:
-Ghost buster LED with stock lamp board
-Early SS Bally/Stern LED Adapters using standard LED.
-Alltek Lamp Driver board or Weebly Lamp Driver Board with LED support using standard LED.
-Adding 470 ohm resistor to individual sockets

does that sound right? Any difference in results from each method?

#2259 19 days ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

While I do not want to reopen the no-LED vs LED debate...
I understand that putting "standard" LED (such as those "ONE") in controlled light/inserts due to the dimming effect not translating correctly is not recommended.
I understand there are 3 ways to use LEDs instead of incandescent light bulbs in inserts:
-Ghost buster LED with stock lamp board
-Early SS Bally/Stern LED Adapters using standard LED.
-Alltek Lamp Driver board using standard LED.
does that sound right?

Adding a resistor to individual sockets, been there and done that. 470 ohm works well.

#2260 19 days ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

While I do not want to reopen the no-LED vs LED debate...
I understand that putting "standard" LED (such as those "ONE") in controlled light/inserts due to the dimming effect not translating correctly is not recommended.
I understand there are 3 ways to use LEDs instead of incandescent light bulbs in inserts:
-Ghost buster LED with stock lamp board
-Early SS Bally/Stern LED Adapters using standard LED.
-Alltek Lamp Driver board using standard LED.
does that sound right?

NEW Bally / Stern Lamp Driver Board with LED support
https://nvram.weebly.com/new-pcbs.html

Also available as a blank board for a fun, fairly easy DIY assembly,

#2261 19 days ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

-Ghost buster LED with stock lamp board

Are these LEDs proven to work without flickering in these classic Bally/Stern games? I'm not seeing anything in the description of the Ghost Buster LED range stating they resolve it. Note, ghosting is an unrelated issue to later games.

#2262 19 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Adding a resistor to individual sockets, been there and done that. 470 ohm works well.

Forgot about that one, added.

Quoted from emsrph:

NEW Bally / Stern Lamp Driver Board with LED support
https://nvram.weebly.com/new-pcbs.html
Also available as a blank board for a fun, fairly easy DIY assembly,

Right, Weebly is back from his break though i do not see a DIY for that board ath? added.

Quoted from Quench:

Are these LEDs proven to work without flickering in these classic Bally/Stern games? I'm not seeing anything in the description of the Ghost Buster LED range stating they resolve it. Note, ghosting is an unrelated issue to later games.

That is one solution i had gathered from reading other post. the LED themselves have a resistor in them providing a similar result that an adding a resistor to the socket and using standard LED. I have tried in one of my game and it looks fine but I do not think i am the most "sensitive" to LED flickering?

#2263 19 days ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

That is one solution i had gathered from reading other post. the LED themselves have a resistor in them providing a similar result that an adding a resistor to the socket and using standard LED. I have tried in one of my game and it looks fine but I do not think i am the most "sensitive" to LED flickering?

Ok. I'm surprised they aren't marketing those LEDs with that feature then.

Quoted from hisokajp:

I have tried in one of my game and it looks fine but I do not think i am the most "sensitive" to LED flickering?

The flickering is very obvious - you'd notice it if there was an issue.

#2264 19 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Ok. I'm surprised they aren't marketing those LEDs with that feature then.

gutted one, showing the inside, i can ask Terry for a cutsheet for them.

20200720_134110 (resized).jpg20200720_134329 (resized).jpg
#2265 18 days ago

Keep in mind that you would technically need TWO resistors -
One to provide the load across the feed to the driver (i.e. between the two pins), and then one in series with the LED for limiting current/voltage to the LED, to avoid blowing it up. It looks like that IS the case with the second picture there.

#2266 18 days ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Keep in mind that you would technically need TWO resistors -
One to provide the load across the feed to the driver (i.e. between the two pins), and then one in series with the LED for limiting current/voltage to the LED, to avoid blowing it up. It looks like that IS the case with the second picture there.

That is exactly how I make my own LED lights for about 5 cents each. 150 ohm in series and 470 ohm across the pins. I also make a no-flicker lamp for GI using 2 SMD's and one resistor...for pennies each! Yeah, I have more time than money!

#2267 18 days ago
Quoted from JethroP:

That is exactly how I make my own LED lights for about 5 cents each. 150 ohm in series and 470 ohm across the pins. I also make a no-flicker lamp for GI using 2 SMD's and one resistor...for pennies each! Yeah, I have more time than money!

Interesting... How do you package them ?

#2268 18 days ago
Quoted from JethroP:

I also make a no-flicker lamp for GI using 2 SMD's and one resistor...

i would be interested in that solution... the Comet 2SMD looks great in GI but the flickering when hitting flipper buttons, while short ticklet my OCD... I have ordered a 5V PSU to try that out but maybe there is something less invasive?

#2269 18 days ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

gutted one, showing the inside, i can ask Terry for a cutsheet for them.

Looks like ones a 10 ohm resistor and the other a 15 ohm resistor. I have a feeling they're used in series inside the package to spread power consumption across the two resistors.
Potentially the capacitor in the LED might give it some persistence as another way to limit the flicker. Would need to understand their circuit in the LED better.

This is how I used to put the load resistor in the LED but it's time consuming and difficult with LEDs that are flooded with glue in the base:

output_8xk02S.gif

#2270 18 days ago

I tore a big pile of LED's apart a few years back. Most of the anti-flicker ones out there have some kind of rectifier in there, plus a capacitor, to smooth out 60hz flickering and ghosting from poorly timed lamp matrix software.

I know the previous owner of Comet had experimented with an additional load resistor for dealing with the Bally/Stern type issue, which is a completely different situation. I don't think he ever had a design that panned out to his satisfaction. Something about the manufacturers never really grasping the concept I think.

-Hans

#2271 18 days ago
Quoted from HHaase:

Something about the manufacturers never really grasping the concept I think.

I'm not surprised. Years ago I tried to get a Chinese manufacturer to make me LEDs with the load resistor built in and I sent them that animated gif above. They still didn't get it.

Quoted from HHaase:

have some kind of rectifier in there

The mini rectifier is there so the LEDs work on both phases of an A.C supply (i.e. in G.I circuits) and don't have polarity in DC circuits.

#2272 17 days ago

Here's what I've been doing for my games...

homemade LEDs copy page 1.pdfhomemade LEDs copy page 2.pdfhomemade LEDs copy page 3.pdfhomemade LEDs copy page 4.pdf
#2273 17 days ago
Quoted from matiou:

Interesting... How do you package them ?

I think you are asking about selling them? I don't make them to sell (or package them). Only my own use. See above I have provided instructions.

Quoted from hisokajp:

i would be interested in that solution.

I am providing instructions above. Hope it helps.

#2274 17 days ago
Quoted from JethroP:

I think you are asking about selling them? I don't make them to sell (or package them). Only my own use. See above I have provided instructions.

No, I was wondering how you were packaging the led and resistors into a bulb... your instructions replied to my questions! great documentation by the way, thanks for sharing!

#2275 16 days ago

Greatings to all,

I'm finishing restoring a space invaders, and the MPU its crazy.
I do have all the led flickers ok , but after a minute it start doing some kind of self test as you can see in the video.
Yesterday sometimes didn't wanted to boot, and sometimes I got all the 7 led flashers, but then It locks, I mean no attract mode, just a number for lights turned on steady and nothing more.

All male and female connectors were changed (on the entire machine) , I have 5,2v 11v and 43v on MPU test points. All the components on the rectifier board and solenoid board were already serviced / replaced.

Removed all the ICs socketed on the MPU and installed again , with no change.

ICs sockets on the MPU are the original ones, I have not replaced them.

What is that test? and why starts after boot?

Will appreciate any help.

here is the video.

#2276 16 days ago

Without a coin cell are those two leads in the holder touching and shorting out? Some can. Do you have another 5101 chip? I would try swapping that. Also was there any prior battery damage on the board? If so it can mess up the contacts inside the DIP sockets.

#2277 16 days ago
Quoted from arqpuebla:

Greatings to all,
I'm finishing restoring a space invaders, and the MPU its crazy.
I do have all the led flickers ok , but after a minute it start doing some kind of self test as you can see in the video.
Yesterday sometimes didn't wanted to boot, and sometimes I got all the 7 led flashers, but then It locks, I mean no attract mode, just a number for lights turned on steady and nothing more.
All male and female connectors were changed (on the entire machine) , I have 5,2v 11v and 43v on MPU test points. All the components on the rectifier board and solenoid board were already serviced / replaced.
Removed all the ICs socketed on the MPU and installed again , with no change.
ICs sockets on the MPU are the original ones, I have not replaced them.
What is that test? and why starts after boot?
Will appreciate any help.
here is the video.

Note: unplug the bottom left cpu connector to the cabinet switches.
1) reboot game wait... does it go in test?
A1) yes, then problem is on cpu switch buffer components...
A2) no, then problem is in the wiring, test switch that is part of the cabinet.

#2278 16 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Without a coin cell are those two leads in the holder touching and shorting out

No, test with the battery too.

Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Do you have another 5101 chip?

Could try with the one in my xenon or EbD
. Will try!

Quoted from vec-tor:

Note: unplug the bottom left cpu connector to the cabinet switches.

Yes I did, same results. Disconnected the coin door too.

Now I'm suspecting about connector on solenoid board, and mpu that drives the switch test button.

Quote from pinwiki

It is worth mentioning that the self test switch, which is located on the inside of the coin door and used to enter tests, audits, and bookkeeping, is not part of the switch matrix. A single signal is sent to the self test switch from the U10 PIA on the CPU board via connection A4J3-1, and returned to ground via a connection A3J2-7 on the solenoid driver board.

Will try tomorrow!

Thanks for your inputs!

#2279 16 days ago

Not sure if you guys have seen this thread? Replacing the M6800 in a Stern MPU100 with an Arduino

This applies to the Bally AS-2518 (-17, -35) boards too because I guess the Stern (MPU100, MPU200) ones are identical. Basically you plug an Arduino into the J5 port next to the CPU (meant for diagnostics) and you can control all parts of the game. It lets you re-write the game rules, scoring, all kinds of things. You effectively disregard the M6800 CPU, all the ROMs and RAM chips and just interact with the game hardware directly (via the PIA chips on the MPU board).

There is a lot of underlying leg-work to get communication working right, timings according to the Theory of Operations manuals, etc. dickhamill wrote an entire operating system to handle the underlying hardware interactions, to the point where you can flash the Arduino with a base pinball game and it boots up and can do test/audit mode. He even already has new game rules working for Stern Stars (which he's dubbed Stern Stars 2020). He's also working on (or completed?) Bally Blackjack 2020. I'm early on working on Bally Playboy 2020.

#2280 16 days ago
Quoted from Dandelock:

Not sure if you guys have seen this thread? Replacing the M6800 in a Stern MPU100 with an Arduino
This applies to the Bally AS-2518 (-17, -35) boards too because I guess the Stern (MPU100, MPU200) ones are identical. Basically you plug an Arduino into the J5 port next to the CPU (meant for diagnostics) and you can control all parts of the game. It lets you re-write the game rules, scoring, all kinds of things. You effectively disregard the M6800 CPU, all the ROMs and RAM chips and just interact with the game hardware directly (via the PIA chips on the MPU board).
There is a lot of underlying leg-work to get communication working right, timings according to the Theory of Operations manuals, etc. dickhamill wrote an entire operating system to handle the underlying hardware interactions, to the point where you can flash the Arduino with a base pinball game and it boots up and can do test/audit mode. He even already has new game rules working for Stern Stars (which he's dubbed Stern Stars 2020). He's also working on (or completed?) Bally Blackjack 2020. I'm early on working on Bally Playboy 2020.

I'll need to reach out to dickhamil since he may not be aware of the changes and updates already out there for BlackJack.

#2281 16 days ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

i would be interested in that solution... the Comet 2SMD looks great in GI but the flickering when hitting flipper buttons, while short ticklet my OCD... I have ordered a 5V PSU to try that out but maybe there is something less invasive?

I'd love to hear about your GI after this conversion from AC to DC and how well it works. I feel like it's the only remaining thing that drives me bananas on my Future Spa restore. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/future-spa-father-and-sons-second-restoration

#2282 16 days ago
Quoted from jsa:

I'd love to hear about your GI after this conversion from AC to DC and how well it works. I feel like it's the only remaining thing that drives me bananas on my Future Spa restore. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/future-spa-father-and-sons-second-restoration

Looks like you got in there pretty deep in your thread I was going to try a simple 5V/10A PSU (https://tinyurl.com/y5ljumye) plugged onto the service outlet feeding the GI pin (taken out of the rectifier board connector) and see if that provide stable GI lighting.
It powers GI 2SMD just fine during test with single bulb, just need to get around to set it up on the game for the whole string(s).

#2283 15 days ago

Question about the rectifier board...... When the machine is off, playfield and backbox harnesses disconnected from the rectifier board, should I get continuity between the GND test point of the rectifier board and the metal plate underneath ? Because I don't......

#2284 15 days ago
Quoted from matiou:

Question about the rectifier board...... When the machine is off, playfield and backbox harnesses disconnected from the rectifier board, should I get continuity between the GND test point of the rectifier board and the metal plate underneath ? Because I don't......

Nope, I don't think so.
There in nothing to connect to via the rectifier board.
It's mounted on plastic stand-offs and the bridge rectifiers are not conductive to the outer casing.

#2285 14 days ago
Quoted from matiou:

Question about the rectifier board...... When the machine is off, playfield and backbox harnesses disconnected from the rectifier board, should I get continuity between the GND test point of the rectifier board and the metal plate underneath ? Because I don't......

There's no direct wire connection between the rectifier board and the plate underneath. The ground connection between the two happens through the chassis ground braid that the metal plate screws to and the line cord ground wire on the J2 connector at the rectifier board.

#2286 13 days ago

Thank you both!

1 week later
#2287 7 days ago

Working on a medusa and have a weird issue going on. Top Sling shot activates Lower slingshot coil. Would a bad diode do this?

#2288 7 days ago
Quoted from pacman11:

Working on a medusa and have a weird issue going on. Top Sling shot activates Lower slingshot coil. Would a bad diode do this?

It could. Are any other switches closed when this happens?

It could also be a short to ground somewhere in that column of the switch matrix. Check those switches and others in the column for one that may be touching something it shouldn’t, like a lamp socket, ground braid, etc.

#2289 7 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

It could. Are any other switches closed when this happens?
It could also be a short to ground somewhere in that column of the switch matrix. Check those switches and others in the column for one that may be touching something it shouldn’t, like a lamp socket, ground braid, etc.

Good ideas, thanks I’ll double check all that..

#2290 6 days ago

Game: Bally - Rolling Stones.
How can it be that one switch line in the switch matrix is very sensitive to the touch?
I mean, if I hold the ground (side of the cabinet) and you touch the I5 line, the lower pop bumper gets activated.
Not just a single puls, but it can even hold it down.
The background sound also change.
At one point it gives irratic behaviour of the lower pop bumper even when not touched.

I know this kind of behaviour is typical to Bally games at some point.
I just want to know why this happens and why only at the I5 line and not any other.
I removed the switch caps at the pop bumper switches, which caused bad/slow behaviour of the pop bumpers.

#2291 6 days ago

That is an odd problem for sure. Is the game power properly wired and grounded?

#2292 6 days ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

I just want to know why this happens and why only at the I5 line and not any other.

Find return lines I3 to I7 under the playfield, what happens when you body ground them and observe the fast react solenoids on those switch return lines? I think you'll find they do the same thing, i.e. it's not just I5.

#2293 5 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Find return lines I3 to I7 under the playfield, what happens when you body ground them and observe the fast react solenoids on those switch return lines? I think you'll find they do the same thing, i.e. it's not just I5.

You are correct.
I've tested this and it works extra sensitive on targets when thouched at the junction of the diode and capacitor.
I suppose that the best way is to replace the caps with brand new ones (not 30 year old ones) to avoid irratic behaviour.

#2294 1 day ago

I started a post about this problem I'm having with a buddy's Fireball Classic showing a stuck switch, I've isolated it to the Playfield but I'm pretty stumped on what to do next and hoped maybe one of you hard-core 2518 folks have seen something similar and can give me a nudge in the right direction.

Quick summation - stuck switch goes away if I unplugged J2 and if I simulate switches at J2 with a diode everything works as it should. I ohmed out the two lines going to the stuck switch and even with the switch completely disconnected it still shows as stuck. Any chance the PIA is actually the culprit even though my testing shows the problem to be on the playfield?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stuck-switch-that-isn-t-bally-fireball-classic

#2295 1 day ago

Swap the U10 and U11 PIA to test that theory. I doubt it will do anything, but you never know.

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