(Topic ID: 85292)

Bally/Stern AS-2518 Club !


By mof

6 years ago



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There are 2253 posts in this topic. You are on page 44 of 46.
#2151 43 days ago

I'm in the middle of an Eight Ball Deluxe restoration. I'm planning on taking the rectifier board and transformer off so that I can clean up this mounting plate and associated brackets....will let is soak in EvapoRust for a day or two and then clean/polish on my buffer wheel.

What can I do with the transformer itself? It's got years and years of dirt, grime and black carbon dust all over it from the playfield coils above it. Is there a safe way to clean the transformer? Thanx...

IMG_8409 (resized).jpg
#2152 42 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

What can I do with the transformer itself? It's got years and years of dirt, grime and black carbon dust all over it from the playfield coils above it. Is there a safe way to clean the transformer?

some good info here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/transformer-cleanup-painting-example

#2153 42 days ago

I think the HEP Thread also has Transformer restoration info buried in it, somewhere.

#2154 38 days ago

Got a local friend wanting to trade me his Stern Wild Fyre (mostly working) for my William's Stellar wars (fully working) condition is pretty much the same on both machines. I know how to work on machines and he doesnt.

Value seems to be pretty similar. Thoughts?

#2155 37 days ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

Got a local friend wanting to trade me his Stern Wild Fyre (mostly working) for my William's Stellar wars (fully working) condition is pretty much the same on both machines. I know how to work on machines and he doesnt.
Value seems to be pretty similar. Thoughts?

Just my opinion, but I would not make this trade. The sound on Wild Fyre is terrible. It's so bad that it makes the mediocre game play unbearable.

#2156 37 days ago

I just finished fixing a vocaizer board for a friend that is working on a Xenon. Replaced all the DIP sockets, cleaned all the ROM leads, replaced broken chip leads, and then the votlage regulator and diodes. Board seems to work fine now but CR1, CR2, CR3 get hot. Warmer than I am comfortable with. Is that really common on these? I read one post where someone installed 1n5401 instead and I'm leaning that way myself and may pull off the 1n4004 and upgrade them.

Just want it right before it goes back.

#2157 37 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I just finished fixing a vocaizer board for a friend that is working on a Xenon. Replaced all the DIP sockets, cleaned all the ROM leads, replaced broken chip leads, and then the votlage regulator and diodes. Board seems to work fine now but CR1, CR2, CR3 get hot. Warmer than I am comfortable with. Is that really common on these? I read one post where someone installed 1n5401 instead and I'm leaning that way myself and may pull off the 1n4004 and upgrade them.
Just want it right before it goes back.

Mine is the same way...

#2158 37 days ago

It is normal for these diodes to get hot.
I've even seen a board with a cooling element around them.

#2159 37 days ago

Thanks for the confirmation on how hot those run. I think it may be best to upgrade them to 1n5401 diodes then. Just don't want any trouble and I can tell that one of the prior ones was hot for so long it cracked in half when I took it out.

#2160 37 days ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

Got a local friend wanting to trade me his Stern Wild Fyre (mostly working) for my William's Stellar wars (fully working) condition is pretty much the same on both machines. I know how to work on machines and he doesnt.
Value seems to be pretty similar. Thoughts?

I own both machines. In my opinion Wild Fyre has more unique gameplay, while stellar wars as you know is a wide body, but feels like a big Flash, which I also own. Another opinion of mine, Williams sound has always been the best once they got a few solid state machines under their belt. I'd say if they are in comparable condition the value is probably close. Early Sterns are starting to earn a bit more respect in the pin world lately though. Not much help maybe but I do enjoy both machines. Because I own a flash I could see my Stellar Wars (or vice versa; Flash) going away while I kept my Wild Fyre.

#2161 37 days ago
Quoted from Chisel:

I own both machines. In my opinion Wild Fyre has more unique gameplay, while stellar wars as you know is a wide body, but feels like a big Flash, which I also own. Another opinion of mine, Williams sound has always been the best once they got a few solid state machines under their belt. I'd say if they are in comparable condition the value is probably close. Early Sterns are starting to earn a bit more respect in the pin world lately though. Not much help maybe but I do enjoy both machines. Because I own a flash I could see my Stellar Wars (or vice versa; Flash) going away while I kept my Wild Fyre.

I wasnt extremely connected to my Stellar Wars. I told my friend he could take the Stellar Wars and I'll fix up his Wild Fyre. If in six months he wants his Wild Fyre back he can just pay me for the parts I buy and we will swap back. He agreed. I'm kinda wierd as I'm partial to the goofy sounds of the early Sterns so that part doesnt bother me.

#2162 37 days ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

Got a local friend wanting to trade me his Stern Wild Fyre (mostly working) for my William's Stellar wars (fully working) condition is pretty much the same on both machines. I know how to work on machines and he doesnt.
Value seems to be pretty similar. Thoughts?

Wild Fyre all the way IMO.

The SB-100 in Wild Fyre usually has the high pitch tones. You can adjust it lower to sound like the later SB-100 games (example: Hot Hand). I did that in mine and put in a big bass-heavy speaker I had laying around, and positioned it so it can be felt through the side rails when playing. Cheap bass beats cheap squeaks.

#2163 37 days ago
Quoted from RoyGBev:

Wild Fyre all the way IMO.
The SB-100 in Wild Fyre usually has the high pitch tones. You can adjust it lower to sound like the later SB-100 games (example: Hot Hand). I did that in mine and put in a big bass-heavy speaker I had laying around, and positioned it so it can be felt through the side rails when playing. Cheap bass beats cheap squeaks.

I may have a cheap bass speaker laying around. Can you show me how you hooked it up? Im interested.

#2164 35 days ago

There is also a chimes ROM for wild fyre if you can source a chime box. It's a fun game.

#2165 35 days ago

I’m looking for suggestions on how to fix an arch rail on a Bally Paragon that won’t stay in the post. I’ve tried tightening it down but it just pops out instead of staying in. I was thinking maybe the nylon post was worn so I rotated it to use the unworn side but it didn’t help. Maybe take the rail out and bend it slightly?

EAE3DFD4-EBCD-4A49-9F2A-94631F65CBB6 (resized).jpeg
#2166 35 days ago
Quoted from kerokero:

I’m looking for suggestions on how to fix an arch rail on a Bally Paragon that won’t stay in the post. I’ve tried tightening it down but it just pops out instead of staying in. I was thinking maybe the nylon post was worn so I rotated it to use the unworn side but it didn’t help. Maybe take the rail out and bend it slightly?[quoted image]

You have to "shape" the round stock so as to fit into the posts...
Some times you have to feed the rail to the left or right to find the 'sweet spot'.

#2167 35 days ago

Swapped MPU with an alltek I had close by. But cant figure out the connector for the sound board. Usually they're keyed. This one is not. I have 2 extra header pins and didnt pay any attention to previous orientation.

Can anyone help?

20200607_184401 (resized).jpg
#2168 35 days ago

Pin 1 on sound board goes to Pin 1 on MPU.
The pins that are skipped are at the high end. (33, 34 I believe, going off of memory.)

#2169 35 days ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Pin 1 on sound board goes to Pin 1 on MPU.
The pins that are skipped are at the high end. (33, 34 I believe, going off of memory.)

Correct, the two pins on the far left are not used.

#2170 35 days ago
Quoted from kerokero:

I’m looking for suggestions on how to fix an arch rail on a Bally Paragon that won’t stay in the post. I’ve tried tightening it down but it just pops out instead of staying in. I was thinking maybe the nylon post was worn so I rotated it to use the unworn side but it didn’t help. Maybe take the rail out and bend it slightly?[quoted image]

The post is really just a guide, not a clamp. There are notches in the wood side rails that the ends of the arch sit in. Try pushing the ends of the arch towards the top of the playfield. This will help keep the arch in guide posts.

#2171 35 days ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Pin 1 on sound board goes to Pin 1 on MPU.
The pins that are skipped are at the high end. (33, 34 I believe, going off of memory.)

Success! Wild fyre is fully working once again.

Quoted from RoyGBev:

You can adjust it lower to sound like the later SB-100 games (example: Hot Hand)

Where is the adjust for tone sounds? Is it on the AUX sound board mounted to the side inside the backbox?

#2172 34 days ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

Success! Wild fyre is fully working once again.

Where is the adjust for tone sounds? Is it on the AUX sound board mounted to the side inside the backbox?

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Adjusting_the_Sound_Quality_on_a_Stern_SB-100_board

I didn't change any components on my Wild Fyre, just adjusted the pots. It had the less populated rev. 2 board, which only works when the MPU is set to "computer sounds" option (see the manual).

If you have no musical ability, like me, it helps to have a frequency counter to get the three tones proportionally adjusted. A lot of multimeters have a frequency setting. I used my ancient Fluke 83.

#2173 34 days ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

I may have a cheap bass speaker laying around. Can you show me how you hooked it up? Im interested.

No longer have the game. I just hooked it up in place of the original speaker. I kept the original speaker and plywood frame in the game, and mounted the new one over the cabinet crossmember, using two screws on diagonal mounts. No need to cut a hole or do anything permanent. It sounded fine and you could feel the bass from the side rails when playing. Just messing around, ymmv, experiment if you feel comfortable.

The original speaker is 6.4 ohms. You should probably use a speaker with >= impedance (8 ohm for example).

#2174 32 days ago

Looking for some help on an Eight Ball Deluxe standup target that won't register when it's hit. The target and everything else worked fine before the system was torn down for a hardtop installation and cabinet repaint. It's all put back together now and this is the only thing on the playfield currently not working.

This is the "Bank Shot" red standup target (called "In Line Back Target" in the schematic) that is hit after dropping the 2X, 3X, 4X, and 5X in-line drop targets.

Here's what I've done so far:

- bypassed the diode on the switch using a jumper wire, and the target scores
- cleaned the switch contacts
- confirmed with my MM that the contact points on the switch leafs provide continuity when touching
- confirmed continuity on the Brown wire to B Rollover Lane switch...no opens
- confirmed continuity on the Brown wire to J2 Pin 12 on the MPU...no opens
- confirmed continuity on the White with Yellow wire to the Tilt switch...no opens
- confirmed continuity on the White with Yellow wire to the 5X In Line Drop Target switch...no opens
- pulled off the diode and tested it out of circuit with my MM. Tests good, but I replaced it anyway (no change in symptoms).

I'm starting to run out of ideas....appreciate any guidance/advice on next steps.

Switch Matrix 2 (resized).jpg
#2175 32 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Looking for some help on an Eight Ball Deluxe standup target that won't register when it's hit. The target and everything else worked fine before the system was torn down for a hardtop installation and cabinet repaint. It's all put back together now and this is the only thing on the playfield currently not working.
This is the "Bank Shot" red standup target (called "In Line Back Target" in the schematic) that is hit after dropping the 2X, 3X, 4X, and 5X in-line drop targets.
Here's what I've done so far:
- bypassed the diode on the switch using a jumper wire, and the target scores
- cleaned the switch contacts
- confirmed with my MM that the contact points on the switch leafs provide continuity when touching
- confirmed continuity on the Brown wire to B Rollover Lane switch...no opens
- confirmed continuity on the Brown wire to J2 Pin 12 on the MPU...no opens
- confirmed continuity on the White with Yellow wire to the Tilt switch...no opens
- confirmed continuity on the White with Yellow wire to the 5X In Line Drop Target switch...no opens
- pulled off the diode and tested it out of circuit with my MM. Tests good, but I replaced it anyway (no change in symptoms).
I'm starting to run out of ideas....appreciate any guidance/advice on next steps.[quoted image]

I’m a little confused by your continuity checks, but you should check all switches in the same row and column for broken or loose wires at the lugs. Remember that the switches are not necessarily wired in the order they appear on the switch matrix. A broken wire at another switch could cause the problem.

#2176 32 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

I’m a little confused by your continuity checks, but you should check all switches in the same row and column for broken or loose wires at the lugs. Remember that the switches are not necessarily wired in the order they appear on the switch matrix. A broken wire at another switch could cause the problem.

Thanx....I did check all lugs in each row and column involving the IN LINE BACK TARGET. Using a MM, I clipped on one lead to the lug with the brown wire and tone-checked the corresponding lugs on each of the switches in that row and they all beeped. Then I clipped on the lead to the lug with the white and red wire and tone-checked the corresponding lugs on each of the switches in that column and they all beeped. The one exception is the "blank/empty" switch between the IN LINE BACK TARGET and TILT....I'm not sure what that's supposed to be or where?? I'm assuming there's nothing on the playfield for me to physically check and that the switch matrix in the schematic is boiler plate for multiple games and the appropriate switch names are filled in for the appropriate game.

#2177 32 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Thanx....I did check all lugs in each row and column involving the IN LINE BACK TARGET. Using a MM, I clipped on one lead to the lug with the brown wire and tone-checked the corresponding lugs on each of the switches in that row and they all beeped. Then I clipped on the lead to the lug with the white and red wire and tone-checked the corresponding lugs on each of the switches in that column and they all beeped. The one exception is the "blank/empty" switch between the IN LINE BACK TARGET and TILT....I'm not sure what that's supposed to be or where?? I'm assuming there's nothing on the playfield for me to physically check and that the switch matrix in the schematic is boiler plate for multiple games and the appropriate switch names are filled in for the appropriate game.

Check elsewhere in the manual to see if a switch goes to J2-13 and J2-1. I’ve learned that some switches are listed elsewhere like some coin door switches even though they are in the matrix. I’m a bit confused how it all works.

#2178 32 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Check elsewhere in the manual to see if a switch goes to J2-13 and J2-1. I’ve learned that some switches are listed elsewhere like some coin door switches even though they are in the matrix. I’m a bit confused how it all works.

Can't find anywhere else in the schematics where there are switches on A4J2-13 or A4J2-1. I tried another test....I replaced the red standup target switch with a spare, brand new sling switch I had in my parts bin just to see if I could get it to score. It behaves the exact same way as the red standup target....will not score on leaf contact, but will score if I bypass the diode and short the two lugs together momentarily. Confirming that the standup target is most likely not at fault, I put it back in.

Here's something I did not mention earlier but I don't see how it can affect this....I currently do not have the coin door installed. The coin door is disassembled and going thru cleanup/restoration, so it'll be a few weeks before it's back on the machine. I've wired temporary game start and self test buttons into the 24-pin female Molex connector in the cabinet to start games and go thru the built in diags. I don't see anything in the coin door schematic that would interfere with the In Line Back Target registering, plus which every other switch on the playfield is working ok.

#2179 32 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

Can't find anywhere else in the schematics where there are switches on A4J2-13 or A4J2-1. I tried another test....I replaced the red standup target switch with a spare, brand new sling switch I had in my parts bin just to see if I could get it to score. It behaves the exact same way as the red standup target....will not score on leaf contact, but will score if I bypass the diode and short the two lugs together momentarily. Confirming that the standup target is most likely not at fault, I put it back in.
Here's something I did not mention earlier but I don't see how it can affect this....I currently do not have the coin door installed. The coin door is disassembled and going thru cleanup/restoration, so it'll be a few weeks before it's back on the machine. I've wired temporary game start and self test buttons into the 24-pin female Molex connector in the cabinet to start games and go thru the built in diags. I don't see anything in the coin door schematic that would interfere with the In Line Back Target registering, plus which every other switch on the playfield is working ok.

Here it is. That blank switch is number 6 on the switch matrix which is one of the door switches according to this:

DC398358-2A46-4B84-8674-A015E3A00464 (resized).png

So perhaps it does have something to do with the door being disconnected. . . .

#2180 32 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

The one exception is the "blank/empty" switch between the IN LINE BACK TARGET and TILT....

Switch #06 is the start button on the coin door.

What happens if you start a game or go into switch test mode then disconnect J3 from the MPU board while the machine is on? Does that inline standup target suddenly start working?

#2181 32 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Here it is. That blank switch is number 6 on the switch matrix which is one of the door switches according to this:
[quoted image]
So perhaps it does have something to do with the door being disconnected. . . .

Damn...I thought you might be on to something there. Switch 6 is the Credit switch on the door, and the schematic indeed shows it's on ST0. I took that credit switch part and soldered into the game-start jumper wires I have in the 24 pin female Molex in the lower cabinet. I'm using that switch in circuit now to start a game instead of touching the two bare wires together, but the In Line Back Target still doesn't register.

Switch Matrix - Coin Door (resized).jpg
#2182 32 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

but the In Line Back Target still doesn't register.

Post some clear pictures of the wiring on that switch - the more angles the better.

#2183 32 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

What happens if you start a game or go into switch test mode then disconnect J3 from the MPU board while the machine is on? Does that inline standup target suddenly start working?

I started a game, dropped the 2X/3X/4X/5X targets, pulled J3 from the MPU, and hit the standup target....still does not register.

Quoted from Quench:

Post some clear pictures of the wiring on that switch - the more angles the better.

Here are a few - I've disconnected and resoldered a few times clipped the wire ends and starting with fresh stripping, plus tried soldering in a completely different switch as well.

IMG_8544 (resized).jpgIMG_8545 (resized).jpgIMG_8546 (resized).jpgIMG_8547 (resized).jpgIMG_8548 (resized).jpg
#2184 32 days ago

You've got the wires soldered on the wrong lugs (backwards). Swap them around so the white-red wire connects to the diode lug on the side and the brown wires go where the white-red currently are.

#2185 32 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

You've got the wires soldered on the wrong lugs (backwards). Swap them around so the white-red wire connects to the diode lug on the side and the brown wires go where the white-red currently are.

Ding,ding. "I'll buy that for a dollar".

#2186 31 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

You've got the wires soldered on the wrong lugs (backwards). Swap them around so the white-red wire connects to the diode lug on the side and the brown wires go where the white-red currently are.

& trim your fingernails while you are at it.

#2187 31 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

You've got the wires soldered on the wrong lugs (backwards). Swap them around so the white-red wire connects to the diode lug on the side and the brown wires go where the white-red currently are.

Good lord! :facepalm:

It, ah, works now.

I hadn't considered the possibilty that it was hooked up backwards because I honestly do not remember disconnecting this target for the hardtop install, and it was working before the top-side teardown. But there's no denying that at some point, I must've disconnected it and put it in backwards! And it's clear as day in the switch matrix schematic....it's amazing how simple logic can go unnoticed even after staring at the circuit diagrams for hours. Thank you, Quench.

#2188 31 days ago
Quoted from Mathazar:

It, ah, works now.

Awesome.

Almost always, Occam's Razor is your best friend in these situations.

#2189 31 days ago
Quoted from guitarded:

Awesome.
Almost always, Occam's Razor is your best friend in these situations.

Agreed. I’ve chased problems for hours making them more complicated in my mind only to realize later that it was something basic that I failed to check.

#2190 31 days ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

I’ve chased problems for hours making them more complicated in my mind only to realize later that it was something basic that I failed to check.

Years ago I worked at a business that had spent over 7k chasing down a problem with their Floor Waxing Machine.

Long->Short Story: Battery wouldn't charge while docked. Boss finally asked me to look at it because I once fixed a wiring harness in his truck.

Turned out that someone had unplugged the extension cord that went to the docking station.

#2191 31 days ago
Quoted from guitarded:

Turned out that someone had unplugged the extension cord that went to the docking station.

Ever speak with computer tech support, I think that is the very first question ask!

#2192 28 days ago

So why are there two numbers stamped on the head?

I know what the top one is, and it matches the cab and boards.

The lower one is not a sequence I’ve ever seen before.

AB45C2D0-7660-4DA8-9A1A-C0E2564CB4CD (resized).jpeg
#2193 28 days ago
Quoted from djblouw:

So why are there two numbers stamped on the head?
I know what the top one is, and it matches the cab and boards.
The lower one is not a sequence I’ve ever seen before.
[quoted image]

Either an OP had their own serial numbers or the factory used an existing head and redid it as a Fathom

#2194 28 days ago

I 1000% percent it was not the operator. I was talking to him when I bought the game.

And as for being a different game at the factory, that game ID doesn’t make sense??

#2195 28 days ago
Quoted from djblouw:

So why are there two numbers stamped on the head?
I know what the top one is, and it matches the cab and boards.
The lower one is not a sequence I’ve ever seen before.
[quoted image]

EFA4466= Electronic Fathom #4466
LO9584= Location #9584

#2198 28 days ago
Quoted from jardine:

Hey guys...I need to replace the bridge rectifiers on my rectifier board.

Can someone help me please as I don't know the values I need.

Which game is it for?
And which bridge on the rectifier board are you replacing?

There were two different rectifier boards used in classic Bally and they had different bridge rectifiers.

#2199 28 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Which game is it for?
And which bridge on the rectifier board are you replacing?
There were two different rectifier boards used in classic Bally and they had different bridge rectifiers.

lol...it's never easy is it! Haha, sorry. Bally Harlem. Looking to maybe replace all 3.

#2200 27 days ago
Quoted from jardine:

Looking to maybe replace all 3.

Give us some background - is one of them faulty, and which one?
If they're not faulty, I would not replace them.

The originals are 10 amp bridge rectifiers. They're long obsolete. The ones Marco is selling model KBPC802 are 8 amps, not 10 amps.

Physical size wise, these are all drop in replacements but are only 8 amps max (highest you can get in this physical size)

https://au.rs-online.com/web/c/semiconductors/discrete-semiconductors/bridge-rectifiers/?applied-dimensions=4294809338,4294565700,4294876504,4294874820,4294876509,4294874899,4294874849

If the BR1 feature lamp bridge has blown, replace it with one of the originals from BR2 or BR3 and install an 8 amp at BR2 or BR3. You really want a 10 amp bridge at BR1 because of the high current draw.

Screw the rectifier board with bridges in place first, then solder them so there's no stress on the joints.

Alternatively some people solder the big 35 amp bridges on the top side of the board, but you must make sure to effectively thermally cool it with a decent heatsink because it will get HOT.

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