(Topic ID: 85292)

Bally/Stern AS-2518 Club !


By mof

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 1,512 posts
  • 228 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by FatPanda
  • Topic is favorited by 185 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 289 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

Pin_Numbering6a.jpg
Pin_Numbering2.jpg
LDB_SCR_MCR106.jpg
Bally_AS-2518-14_lamp_driver (resized).jpg
DSCF2297 (resized).jpg
DSCF2296 (resized).jpg
20190303_073202 (resized).jpg
20190303_073155 (resized).jpg
20190303_073116 (resized).jpg
20190303_072639 (resized).jpg
stern SCR (resized).jpg
Stars lamp (resized).jpg
IMG_0987 (resized).JPG
IMG_0984 (resized).JPG
ngs panel (resized).jpg
ngs panel 2 (resized).jpg

There are 1512 posts in this topic. You are on page 30 of 31.
#1451 35 days ago

Great club! I have Flash Gordon and it's fun, but certainly can be a pretty tough machine to play....launch ball, drain, launch, drain etc. My kids are getting a bit agry at the thing (no grasshopper mentality there). Anyway, I've heard that the posts can be adjusted to make the game easier, harder for the ball to drain to the outside. Does anyone know anything about this? Also, I'd love your thoughts on what you think are the best upgrades to do for this machine. Including Alltek etc. Thanks

#1452 29 days ago

I'm getting a phantom tilt from time to time on Space Invaders. I searched the wiki, but it doesn't address this specifically. Is it a diode going bad, or something else?

#1453 29 days ago
Quoted from desertT1:

I'm getting a phantom tilt from time to time on Space Invaders. I searched the wiki, but it doesn't address this specifically. Is it a diode going bad, or something else?

If there is a disc capacitor on the tilt switch, it may be going bad. How often does it happen? If it happens often enough where it's noticeable, you may want to clip one of the legs of the capacitor to see if it reduces the amount of phantom tilts.

#1454 29 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

If there is a disc capacitor on the tilt switch, it may be going bad. How often does it happen? If it happens often enough where it's noticeable, you may want to clip one of the legs of the capacitor to see if it reduces the amount of phantom tilts.

It's at my main location, and the only players that actually give me feedback are my small group of tournament players. Prior to this weekend the only one who brought it up is a player that tilts a lot more than anyone else. Not abusive, but definitely tests how far the game will let him go with nudging. Anyway, a second player had it happen to them in warmup on Sunday, and then the original player had it happen in a 4-player game and had witnesses that he hadn't even bumped the game let alone do something that would cause a tilt.

I'll check for a cap and clip it to see if it goes away. Thanks.

1 week later
#1455 18 days ago

I'm trying to diagnose a lamp board on a Stern Stars. I got all of the controlled lamps working, however the TILT lamp is giving me bit of a stumble. I replaced the SCR (MCR 106-1) with an equivalent from PinballLife https://www.pinballlife.com/mcr106-8-replacement-scr-for-early-solid-state-pinball-machines.html

I question which way the correct way is, since it's not really labeled in any way. Does anyone know if the "silver" side should be facing to the left or to the right?

Second question is - after replacing above mentioned SCR, I did get the lamp to work in test mode, but only after moving the wire to the correct pin. It's been a while since I've had to read a schematic (and sorry for the stupid question), but I'm assuming the position on the schematic is the same position on the connector? In this case, the TILT lamp is the 3rd from the bottom on J2 and should be so on the connector. Right?
Stars lamp (resized).jpg

With that said, after moving the connector to the 3rd from bottom pin, the lamp will work in test mode (as mentioned earlier), but when I tilt in a game, the lamp does not turn on. Also, it turns on when the "WOW" lamp is lit, and stays on afterwards if the "WOW" lamp is NOT lit (completing another set of drops to move the lamp to SPECIAL), which is why I'm questioning whether or not it is on the correct pin.

Any thoughts?

#1456 18 days ago

fatpanda - the number position is next to it on the schematic - in your case - it looks like TILT is right next to position 18 - so it should be in the 18th position of the connector (Which on a 23 position connector is definitely not 3rd from bottom).

Looks like in your case you can use the Player 1 (16th) and Player 2 (20th) to help navigate and determine the correct positon (plus the board should have pins 1 and 23 screened on there)

#1457 18 days ago
Quoted from statictrance:

fatpanda - the number position is next to it on the schematic - in your case - it looks like TILT is right next to position 18 - so it should be in the 18th position of the connector (Which on a 23 position connector is definitely not 3rd from bottom).
Looks like in your case you can use the Player 1 (16th) and Player 2 (20th) to help navigate and determine the correct positon (plus the board should have pins 1 and 23 screened on there)

Thanks! I'll take a look when I get home. I knew there was something going on with that. Also, it looks like 10 and not 18? I suppose I can see what's open between the two.

#1458 18 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

Does anyone know if the "silver" side should be facing to the left or to the right?

The side with the metal tab should face the same way as the other SCRs with metal tabs.

Note: on the lamp board, the connectors start with pin 1 at the bottom, not the top. Rather unusual that the lamp board connector pin locations are "upside down" compared to the other boards in the system.

Quoted from FatPanda:

Also, it looks like 10 and not 18?

Yes the tilt lamp wire is at pin 10. Pin 18 is actually the key position.

#1459 18 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Yes the tilt lamp wire is at pin 10. Pin 18 is actually the key position.

My bad - the pic he posted had a little smudge on the 0 and it was a bit blurry. (and it's early, haha).

#1460 18 days ago
Quoted from statictrance:

My bad - the pic he posted had a little smudge on the 0 and it was a bit blurry. (and it's early, haha).

Not your bad at all, nearly all the early Stern lamp board schematics have that particular smudge making that 10 look like an 18

#1461 18 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

The side with the metal tab should face the same way as the other SCRs with metal tabs.
Note: on the lamp board, the connectors start with pin 1 at the bottom, not the top. Rather unusual that the lamp board connector pin locations are "upside down" compared to the other boards in the system.

Yes the tilt lamp wire is at pin 10. Pin 18 is actually the key position.

The other SCRs don't have a "metal" side. They are all plastic with a square top and a pointed tip (like an arrow). There is a metal tab, but it's centered on the SCR

Not my board but this is what they look like.

stern SCR (resized).jpg

#1462 18 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

The other SCRs don't have a "metal" side. They are all plastic with a square top and a pointed tip (like an arrow). There is a metal tab, but it's centered on the SCR

I'll grab a pic of it when I get home.

Consider the side that has the model number printed on it is the front for all SCRs/transistors. The metal side can be screwed to a heatsink for thermal transfer such that the model number on the front side is still visible. In other words the new SCR and the original SCRs you have should have the model number face on the same side.

#1463 18 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Consider the side that has the model number printed on it is the front for all SCRs/transistors. The metal side can be screwed to a heatsink for thermal transfer such that the model number on the front side is still visible. In other words the new SCR and the original SCRs you have should have the model number face on the same side.

Ok. I had thought that but didn't want to make assumptions. I tried it both ways, but didn't seem to make a difference (even though I knew it should matter).

#1464 18 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Consider the side that has the model number printed on it is the front for all SCRs/transistors. The metal side can be screwed to a heatsink for thermal transfer such that the model number on the front side is still visible. In other words the new SCR and the original SCRs you have should have the model number face on the same side.

The newly installed SCR has the print on the same side as the rest of them. I replaced the connector and moved the wire back to position 10 (from the bottom) and still no luck on the lamp. It doesnt light in test mode or during a game. I've already reflowed the solder to the pins, and I checked continuity from the socket through the wire to the back of the board etc, and all is good.

#1465 18 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

The newly installed SCR has the print on the same side as the rest of them. I replaced the connector and moved the wire back to position 10 (from the bottom) and still no luck on the lamp. It doesnt light in test mode or during a game. I've already reflowed the solder to the pins, and I checked continuity from the socket through the wire to the back of the board etc, and all is good.

Grab a jumper wire. Connect one end to ground and touch the other end on the metal backing of the SCR. Does the tilt lamp light? This will test continuity from the SCR to the lamp and that the lamp & lamp socket are working. It does not test the SCR.

Next hookup one end of the jumper wire to test point TP3 on the lamp driver board. Touch the other end of the wire on the "gate" leg of that SCR. The gate leg is the one on the right when you look at the front side of the SCR (that shows the model number). Does the tilt lamp light? This test manually activates the SCR to tell you if the SCR is working.

#1466 18 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Grab a jumper wire. Connect one end to ground and touch the other end on the metal backing of the SCR. Does the tilt lamp light? This will test continuity from the SCR to the lamp and that the lamp & lamp socket are working. It does not test the SCR.
Next hookup one end of the jumper wire to test point TP3 on the lamp driver board. Touch the other end of the wire on the "gate" leg of that SCR. The gate leg is the one on the right when you look at the front side of the SCR (that shows the model number). Does the tilt lamp light? This test manually activates the SCR to tell you if the SCR is working.

Both methods light the Tilt lamp, when grounding and with TP3.

#1467 17 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

Both methods light the Tilt lamp, when grounding and with TP3.

Your tilt switches are working, right?

#1468 17 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Your tilt switches are working, right?

Yes, it will kill the solenoids during a ball. Flippers and pop bumper goes dead and stay dead until the ball enters the drain.

#1469 17 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

Yes, it will kill the solenoids during a ball.

Post a picture of your lamp driver board so we can see which variant you have.

#1470 17 days ago

Archived after 1 day
123 views
Sold elsewhere
Machine - For Sale
Hot Hand Archived
Partially restored (almost original) “For sale: A classic Stern 1979 "Hot Hand" pinball machine. This is a fun, family game with a card playing theme. A solid state machine, it is in 100% working condition, which makes...”
2019-03-02
Jarrettsville, MD
1,095

Here is the Pinside ad for my "Hot Hand", thanks for looking.

Alan

#1471 17 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

but it's centered on the SCR
Not my board but this is what they look like.

The Notched side is the front , on the old style SCR's ( With part no's printed on it) , the other side is then the back, which is the metal side

#1472 16 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Post a picture of your lamp driver board so we can see which variant you have.

20190303_072639 (resized).jpg
#1473 16 days ago

Here's a better shot with a pic of the replaced SCR. This is the printed side.

20190303_073116 (resized).jpg20190303_073155 (resized).jpg20190303_073202 (resized).jpg
#1474 16 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

Here's a better shot with a pic of the replaced SCR. This is the printed side.

Thanks, ok you've got the original design lamp driver board with the buffer chips between the big decoder chips and the SCRs.

Have you got a logic probe?
If yes, hook it up, put the game in lamp test mode and probe pins 14 then 15 of the buffer chip at U8.
What does your logic probe indicate is happening on these two pins?

#1475 16 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Thanks, ok you've got the original design lamp driver board with the buffer chips between the big decoder chips and the SCRs.
Have you got a logic probe?
If yes, hook it up, put the game in lamp test mode and probe pins 14 then 15 of the buffer chip at U8.
What does your logic probe indicate is happening on these two pins?

I dont have a logic probe, but it's been on my list of tools to get

#1476 16 days ago

Put the game in display test mode (where no lamps are being lit) and measure the voltage on both those pins at U8.
Then put the game in lamp test mode. Do you get a slightly different voltage reading? Maybe the readings change as the lamps switch on and off?

#1477 16 days ago

you need to solder the left leg to the top track , might not be even touching by the looks of it

#1478 16 days ago

Make sure you solder both sides of the boards
those tracks look lifted , less heat , clean the solder tip often even if you think it doesn't need it , always add a little fresh solder , this will make the old grey solder flow , A few pics of one I just repaired , not the neatest , but you can see I solder both sides

good luck

DSCF2296 (resized).jpgDSCF2297 (resized).jpg

#1479 16 days ago
Quoted from Ralph67:

Make sure you solder both sides of the boards
those tracks look lifted , less heat , clean the solder tip often even if you think it doesn't need it , always add a little fresh solder , this will make the old grey solder flow ,
good luck
A few pics of one I have been working on , not my neatest work , but you get the idea

[quoted image][quoted image]

#1480 15 days ago

If you have a problem with the buffer chips on a AS-2518-14, you can cut them out and solder in 6 wire bridges.
Just like this image.....

Bally_AS-2518-14_lamp_driver (resized).jpg
#1481 15 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Put the game in display test mode (where no lamps are being lit) and measure the voltage on both those pins at U8.
Then put the game in lamp test mode. Do you get a slightly different voltage reading? Maybe the readings change as the lamps switch on and off?

I'll be out of town for a few days and will test this when I get back. Probably by the weekend at the latest. Thanks again for helping me troubleshoot!

#1482 15 days ago

Hi folks!

I've got a weird issue with the pop bumpers on my Fireball II. Hope somebody can point me in the right direction.

The strength with which they fire is very random. Sometimes it's full strength, sometime it's extremely weak. Or anything in between. There doesn't seem to be any logic to it. All 3 of them behave like this.

I've checked the fuse holders on the rectifier board and re-flowed all solder points there as well. That didn't help.

Any ideas on what to check?

#1483 15 days ago
Quoted from Jappie:

Hi folks!
I've got a weird issue with the pop bumpers on my Fireball II. Hope somebody can point me in the right direction.
The strength with which they fire is very random. Sometimes it's full strength, sometime it's extremely weak. Or anything in between. There doesn't seem to be any logic to it. All 3 of them behave like this.
I've checked the fuse holders on the rectifier board and re-flowed all solder points there as well. That didn't help.
Any ideas on what to check?

bus wire hanging on by just a single thread somewhere in the chain? Check the 43v wire going daisy chained together.

#1484 15 days ago

Having a weird stutter problem with my left flippers. I posted about it here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/flipper-stutter-on-bally-paragon

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

#1485 14 days ago
Quoted from barakandl:

bus wire hanging on by just a single thread somewhere in the chain? Check the 43v wire going daisy chained together.

I'll check that. Thanks!

#1486 11 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

I'll be out of town for a few days and will test this when I get back. Probably by the weekend at the latest. Thanks again for helping me troubleshoot!

I checked the voltages on several different legs on chip U8 while on lamp test, and display test, and it all read around -4.98. I used TP3 on the lamp board as my ground? Let me know if that's right.

#1487 10 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

I used TP3 on the lamp board as my ground?

TP3 is a test SCR enable voltage, it's not ground.
TP2 is a ground point on that lamp driver board, so redo the measurements with the black meter lead on TP2.

#1488 10 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

TP3 is a test SCR enable voltage, it's not ground.
TP2 is a ground point on that lamp driver board, so redo the measurements with the black meter lead on TP2.

Doh! I'll give it another reading this afternoon and report back.

#1489 10 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

TP3 is a test SCR enable voltage, it's not ground.
TP2 is a ground point on that lamp driver board, so redo the measurements with the black meter lead on TP2.

There's no change in voltage when testing at TP2.

#1490 9 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

There's no change in voltage when testing at TP2.

Ahh, sorry just looked again at your pic and you have a Stern lamp board. For whatever reason Stern swapped TP1 and TP2 around. TP1 is ground on their board. Can you redo the measurement again with the black lead on TP1?

#1491 8 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Ahh, sorry just looked again at your pic and you have a Stern lamp board. For whatever reason Stern swapped TP1 and TP2 around. TP1 is ground on their board. Can you redo the measurement again with the black lead on TP1?

With the lamps in test mode, the meter will go from 0-20-0-20... With the lamps off, it reads around -7.0 mV

#1492 6 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

With the lamps in test mode, the meter will go from 0-20-0-20... With the lamps off, it reads around -7.0 mV

You were measuring those voltages on pins 14 and then 15 of the buffer chip at U8 and these results were the same on both?
The values themselves don't mean much (a multi-meter is not really appropriate for checking high speed logic signals), but is indicating there is movement.
What voltages do you measure on the gate leg of SCR Q47 (right most leg when looking at the front of the SCR) in lamp test mode?

In lamp test mode, check pins 3 and 2 (8k bonus lamp drive) of U8 to compare against pins 14 and 15 respectively. The multi-meter activity should be the same.

#1493 6 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

You were measuring those voltages on pins 14 and then 15 of the buffer chip at U8 and these results were the same on both?
The values themselves don't mean much (a multi-meter is not really appropriate for checking high speed logic signals), but is indicating there is movement.
What voltages do you measure on the gate leg of SCR Q47 (right most leg when looking at the front of the SCR) in lamp test mode?
In lamp test mode, check pins 3 and 2 (8k bonus lamp drive) of U8 to compare against pins 14 and 15 respectively. The multi-meter activity should be the same.

On pins 14 and 15, the voltmeter was jumping up and down from 0ish-20ish and the results were the same on both pins. The voltage at the gate leg of Q47 (right most "center" leg) was around 3.75. in Lamp test mode, pins 2 and 3 behaved similarly to to 14 and 15.

#1494 6 days ago

Can't remember if I've asked this or not. I'm getting phantom tilts on Space Invaders. Is there a typical cause of this? I'm thinking the diodes on the switches around the tilts might need to get swapped out. Anything else?

#1495 6 days ago
Quoted from desertT1:

Can't remember if I've asked this or not. I'm getting phantom tilts on Space Invaders. Is there a typical cause of this? I'm thinking the diodes on the switches around the tilts might need to get swapped out. Anything else?

It could be that but check for old caps on the other switches on the same column and row as the switch that false fires. It is normally not a bad diode. Do you get false firing of the pop bumpers or slings when playing?

#1496 6 days ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

It could be that but check for old caps on the other switches on the same column and row as the switch that false fires. It is normally not a bad diode. Do you get false firing of the pop bumpers or slings when playing?

A false pop every now and then, but pretty rare.

#1497 5 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

The voltage at the gate leg of Q47 (right most "center" leg) was around 3.75.

You measured 3.75 volts on the right leg or the center leg?
3.75 volts on the right gate leg would have switched the SCR on and the Tilt lamp should've illuminated.

Quoted from FatPanda:

On pins 14 and 15, the voltmeter was jumping up and down from 0ish-20ish

You should be getting a similar behavior on the gate leg of the SCR in lamp test mode - voltage goes from 0ish when the lamp is off to something when the lamp should be on.

Pin 15 of U8 (Tilt lamp enable signal) goes to resistor R49. The other leg of R49 goes to the gate leg of the SCR Q47. Do you measure zero ohms continuity between the SCR gate and R49?

LDB_SCR_MCR106.jpg

#1498 5 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

You measured 3.75 volts on the right leg or the center leg?
3.75 volts on the right gate leg would have switched the SCR on and the Tilt lamp should've illuminated.

You should be getting a similar behavior on the gate leg of the SCR in lamp test mode - voltage goes from 0ish when the lamp is off to something when the lamp should be on.
Pin 15 of U8 (Tilt lamp enable signal) goes to resistor R49. The other leg of R49 goes to the gate leg of the SCR Q47. Do you measure zero ohms continuity between the SCR gate and R49?
[quoted image]

I misunderstood. I measured 3.75V on the center leg based on the picture above. I will test the right leg later today and report back.

#1499 5 days ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

I measured 3.75V on the center leg based on the picture above.

The center leg of the SCR goes to the lamp. When the lamp is off you should be measuring about 5.5 to 6 volts there. 3.75V is too low - not likely your issue but I'm curious why it's low. When you get to the game, can you also measure the voltages at the lamp socket on both the braid connected side and on the tip where the lamp wire is attached? Also remeasure the center leg of the Q47 SCR again. Do these voltage measurements with the game in attract mode.

#1500 5 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

You measured 3.75 volts on the right leg or the center leg?
3.75 volts on the right gate leg would have switched the SCR on and the Tilt lamp should've illuminated.

You should be getting a similar behavior on the gate leg of the SCR in lamp test mode - voltage goes from 0ish when the lamp is off to something when the lamp should be on.

I tested the gate leg and the DMM does behave similarly. It bounces from 0ish - 15 as the lamps flash in test mode

Quoted from Quench:

Pin 15 of U8 (Tilt lamp enable signal) goes to resistor R49. The other leg of R49 goes to the gate leg of the SCR Q47. Do you measure zero ohms continuity On between the SCR gate and R49?
[quoted image]

Yes, there is 0 ohm cont between the two.

Quoted from Quench:

The center leg of the SCR goes to the lamp. When the lamp is off you should be measuring about 5.5 to 6 volts there. 3.75V is too low - not likely your issue but I'm curious why it's low. When you get to the game, can you also measure the voltages at the lamp socket on both the braid connected side and on the tip where the lamp wire is attached? Also remeasure the center leg of the Q47 SCR again. Do these voltage measurements with the game in attract mode.

On the braid side, it sees 5.95V, on the wire side it sees 3.75V

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 155.00
$ 90.00
Lighting - Led
Geeteoh Electronics
$ 76.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 86.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 149.00
$ 96.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
650 (OBO)
Sale Pending!
Allentown, PA
$ 76.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 21.00
$ 149.00
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
$ 10.00
From: $ 20.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
1,800
Machine - For Sale
Scottsdale, AZ
$ 14.00
Electronics
Yorktown Parts and Equip
$ 45.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
Trade
Machine - For Trade
Corpus Christi, TX
1,500 (OBO)
Sale Pending!
Delray Beach, FL
From: $ 10.00
Electronics
Third Coast Pinball
$ 24.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
$ 149.00
$ 149.00
$ 149.00
From: $ 149.95
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu
There are 1512 posts in this topic. You are on page 30 of 31.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside