That was from where I had removed the 1/4 watt resistors. The ones they added are just going between legs on the drivers

Does anyone know where i can get a Bally Night Rider (SS) lamp matrix?

Robert

https://www.ipdb.org/files/4497/Bally_1977_Night_Rider_Schematic_Diagram_paginated.pdf

It is on my todo list for creating Tech Charts for Bally games.
Alass it is one of the last games to do, but for you I'll do it right away.

Here is a copy of the lamp chart.
Please notice some wire colors are marked in yellow.
The marked colors are the colors used in all the other games in this position.
The number behind the column is the color info taken from the manual.
You will have to verify which wire color is actualy used.
Please let me know and I'll change the list accordingly.

Peter
http://www.inkochnito.nl

Bally_Night_Rider_Lamp_Chart.pdf

Can you also please check the wires for the solenoids?
Not all the wire colors match with the usually used colors.
I've found the slingshots switched from position.
PinMame usually has it right, but I'm nog sure this time.

Bally_Night_Rider_Solenoids.pdf

ok - So I'm back with a really peculiar issue... I'm still working on resurrecting this mouse infested Big Game. The Good news is - the whole game is up and functioning, and while there is still work to be done (mainly controlled lamps) everything is back to player's condition up and running. The bad news is - I'm pretty sure the critters used the display board platforms as their outhouse, cause these displays are all by and large WRECKED. So - I went ahead and bought a set of the Pinitech Uno boards since there wasn't any salvaging what was there. Unfortunately, I put together the 6 digit board for the credit display - and it doesn't work when I plug it in.

Now here is where it gets weird...

- I threw the Pinitech Uno display in my Paragon as player 2 - and it works totally fine (so the display itself is fine, it's not a hardware/my soldering issue)

- My Paragon had 1 7-digit Stern display when I got it - which I've been using as my player 1 display while rehabbing/testing... I pulled a 6 digit board out and threw that in the Big Game credit/display slot - THAT works totally fine (so it isn't likely connector/voltage related)

I messaged Wayne, and the only thing he could think of is if there is an extra ground on the connector on Pin 2 and 13 like he saw in a shuffle board Stern machine, but had never seen in a pin to date. I've checked that now - and though the schematics do show a ground on 2 and 13 - I only have a ground on 13 just like the LED board would require (and tested continuity and ended up repining #13 just in case) to no avail.

Anyone have any ideas? Other than repin the whole connector (and again, since the plasma works fine I'm highly doubting that's the case) I'm pretty much at a loss here.

Something else to keep in mind. All the common display signals are daisy-chained from one display to the next. I think the signals from the MPU connector typically go to Player #1 first. Try the LED display in all the Player positions and see if it lights up in all cases. The credit display is likely to be in the middle of the daisy chain, but you'd have to follow the wiring to see what order the displays are wired in. If you test the Player position directly *before* the credit display & the display works, that kind of rules out something further up the line.. and it's likely something with the wiring at the credit display connector itself or the wiring in-between the Player position the wiring runs to before it reaches the credit display.

Bad BCD data (ie. missing one or more BCD data lines, out of the 4x that should hit the display connector) , no 5v/GND, bad blanking signal.. would all affect the display. A missing digit enable would not (the single digit just wouldn't light). Since mice were in there, I'd also be looking at the Molex terminals. Check Pin20 on the display, may need to be repinned if it's looking nasty even if it beeps out. Relatively minimal current needed for the LED displays, but it's more than the 5v circuitry on a plasma display. Then there's latch/strobe at Pin15, Blanking at Pin10, BCD data at Pins 16,17,18,19. Those are the signals I'd concentrate on as they'd affect the display from working at all. You could ignore the digit enable signal wires for now.

Other things to try:
1. Put the LED display in the Player position directly *after* the credit display in the daisy chain. If that doesn't work properly either, then the problem is further up the chain. If you haven't yet, then try the Player position directly *before* the credit display too.

2. With the machine off, beep out the connections from one display connector to the next. Since Player 1 position is working, you could try beeping out pins 1-to-1 at the connectors on the Player 1 display and Credit/Match display. Pin15 is the latch/strobe for each individual display and will be different per display (ie. won't beep out). There should however be continuity between MPU J1 Pin24 and Credit Display Pin15.

3. Try swapping the credit display's latch/strobe with a player position on the MPU J1 header -- swap the latch/strobe at Pin24 (Credit) with Pin20 (Player1) on the MPU J1 connector. This will put the Player 1 latch/strobe to the credit display. If the display lights then there's something up with the Credit latch/strobe signal for the credit display.

I was able to test it briefly this morning before leaving for work - I plugged it into P2 (which is downstream from the cred display, but I only had like 5 minutes), t while I got nothing at first, the display started to light dimly after about 30 seconds. I also noticed that as it did the 1-7 count during Big Game's attract mode, each number that popped up made each LED get progressively dimmer (even after adjusting the POT). That seems to point to the 5v connector getting enough to drive the logic, but not quite enough juice to light the LEDs.

On a good note - the numbers it dimly showed were all correct and segments all there, so I'm hoping it's just that 5V connection. I had the whole harness out to clean it and repinned a number of connectors so far; so a few more isn't really surprising.

20180911_065105 (resized).jpg

Well that was fun. The high voltage section was putting out 6v, so no displays. Rebuilt that and put it all back in. When I turned it on I was looking for boot up blinks when suddenly the rectifier board started arcing very brightly. As I leaned in to power it off some components on the ball/credit display board went up in smoke. This was on a Silverball Mania.

Peter,

Thanks for the info on both the solenoids and lamps. I'll check both out when I get the playfield back into the game.

Robert

Well - the display connectors were actually all fine - but while I repined the J3 on the solenoid, the male pin was tarnished enough that only about 3.4v was making it to the displays. That's been replaced and everything is working is tip top shape.

Special thank you to Wayne for going the extra mile in helping me troubleshoot it. The Pinitech Uno displays are slick, easy to put together, and I'll definitely head back his way if I need anything else (Also sells a Gottlieb Sys3 NVRAM that nobody else has even bothered with that was easy peasy if you're comfortable with the soldering)

The no flicker bulbs probably have a 2or 4 diodes and a capacitor inside. I don't think that is going to be the cure the feature lamp flicker issue in Bally world unless the cap inside is big enough to keep up between the update cycles.

if you want to save money just buy a bag of 100pcs of 470ohm resistors for a dollar shipped and solder them across every feature lamp that flickers. Not all will flicker. So put in all your LEDs. Go into lamp test. Note what flickers and put the 470 ohm resistor across each acting up lamp holder. The replacement boards have the extra resistor on the lamp driver PCB itself instead of putting them across the lamp holders. Ends up being the same cicruit/cure.

Another tid-bit i realized with flickering bally lamps with LED is that the connectors from the lamp driver board to the holders lamp have to be in good shape. Even minimal amounts of resistance from worn out connectors is enough to cause the SCRs not to latch and flicker.... even if you have a LED friendly board / adapters.... connectors connectors connectors.

My feature lamp test rig started having more and more lamps flicker and I realized it was from the probably 100s of insertion cycles the connector has seen. Repinning the connector fixed a few spots that started to almost always flicker. The plating had started to rub off the connector contacts.

Also Stern MPU200 games are more likely to show flickering too.

My Stars arrived today. Got to play a few games before going to work, very happy. It's set to free play, but has the original MPU. Because this is going on route, I'll have to revert it back. Is there a typical way free play is done on these games so I have some ideas where to look for things?

Depends on how the "free play" is being done. By default the software does not have free play but there are probably hacked ROMs that add it. Sometimes the hacked ROMs are only free. Sometimes the hacked ROMs use a dip switch. I am not sure about the Stars freeplay ROM off hand. But you can probably find that ROM and check the readme file for info on if it is a dip switch setting. If you have a hacked ROM and no dip switch setting to turn on free you will need to install the stock factory software.

Other common ways of free play is to add an extra button somewhere around the coin door to add credits or to set the replay value really low. Disable the credit button or set / disable the replay levels.

Ah, I didn't even think about a ROM. I will give it a look and see if there is hopefully a label on it that I can throw into google. I did inspect the start button and coin switch area and everything looks untouched. I sent a message to the previous owner as well for clues, in case they know what might have been done. Hopefully it's a dip switch setting, that would actually be awesome.

https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?app=downloads&module=display&section=download&do=confirm_download&hash=aaa2fce00069151b1fda19a94f5afba1

from the readme...

---
Free play roms for Stern mpu100 games

Credit display always on

Dip #20 now sets freeplay on/off.
---

Very cool, thanks. When I was looking at the setting list on the paper in the head I saw that one and thought setting #20 was a little odd.

Check that the replay score isnt set to 10k with the knocker disconnected. That's a big one.

What causes a display to show all horizontal lines? Saw one doing it in the credit spot, switched it and the other display showed the credits properly and the display in question still showed lines when on P2. Haven't started the normal reflowing, etc just wondering if anybody knows what causes this.

Sounds like the bad display has a stuck on segment driver. Probably either a bad segment decoder chip or bad segment driver transistor.

With no other segments ever lighting do you think it's likely a bad chip?

Hard to say for sure with out more diagnosing but first and foremost. Make sure the connectors are good specifically the male header pin solder joints. If during display test only one segment is lit on all digits and nothing else lights up it is probably the 4543. If during display test one segment is stuck lit, but the rest of the segments are working properly it is probably the segment transistor.

I kinda hate probing around high voltage. The parts are cheap and if you could replace the segment transistor and then if it still is acting up do the 4543 segment decoder. TI still makes this part and the number is CD4543. The segment transistor is MPSA42. The middle segment is the 'g' segment and done by Q19 and 4543 output pin 14.

On Silverball Mania, the displays weren’t coming on and the high voltage TPS were only showing 6 or 7 volts. I rebuilt the HV section, but now I can’t get TP2 to read less than the 250-251V that TP4 is reading. I think it’s the trim pot. Can anyone confirm that it’s oriented properly? It’s got three legs, so it seems reasonable that the way I have it is “up”, but would like some confirmation on that.

E1BA9E31-A8B4-44F6-BF9D-9DDBBBBFBDFC (resized).jpeg

On our Future Spa, the playfield harness has been completely refitted with new connectors and new lamps/sockets went on the playfield. When testing, some control/insert lamps will not light (or during attract mode).

We're looking for some ideas of what to check next. Here's what we know:

- Continuity tests perfectly from bulb lug to lamp driver pin for lamps that won't light.
- Swapping the lamp driver board with a known working backup produces no change.
- Swapping the MPU board with a known working backup produces no change.
- Connectors have been audited between the lamp driver and MPU, and specific pins on both sets of connectors for both boards, no mis-ordered pins found (yet).
- Bulbs test fine both in and out of the socket with a tester, both polarities.

I feel like I'm missing something really obvious.

Any suggestions?

break in the bus 6vdc wire for feature lamps somewhere on PF? Check for +6vdc at a non working feature lamp.

logic signals to focus on would be lamp address and lamp data. Put the game in lamp test and make sure you see pulsing activity on all eight of those signals on the lamp driver board past the connector (at the 20k resistors is a good spot).

Ok, I went through these tests, and didn't get far. What started moving me in the right direction is that I noticed there was a "stuck switch" test failure for the tilt switch. When I disconnect the cabinet and playfield switch hardnesses from the MPU, *all* the feature lamps/control lamps turn on in lamp test.

Clearly there is something going on with this cabinet harness interfering with this, correct?

Figured it out. Tilt switch control wire was making contact with ground. Sigh.

Always good to isolate things when you can. The same PIA that services lamps also does switches just at different times. If a port is shorted through a switch it can effect the lamp matrix.

This is the sort of isolation thing I knew at an academic level (I'm a network engineer, so I do this sort of troubleshooting this way in the field), but never had to deal with on a repair level quite like this before. I also suck at electric so I tend to glaze over when dealing with some of this stuff.

To figure this out, here is what I knew:

- When the playfield and switch harness connectors were removed from the MPU, all the lamps lit up. At that point, I knew it was switch related.

- When the playfield switches were left connected, but cabinet removed, the lamps would light normally. This meant it was something in the cabinet.

- I remembered that when I did my initial electric test without the playfield harness, a game wouldn't start with the start button. I originally assumed that was due to the lack of playfield harness (no ball found, etc.). However, the more I thought about it, something else might be up.

- Performing the switch test where it reports the lowest number stuck switch, with just the cabinet harness installed, reported the tilt switch.

- I mentioned that in our restoration thread, and radium asked if there was any chance that the tilt switch was somehow connected to ground. I stared at it and thought, "no, no way." I then did a continuity test and, sure enough, it was connected to ground.

- Staring at it for like three minutes before I realized the brand new ground braid (this is a new restoration) went behind the tilt wood panel in the cabinet, and that maybe the mounting screw for the tilt bob penetrated the wood and touched the ground braid...

Anyway, I always love it when people post their thought process here, it sinks in and helps me later with my own troubleshooting.

Anyone have the glass off on one of their games to give input here?

did you replace all three transistors at one time? When high voltage in = high voltage out it is pretty much always blown transistors. Probably not the trim pot but you can check it with a DMM. As long as the wiping pin, the middle one goes to the middle hole you are OK. Just the trim pot adjusts backwards if it is upside down... no big deal. Clear picture front and back?

Always be careful messing around high voltage. The 100k resistor should bleed the cap off pretty quick at power down, but if it is open or ...

I replaced everything listed on pinwiki (http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Display_High_Voltage_Section) with a kit I bought. I'm quite certain the 3 transistors are in properly, but have not tested to see if any are bad.

You were correct. One of these transistors is reading .963 where the other one is reading .396 in diode test on the same leads. I didn’t measure them before I put them in, but if there was anything that would blow them in this type of circuit?

I’m going to order a few spares, just in case.

C092A0CE-F3AA-412B-8514-14D4085EBA57 (resized).jpeg

those green chicklet poly caps in that physical shape are normally only rated for 100v. The v rating is sometimes printed on the cap. You might want to check that and see is a cap is shorted.

I just changed BR2. I’m getting 6.2V AC out of F3, and only 4.2VDC out of TP3.

My other game puts out 7.11VAC out of F3, and 11.X VDC out of TP3.

What am I missing here?

Looking for a backglass locking bracket, the metal piece that goes across the top of the head and locks in the backglass. It's that same part on all early Bally solid state machines. I believe that it is Bally part #A-3868.

Thanks,

Alan

Mic check, mic check. Would love to know where to poke and prod to find these missing volts.

I'd check the AC side on both games. If the AC is way off from 12VAC (as the schematic notes, but can be very optimistic) that could possibly be a fuse holder with corrosion, or even a crappy fuse. I've seen fuses that are OK but actually in ohms test are 100 ohms or so. No current, no DC.

Be sure to disconnect the J3 and J1 connector just to be safe. You only want to test the rectifier board. The more you can isolate this assembly, the better. On my bench I've rigged up a AC molex to apply AC to pins 6 and 7 of J2. This way you can test the transformer / rectifier assembly outside of the game. The more you can isolate the problem from the rest of the game, the quicker the culprit will be found. At least that is my method

Fuse Good, everything else look good? Still low DC? These boards are notorious for getting carbon damage from heat and burn over the years. I've seen voltages "leak" into each other through the carbon burns on the board. Care to post a pic of your rectifier/transformer assembly? And most likely the issue will be on the back side just the way Murphy likes it.

Final straw would be to unsolder lugs 15 and 16 from the transformer and verify 12VAC across the lugs. If not, you have a bad transformer.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-eight-bally-not-starting-a-game

Bally Eight Ball.. Right flipper is dead.. Repining J1 connector to Rectifier board.. I think the brown Pin j1-6 may be bad --pinned.... And will test for 43 volts soon. Anything else to check. ?? Coil 3.4. Have not tried any jumper to make coil work. YET>.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
?????????? What information on J1-6 pin should I look for. I am talking the pin on the rectifier board output. ? THX>
What readings ?. IN case I have some drama on that Stock Bally Rectifier Board and Pin location....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All OTHER boards are New Alltek boards installed.. Currently.. THX
-----------------
12:00am UPDATE..NO.. Kick back on jumper test ..Game on Black to Side Rail..Red to lugs.. No movement.
Changing to new coil now
-------------------------------.
1:00am Update 2. Coil changed. Jumper test FAIL.. Maybe some humming now. Trying to work. ? ZZZZZ Another day tomorrow. LOL THX> Back at it
Peace. Nick.

Awesome post! Thanks. I will check out everything after work.

I pulled the transformer and measured across the 12v lugs. 13.6. I can chase that all the way up to both sides of the AC sides of the BR. At that point I get 4.X VDC when I touch the + and - of the BR, and yes I change over to DC on the miltimeter.

The puzzling and frustrating thing is this is the same reading I got with the previous BR. I don’t get it.

Great work on troubleshooting. Can you check the AC value across the + and - terminals? Before regulation, raw DC from the bridge is really not all that smooth. I've attached an image of what rectified DC looks like on the scope. If the AC value is way off (and you can check this on your working power supply board) then the rectifier you just replaced is bad. I just checked a working power supply using my bench AC (J1, J2, J3 all open except for AC applied) and measured 4.9 volts AC across the + and - terminals of BR2. I also confirmed that I have exactly 12 volts DC across the + and - of BR2 just for comparison sake.

If the above paragraph doesn't identify the culprit, try this. Remove F1, F2, F4, & F5 from the power supply board. This leaves only the AC line fuse, and BR2 circuit live. If your readings change from your previous test with the board configured this way, you have something amiss on the board itself such as the carbon issue, a splashed solder connection, or something just plain obviously wrong. A final test would be to remove F3, reinstall F1, F2, F4, F5 and verify that all voltages on every pin at BR2 are Zero. See below:

I had a customer send me a Bally late model rectifier board (like EBD uses) with screwy voltages like you describe. I did the fuse troubleshooting method described above, and with the fuse absent from the circuit in test, still had voltage on it. This made me scratch my head for a few minutes until I found a single strand of wire lodged underneath a connector. Removed the offending wire and voila! everything worked as it should.

Full Wave (resized).png

5.91VAC on the not working game. 10.61VAC on the working game. Pulling fuses now just for fun.

If I put the black probe on the negative side of the BR and the red on the bottom left side (AC) I get 13.3 VAC, but on the top right AC I get nothing. I used to get maybe 4, but now nothing for whatever reason. Just because, I did the same thing to BR3 and both sides of AC match.

Hi all.

Does any have or know where I can get a good set of plans or CAD for a new Medusa cabinet at all? I also need one for Barracora.
Any help appreciated.

I'd be interested as well in new cabs

I read something earlier today that I had never really considered. A post said you had to solder the top side and bottom side of the rectifier legs. I did that tonight and now seem to be getting 12V on TP3.

The bad news is that the MPU LED is locked on, but I can investigate that in the morning. At least the light turns on now!

The hole in the circuit board is supposed to be plated to electrically connect the top and bottom. The plated hole can stick to the original bridge rectifier lead. If a lead doesnt want to come out don't force it or you may end up with the plated through hole stuck to the component lead and the PCB no longer has a top to bottom electrical connection. A lead through the board soldered on top and bottom would work around a ripped out through hole.

These original rectifier boards are pretty tough to rework. Needs tons of heat and thermal capacity. I remember at times two handing it with a wand in one and and a vac gun in the other trying to get things hot enough all the solder melts and can be sucked off. Reflowing in some new solder can help at times too.

Well, still working through the LED being locked on and bumped the flipper button on accident. It had power and flipped! This is coming from the relay on the driver board, correct? I’d happily take suggestions on this since I’ve never had this happen. Off to the Wiki as well.

Bally Eight Ball problems.. Thx to all the responded and helped earlier...

WE have the whole game working .. BUT.. The right flipper will not..The coil hums and sorta twitches..

It is the correct coil. Brand New... It also will NOT jumper across and fire with the left coil....???

It has the correct 45v for power. Wire tested to the boards...We changed out rectifier boards from a known working game...

Kinda in over our head here ... Any help -guidance if surely needed.. I am hopeful its something easy and we are just overlooking the obvious......

Please Give Pinky T and Fonz some love...

Should be home around 11pm Central time. If you can PM at that time or would take a phone call from the Ms... Nick .

Check the End Of Stroke (EOS) switch. If everything is free mechanically, this seems like the most logical source of the problem. The EOS needs to be closed when resting and opens when the flipper has completed it's motion to the "up" position.

Switching gears here a little, I have a Stars and the right side coin switch stopped working out of nowhere. It's a larger clicky switch, and when I manually activate it with probes on the tabs the wires are attached to I get continuity. If I short those two tabs on the other switch, it chimes in a coin. If I do that on this one, nothing. Each switch on both the row and column is working, so it seems pretty isolated. But the switch also works according to the multimeter.