Hello All,

I have rebuilt one of my -35s with the exception of the processor sockets. I get 7 flashes and starts up ok. Game plays normal but weird stuff going on the displays while scoring. Is the processors my next step or? Where is the counting and scoring done on the board? Game works and scores fine with my spare Alltek...

In. Been bringing original boards back to life last few weeks. Happy to share lead poisoning.
Current titles: bmx, skateball. Past titles: embryon, silverball mania

Can you explain what type of weird stuff on the displays?

I'd suspect connectors, not the processor. If the game is booting, going into attract mode, starting a game, etc. then 68xx processor on board is fine.

The displays are controlled on connector J1 on the MPU board. Perhaps those pins could use a solder reflow but this is just a guess without much info about whats happening with displays.

_{Post edited by Spybryon: add more info}

Proud Centaur owner here. Am I in the club?!

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No flicker bulbs are solving another issue, not the one caused by the Bally boards. Totally different things.

Read this previous thread: http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/led-lights-in-bally-1978-ss-game-new-board-required

Solution: $1 worth of resistors (total), solder one to every single switched socket, or $5 of parts soldered to an interconnect adaptor at the driver board; or wait for the professionally made adaptor. ( I prototyped some myself but the cost to fab a small run was too much for what I thought people would want to pay, and I ran out of time to spend on the project ). Looks like someone else in this thread is working on the same idea.

With the resistor fix, you can use the 26 cent Comets or 29 cent (bulk) Ablaze's in a Bally. A lot cheaper than an Alltek or $2 LEDs! I have them running in my Vector nicely.

Here's all it takes to make an adaptor, need 3 of them, then tie the wires (one on each) to the correct side of just ONE switched socket. Plug them between the harness and headers on the lamp driver board and you are set.

BallyLED6.jpgBallyLED5.jpgBallyLED4.jpgBallyLED3.jpgBallyLED2.jpgBallyLED1.jpg

Clap-Clap-Clap

Thanks for laying out a solution- looks almost exactly what I am doing -I am always surprised how often this thread comes up... It's good to see people working on these games and I personally love LEDs.

by the way- can I join this club too

Bally Playboy.... Being restored currently

Thanks for the help guys. I think I'm going to go the route of soldering the resistors on each socket. I'm going to be replacing them anyway,

My previous 2 machines were post '86 and good condition, just needed a clean and plastics.
I have just gotten my first real project that is going to either kill me, or work well eventually.
It's a Future Spa, and came to me with the words that "the displays don't work, so cannot test it. But the rest is good." Famous last words.
Well....that is the last thing I am going to worry about for now. Half the boards are unplugged, and there has definitelty been work on the rectifier board, the MPU and possibly other boards. Not even going to attempt to boot it until I get boards checked. Then I can see if the displays are working or not. I have a lot fo work to do, and a lot of learning to do. But it gets me in the club I guess.
Considering sending the boards overseas to the USA to get checked. Can't afford to just replace with Allteks.

About half of the board is covered with thick mylar. Most of the inserts have a little dishing/cupping, but are in place. Not sure what to do. If I pull the mylar, I might lose a lot of artwork I cannot redo myself. If I leave the mylar over the inserts, it is hard to repair them. What do you suggest?

Some mylar in isolated places has bubbled and wrinkled a bit. As I said...I am hesitant to remove all the mylar, since once you start and paint starts coming off..there is no going back. In general, the playfield is in good condition with very little wear otherwise. And Future Spa has complicated art that would be a bear to have to redo. Do I cut off certain areas of mylar that are peeling, and leave the rest that is ok?

Chaos

Count me in. I have a Paragon and a Future Spa in this era. http:\\mcwhorters.net

Mac

My favorite era.

The collection today:
Medusa
Fathom
Embryon x2
Skateball
BMX
Future Spa
Paragon
Frontier
Flash Gordon

MPU-200 games (similar enough to include here hardware-wise)
Big Game
Flight 2000

Great idea for that LED resistor adapter. do you have a pic of it installed on the lamp driver?

With respect to mylar- I have pulled mylar off from 3 games, 1 of which has terrible paint and severe play field damage and a fairly big section of mylar. To be honest, the paint under the mylar is the strongest part of the entire play field. I would have zero reservations about pulling it up. Use a can of freeze spray (or inverted compressed air can) to freeze a 3 or 4 inch section, use a thin tweezers or something to get a grab of an edge and continue to intermittently spray in-between the mylar and the play field as you peel it up. It will come off and I bet you do not damage paint. IF it looks really bad and paint is coming up just stop, let it warm up and trim off the segment you peeled off and your back to where you started.

Yes, but what about artwork over inserts? Surely that is definitely going to peel, and it isn't an easy one to redo unless decals exist (they don't for Future Spa) or I can scan them and water transfer decal them (I can't)
Also, once mylar is removed, what are the options then? Can I Novus/Carnuaba wax and leave as is, or do I have to clearcoat?
Because the US clearcoat brands aren't available here, and no idea what to use that would work here.

Chaos

Bally did apply a thin layer of protection on their playfields called "Tuffcoat". This coating is nowhere near as robust as Diamondplate and seemed to wear very quickly. I have done NOS playfield swaps on games coated with Tuffcoat and started to see some slight wear after only a couple thousand plays. So, you can expect the same thing after removing the mylar. Novus won't provide any protection, but wax will help quite a bit, though it does track itself everywhere.

Best bet is to find another playfield and swap the old one out. A thin layer of modern clearcoat will solve any future wear problems.

Finding a good playfield for FS....slim chance.
Finding one in South Africa?.....no chance.
Shipping one from overseas.....priceless

Think I'll get the machine working 100%, and then decide on the way forward for the playfield.

Chaos

Leave the mylar on until you get all the electrical gremlins worked out. Then you can decide if it's a keeper game or not for you. After that, think about improving cosmetics.

4 time winner - 6M$M, Black Pyramid, Space Invaders, EBD. After realizing the similarities between lots of pins I like, I discover that Black Pyramid and EBD were designed by the same man, and S/I was designed by the same man that did Silverball Mania, Centaur, Playboy, El Toro.... No wonder I like all those games.

The game scores displays fine with my Alltek board in it. No flickering or any sign of bad display connection. Weird stuff on displays are like partial numbers and only a few digits out of the 6 showing. Put the Alltek in and its fine. Thanks for the response.

Flash Gordon purchased Friday. Centaur purchased today. Woo Hoo!

Thanks. Still a work in progress, but I'm happy with it so far.

These are the collection of -17/-35 games (right) and the m200 sterns (left) at the Ann Arbor pinball museum.

Stern m200 solidstate
1. 1980 Stern (Classic) Big Game
2. 1980 Stern (Classic) Flight 2000
3. 1980 Stern (Classic) Meteor
4. 1980 Stern (Classic) Nine Ball
5. 1980 Stern (Classic) Quicksilver
6. 1980 Stern (Classic) Seawitch
7. 1980 Stern (Classic) Star Gazer
8. 1981 Stern (Classic) Catacomb
9. 1981 Stern (Classic) Free Fall
10. 1981 Stern (Classic) Iron Maiden
11. 1981 Stern (Classic) Lightning
12. 1981 Stern (Classic) Split Second
13. 1981 Stern (Classic) Viper
14. 1982 Stern (Classic) Orbitor1

Bally classic solidstate
1. 1978 Bally Bobby Orr Power Play
2. 1978 Bally Eight Ball
3. 1978 Bally Strikes & Spares
4. 1979 Bally Harlem Globetrotters
5. 1979 Bally Kiss
6. 1979 Bally Paragon
7. 1979 Bally Playboy
8. 1980 Bally Embryon
9. 1980 Bally Fathom
10. 1980 Bally Mystic
11. 1980 Bally Nitro Ground Shaker
12. 1980 Bally Viking
13. 1980 Bally Xenon
14. 1981 Bally Centaur
15. 1981 Bally Eight Ball Deluxe
16. 1981 Bally Elektra
17. 1981 Bally Flash Gordon
18. 1981 Bally Medusa
19. 1982 Bally Baby Pacman
20. 1982 Bally Granny & the Gators
21. 1982 Bally Vector

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That's a great picture of an awesome collection~!

That's a lot of pinball goodness right there ....

Looking good Clay!

rd

Worthless! No Star Trek.

That's in a different universe!

I'm looking for a bally as-2518-50 sound board (A8) for my poor Paragon who for some reason as a -32 card in it. Anybody want to swap?

Hey mof, I'm not a tech by any means but do manage to keep my bally alive. The manual will say what value the fuse is. For F2 it is a 3/4A fast acting, it generally will say SB for slo-blo fuses. As far as the voltages, they all have a tolerance, + / - volt value. The only way I know to change any voltage is to change jumpers on the power supply for 110v, 115v, 120v etc. Hope this helps. Somewhere here Vid has a piece on bullet proofing these, and it's pretty thorough on the voltages and variances, and most anything else you need to address.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-quick-bally-driver-board-repair-bulletproofing

This is awesome. I'm going to post my SI restoration thread a little later today.

In the meantime....aux lamp driver board (AS-2518-52) troubleshooting:

1) replaced board with shiny new Alltek - lots of cracked pins on the old one
2) chaser lights still not working.

What's the best course of action? I have traced the power back to lamp driver and all seems well. wafer connectors solid.

My vector had an issue with the chasers. Found out that the machine screws holding in the bracket with the pin to align the front door when closing had shorted out the wires running behind it for the chaser lights. Pulled out the insert to repaint, and found the frayed edges, so sealed up, then pushed in deep to keep away from the other parts when reassembling.

I just fired up my Future Spa today. All was well ... Until I noticed a glitch.

When the first drop target is down, and the left spinner is spun, the game tilts.

None of the other drops trigger a tilt.

Obviously some issue in the switch matrix somewhere. I didn't get a chance to look into it tonight ... Anyone got any tips with this system?

rd.

For the record, I found the problem ... A stuck coin switch.

There are no diodes on the coin switches, so if they are stuck down ... Problems.

So now I can Spa in the Future as much as I want!

rd.

Only one, but it was my first ..... a gift from my wife for my birthday in 1985, so for me it has sentimental value too

SpeakEasy-4 (AS-2518-35, 1982)

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I'm in too! From the UK, I've got a PARAGON, which is a restoration project, and VECTOR.

The PARAGON was bought unseen and a known non-worker. It was also my first pinball. I've got a shop log on here (http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/adventures-in-budget-restoration-1978-bally-paragon) detailing how so far I've rebuilt the AS-2518-18 power supply module, brought the AS-2518-35 MPU back from acid-etched death, upgraded both AS-2518-22 solenoid driver/voltage regulator and AS-2518-50 sound modules. I've also stripped the playfield and backbox and started restoring various mechanical assemblies such as flippers. That first switch on after getting the MPU up and running was very exciting! My first pin, my first repair and my first game! I'm having some crazy experiments creating my own playfield overlay decal - have a look on my Flickr photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/peterduerden/sets/72157633156984778/ which is full of old rusty stuff being turned into nice shiny stuff

I wasn't planning on owning VECTOR, but one turned up at a very good price. They're fairly common in the UK and not particularly popular so can be had for a good price. I have to say it's turned out to be an excellent decision! I love the later 70s early 80s Bally era and VECTOR is a prime example stuffed full of inventive ideas before the obsession with ramps, wireforms and DMDs took over. My only gripe is it only has 1 pop bumper (I like bumpers) but it makes up by having 4 flippers (like PARAGON), 5 saucers and 3 banks of 3 drop-targets, plus the unique "Vectorscan" ramp that measures the ball speed which is shown on under-playfield mounted display! It's very handy having two pins that use almost the same parts (VECTOR has better sound module and power supply) and I was confident buying VECTOR as I knew what to look for. Having owned it for several months now the usual gremlins have crawled out of the woodwork: snapped coil end stops, loose screws on flippers and slingshots, disconnected wire on the tilt bob, snapped key in coin door, etc., but it's a really fun game. At first it seems simple like most Bally's of this era but trying to rack up a good score shows how difficult these games really are.

That's an interesting situation (Drop targets). I had more problems getting them to go down, but nothing a little WD-40 didn't fix. I would expect the catches aren't doing their job, which is likely due to them being loose, but I'll try to take a closer look.

There are differences, even in the earlier cabinets.

For example, Evel Knievel has the backglass door on hinges. Most of the earlier cabinets will be the same except for the ones with chime boxes vs a sound board. I think the physical wood pieces are the same, but the harnesses would have some differences. Most of the early Bally cabinets from 1977-1980 are real close with the above exceptions. More differences with the switch to the -54 power supply as the transformer moves from the head to the lower cabinet.

I believe Eight Ball Deluxe may have been the first Bally electronic cabinet with the backbox on hinges, yet that design is different from the hinges used on Fathom, originally manufactured just four months later. Also, the neck on Eight Ball Deluxe extends just under the lower surround, and that was changed with following games. Xenon has a swing out backglass door. Another example, Centaur and Medusa, and possibly others, have posts in the middle of the cabinet so that the playfield can be pulled out to rest on those slots instead of wood framing.

Other differences are very obvious: Mr and Mrs Pacman, Eight Ball Deluxe LE, Bally Midway vs Bally. I haven't owned them all so these are just the things I have noticed over the years.

Great club, already gotten some very useful information!!

I have Power Play, Mata Hari, Strikes and Spares, Playboy, EBDLE, Viking, Centaur, Paragon X3, Space Invaders for Bally, and Big Game, Seawitch, Viper, Meteor, and Iron Maiden for Stern.

Direct interchangeable cabinets for fathom would need to be centaur, EBD but other bottoms would be compatable with some work

Flash Gordon was the first machine with backbox hinges

Count me in the club. I had fixed up enough early Bally/Stern games to decide to build some testing/diagnostic tools for use at the bench or inside a machine to aid in repairing these games more easily. Got tired of chasing down issues after getting the 7 LED flashes and installing the board back in the machine multiple times. Wanted ways to test more thoroughly at the bench so came up with some plug-in testing tools. For the line-up see http://www.pinitech.com/products.php

I like many of this era of games and once you get to know the boards, they are pretty decent to work on.

bench_testing_tools.jpg

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http://www.pinitech.com - "Pinball Inspired Technology"

I think you may have mixed up EBD with Medusa, EBD has wood supports and Fathom has the metal support posts in the lower cabinet, plus the neck is different on EBD and uses a different hinge system. Unless of course you just have an odd EBD with some unusual features. I think Centaur and Medusa should work, though. Problem is, EBD and Medusa, Centaur are such in demand games that they would have to be basket cases to part them out for Fathom.

I think you are right about Flash Gordon being first with hinges, it preceded EBD by a couple of months. I don't like the hinges they used on Fathom and such, run into broken welds all the time. You can find the hinges for EBD at your local hardware store, not so for Fathom.

Another two Bally classics in the RD gamesroom .....

Nice guest appearance by Weird Al Yankovic on the Future Spa backglass.

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I think Centaur and Medusa are it. Of course, you would have to cover the extra flipper button hole for the demon post on the right side if you used Medusa. Like Hellfire said, plenty of games can be used if you don't mind making some adjustments. You could use Eight Ball Deluxe if you removed some of the wood support rails and replaced them with the metal supports used on Fathom.

Do you need another Fathom cabinet? I have one and you are welcome to it. It is just the wood cabinet, though.

Medusa is not interchangeable without relocating the hing pins and the shooter hole is in the wrong position.

There you have it! Looks like Centaur is it. Probably better off going with new than trying to find an acceptable Centaur cab. Amazing how many small differences there are with these cabinets all made within a short stretch of time.

It has been a number of years ago now, but I remember trying to find a door and hardware for a 1948 Dew Wa Ditty. Ended up buying a parts game and scavenging the door. There were plenty of differences in the cabs from one game to the next back then, too.