(Topic ID: 85292)

Bally/Stern AS-2518 Club !


By mof

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 19 hours ago by barakandl
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There are 1088 posts in this topic. You are on page 17 of 22.
#801 7 months ago

Maybe he could make said piggyback board that would connect to J5 with an extra connector on it so you could still connect Stern sound board cables.

#802 7 months ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

I like it! I only wish you had a spot to add another 6821 PIA and piggyback
breadboard experiment area.
( need more dipswitch options ) (need a few more switch strobe lines) Great job.

With the amount of available ROM/NVRAM space now, just implement "software settings" instead of requiring more dip-switches.
How many total playfield switches do you need? Can you get away with using more unused continuous solenoid data lines as switch strobe lines ala Fathom/Medusa - etc? The coin lockout coil data line could also be re-purposed as another switch strobe line.

#803 7 months ago

I just noticed on my Fathom the right flipper had no dead bounce when letting ball hit it and pass to left flipper. I have all new flipper parts and found play in the flipper crank. No biggie as I had a new one on hand but noticed that one as well had some play in it to? I had just gone through the same scenario on my Frontier a few weeks ago. After trying to re crimp part with a hammer which didn’t work I ended up using a little super glue placed on round donut part where it attaches to the crank and clamped it. I then played an hour with no issues but hoping it holds up. Anyone else noticing this part not crimped enough from factory? Any other ideas how to fix besides welding !

CC894989-67B1-464B-ADF3-C86B07161841 (resized).jpeg

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#804 6 months ago
Quoted from bonzo442:

Anyone else noticing this part not crimped enough from factory

The OEM part had two flat walls on the inside Dia. that help keep the set screw head from turning.

#805 6 months ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

The OEM part had two flat walls on the inside Dia. that help keep the set screw head from turning.

Hmm...I guess it’s just not made the same way anymore? I would say 1 out of 3 you buy have this play and it’s something noticeable

#806 6 months ago

Silly question..
On the -23 Lamp Board, can someone explain to me what R70 is used for? It *appears* to only feed the test point?

#807 6 months ago
Quoted from Coyote:

On the -23 Lamp Board, can someone explain to me what R70 is used for? It *appears* to only feed the test point?

Test point TP3 that's connected to pull-up resistor R70 on the Lamp Driver Board is there for manually testing SCRs. Connecting a wire from TP3 to the gate lead of any SCR should activate the respective lamp.
It's mentioned as part of the Lamp Board diagnostic procedure in the Bally Repair Procedures manual FO-560

There are also pull-up resistors connecting to test points only on the SDB that are used for similar purposes.

#808 6 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Test point TP3 that's connected to pull-up resistor R70 on the Lamp Driver Board is there for manually testing SCRs. Connecting a wire from TP3 to the gate lead of any SCR should activate the respective lamp.
It's mentioned as part of the Lamp Board diagnostic procedure in the Bally Repair Procedures manual FO-560
There are also pull-up resistors connecting to test points only on the SDB that are used for similar purposes.

Ah! Very cool. Thanks!

#809 6 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Test point TP3 that's connected to pull-up resistor R70 on the Lamp Driver Board is there for manually testing SCRs. Connecting a wire from TP3 to the gate lead of any SCR should activate the respective lamp.
It's mentioned as part of the Lamp Board diagnostic procedure in the Bally Repair Procedures manual FO-560
There are also pull-up resistors connecting to test points only on the SDB that are used for similar purposes.

Interesting. You learn something every day........ I'm going to use that one today. Have a lamp issue on my Seawitch that is driving me nuts

#810 6 months ago

I have a couple boards for sale from my Elektra pinball if anyone is interested. They are listed only on Pinside at this time.

You can PM if interested.

#811 6 months ago

Completing the restoration of my Flash Gordon, its been awhile since I have had to trouble shoot a pin and I am having this issue with FG.

Pin boots up with correct number of flashes 7, target reset, Playfield and displays light as expected.
Doesn't start a game when set on free play, alltek MPU game selection switch left most digit set to one.
Fuse under PF was checked and is good.

What else would prevent a game from starting?

#812 6 months ago

Does the game start when you manually add a credit? If yes there's an additional dip switch (#30?) In the settings that needs to be turned off for free play to work if I remember correctly.

#813 6 months ago
Quoted from Thrillhouse:

Does the game start when you manually add a credit? If yes there's an additional dip switch (#30?) In the settings that needs to be turned off for free play to work if I remember correctly.

Forgot about that dip sw #28 turns off credit display.

Now have to solve DT switches and GI issue.

GI issue, power board J1 heating up after being on for a few minutes

#814 6 months ago

I am having a problem with my Harlem Globetrotters that I am trying to bring back to life. I just put a new rectifier board into it and am getting nothing at all when I power it up. I think its possible I did something wrong but before I went down that road I thought I would check some voltages. The test points on the board show zero so I started from the wall.

At the wall I show about 120v AC ground to side. Coming in from the wall, I checked at FL1 (https://ia600809.us.archive.org/34/items/arcademanual_Harlem_Globetrotters_OPS/Harlem_Globetrotters_OPS.pdf page 40) and show 61v AC from ground to side. I am assuming that is normal as FL1 is converting to DC and the capacitors would cut into the AC on the source side??? IMG_2736 (resized).JPGIMG_2735 (resized).JPG

Then I checked the Service Outlet which is the next thing down the line. I am showing nothing on it in DC and a couple of volts in AC. IMG_2738 (resized).JPG

Is it possible my FL1 is not working or am I just not checking things right?

#815 6 months ago

Take a look at the wiring at the bottom of your filter

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#816 6 months ago

May need to replace the MOV?

#817 6 months ago

First and foremost check for continuity form plug too power supply input.

#818 6 months ago

thanks guys - its obvious I have something wrong, just not sure what its supposed to look like. I am pretty confident it is wired as spec'ed, hard to see the ribbing down in the box to see if hot and neutral are swapped - but I will double-check tonight. The way I am reading the schematic I should see 115v AC on the service outlet as that is literally the next thing down the line from the filter. Capture (resized).JPG

And that will be powered no matter what the main power switch is set to, is that right?

#819 6 months ago

Yes, that's right.

#820 6 months ago

I posted the pic b/c I do not see your service outlet GND wire screwed into the ground braid and filter.

#821 6 months ago

So....progress. The problem is compounded by my lack of ability to use a multi-meter. When I plugged a lamp into the service outlet it worked just fine. So power is successfully getting there. The next piece down the line is the power switch. Theoretically I should have power on both front sides (black/white wires) and no power on the back sides (blue/yellow wires) until its turned on. My initial test with the multimeter shows that I am getting 60v AC at all 4 connections no matter if the switch is on or off...IMG_2744 (resized).JPG

sigh, I no longer trust my ability with the multi-meter so I cannot tell if the switch is shorted on or not. Even if it is, then that still means I should have power on to the next stage down the line.

Going past that, reading page 40 and 43 of the schematic.

Output from the switch is the blue (30) and yellow (20) wires, running to A2J2-6 and A2J2-7. Page 43 shows A2J2-6,7 as coming in to the transformer but its tough to know where they go since it all goes to one line.

#822 6 months ago

Hard to tell from the photo how you have your DMM set up. However if you are seeing 60 volts you may be set to DC volts instead of AC volts. Because the signal is oscillating you will only see about half of the amplitude of an AC signal on a DC meter setting. Also check that the probes are in the correct holes on the DMM. There is usually 3 ... one common but the two other ones are for different functions. Both the switch and the leads need to be correctly set up for AC.

Also "feel" for the ribbing in the edges of wires. One outside edge should feel smooth and round, and the other outside edge will have a fine rib along it. I think they designed if for blind electricians

#823 6 months ago

If I had to pull a few chips and reseat to have the game boot after having fine that less than a few months ago when I got the game, what should I do to make it more reliable?

#824 6 months ago
Quoted from desertT1:

If I had to pull a few chips and reseat to have the game boot after having fine that less than a few months ago when I got the game, what should I do to make it more reliable?

Put new IC sockets in

#825 6 months ago
Quoted from dasvis:

Put new IC sockets in

Are the existing sockets not grabbing the IC legs well enough, or do they tend to have solder issues. Doesn’t matter either way, just curious.

#826 6 months ago
Quoted from desertT1:

Are the existing sockets not grabbing the IC legs well enough, or do they tend to have solder issues. Doesn’t matter either way, just curious.

Usually corrosion, and depending on the socket, bad tension in the pin holes.

#827 6 months ago

Oh wise ones to the Bally "OS" can I get your thoughts on the issue that "popped" up last night during initial fire up of my SBM post restore:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/polishing-up-a-silverball-mania/page/6#post-4167355

#828 6 months ago

There is no test like putting a game on location. Last night at my tournament Lost World was doing two things that were strange. The right pop bumper was triggering at random near the end of the night. The spoon/switch looked fine, but it was hard to get a good look. Also, players were getting tilts when the ball popped out of the right saucer if they flipped at the same time. I was able to duplicate this, but can't say for sure if it was an individual flipper doing it as I didn't have a ton of time testing.

Also, on two of the three pop switches, there were capacitors with one lead clipped. The third one didn't have one that I noticed. Was this intentional?

#829 6 months ago

There's a tilt switch on the bottom of the playfield that may be set a little to conservatively. Try opening it up and see if your tilts go away, vibration from the coils firing may be causing the issue. Most switches will have the caps on them that have long failed and cause funny behavior which is why they are clipped or removed. They are pretty cheap, I would replace those and the spoons on the pops at the same time. The game will work just fine with the caps removed/clipped though.

#830 6 months ago
Quoted from Thrillhouse:

There's a tilt switch on the bottom of the playfield that may be set a little to conservatively. Try opening it up and see if your tilts go away, vibration from the coils firing may be causing the issue. Most switches will have the caps on them that have long failed and cause funny behavior which is why they are clipped or removed. They are pretty cheap, I would replace those and the spoons on the pops at the same time. The game will work just fine with the caps removed/clipped though.

Thanks, I will check those things.

#831 6 months ago

With the caps clipped, you will see a marked deterioration in the sensitivity of the thumper bumpers. Those caps were installed at the factory on later games, and there was a service bulletin put out to add them to the early games. It really does make a big difference (at least to me). To the point I add them to the slingshots, and star rollovers too.

I've also experienced the random firing of thumper bumpers you described. I've done most of the "usual" tricks and they still sometimes do it. I'm all ears to what the experts out there have seen as the cause of the random firings.

As for the random tilt issue, I had a similar issue with a Night Rider (SS). It would tilt for no obvious reason except the game was in play when it tilted. Then I was able to pinpoint it would tilt when the ball landed in the saucer with the 5k amount lit and the spinner was still spinning. After looking at the switch strobes / returns used for the saucer I discovered the diode for one of the spinner switches was in backwards. It took a while to figure out, but hasn't done it once since I fixed the diode. I've also see GI voltage getting into the switch matrix cause some random scoring and tilts. Hope this helps.

#832 6 months ago

That's interesting about the caps on the bumpers, as mine are clipped as well. Do you recall the value of the caps?

#834 6 months ago

I would just replace ALL of the switch caps. Save yourself a lot of wasted time later on.... wish I would have.

1 week later
1 week later
#836 5 months ago

I found these blank operator test game reports mixed in with my Harlem Globetrotters manual and schematics. Check out the groovy self-sealing envelope! I highly doubt that my HGT was a test game given its serial number.

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2 weeks later
#837 5 months ago

Well just joined the club last night! First old Bally game for me, Harlem Globetrotters! Playfield is in great shape, but a lot of inserts are cupped, to compound it, the reason why the play field looks so good, is it is completely covered in mylar. Now I wonder would I destroy the near perfect paint taking it off to knock out the inserts to shave them smooth, and at the same time, no idea where to get replacement stickers for the inserts either.

#838 4 months ago

pulling off a whole-playfield sheet of mylar sounds so dangerous. I can't imagine what the odds are to not damage something.
Congrats on the Globetrotters! If I ever get mine working I expect it to be a lot of fun

#839 4 months ago

Speaking of Globetrotters, I have a question about one. I purchased the replacement MPU board (mine was missing.) When I turn it on after a couple of days, it seems to start up correctly. I get a click from the solenoid board around the 4th flash of the MPU board LED, then I get a second click a couple seconds later when the MPU LED gets to the 6th flash and the MPU LED stays on dimly (normal for the new MPU board)

What is weird is that after a couple of minutes, when power cycling, the first click happens and then everything stops - the MPU LED is solid on with just 4 flashes. I don't get any more flashes or a second click. I'm not sure what is clicking or if that is a symptom or the problem. Does anyone know what to check? I could send the MPU board back for testing but I suspect its somewhere else, something that warms up and stops working, just not sure what to look for. I have replaced C23 on the solenoid board but thats all so far.
Mark

#840 4 months ago

Question on the sound board in the Harlem Globetrotters pin, assuming it’s like the other sound boards of this era, when I’m in attract mode, as the scores blink on and off, you can hear them from the back box and speaker. I tried a new rottendog power supply board since it came with the game, and it really made the sound noticeable! Buzzing sound. I can even move my cell phone near the sound board and it will affect the sound of the game. Like getting reverb on a microphone. Would this mean the sound board is faulty to a point and requires replacement? I added a braided ground wire at the mount bracket on the top right corner and this didn’t seem to change things. Plus, I see that there is a volume knob on the board you adjust with a screwdriver, What is the other knob that is just above it for? Is that some kind of filter to combat this noise?

Thank you

Jason

#841 4 months ago

This game is basic but it is a lot of fun. Has me wanting to play one more game always. Seems like I’m replacing parts far exceeding the games value, but that’s ok, it is mine for now and I’ll make it as perfect as I can for someone else later.

#842 4 months ago
Quoted from mark532011:

Speaking of Globetrotters, I have a question about one. I purchased the replacement MPU board (mine was missing.) When I turn it on after a couple of days, it seems to start up correctly. I get a click from the solenoid board around the 4th flash of the MPU board LED, then I get a second click a couple seconds later when the MPU LED gets to the 6th flash and the MPU LED stays on dimly (normal for the new MPU board)
What is weird is that after a couple of minutes, when power cycling, the first click happens and then everything stops - the MPU LED is solid on with just 4 flashes. I don't get any more flashes or a second click. I'm not sure what is clicking or if that is a symptom or the problem. Does anyone know what to check? I could send the MPU board back for testing but I suspect its somewhere else, something that warms up and stops working, just not sure what to look for. I have replaced C23 on the solenoid board but thats all so far.
Mark

The u10 PIA chip might be flaky if the game locks the diag LED on the 4th flash when warm. You can try unplugging external devices and see if it still locks up (everything but mpu j4).

If you got the MPU from me I can send you another PIA or you can send the board back and I will take care of it. The PIAs and the CPU is the two devices im stuck with used pull parts. Generally if they survive the 24 hour burn in test I do they are good indefinitely, but rarely something comes up with the PIAs like that.

#843 4 months ago
Quoted from jetmechinnc:

Question on the sound board in the Harlem Globetrotters pin, assuming it’s like the other sound boards of this era, when I’m in attract mode, as the scores blink on and off, you can hear them from the back box and speaker. I tried a new rottendog power supply board since it came with the game, and it really made the sound noticeable! Buzzing sound. I can even move my cell phone near the sound board and it will affect the sound of the game. Like getting reverb on a microphone. Would this mean the sound board is faulty to a point and requires replacement? I added a braided ground wire at the mount bracket on the top right corner and this didn’t seem to change things. Plus, I see that there is a volume knob on the board you adjust with a screwdriver, What is the other knob that is just above it for? Is that some kind of filter to combat this noise?
Thank you
Jason

The other trim pot adjusts the sustain of tones.

Humming on these sound boards is usually a ground rerturn issue. The 43v/12v ground return is isolated back to the transformer panel and the logic ground is earthed through the board screw down mounting posts. When those ground are at different potentials you get a nasty buzz / hum.

Easy fix is to usually back off the screw down mounts and float the sound board in the game. Best fix is to make sure your connectors are good, cabinet ground braid is in. Backbox is earth grounded, etc.

Connectors on the sound board need to be good too. Bad electrolytic cap will cause noise too.

#844 4 months ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Easy fix is to usually back off the screw down mounts and float the sound board in the game.

I'll try these tricks tonight after work. Wish you had a sound board in stock, I'd order one right now just to be certain it isn't the board. Email me if you can when you have them back in stock!

Thank you,

Jason

#845 4 months ago
Quoted from jetmechinnc:

I'll try these tricks tonight after work. Wish you had a sound board in stock, I'd order one right now just to be certain it isn't the board. Email me if you can when you have them back in stock!
Thank you,
Jason

Sorry about that. I try and keep everything in stock, but I had a crush of orders on those sound boards lately and I ran out of PCBs. I got an email this morning that the blank boards are in production. I should have more built and ready to go in about a week.

New boards will have a pitch adjust pot, R35 (prev 9.1K) changed to a 20k cermet 3362p trim pot wired up like a rheostat. Fixed a few silk screen things. Few track routing changes. Some other minor changes to make assembly easier.

#846 4 months ago
Quoted from barakandl:

I should have more built and ready to go in about a week.

If you can, please email me when you've got one in, I'll order one just to replace mine, have enough new parts in the game, what is one more.

Thank you,
Jason

#847 4 months ago

Got a question about a switch on my Globetrotters. The Right Gate (Solenoid 13) seems wrong to me. According to the schematic ( http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/1125/Bally_1979_Harlem_Globetrotters_On_Tour_Manual.pdf ) I think it is supposed to have a switch on it. (page 45)

Note: Not sure as I am having trouble locating it on the schematic.

Looking at it on the table shows only part of the switch is there and its clean, it looks like it has never been soldered at all. Plus I can find no wires that look to be dangling. Seems weird and I was hoping someone could tell me if this is the way its supposed to be or not.

IMG_2908-closeup (resized).jpg

IMG_2909 (resized).JPG

#848 4 months ago

I am going to say that switch is not used as the CPU pays attention to the roll over switch in the outlane. That switch is leftover parts because of the type of assembly.

#849 4 months ago

thanks for the response!
on flippers there is an activation phase and a "keep it energized" phase and they have different voltages and are controlled by switches.

It makes sense that there is something similar on the gate since it stays open or closed, but it seems weird to try and do it without any switches at all. How is the CPU supposed to know how long to energize the solenoid...strange.

#850 4 months ago
Quoted from mark532011:

thanks for the response!
on flippers there is an activation phase and a "keep it energized" phase and they have different voltages and are controlled by switches.
It makes sense that there is something similar on the gate since it stays open or closed, but it seems weird to try and do it without any switches at all. How is the CPU supposed to know how long to energize the solenoid...strange.

It's a high-resistance, low-current solenoid. It can stay energized indefinitely.

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