(Topic ID: 85292)

Bally/Stern AS-2518 Club !

By mof

7 years ago


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There are 2732 posts in this topic. You are on page 14 of 55.
#651 4 years ago

I'm a glutton for punishment. If I were looking to build a Bally KISS from parts, are there certain machines I should be looking for when trying to locate a donor cabinet/harness? It would need to be a non-widebody with a transformer in the head, but were there any production differences in cabinets between the games in the AS-2518-XX run? What are the earliest and latest games I could consider using? Boards are not an issue, as I don't mind using repros.

#652 4 years ago
Quoted from spiroagnew:

I'm a glutton for punishment. If I were looking to build a Bally KISS from parts, are there certain machines I should be looking for when trying to locate a donor cabinet/harness? It would need to be a non-widebody with a transformer in the head, but were there any production differences in cabinets between the games in the AS-2518-XX run? What are the earliest and latest games I could consider using? Boards are not an issue, as I don't mind using repros.

There were minor differences at some point. Mystic (1979/80) was the first to have hinges on the head, I believe. The game before it (Rolling Stones) did not. That said, I don't believe the differences are large enough that you couldn't very easily put a RS into a Mystic cab. Of course the light panels are game specific.

#653 4 years ago
Quoted from spiroagnew:

were there any production differences in cabinets between the games in the AS-2518-XX run?

Most differences are on the side wood rails that support the playfield.
Some have cut outs at different points along the support rail in order
to make room for an overhang of components. This variation is most
likely on the lift side.

#654 4 years ago

curious if anyone can advise on a cabinent maker that can make me a new/better than new cabinet for a Fathom.

I recently picked up a project Fathom and the cab is in bad enough shape that it will need some major work just to prep it so I am thinking it would be nice to just have a brand new one.

Any tips? advice on price to expect? whom to go to (is this even an option?)

#655 4 years ago
Quoted from spiroagnew:

I'm a glutton for punishment. If I were looking to build a Bally KISS from parts,

What? Crazy talk. Can't be done. And why would you want to anyways... (One instance of unobtanium there as well - the ball gates at the top of the playfield are oversized and only came on KISS and I believe Paragon. Exceedingly hard to find.)

Shawn

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#656 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Any tips? advice on price to expect? whom to go to (is this even an option?)

Price will vary greatly depending upon amount of finish which will also vary the shipping cost. Minimalist approach is to have someone do a flat pack of all the parts that you then assemble, prep, prime, paint, etc. Max would be a finished product ready for wiring, boards, play field, etc. The few years I have been on Pinside I have heard of a scant few guys who do this and they are usually years behind. I would try to find a local cabinet maker who could reverse engineer one. (Disassemble yours to see how it goes together and then build a similar one.) Probably your best option.

Shawn

#657 4 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

What? Crazy talk. Can't be done. And why would you want to anyways... (One instance of unobtanium there as well - the ball gates at the top of the playfield are oversized and only came on KISS and I believe Paragon. Exceedingly hard to find.)

Good to know about the "unobtanium" ball gates. Since the machine would be a Frankenstein anyhow, I wouldn't mind experimenting with gates that would work make do (more than likely wire gates like the longer ones at the shooter entrance) until originals could be found. All this is just a fact finding mission anyhow. I just came back from Allentown where trashed Bally games from this era were plentiful...and only upon my return did I explore building my own Kiss. It was a missed opportunity.

1 week later
#658 4 years ago

Hi guys

I was almost about to start a Bally S/S club but found this instead!
I have a Fireball Classic and a very project Centaur II .
Centaur playfield is worn to the wood, but luckily I found a mint playfield on ebay.

I was going to sell the fireball classic but realised it will be a good reference point for getting Centaur going.
Impressed by the simplicity of the 2518 system, good fun gamelplay, and the reasonably good availability of parts!

Will post pics of centaur project as I get into it

A starter question - what lock do I need for the centaur II backbox? Is it just the normal style with a cam?

Thanks!

#659 4 years ago

Im having a problem with Fireball Classic. Switches are firing the wrong coils. The left sling fires the knocker, bottom and middle pop switches fire trough coils. No power to saucer coils but that may be a seperate issue. Changed out the mpu for known good one, same issues present. Pretty decent crud/corrosion visible inside the connector j4 pin 12 nd 13, could this be contributing? Checking diodes under the playfield now. Thanks for any advice fellows.

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#660 4 years ago
Quoted from Sinistarrett:

Im having a problem with Fireball Classic. Switches are firing the wrong coils. The left sling fires the knocker, bottom and middle pop switches fire trough coils. No power to saucer coils but that may be a seperate issue. Changed out the mpu for known good one, same issues present. Pretty decent crud/corrosion visible inside the connector j4 pin 12 nd 13, could this be contributing? Checking diodes under the playfield now. Thanks for any advice fellows.

Pins 12 and 13 are probably not the problem, but J4 is. Repin the connector and J4 on the SDB.

#661 4 years ago

Hey cool, found another club I can be a part of!
A couple before and after pics from Silverball Mania.
The game did work before I took ownership but I felt some updating of the caps and removal of battery was in order.

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#662 4 years ago

To go along with my earlier post, can other well versed members of this club check this thread link and offer your wisdom to the Q24 seen in the images but not on schematics?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/polishing-up-a-silverball-mania#post-3772292

#663 4 years ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

To go along with my earlier post, can other well versed members of this club check this thread link and offer your wisdom to the Q24 seen in the images but not on schematics?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/polishing-up-a-silverball-mania#post-3772292

Because you have a later Stern driver board installed. It's a slightly different design, but functionally interchangeable with the original Bally board.

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#665 4 years ago

Finally joined the club in a unique way......

I am doing a scratch build doing a custom pinball with a new full set of alltek boards that just arrived and pinscore displays. I have a long way to go and might need a little help along the way. The game will be using most of the features and rule set of Skateball.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tube-time-custom-surfing-pin

where can get new leads that go between the boardset and the 5 displays from ?

any help would be much appreciated.

#666 4 years ago
Quoted from swinks:

Finally joined the club in a unique way......
I am doing a scratch build doing a custom pinball with a new full set of alltek boards that just arrived and pinscore displays. I have a long way to go and might need a little help along the way. The game will be using most of the features and rule set of Skateball.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tube-time-custom-surfing-pin
where can get new leads that go between the boardset and the 5 displays from ?
any help would be much appreciated.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1041-third-coast-pinball

I read in one of his posts that his next endeavor is backrack cables, specifically for EBD, but maybe for others too.

#667 4 years ago

thanks heaps for that, will contact him

#668 4 years ago

I'm stumped, putting together my Centaur and I have no sound/speech. The rest of the game plays 100%.

My boards are all new.
Test cycle on the S&T runs perfectly.
S&T is from Applejuice, I tired 2532+2716 and 2732+2716 combo.
I have tried an Alltek MPU and Barakandl MPU with Oliver Rom.
I have continuity between the resistors of the MPU and S&T boards.
Options 18 is set to 3 and all my pots are turned up.
No sounds during game play or boot up.

#669 4 years ago

Bad cable at MPU J5?

#670 4 years ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

Bad cable at MPU J5?

J5 is not used. The resistor continuity mentioned above covers a bad cable

#671 4 years ago

Ok, question for you folks. I'm working on a Bally #Eight Ball.

Can someone who has one post a picture of the proper wiring for the lamp socket for the "Same Player Shoots Again" lamp on the playfield. Mine is disconnected and I want to be sure I have the right wires all in the right places before I connect something wrong and blow something.

While most of the lamps (i.e. the numbered balls) have just two wires (ground and a power wire) this lamp seems to have ground, power and two green heavier gauge wires. I know where the smaller gauge power wire goes, and I assume the uninsulated ground braid goes to the base of the lamp - but what about the other two green heavy gauge wires? Are they for this lamp also or do they belong somewhere else (in which case something is really screwed up under there).

Thanks!

- Gblaz

#672 4 years ago

The heavy gauge green pair will attach to your general or controlled illumination string, often opposite a large pair of orange wires of like size. The uncovered braid at the base of the bulb actually carries the current and the small wire atop the bulb goes back to a transistor on the light board that opens to allow the lamp to illuminate when called for by the MPU. The gen and controlled lamp power and return come on 18 gauge pairs of red, white, green and orange wire on Bally games.

#674 4 years ago

Just picked up a Black Jack (SS) and it's missing the transformer. Any place other than Big Daddy carry them? Anyone have a spare? I see the plastics are readily available, any word on backglass ever being done?

Added over 4 years ago: Looks like I've found all that I need. Hopefully I get it up and running soon.

#675 4 years ago

Transformers are getting hard to come by and are usually bought pretty quickly when they do show. They will occasionally pop up on e-pay for $45-$50 plus another $50 for shipping. (Heavy little buggers!) Your best bet is to snatch one up at a swap meet during a show. There were a few at TPF this year and I managed to get one of them. Good luck!

#676 4 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

The heavy gauge green pair will attach to your general or controlled illumination string, often opposite a large pair of orange wires of like size. The uncovered braid at the base of the bulb actually carries the current and the small wire atop the bulb goes back to a transistor on the light board that opens to allow the lamp to illuminate when called for by the MPU. The gen and controlled lamp power and return come on 18 gauge pairs of red, white, green and orange wire on Bally games.

Ok, that helps a lot. It confirms that I'm connecting the lamp socket correctly.

I still need some help diagnosing my problem on my #Eight Ball. I have a single lamp out - the "Same Player Shoots Again" lamp. I've done the obvious, like change the bulb and the socket. I've also replaced the SCR and it still won't light. I also checked the resistor assigned to the SCR and it reads the correct resistance.

I did a test that I found in a repair guide and used a jumper from ground to the Anode of the SCR and the lamp still will not light, which tells me its a problem after the lamp board. I can light any other controlled lamp using this method, so I'm doing the test correctly.

What could go wrong between the lamp socket and the lamp SCR that I should be checking?

Thanks,

- Gblaz

#677 4 years ago
Quoted from gblaz:

What could go wrong between the lamp socket and the lamp SCR that I should be checking?

In a word, connectors. Do a continuity check from the bulb socket to the SCR. That will give you the answer. Dirty or corroded connector, corroded plug, broken solder joint on the pins...etc.

#678 4 years ago
Quoted from Mk1Mod0:

In a word, connectors. Do a continuity check from the bulb socket to the SCR. That will give you the answer. Dirty or corroded connector, corroded plug, broken solder joint on the pins...etc.

Solved my problem on my #Eight Ball. The chart I was using (and the schematic too) have the positions of two of the lamps swapped - the credit lamp on the apron and the "Same Player Shoots Again Lamp". They are shown on the schematic as Q60 -credit and Q52-SPSA. But I realized by testing them again (by jumping ground to the Anode of the SCRs) that despite the schematic saying that Q52 should be controlling the SPSA lamp, it was lighting the credit lamp in the apron and conversely Q60 was lighting the SPSA lamp. I hadn't noticed before since the credit lamp is off to the side and I had been looking at the main playfield lamps when I was testing things.

So since they are swapped out, I had replaced the wrong SCR. Well, it should have been the right one, but anyway... I replaced Q60, which should be the credit lamp SCA and voila, my problem with the SPSA lamp is fixed...

So either the schematic is wrong, I'm reading everything in the world wrong or my machine is just wacky, but all is well with the world because both lamps light at the right times.

Maybe someone else will have the same problem and see this post later on.

- Gblaz

#679 4 years ago

So, for the benefit of all, I just found this:

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/760/Bally_1977_Eight_Ball_Service_Bulletin_Schematic_Errors_October_1_1977.pdf

And lo and behold it says "On J3, change J3-3 to S.P.S.A. : J-13-3 to CREDIT IND."

So what that doesn't mention is that by swapping those pins on the connector it also swaps everything about those two lamps throughout the lamp board schematic.

If I had found that before, it would have saved me many hours of trouble.... But at least I'm not nuts...

Nothing like having a 40 year old mistake drive you nuts for hours. Lesson learned.

But in the end, its solving stuff like this that makes me love tinkering with these darn machines to begin with. If they always worked, it wouldn't be nearly as much fun!

- Gblaz

#680 4 years ago
Quoted from eh97ac:

I'm stumped, putting together my Centaur and I have no sound/speech. The rest of the game plays 100%.
My boards are all new.
Test cycle on the S&T runs perfectly.
S&T is from Applejuice, I tired 2532+2716 and 2732+2716 combo.
I have tried an Alltek MPU and Barakandl MPU with Oliver Rom.
I have continuity between the resistors of the MPU and S&T boards.
Options 18 is set to 3 and all my pots are turned up.
No sounds during game play or boot up.

Bump

#681 4 years ago
Quoted from gblaz:

Nothing like having a 40 year old mistake drive you nuts for hours. Lesson learned.

In the process of building wiring harnesses for these games I have discovered more than a few discrepancies in the Bally schematics. Not that I'm complaining, though. Take a look at a "schematic" for a Stern game of the same era. Yikes!

#682 4 years ago
Quoted from eh97ac:

Test cycle on the S&T runs perfectly.

Does this mean you can "hear" the vocabulary in test mode? Or,
does the S&T do the correct L.E.D. flashes for the power on sequence?
What version S&T do you have early or late?

#683 4 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Does this mean you can "hear" the vocabulary in test mode? Or,
does the S&T do the correct L.E.D. flashes for the power on sequence?
What version S&T do you have early or late?

The vocabulary works and the board is from applejuice
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mypinballs-squawk-talk-sound-board-gordons-alive#post-2215922

2 weeks later
#684 4 years ago

Having just gotten everything back together on my Medusa rebuild, I'm now baffled by how to level the drop targets to the playfield. Right now they are well below the playfield and the ball gets stuck behind them constantly. This is easy to adjust on games like Centaur, with the bottoms of the assembly having a dovetail slotted adjustment. But Medusa does not appear to have any adjustment for the drops. What am I missing? There must be some way to adjust. Here's pics.

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#685 4 years ago

If you cut some tinfoil or similar material about an inch wide and wrap it around the base of the mech it will effectively shim the bottom of the targets to playfield level. I did that on both of my bally's after the playfield protector was causing stuck balls.

#686 4 years ago

The playfield thickness is on CPR side, they should know better.
On your playfield now, the back stand up are also below the level
that they should be at.... sad. I guess you can't have everything.

#687 4 years ago

I thought you adjust them by adjusting the lifting bar - so that when IT falls, it's not resting all the way down, holding the targets level with the PF?

#688 4 years ago

Just shim the area with something to raise the targets to the right height when they are down. Just about anything will work. This is common when a playfield is clear-coated.

#689 4 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

I thought you adjust them by adjusting the lifting bar - so that when IT falls, it's not resting all the way down, holding the targets level with the PF?

Some have adjustment screws in the bottom for this purpose. Perhaps you're missing those?

#690 4 years ago
Quoted from aobrien5:

Some have adjustment screws in the bottom for this purpose. Perhaps you're missing those?

There's no adjustment screws I can find. Other Medusa owners with a CPR playfield report this issue as well. I'm going to add a 1" wide strip of magnetic rubber, about 1/16th" thick, to the inside base of the drop targets. This should do the trick I hope.

#691 4 years ago
Quoted from calico1997:

There's no adjustment screws I can find. Other Medusa owners with a CPR playfield report this issue as well. I'm going to add a 1" wide strip of magnetic rubber, about 1/16th" thick, to the inside base of the drop targets. This should do the trick I hope.

You definitely don't have them, but perhaps they could be added. This is what I'm referring to. If you look closely, you can see the two screws sticking out the bottom. (I know this isn't a Bally, but is the only reference picture I had.)

IMAG1918 (resized).jpg

#692 4 years ago

Lesson learned, on CPR playfields test fit assemblies before doing
---- anything else. One now has to do pre-routed cuts to the playfield
---- in order for original assemblies to fit.

#693 4 years ago
Quoted from calico1997:

Having just gotten everything back together on my Medusa rebuild, I'm now baffled by how to level the drop targets to the playfield. Right now they are well below the playfield and the ball gets stuck behind them constantly. This is easy to adjust on games like Centaur, with the bottoms of the assembly having a dovetail slotted adjustment. But Medusa does not appear to have any adjustment for the drops. What am I missing? There must be some way to adjust. Here's pics.

Problem solved. I went ahead and grabbed some sheets of magnetic rubber from Home Depot. Five bucks. (Frost King brand in the ventilation department). I cut 1" wide strips. Each strip is about .015" thick. I used three layers for a total of .045". Slipped into the base plate of the drop targets no problem. Stays put. Drops are now level with the playfield.

Photo Jun 17, 3 29 52 PM (resized).jpg

Photo Jun 17, 3 26 26 PM (resized).jpg

#694 4 years ago

Nice solution!

#695 4 years ago

great idea, will remember that one

#696 4 years ago

My obsession with staring an early solid state Bally collection led me to purchase a "fully functioning" Centaur II from out of state and had it shipped to me. I started it up and played a few games without any issues. The next day it blew the F3 fuse before I could play another game and I haven't been able to get it back up and running since. I've read all 14 pages of this thread and watched some YouTube videos, but I'm still a little overwhelmed with how to figure out why the F3 fuse is blowing. I spent a couple hours last night taking all of the plugs off the boards, cleaning them, and reseating them...I know it is hard to tell visually, but everything seemed solid. When I replace the F3 fuse (4A) and turn the game on, everything starts up as normal - 7 green light flashes, lights on, displays on, solenoids fire - then, not too long after the F3 will blow again.

I'd welcome any suggestions with where to start.

#697 4 years ago

Replace BR2 on the rectifier board?

#698 4 years ago

AudioHaven If you on plug the mini aux lamp board and the game does not blow fuse...
check the two 15 pin connectors that interconnect inside the head.
One is marked 18 the other is marked 15. they both get confused.
They are both pinned alike but the wire colors are different, but ever
so slightly. I had the same problem. Movers were trying to take the head off
and got confused and switched those two connectors and ended up with
the same problems that you described.

#699 4 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

AudioHaven If you on plug the mini aux lamp board and the game does not blow fuse...
check the two 15 pin connectors that interconnect inside the head.
One is marked 18 the other is marked 15. they both get confused.
They are both pinned alike but the wire colors are different, but ever
so slightly. I had the same problem. Movers were trying to take the head off
and got confused and switched those two connectors and ended up with
the same problems that you described.

Interesting - I checked the big square connectors inside the head and they seemed correct. I unplugged the 15 & 18 connectors from the boards themselves, put a new fuse in F3, fired it up and it worked (without sound, of course). Played for 45 minutes without an issue. The only goofy thing is the general illumination was off and on randomly, it seemed - I'm not super familiar with when it is actually supposed to be on, though. Regardless I was super pumped to actually be playing - I love the game!

Thanks for the tip! Now what do I do to troubleshoot the issue with 15/18?

There are 2732 posts in this topic. You are on page 14 of 55.

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