Hello everyone! I am having problems researching solutions to an Over-The-Top counter for my 1976 EM pinball Aladdin's Castle. The counter always goes up by 1 after a complete game. From what little I understand of the game rules (and EM machines) the counter is for keeping track of scores in excess of 99,999. I have been manually resetting the OtT counter by pushing the piston into the coil until counter shows zero. The counter will continue to increase after each complete game. It is currently maxed out at 15 (I think) and no longer changes or buzzes after games. The counter does work during games where scores reach 100,000. Anyways, I understand if I receive little to no feedback, given my lack of understanding with EM pinball and the schematic with switches and relays. I readily admit my shortcomings but am willing to learn. I have the schematic/manual , and homework is needed on my part. Thank you for your time and patience.

Kevin

Here's a pic showing the counter?

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tfduda,

As I press credit button for new game, the counter goes down slightly, then springs up one number higher than current. It's been doing this for a while now. It stopped going down (stops at 15). If I manually reset this to zero, or any lower number, it will do the same down-up at credit. Hope this makes sense.

Hey Mopar,

It increases by 1 number for two cases:

1. When score reaches 100,000
2. After end of game, when 5th ball drains, then pressing credit button to start new game.

I should try it again and get you a clearer response to your question. Good info...keep it coming!

Thanks tfduda! I don't score over 100k too often. Sometimes my kids play, then don't reset score properly. It carries previous game score (or fraction of it) to next, then easily gets to 100,000. That's another issue...but easily resolved by pressing credit button firmly, or powering off and restarting game for score reel to read zero. I will check spring and repost with results. I hope it's the spring.

Thanks HowardR and Mopar!

I will. Thanks again Mopar. Very helpful. In case I need to replace parts, I have an okay copy of the original manual.

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Alright Guys,

Here's a video link showing the unit in action. Please excuse my commentary. My son was trying to follow my terrible directions due to my limited vocabulary.

To be honest, I'm not sure what the problem could be. Spring is a good start.

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Thanks again Mopar! Is there a way to "like" all of the feedback to give credit for your pinside profiles? I really appreciate the support.

Excellent! Thanks tfduda! You guys are very helpful, and I am so very appreciative of your time.

HowardR,

I need to do more digging before i can answer the question. I wouldn't be surprised if someone Jerry rigged this bad boy to sell for quick money. FYI - I purchased this machine in 2016 from Pinball Depot near Montreal (in case anyone was curious).

In case you guys are curious, I took another video of the credit unit in action. This video gives a zoomed out view.

Thanks!!!

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Thanks rolf,

I will get to it and let you know results. It's been a hectic morning with power going on and off during this snowstorm.

Ok, I may not have followed exact instructions. I unplugged plug from 1st coin chute adj (position 1) and plugged into position 2. Then, I plugged power cord and started game. It seemed the ball 1 never would end, like an endless game. I switched back to position 1 and its back to working like before. When I manually reset credit counter to 0, start a game, it goes back to 1. Interestingly enough, it has stayed at credit 1 for 3 games straight. I'll look more closely at rolf's feedback and get back to this forum with my findings.

Thanks!

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Hello rolf,

1. Yes, first pic is original setting. I will save this for future reference. Last pic shows the temporary change to position 1 at 1st coin adj.

2. I'll change 3 play adj. from position 1 to position 3 as recommended.

3. I'll unplug wire from Position 8 of coin credit adj.

4. I have some reading to accomplish. Stay tuned.

5. Sorry for the confusion. The original setting for 1st coin adj. was plugged into position 2. When I unplugged position 2 and moved to position 1, the games I started playing wouldn't advance ball past ball 1 ( no 2, 3, 4, 5 or end game). When I went back to original setting of position 2, the game played as it did with my original post/fault of credit counter going up 1 per game. This time, it counted up from 0 to 1 after first game, then after 2 more games it did not count past 1. It would drop to 0 temporarily and spring back to 1 as I started new games. It will probably be a matter of time before it continues counting up from currently shown 1 to 2 to 3...to 15 max.

Thanks again! I'll let you know how the above changes affect this issue.

Ok, completed steps 2 and 3. When I started a new game, the counter started going off like a machine gun, counting to intervals of 6. Each new game added 6 to the counter. I was at max 15 by third game. I then moved the 1st coin chute adj. from position 2 to position 1 and manually set counter in back box to zero. New games added 5 to counter...same result after 3 games, reaching max 15.

1st pic is original setring. 2nd pic is newer setting.

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No apologies at all! I am greatful for your feedback. Your time is valuable and it is helping all of us who have this pinball machine.

With that said, I confused positions 1 and 2 in my initial post. The first picture from that post should have shown the 1st coin chute adj in the 2 position as the default setting that I inherited. I meant to say switching this plug to the 1 position caused an endless game that did not progress to "end game." The original fault was not occurring, but the game never progressed past the 1st ball. That was a problem.

I will check to see if I have the bulb you're mentioning.

Original settings have now been implemented. I will start fresh tomorrow, following your advice listed above.

Thanks Rolf! Sorry for the delay in communication. I was at work all day. I'll be home tomorrow and will have time to troubleshoot per your instructions above. Stay tuned.

Hello Rolf,

Here is a video with credit relay and 5 subject switches.

I could not locate the black-yellow wire. I did relocate the plug from position 8 to position7 as mentioned in your most recent post.

I hope the video help.

Thank you!

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Rolf, I need to correct myself from the previous post. At one point in my video, I pressed the armature hard enough to open the EE switch. Yes, I confirmed the EE switch after looking carefully at my pics showing black-yellow and brown-white wires. I think you are on to something. Thanks!

Hey Rolf,

I tried the paper between contacts of switch EE and it didn't change the credit counter. Is it normal for the counter to show 1 after starting a new game? I continued playing two more games and counter would temporarily show 0, then show 1 again. I think it's stuck at 1 for the moment, which may be a good thing? I always thought it should reset to zero after starting a new game.

Another thing worth mentioning: When we swapped one wire from position 8 to position 7, the Over-the-Top buzzer and Name Light was met at a score of 99,000. I thought that was interesting since it previously buzzed at 100,000.

Anyways, I temorarily removed the insulators to show soldered connections. Please see the pictures and let me know if there are any obvious issues.

Thanks again! There is no rush. I totally understand the time difference.

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Hello Rolf,

Will any of the pictured bulbs work (except for the standard sized incandescent)?

Based on my video showing the credit relay armature and EE switch, do you think the contacts "A" are too tight, preventing them from opening? I guess the paper trick we tested yesterday proves this wrong since current is impeded by the paper, making the switch open even before being activated.

I tried checking "B" but it doesn't appear studs are causing a fault through contact with wire. I added more pictures for further clarification. Also, there are more pics showing "D" and "E".

Thank you for explaining how the credit counter operates. Just to be clear, I have never used the coin slots to play this pinball, only "freeplay" via the credit button.

You are correct about my recap in post 43. I just wanted to make sure you knew the fault still occurred (no improvements or changes).

Yes, it's the Coin Credit Adj position 7 and 8 that was discussed in previous posts [post 35]. I unplugged the red wire from Score Adjustments in back box, but fault still remains after starting new game. I then put the red wire back where it was before unplugging, to restore default condition. Does this answer the question "make Replays by the Score-Drums"?

As for the 2nd Coin Chute Adjust, the wire is yellow-gray, and matches the yellow-gray wire at 3rd blade of 2nd Coin Relay. I'm not sure of the unused black-yellow wires purpose.

Hope this answers most of your questions. Thank you so much for your help!

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Thanks Rolf! I'm plan on troubleshooting this weekend, maybe tomorrow evening. I'll get you results and answer your other questions. I need to buy extension cable. All I have are jumper cables with alligator clips. As for attaching to the bulb, do I use electrical tape to keep wire in contact with base of bulb? Does it matter how I attach alligator clips to the credit replay coil (at lugs, where wires are soldered)? Red/Black wire orientation (+/-) make a difference when attaching to the coil? I want to make sure I don't short a fuse or burn out some other component.

Thanks again!

I used to live in Westland, MI and East Lansing, MI and Indianapolis, Philadelphia. Now I'm in the South (Raleigh, NC suburb). Wish I was closer for help. This is a fun learning experience for me. Thanks for offering, Skidave!

HowardR, I may need your expertise. I’ll PM my number.

Phil-Lee, I’ll check what’s underneath the green tape at Jones Plugs. Good observation.

Rolf,
I still have not performed any testing using the light bulb. I did locate the Score-Motor-Cams for familiarity purposes. The extension cable will need to be purchased before initial testing. Please stay tuned for future posts regarding the test results. Based on my 1st response to your latest post, can you guide me on how to attach the extension cable to the old fashion Edison type bulb? As for the outgoing clips, I am also hoping for guidance on connecting them to the Credit Unit RESET coil (gator clips). I’ll then verify which Score-Motor Switchstack actuates at the exact time the bulb lights up, whether it’s THIRD or some other number. Also, will the Score-Motor-Cams function (during the light bulb test) when the playfield is elevated?

Based on your advice, I’ll move on from the Credit Unit Relay since we are not finding a fault at this location.

For additional information, I took photos of the 2nd Coin Chute. I believe the 2nd Coin Chute is shown In the picture where coin door is open. The top blade has an ORANGE-WHITE wire attached. The bottom (side closest to front of coin door face) has an ORANGE-BLUE wire attached.

As for the 2nd Coin RELAY (Not 2nd Coin Chute RELAY), I see GRAY and ORANGE wires going to the top (farthest back) switch, and GREEN, YELLOW-GRAY, YELLOW-BROWN going to the other (closest to front of cabinet) switch. This RELAY appears to have 2 switches.

As for the 2nd Coin Chute RELAY, there are 4 switches. Starting from farthest switch, you have YELLOW-GRAY, YELLOW, DARK GRAY (I think), SILVER-OLIVE GREEN, RED, WHITE, SILVER-GRAY.

For the 2nd Coin Chute Adjustment, I’m not seeing where this YELLOW-GRAY wire attaches to the 2nd Coin Chute.

I’ll need to purchase extension cable for testing. I appreciate all your support!
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Rolf, you are a genius!!! Unplugging the Adj plug "2 coins 3 plays" worked!!! The credit counter steps down every time a new game begins! Is there anything else I should do concerning this plug (wrapping/taping to the side) to avoid fire hazard? I am so happy at the moment.

Thank you!

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Here it is:

Hello Rolf,

AAA - good workaround for me. I like not having to desolder the brown wires. It's not a big deal if I decide to desolder those 2 brown wires from the adjustment plug hole, keeping them soldered together and safely taped off to the side.

CCC - paper trick finds the problem! Check out my video below:

Looks like 3rd coin chute relay is causing the fault. You are a problem solving machine!

Hi Rolf,

This game has 3 coin slots but the middle slot is closed off (see pic).

As for the 3rd coin chute relay, the wire that goes from side of coil to switch is Red-White. The other color attached to coil is Red-Black, but it ties into the plastic connector underneath the relay.

Hope this makes sense!

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Rolf, thanks for all the info. I'm going to start back up after Christmas. I'll make sure to respond to your post.

PinballBrian, thanks for the info.

Hey guys,

Sorry for the long delay.

Rolf,

Thanks for explaining the purpose of those 3rd coin chute relay wires of color red-white/white-red and yellow.

As for the 3rd coin chute relay, I see only one wire (orange) per you question in post 64. I took plenty of pics to make sure we are talking about the same wire.

I'm definitely leaning towards option FFF. This option would look cleaner, even if it eliminates usage of coin slots. Since this is for home use, I'm not too worried about the coin chutes.

Please see the following video with thin paper blocking the switch mentioned above for the 3rd coin chute relay. I'm not sure if it's pulling or not.

Thanks Rolf!!!

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Hey Rolf!

Check out this video showing game start after desoldering orange wire, double-brown wires, readjusted stuck switch, and plug-in at 3rd position of previously empty adjustment plug. The coin slot does not seem to work. I'm fine with how this machine is working.

I added more pic.

Thank you Sir!

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Thanks Rolf!

I'll make sure to label those desoldered wires and make note of what doesn't work.

As for free play, I'm not sure. It doesn't require quarters, and I just press the credit button and play as if it's free. I'll look into the settings and read your older posts mentioning free play.

When coin chutes become an interest, I'll make sure to revive this thread. At this point, I'm very happy with all the help and time you've donated. It means a lot, especially since you're all the way in Europe.

Yeah, I tried FFF (desolder short orange wire from relay switch blade) and it didn't eliminate the machine gun credit counter, even with plug in 3rd position of the adjustment. That's when I decided to desolder the 2 brown wires and keep the plug in that same 3rd position. It's not exactly FFF but it works. I guess I could resolder the orange wire and leave the brown wires as desoldered.

Thank you so very much for your help! I hope to revisit this post for future reference. It has forced me to become familiar with this pinball machine, and I have a better understanding of how to read the schematic.

Well done, Rolf!!!

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