(Topic ID: 231136)

Bally Aladdin's Castle Over-The-Top Counter Issue


By durgee7

6 months ago



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There are 73 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 6 months ago

If you'd like to try a phone call, durgee7, send me your phone # in a private message.

#52 6 months ago

Sorry Rolf it took so long.here are pics of mine.if you need more just say.again thanks.i hope wires are correct.my machine is still not working.im where we left off on last forum.was able to play game ( DC playfield)but kickers and start sequence not).ha ha.havnt forgot,just busy with another machine right now.again thanks

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#53 6 months ago

Sorry Rolf it took so long.here are pics of mine.if you need more just say.again thanks.i hope wires are correct.my machine is still not working.im where we left off on last forum.was able to play game ( DC playfield)but kickers and start sequence not).ha ha.havnt forgot,just busy with another machine right now.again thanks

#54 6 months ago

I see green tape wrapping the wires coming from the bottom of the cabinet going to the Jones plugs in the head. Is it possible these wires were cut and re-attached? Just curious.

#55 6 months ago

HowardR, I may need your expertise. I’ll PM my number.

Phil-Lee, I’ll check what’s underneath the green tape at Jones Plugs. Good observation.

Rolf,
I still have not performed any testing using the light bulb. I did locate the Score-Motor-Cams for familiarity purposes. The extension cable will need to be purchased before initial testing. Please stay tuned for future posts regarding the test results. Based on my 1st response to your latest post, can you guide me on how to attach the extension cable to the old fashion Edison type bulb? As for the outgoing clips, I am also hoping for guidance on connecting them to the Credit Unit RESET coil (gator clips). I’ll then verify which Score-Motor Switchstack actuates at the exact time the bulb lights up, whether it’s THIRD or some other number. Also, will the Score-Motor-Cams function (during the light bulb test) when the playfield is elevated?

Based on your advice, I’ll move on from the Credit Unit Relay since we are not finding a fault at this location.

For additional information, I took photos of the 2nd Coin Chute. I believe the 2nd Coin Chute is shown In the picture where coin door is open. The top blade has an ORANGE-WHITE wire attached. The bottom (side closest to front of coin door face) has an ORANGE-BLUE wire attached.

As for the 2nd Coin RELAY (Not 2nd Coin Chute RELAY), I see GRAY and ORANGE wires going to the top (farthest back) switch, and GREEN, YELLOW-GRAY, YELLOW-BROWN going to the other (closest to front of cabinet) switch. This RELAY appears to have 2 switches.

As for the 2nd Coin Chute RELAY, there are 4 switches. Starting from farthest switch, you have YELLOW-GRAY, YELLOW, DARK GRAY (I think), SILVER-OLIVE GREEN, RED, WHITE, SILVER-GRAY.

For the 2nd Coin Chute Adjustment, I’m not seeing where this YELLOW-GRAY wire attaches to the 2nd Coin Chute.

I’ll need to purchase extension cable for testing. I appreciate all your support!
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#56 6 months ago

If you guys need more pics of my machine,just ask.pm me.

#57 6 months ago

Hi durgee7
in short - pull out the Adj-Plug "2 Coins 3 Plays" and lay it nearby on the wooden panel --- none of the 4 plugs shall touch metal. Then start a new game - does the "original fault" still happen ?
If "Yes": I will wine, cry.
If "No" - as a temporary (fix / ) work-around: Look at the socket of this Adj stuff - in position "3" ONLY the plug with wire-color-green gets into contact with another wire (of color-brown) - unsolder this wire-color-brown away from its socket-solder-lug and tape the unsoldered end of this wire.
With this unsoldering done: Plug-in the plug in position three - none of the plugs will get into contact with another wire (socket) - the plug is stored away.

Thanks for post-55 and the pictures. I had a look at - grumble, You show a relay "2nd Coin Relay" - BUT it is the "2 Coins 3 Plays Relay" - I started do draw my JPG --- hey, in the beginning of post-30 I wrote about "wacky theory" --- lets look again at this wacky theory (see the JPG, lower right corner): IF (if, if) You have an faulty always closed switch on 3rd Coin Chute Relay (or the relay is faulty pulling) --- If You have the Adj-Plug "2 Coins 3 Plays" in position-1: Original fault (when Score-Motor-Cam-8 actuates its switchstack), if You have the Adj-Plug "2 Coins 3 Plays" in position-3: Faulty stepping up the Replay-Counter like crazy. Greetings Rolf

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#58 6 months ago

Rolf, you are a genius!!! Unplugging the Adj plug "2 coins 3 plays" worked!!! The credit counter steps down every time a new game begins! Is there anything else I should do concerning this plug (wrapping/taping to the side) to avoid fire hazard? I am so happy at the moment.

Thank you!

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#59 6 months ago

Here it is:

#60 6 months ago

Hi durgee7
great - by unplugging You made / make it impossible the "original fault" to show up.
AAA - You put the unplugged plug into a paper or plastic bag - tape the opening of the bag - none of the four plugs (in the bag) can get into contact with metal like wires or solderlugs.
BBB - The socket of the "2Coins 3 Play Adj." has in position 3: Three sockets without a wire soldered-on. The fourth socket (in pos-3) has soldered-on two wires of color-brown. You unsolder these two wires away from the socket - the two wires must still be soldered together. You tape this place on "wire-brown", You now have four empty sockets (in pos-3) so You can plug-in the Adj-Plug in to pos-3.

AAA and BBB are work-arounds to make it impossible the fault to show up.
CCC is (trying) to fix the fault - either the 3rd Coin Chute Relay is faulty pulling (and the switch is entitled to be closed (as the relay is pulling)) - or the relay is not pulling but the "Switch on 3rd Coin Chute Relay" is faulty always closed - the switch has soldered-on wire of color green (as the wire-green on the Adj-Plug) and has soldered-on wire of color black-white.
Toggle-off the pin, unplug the main power cord - locate the 3rd Coin Chute Relay and its switch open when the relay is not pulling ? solderlug bent ? drop of solder ? doghair crap of wire ? Maybe want to try the trick with the sneaked-in stripe of paper ?
Plug-in the main power cord --- You watch the relay - ask Your kid to toggle-on the pin: Does the rela pulls-in ? Ask Your kid to start a game: Does the relay pulls-in ?

DDD - Maybe You do not have the 3rd Coin Chute Relay ?

Write about AAA or BBB or CCC or DDD, greetings Rolf

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#61 6 months ago

Hello Rolf,

AAA - good workaround for me. I like not having to desolder the brown wires. It's not a big deal if I decide to desolder those 2 brown wires from the adjustment plug hole, keeping them soldered together and safely taped off to the side.

CCC - paper trick finds the problem! Check out my video below:

Looks like 3rd coin chute relay is causing the fault. You are a problem solving machine!

#62 6 months ago

Hi durgee7
thanks for the flowers. In post-32, fourth picture, open Coin-Door: I had / have the impression You have TWO Coin slots --- do You have two or three ? Depending on Your answer we do troubleshoot. See the first JPG - the wiring to feed the Coil of the 3rd Coin Chute Relay - when You press the Credit-Button: The 3rd Coin Chute Relay shall not pull-in.

See the second JPG - I drew "yellow lines" --- from one side of the coil on a relay a wire runs to switch mounted on the relay --- on Your 3rd Coin Chute Relay I am not sure - cannot see it - question: Does a wire runs from (one side of) the coil on Your 3rd Coin Chute Relay - runs to a switch mounted on the relay ? what colors on the wires on this switch You see ? Greetings Rolf

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#63 6 months ago

Hi Rolf,

This game has 3 coin slots but the middle slot is closed off (see pic).

As for the 3rd coin chute relay, the wire that goes from side of coil to switch is Red-White. The other color attached to coil is Red-Black, but it ties into the plastic connector underneath the relay.

Hope this makes sense!

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#64 6 months ago

Hi durgee7
thanks for looking up - thanks for the pictures (post-63). Good, a short wire runs from one side (solderlug) of the coil --- runs to a solderlug on a switch mounted on the relay, the 3rd Coin Chute Relay. You say the wire is of color-red-white - the schematics says color-white-red. You have also checked the other side of the coil - wire-color-red-black - the schematics says color-black-red. This we can see in the first JPG in post-62. "Red-black / black-red" is the Power-Side-Connection coming from the transformer-POWER-SIDE (((in this Power-Side-Connection is a switch on Delay-Relay but the switch is closed most of the times))). "Red-white / white-red" is the beginning of connection towards Transformer-Lug-Yellow is returning side of the transformer. In this wiring towards Transformer-Yellow is / are one or more switch(es) to let current flow. Williams and Bally pins have "switches to actuate relays (current shall flow through windings on coils) - switches in the Return-Line-to-transformer" ( - Gottlieb has switches to actuate relays in the POWER-SIDE connection to the coils).
O.K. You press the Credit-Button and the 3rd Coin Chute Relay faulty pulls in - we must investigate "downwards in the JPG - my "marked orange / blue / brown" wires and switches. See in the JPG straight down "my blue" wire to "3rd Coin Chute (Switch)" - but You don't have such a 3rd Coin Chute - how is it wired in Your pin ? See the first JPG in post-62, upper right corner - the short wire from one side of the coil coming to one lug on a switch mounted on the relay --- how many wires are soldered-on on that lug on the switch ? One is the short wire coming from the coil - and then ONE or TWO or THREE - how many ?

Remember my AAA, BBB, CCC, DDD in post-60 --- I now come up with FFF: You may decide "I (means You) unsolder the short connecting wire (coil to switch) away from the solderlug on the coil and tape the unsoldered end of this short wire" - with this unsoldering You make it impossible for the coil to get current - the 3rd Coin Chute Relay never can actuate - and when all the switches on the relay are adjusted correct: You then can plug-in into third position "Plug 2 Coins 3 Play" and start games by pressing the Credit-Button. This FFF is as the AAA and the BBB: Work-around, not a true fix.

Oooups - in the first JPG in Your post-63 I see on both Coin Chutes the text: "1 Play 1 Quarter / 3 Plays 2 Quarters", hmm - the FFF, AAA, BBB may make it impossible for You to use the Coin Chutes (?) - we never have talked about Your Coin Chutes - what happens when You throw-in one quarter ? what happens when You throw-in two quarters ? How much interested are You in "having fully functioning Coin Chutes" ?

Besides "everything written above": I am interested in the result of a test: Toggle-off the pin and unplug the main power cord, then sneak-in a stripe of paper inbetween the contactpoints / switchblades on that switch ( short wire runs from coil on 3rd Coin Chute Relay - runs to switch mounted on the relay) - THIS switch please make "always open" as You sneak-in the stripe of paper. Then plug-in, toggle-on - watch the relay - start a game - does NOW the 3rd Coin Chute Relay pull-in ? or does it not pull-in ? Greetings Rolf

P.S. pinballbrian : Do You still read the posts in this topic ? How many Coin Chutes do You have ? Do they work ? What text do You have on the Coin Chutes ? How do You have them plugged ?

#65 6 months ago

Hi Rolf,yes i have been following thread a little.just happened to look at thread today.i see you have note for me.i have 2 coin chutes. ( see pic). NO,I don't think they work. I dont understand text on chutes,but will send pics.i hope this helps.if you need better pics,just ask.rolf,you helped me get my machine playing on DC circuit side.game plays,but no kickers,and other functions if you remember.i never completed game where I can push start and game plays. ( you may have to look back at old forum,that's where I left off a year or so.want to finish this winter.again thanks.

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#66 6 months ago

Hi Rolf,durgee.just wanted to say what my old forum was,(Bally alladins castle won't reset,resolved).only it was not totally resolved.ha ha.hope to finish this winter.i will keep up with this forum.again thanks.

#67 6 months ago

Rolf, thanks for all the info. I'm going to start back up after Christmas. I'll make sure to respond to your post.

PinballBrian, thanks for the info.

1 week later
#68 5 months ago

Hey guys,

Sorry for the long delay.

Rolf,

Thanks for explaining the purpose of those 3rd coin chute relay wires of color red-white/white-red and yellow.

As for the 3rd coin chute relay, I see only one wire (orange) per you question in post 64. I took plenty of pics to make sure we are talking about the same wire.

I'm definitely leaning towards option FFF. This option would look cleaner, even if it eliminates usage of coin slots. Since this is for home use, I'm not too worried about the coin chutes.

Please see the following video with thin paper blocking the switch mentioned above for the 3rd coin chute relay. I'm not sure if it's pulling or not.

Thanks Rolf!!!

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#69 5 months ago

Hi durgee7
end of vacation and back to the Aladdin's Castle. Thanks for the pictures and the video. In the video I clearly see the stripe of paper inbetween the contactpoints on the Self-Hold-Switch on the 3rd Coin Chute Relay. I see that the relay pulls-in when You press the Credit-Button / Start-Button.

The reason I asked You to do this test (sneaked-in stripe of paper) is: When a relay (at start-up) faulty pulls-in and faulty stays pulling we usually say "stuck playfield switch". See the JPG - You have on Your playfield FOUR stand-up switches behind some rubbers worth 10 points --- locate one, then when the pin is "in play": With a finger press the switch closed for 10 to 30 seconds - You simulate "stuck playfield-switch" - You endlessly feed (10 to 30 seconds respectively) Initial-Current to the Coil on the 10-Point-Relay. 95 out of 100 such problems truely are "stuck playfield switch" - BUT in the JPG we see: Also Self-Hold-Current (my orange stuff) feeds to the Coil. When the pin is in play and You hold the tip of a screw-driver*** at both blades of the Self-Hold-Switch (the switch with the short wire running to one of the coil-solderlugs): You will get "machine-gunning of the relay and the Score-Drum" - You make a faulty always closed "10 Point Re. Switch, encircled brown" --- the "1st Player 10-90 Unit (Score-Drum) E.O.S., encircled brown" actuates and actuates and You have the machine gunning. IF (if, if) this E.O.S.-Switch accidentally, faulty never opens: You then would have the same symptoms as "stuck playfield-switch". But 95% of this kind of fault ARE stuck playfield switches.
Your "3rd Coin Chute Relay is very mysterious - so I asked You to do the test "sneaked-in stripe of paper" to make sure the fault You have is NOT a faulty closed Self-Hold-Switch on the 3rd Coin-Chute Relay --- the faulty pulling-in of the relay happens through the "Initial-Current wiring".

We have talked about the "FFF" - unsoldering the short wire running from switch to coil - unsoldering away from the lug on the coil and tape the unsoldered end of the wire.
Then after unsoldering: Start a game - what happens ? Are You happy with what You get ? When You throw-in a Coin: What happens ?
Is Your pin already set to "Free Play" - "Free Play" means: We have Zero Credits on the Replay-Counter but when we press the Credit-Button / Start-Button: The pin tries to subtract an replay - but mechanically it is not possible - nice: And the pin then starts a new game.
Many owners of an EM-Pin (me also) have set their pins to "Free Play".

We can look further at the "Throwing-in a coin" and the setting of the different Adjustments in Your pin (I am motivated to help) - but first I would like You to do the "unsoldering of the short wire" - and then later we look further at the "Throwing-in a coin" etc. Greetings Rolf

P.S.: "Tip of a screw-driver***": You well might only read my writing about the tip of a screw-driver*** and NOT do the test --- You well might only read my writing about simulating an stuck switch on the playfield. Most of my writing in this post is "rather theory".

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#70 5 months ago

Hey Rolf!

Check out this video showing game start after desoldering orange wire, double-brown wires, readjusted stuck switch, and plug-in at 3rd position of previously empty adjustment plug. The coin slot does not seem to work. I'm fine with how this machine is working.

I added more pic.

Thank you Sir!

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#71 5 months ago

Hi durgee7
when You can live with "what we have by now": Make a good descriptin of "have unsoldered and taped the end of the unsoldered wire" - mention in the description papertags - do put papertags on unsoldered wires. Also make an description of "what still does not work". (((I do forget within a couple of weeks and then, later I need an good description of what I have done.
Is Your pin set to "Free Play" ? Please write. Pins in Home-Use really should be set to "Free-Play".

It would be nice to have working Coin Chutes - I wonder what happens when (pin is toggled, on - You wear rubber gloves, exercise care as there is 48VAC in the pin) when You manually press the armature of "2nd Coin Chute Relay".
You may play Your pin for a couple of weeks - then say "want to have the Coin Chutes working" - revive this topic - or by now You already say "want to have the Coin Chutes working" ...

In Your pictures (post-70) I see "stand-up Leaf-Switch behind rubber - usually worth 10 points". The fault "10 points-Relay pulls-in and stays pulling forever" is very often caused by a stuck stand-up Leaf-Switch" and the reason that this is caused very often is: We take away the old rubbers, clean the playfield and accidentally bend such a switch closed --- or: After cleaning we mount new rubbers --- they are a bit thicker than the old ones - an "adjusted tight stand-up switch" is now closed by the new, thicker rubber. Greetings Rolf

(((P.S.: I have a problem of matching: My description of the FFF (post-64) does not match Your description at beginning of post-70)))

#72 5 months ago

Thanks Rolf!

I'll make sure to label those desoldered wires and make note of what doesn't work.

As for free play, I'm not sure. It doesn't require quarters, and I just press the credit button and play as if it's free. I'll look into the settings and read your older posts mentioning free play.

When coin chutes become an interest, I'll make sure to revive this thread. At this point, I'm very happy with all the help and time you've donated. It means a lot, especially since you're all the way in Europe.

Yeah, I tried FFF (desolder short orange wire from relay switch blade) and it didn't eliminate the machine gun credit counter, even with plug in 3rd position of the adjustment. That's when I decided to desolder the 2 brown wires and keep the plug in that same 3rd position. It's not exactly FFF but it works. I guess I could resolder the orange wire and leave the brown wires as desoldered.

Thank you so very much for your help! I hope to revisit this post for future reference. It has forced me to become familiar with this pinball machine, and I have a better understanding of how to read the schematic.

Well done, Rolf!!!

1 week later
#73 5 months ago

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