(Topic ID: 230253)

Bally 6803 (Party Animal) all coils locked on

By cooke

5 years ago


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  • 21 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by cooke
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#1 5 years ago

I am working on a Bally 6803, Party Animal specifically. I replaced the original corroded MPU with one that I acquired from a friend. This new board was nice and clean and worked great for about four or five games until EVERY coil in the game locked on and blew the playfield fuse. Replacing the fuse just blows it immediately upon power up because the game locks on every coil. I've tried the board in another game and the same thing happens.

And when I say every coil, I mean, all of the playfield coils except for the flippers. Even the flipper relay locks on right away.

I've replaced the 74154 decoder with no change. I've swapped out the PIA's and CPU chip with no change. At this point I'm thinking either ALL THREE CA3081's are blown or EVERY driver transistor is blown. Either of these scenarios seem pretty unlikely, so I'm coming here for advice before I start ripping more chips from the board.

The schematic is pretty clear that there's nothing else in the circuit (it's identical to the earlier SS Bally design), but something is forcing all of these transistors to ground as soon as power is applied. if it's not the 3081's or the transistors themselves, what could it be?

Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Here's a link to the Strange Science manual/schematic since the Party Animal schematic isn't on the IPDB:
https://www.ipdb.org/files/2396/Bally_1986_Strange_Science_English_Operating_Manual.pdf

#5 5 years ago

Further to this, if I remove the transistor for any of the coils, the coil will not lock on. If I remove the CA3081 associated with the coil completely, the coil will still lock on immediately upon power up.

Totally lost. Anyone have any suggestions? The issue isn't the PIA because swapping them with different ones changes nothing. It's not the 74154 because the coils lock on even if it's removed. It's not the 3081 because the coils lock on even if they're removed. What else could this problem be? I figure it's a dead short somewhere on the board because the coils lock on immediately with power, whereas a data issue would presumably wait for the board to boot up, at least.

Testing shows that every driver transistor immediately shorts to solenoid ground upon power up. What would force the transistors to lock on without even the pre-driver 3081 being installed? The transistors that I've removed from the board all test good in diode test. I've even replaced a couple with no change.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. The schematic is posted above.

#10 5 years ago

Using a logic probe, I've discovered that there is zero activity of any kind at the base of the transistors after I've removed the 3081's. The collector and emitter are both low held low.

Still digging...

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from pinballplusMN:

Perhaps the ics could still be bad. I would replace the 74154.maybe its open and removing it makes no difference?

Thanks for your message. I have replaced the 74154. Twice.

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

I would want to check operation without removing any ICs...because I would be comparing the problem symptoms to how the game is supposed to work.

When the base of the NPN transistor is grounded (0 volts) and no base current, Ib flows, no current flows from the emitter to the collector and the transistor is therefore switched “OFF”. If the base is forward biased by more than 0.7 volts, a current will flow from the emitter to the collector and the transistor is said to be switched “ON”.

If the collector is low, then the transistor is turned on. The collector should be sitting at coil supply voltage (+43VDC) until it is turned on. If all the all the coils are pegged on - either every single one of those transistors is blown, or you are not seeing the activity at the base of the transistors even though it is present.
[quoted image]

Thanks for this.

I have one 3081 removed, just for testing/comparing. The other two are still present. I've also removed a couple transistors, for comparing. Here's what I've discovered:
- The base of all transistors has no activity at all, regardless of whether the 3081 is present or not.
- The base of the transistor pads that I've removed is showing a high signal without the transistors present.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from cooke:

Thanks for this.
I have one 3081 removed, just for testing/comparing. The other two are still present. I've also removed a couple transistors, for comparing. Here's what I've discovered:
- The base of all transistors has no activity at all, regardless of whether the 3081 is present or not.
- The base of the transistor pads that I've removed is showing a high signal without the transistors present.

Further to this, the base of the transistors is actually hovering around 1.5v and is about 2v at the anode of the diode for each. This occurs whether the 3081's are on the board or not. Where the hell can they all be getting a signal from? I've replaced a few transistors with no change at all.

With the solenoid ground connector removed, I am able to see solenoid supply voltage at the collectors of the transistors. As soon as ground is added, the transistors all lock on immediately.

This one is literally keeping me up at night. I've memorized the damn schematic at this point. I hate to give up, but there has to be a reasonable explanation.

The major problem is that this is the 2nd board I've put into the game. When I first saw this machine, the MPU was not booting (it was badly corroded). I popped in another board and the game booted right up, but I realized that the playfield fuse was blown. Seeing no issues with the playfield coils, I replaced the fuse and all was well for several games before the coils locked on and things became a problem again. So now I'm petrified that even if I were to get another used board or even a Swemmer repro, I'm going to just blow that board up as well.

As a seasoned veteran of pinball repair (I've repaired hundreds of games for myself and dozens of other people for over 15 years), I'm not content to let this one win. But it sure is getting the best of me at this point. Any suggestions on where to go from here would be greatly appreciated.

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Sorry, I had to go back to the PinWiki since I no longer own any 6803. Here's how the tail end of the driving circuits work in this series. You must have a functioning CA3081 installed or it will not work correctly
The decoder pulls the commanded signal (M0 - M14) to ground
The ground passes through a 1.2K resistor on it's way to the base of a CA3081 integrated transistor array (U19 and U20), turning the transistor off
With the CA3081 transistor turned off, power is then routed to the base of the TIP-102 (SE9302 Bally part number) turning it on and allowing coil power to conduct to ground and the coil to pull in or the flasher to turn on
So first, check those CA3081 guys out with the procedure below and reinstall if good.
Set a DMM to diode check (the symbol looks like this -|<- )
Red probe on pin 15 of the IC
Black on pins 1, 2, 4, 7, 9, 12 and 14 should read about .250
Black on pins 3, 6, 8, 10, 11, 13 and 16 should read about 1.800
Black on pin 5 will read shorted
Readings outside of these values indicate that the transistor array has failed

THANK YOU for this. It was extremely helpful. It turns out that, as you discovered, removing a 3081 actually turns on all of the transistors associated with that chip, which, in turn, locks on the coils. After socketing and installing three new 3081's, I now have the game booting and no coils are locking on. It also turns out that you can't actually test the 3081's out of circuit... they have to be on the board for proper testing. i'm extremely grateful for the assistance thus far.

Now, can you suggest what would cause ALL THREE 3081's to die simultaneously? I've tested the ones I pulled and they are all pooched. I'm really hesitant to start playing the game until I figure out what caused this in the first place. But at least I'm one step in the right direction. Thank you again!

#21 5 years ago

After some more inspection, I found that the power supply had one of its screws and plastic spacers missing and was subject to vibrations of the machine. I believe that the back of the power supply made contact with the ground plane and may have caused this issue. I reflowed some suspect connector solder joints on the power supply and replaced the spacer and made sure the power supply is tight and secure. I honestly don't know if these problems were the cause of the bigger issue, but I've played 20 games now and the machine seems to be playing like a champ.

Thanks again, very much, for the help and support.

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