(Topic ID: 235022)

Bally 6803 Club - All Welcome

By gweempose

5 years ago


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#11 5 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

First issue: Ones digit in all 4 displays is out. I find sparse 6803 repair documentation in the usual places. Is the troubleshooting for the displays similar to that of the earlier Ballys?

Try here:
http://stevekulpa.net/pinball/bally_disp6r.htm

You can get a .pdf copy of the manual here: https://www.ipdb.org/files/761/Bally_1985_Eight_Ball_Champ_Manual.pdf

I would refer you to a place that would sell an original copy of the manual, but it seems that everyone who has one wants to keep it.

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

There are already some individual 6803 clubs, but most of them don't get a lot of activity, so I figured I'd start one that encompasses all 6803 games. This club is for the discussion of any 6803 game, and you do not have to be an owner to participate. As a whole, the 6803s don't seem to get a lot of respect, especially when compared to the System 11s, but there are definitely some fun and underrated 6803 games. Sure, some of them are cheesy as hell, but that only adds to their charm.
I recently picked up a nice Eight Ball Champ, and I really like it. The single level playfield, lack of ramps, and no multiball is a nice throwback to earlier games, and it's fun and challenging to shoot.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Your EBC looks really great! Mine apparently has had a little bit rougher life and we are going through some growing pains together.

I agree that it is a really fun game for what it is: single ball, single level, shooter. It makes you pretty much earn every drop. I don't get many hits from bouncing off the slingshots, but I do occasionally get double-hits from the top flipper (the old 1-ball 7-ball combo if you will).

#16 5 years ago

Flipper buttons definitely spark. I never noticed the other switches spark, but they probably do. Not as big a spark as the flippers, for sure.

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from SkyKing2301:

Good timing, as I'm currently in the (slow) process of refurbishing a Black Belt. This thing was disgustingly dirty and had a handful of problems when I got it. Slowly but surely making progress when I have the time, but I'll hit you guys up when I inevitably run into issues.
Btw, I HATE these bulb sockets. No apparent easy way to get to the bulbs (since the sockets' common wire is tight to the playfield and the solder would get broken off it I backed out the screws), so I've had to just bend each socket arm back (very tight access in some places). Then, the sockets themselves are ridiculously tight, hard to get the old bulbs out and new bulbs in. My fingers were practically blistered by the end of the night after replacing all the bulbs under the playfield.

Ya, bending back the lamps is sometimes the best way. Several of the hex screw heads were soldered to the mounts on my machine. I figure if I break the mount, I have the same amount of solder work either way. Not the best quality workmanship, which was a real problem in most US industries back in the 80's...

1 week later
#28 5 years ago
Quoted from Brettv:

Just got my second 6803 a hardbody and I love it. If u get past the back glass so fun but also fast. Also have a Party Animal and there is a Special Forces I am looking at (really liked it when I tried it). Have heard bad things about the 6803 system but so far no problems for me (knock on wood). The Special Force is a little more then it should be but looks great, almost bought but guy talked me out of it by saying how much of a hassle they can be. So i guess my question is do they just get a bad rap or can i have more problems with them then others (my 2 80s williams actually drive me nuts, blown fuses all the time). I mean they are priced great and just as much fun I think.
[quoted image][quoted image]

I don't have much experience, but it seems to me that the 6803 board is pretty decent. It is fairly robust and supports lots of flashers and switches so that games can be fairly complex but not confusing. I had to repair my control board once from something that happened with a prior owner and once that I messed up. There are no hard to find parts on the board (although replacement control boards are pretty much not available now). There is plenty of room to make repairs on the board. There are some mods available. I highly recommend Pinitech's 6118 NVRAM to replace the battery (simple plug and play replacement and boom, no battery required), and there are several companies that offer LED displays that drive just fine from the control board without using high voltage from the power module. The wonkiness of my Eight Ball Champ is more in the flippers, saucer assembly, and cheap MDF cabinet construction than it is the 6803 system. The flippers are actually way better than many 80's era linear flippers, but parts are a little bit unique. My game plays just fine and is fun.

If Bally would have survived and evolved into ramp/multiball machines, I think the 6803 would be more common and probably a bit more revered. It seems like there is plenty of bandwidth on the board to do more stuff and add modules. I think they probably would have been able to upgrade/improve the squawk and talk (and ditch the cheap squeak system) and keep up with new display technology for quite a while. Adding alphanumeric displays to new games seemed fairly simple, for example.

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

Some issues with cost cutting and cheap construction.
My biggest issue (so far)is the lack of repair documentation available.

I find that between my game manual and http://www.pinrepair.com/6803/ , there isn't much left to the imagination.

#50 5 years ago
Quoted from alveolus:

When I first fired up the machine I was getting all sorts of stuck switch errors and had to cut off several capacitors. What is the consensus on replacing these?
So far I haven’t noticed any issues.

In my experience, rollovers definitely need caps to register reliably and I would bet other momentary switches (like the "paddle" switches behind drop targets) probably work better with good caps in place. I had a rollover switch with a bad cap and the game would set a new high score if you just left the machine alone long enough. After cutting out the cap, it registered maybe 80% of quick rollovers but resolved the ghost scoring issue (and would test out OK in the stuck switch test). With a new cap installed, it works again with higher reliability.

1 year later
#239 3 years ago

I have posted this elsewhere, but if you find yourself in a jam, call Clive at the Coin Op Cauldron. I do my own repairs if there are only 1 or 2 things wrong with my 6803, but he got me out of a pickle where absolutely nothing worked. 6803 control boards that are not filled with corrosion and/or non-operational are hard to find.

#246 3 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

I am testing a Party Animal... in switch test mode... and as I test the various switches, often the game is detecting another switch along with the one I am testing.
It always seems to be another switch in the same ROW as the one I am testing.
It doesn't always happen and it is not consistent. The only consistency is that the phantom switch is somewhere on the same ROW in the matrix.
This is happening on multiple rows.
Examples:
Press Right Outlane and Top Left Saucer sometimes triggers.
Press Right Return and Right Sling or Pigout U sometimes triggers.
Press Right Sling and Pigout U or Tune 2 Middle sometimes triggers.
Press Left Sling and Pigout T sometimes triggers.
Press Toad and Right Outlane sometimes triggers.
Press Rebound and sometimes Right Outlane triggers.
Since it's all over the place, it leads me to think that it's not just one diode. Is there something bigger to look at when this type of situation happens?

I assume PA has the same capacitor-on-switch setup as other 6803 games. If they are still original, it is probably time to swap them out for new. Bad caps made my 6803 machine do some pretty goofy stuff. Had to clear my high score after first ball once...

#254 3 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

I'm hoping someone can help me out here.
It's the Switch Matrix on a Party Animal.
I posted earlier about how it's behaving oddly. Pressing a switch will sometimes (not always) trigger another switch (or two or three) in the same ROW.
At first, I thought it would be the capacitors that are on some of the switches. They get old... they dry out.
Correct me if I am wrong, but those capacitors are there so when a switch is VERY QUICKLY pressed, that the CPU will still have time to detect that switch. Which means that removing those caps (cutting one leg) should allow the Switch Matrix to continue to function while losing some sensitivity on the switches with caps.
I have cut a leg on all switches with caps. However, my phantom switches are still occurring all over. Which means it has to be bad diodes, right? But my problem is, for example, I press the Left Outlane switch and it sometimes triggers the Mushroom switch. So I replace the diode on BOTH of those switches... and... the problem persists. Ugh!
Is there more to the story of this 6803 switch matrix? Is there another place I should be looking?
My game is triggering phantom switches all over the place. It seems like its not "a couple bad diodes".
Anyone been down this road before and know how to resolve this issue?
Thanks!

I have no help for you other than confirming that if you simply disconnect the caps on the switches that it should still test OK for a "slow" hit. The cap just seems to make the signal longer so the control board can keep pace with a quick hit.

The matrix design kinda dumbfounds me and I can't find a wiring diagram for free online, but if you haven't read this: http://www.pinrepair.com/6803/ it might help.

#261 3 years ago

That braided bare wire should probably tie into the ground wire matrix that runs throughout your cabinet. I think it is more of a safety thing to keep you from getting zapped if something goes awry than it is for machine functionality, but I might be wrong.

#265 3 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

I was doing battery replacement on my Party Animal... and it lost all it's settings.
However, when I scroll through the adjustments, the settings are all over the place like they were all scrambled with garbage data.
Is there a way to "reset to factory default settings" ?

It is good that you replaced the battery. After they die, they tend to cause all sorts of issues. I went with pinitech's NVRAM chip and ditched the battery forever. I highly recommend the switch. Easy to do and no worries that your battery will contribute to corrosion or leak acid all over your control board.

#268 3 years ago
Quoted from Impzilla:

My Special Force game has damaged playfield hangers that are poorly welded back together. No idea how both are so damaged but they allow the playfield to move around when playing as they are so weak.
I looked at my regular parts places and do not see any replacements.
Anyone have a source or part number I can use to look around?
Generic pic for reference.
Thanks.
[quoted image]

On the playfield parts list for my Eight Ball Champ, those are listed as "Playfield Support" p/n 0360-0114-00XF. A google search doesn't get me anywhere. That is usually when I call Steve at Pinball Resource. He doesn't use Bally part numbers, so just have the description ready.

1 week later
#276 3 years ago
Quoted from sixtyfourbits:

Hey everyone!
my Escape From the Lost World has started to have a bit of a sound problem. Sometimes its volume will rise and fall without the volume pot being touched. It seems that after a bit of an initial warm up the issue goes away, but I would still like to fix it. Does anyone have any ideas where I should start? I was thinking the volume pot might be bad, or a poor connection at the sound board, or maybe the speaker is bad. The pin is at my sisters house which is 40 minutes away, so I'd like to research it a bit before driving out to look at it.
Thanks!

I don't know if anybody else feels this way, but I would try a squirt of electrical contact cleaner on the pot when the machine is off and adjust the pot on the sound board up and down before letting it dry (or blowing it dry with canned air). My Squawk and Talk had some "dead spots" in the volume pot that cleaned right up and life is good now. Could also be the main volume pot if both sound effects and speech are affected.

#278 3 years ago

On my machine, the squawk (sound effects) and talk can be balanced by adjusting the pot on the sound board. The sound effects are only controlled by the pot on the coin door and the relative speech volume is controlled by the pot on the sound board.

In other words, if all sounds die together then it is probably the pot on the coin door. Same recommendation applies before swapping out parts. A little spray of contact cleaner has saved my bacon more than once.

2 weeks later
#282 3 years ago
Quoted from RONR11:

Anybody else have any issues with 6800 Bumpers vibrating or double pulsing?

Start by cleaning/adjusting the switches. I am not an expert at the 6803 board, but my experience is that the control board only scores the "hits" and the bumpers are reacting to the switch being closed. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong. I used to get phantom scores without bumpers being activated, so I am taking an educated guess...

4 months later
#343 3 years ago
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:

Just fixing up a Party Animal and the left display is obviously out-gassing but it seems to be brighter when showing digits than when showing text. Is there a reason for that do you think? Maybe I could get a bit more life out of it somehow...
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Can you swap the leads and see if the dimming flips? If it does, then my best guess is that the displays aren't getting enough juice.

#345 3 years ago
Quoted from Mik-ReadingUK:

Sorry, should have mentioned that I had tried swapping the plugs - It's definitely the board.

That is above my paygrade to troubleshoot 14-digit displays.

This has been a similar problem before that was fixed by basically a board re-build:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally6803-party-animals-strange-display-issue-help

It that is hard to stomach, there are a couple of options in the USA. Coin-op Cauldron might re-work the board but won't replace any of the plasma. Might be a short-term fix if the plasma is going bad. I would e-mail first to make sure the repair is plausible.

Second option is replacing both with new LED displays. There are a couple of companies that make them. I can't vouch personally for either, but I like my LED displays I got from Pinitech (which doesn't offer the alphanumeric 14 digit displays). Not a cheap option, though.

#347 3 years ago

I mainly justified the LED displays when I was having problems with the HV part of my power board. I don't know for sure if the jury is still out on if they tax the control board enough to matter, but I am sure you know that the 6803 control boards have been pretty hard to find.

#348 3 years ago

I imagine this has been asked, but no recent discussion could I find...

How much to you think a 6803 control board, refurbished and with battery replaced by NVRAM is worth? I see stores on-line that advertise $350US but they haven't seemed to have stock for years now.

This is most likely a trivial question because I am not looking to sell mine, but I occasionally run into an old Bally machine that is not in great shape but I can harvest it for parts and at least do a little work if needed as long as it hasn't corroded all to heck.

1 week later
#356 3 years ago
Quoted from Jaworski5:

Unknowingly fell into this 6803 hole after a recent Motordome purchase! Thought I was ready to step up from my EMs? Drawn in by all the lights, ramps and a couldn’t pass up deal.
In ok shape, but 2 obvious issues:
1: Nothing happening on either display. (Replaced proper fuses)
2: upper left flipper dead. Wiring appears good. Coil resistance was also good.
Any ideas how to proceed? Everything else works/ plays well. I have a manual.
My passion overwhelms my knowledge!
Thanks, Jeremy

Nada on displays is most likely a problem on the high voltage section of your power supply. First evaluate your experience and comfort level with high voltage. If you are good, then test to see if you have about 180V from TP2 to ground. If no, move to TP3 and check that for 230V. Best case scenario is nothing on TP2 and ~230V on TP3. In that case, unplug machine and spray some contact cleaner in your HV pot and articulate the switch. Not the end of the world if neither test point has voltage, but it requires some soldering and a "cap job" that is outlined here: http://www.pinrepair.com/6803/ You might also have a bit of luck by re-flowing the solder on your power board before replacing components. Seems like the electrolytic capacitors are prone to failure after 30 years or so. Get a nice Hakko or equivalent if you don't already have one.

I suppose that it could be possible that the 43VDC is related, but since some of your flippers work, it is probably a local problem.

#358 3 years ago

For your upper flipper, I think your machine has two switches on the flipper button. Could be as easy as cleaning and adjusting the switch. If your left lower flipper works, you at least have a good circuit to the switch. Not much else if you have good wiring connection and coils...

1 week later
#360 3 years ago
Quoted from Jahkub:

Hey y'all, I'm looking for a couple plastics for Eight Ball Champ and thought this to be the best place to ask. I'm lacking the upper left "i" plastic and the lower right "t" plastic. If any of you happen to have either of those that you'd let go then please let me know! Thanks.

I am not willing to set my plastics free, but I could send you a high-res scan of mine if you want to make your own repro.

#362 3 years ago

I should consider copyright laws. Even though I would not be looking for payment and the copyright owner isn't making reproductions, I want to steer clear. I don't want to put myself or this forum in danger if the copyright owner gets upset. When I was researching the methods to repro, the companies who amalgamated the art were asked to cease.

1 week later
#384 3 years ago
Quoted from lincolnv:

Thanks for the reply, Quench. Can i replace it with a disc capacitor .047 100v?

The voltage is fine (treat 50V as minimum), but almost 5x capacitance might not fare well in the integrated circuit. +/- 20% is fine, but I would try to get a smaller axial instead of trying something that holds way more juice than the original. The .047 might have unintended consequences and may not, but we are talking about a common $1.00 part.

1 week later
#400 3 years ago

My EBC had problems with quick hits on the paddles behind drop downs and rollovers until I replaced the caps. Drop downs stay down, so they always scored. I also had a cap that would cause a rollover to randomly score 30 times, so I can see why someone might decide to just cut them out. No score on occasion is better than a million unearned points.

#402 3 years ago
Quoted from Goonie:

Is it though? I'm not that good of a player, so I will take the million! LOL
...leaves Pinside to go put 2 caps on all switches now.

Like most of us here, you will have a game where you absolutely play out of your mind, get the machine's high score, and curse that ball that went RDTM. For me, it is a close contest between plumbing projects and pinball games for the number of 4-letter words (but for far different reasons).

#406 3 years ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Sanity check: you put your initials in on D&D when you get a high score but it never displays the high scores or initials
?

The manual for D&D said it periodically resets the high score. I don't know if that is just the "free games" high score or all-time.

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