(Topic ID: 309267)

Balls Piling up at trough on The Addams Family

By Thestrangebrewer

2 years ago


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  • 20 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Jmckune
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    TAF transistors (resized).jpg
    25C02E83-B8BA-4CFF-A535-37CCA9F47AB2 (resized).jpeg
    TAF J120 (resized).jpg
    TAF bridge (resized).jpg
    Ball trough (resized).jpg
    #1 2 years ago

    Aloha,

    I run a small brewpub on Kauai and have the only public machines on the island. Being in the middle of the pacific ocean repair tech's aren't very readily available, so I do most of the repair work myself. If anyone can help me with the following issues, I'd appreciate it...I'll buy you some beers when you make it out here...

    The problem I'm having is:

    The balls pile up at the entrance to the ball trough and don't move forward from there. All 4 trough switches are working (they show up on the matrix when I do switch tests).

    It seems the problem is with the solenoids.

    Beginning with #4, Ball Release. It doesn't operate when I run the test.
    #5, Out Hole
    #6, Thing Magnet also don't run during the solenoid tests.
    Oddly enough, #7, Thing Kick out works,
    #8 Lockup Kick out does not work.

    Everything else seems to be working fine.

    Any input would be appreciated.
    Thank you

    Ball trough (resized).jpgBall trough (resized).jpg
    #2 2 years ago

    Easy check first? See if the balls are magnetized before proceeding.

    I've seen them stuck in many places because they need to be un-magnetized (or replaced).

    #3 2 years ago

    Check fuse F105 on the driver board. Sounds like it’s blown.

    #4 2 years ago

    I appreciate the input guys, thank you. I double checked all the fuses including 105, and they're good. Some solenoids don't have diodes, but the ones that do, all are good... (I confirmed with a Multimeter), and the balls aren't magnetized. I'm not seeing any disconnected wires under the playfield, however, On J120, the yellow wire was disconnected. I have it back in place now, and still no dice. I also noticed (is it the bridge rectifier?) is loose. Could that cause the problem?

    TAF J120 (resized).jpgTAF J120 (resized).jpgTAF bridge (resized).jpgTAF bridge (resized).jpg
    #5 2 years ago
    Quoted from Thestrangebrewer:

    Balls piling up at trough on The Addams Family.

    Try standing a bit further away from the machine.

    #6 2 years ago
    Quoted from Thestrangebrewer:

    Could that cause the problem?

    It could possibly lead to a game reset problem due overheating, but it's not likely related to this problem. Wipe off the old thermal paste first with alcohol, add a pea-sized dab of thermal compound (I'm partial to ceramique paste) on the bridge rectifier, and stick the heat sink back onto the bridge.

    It's probably time to remove the apron and have a look at coil and mechanism itself.

    If you haven't removed an apron before, just take out the two screws on the butt of the apron, then push it forward to slip the front side off the hook brackets on the playfield.

    After the apron has been removed:
    1) Make sure the wires haven't broken off the coil
    2) Make sure the spring hasn't come off the mech
    3) Make sure the ball kicker mech moves smoothly. Maybe also take the opportunity to swap out the coil sleeve while you have the apron off.

    #7 2 years ago

    Other than looking for loose wires and binding, you need to check voltages at the non-working coils.

    https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Coil_Fails_to_Work

    #8 2 years ago
    Quoted from Thestrangebrewer:

    It seems the problem is with the solenoids.
    Beginning with #4, Ball Release. It doesn't operate when I run the test.
    #5, Out Hole
    #6, Thing Magnet also don't run during the solenoid tests.
    Oddly enough, #7, Thing Kick out works,
    #8 Lockup Kick out does not work.

    Check the daisy chain wiring between the solenoids on the 1-8 fuse.

    WPC fuses control 8 solenoids each - so 8 solenoids are wired together. If a few aren’t working, likely that one of the wires that links the coils together is broken off.

    In this case, Fuse F105 controls all these 8 solenoids. Here’s the table with the solenoids and the plugs and the wire colours.

    rd
    25C02E83-B8BA-4CFF-A535-37CCA9F47AB2 (resized).jpeg25C02E83-B8BA-4CFF-A535-37CCA9F47AB2 (resized).jpeg

    1 week later
    #9 2 years ago

    Thanks for the input rotordave , phishrace , ForceFlow

    With the help of a friend, we discovered that J130 on the power Driver Board only has power to a few of the pins. The pins that have power are 1, 2, and 8.
    The pins that don't have power (the rest of them) are causing Solenoids 4,5,6, and 8 not to work.

    I found this chart referring to the transistors associated with J130. I figure we'll start with checking those transistors. Do you have any other technical input on what we should be looking for?
    Thanks again

    TAF transistors (resized).jpgTAF transistors (resized).jpg
    #10 2 years ago
    Quoted from Thestrangebrewer:

    Do you have any other technical input on what we should be looking for?

    Across or through board continuity of the traces involved.

    LTG : )

    #11 2 years ago

    Thanks for the help LTG

    When checking for power at J130, only some of the pins had power. We checked the output resitsance of the driver transistors.

    Stage 3 tip 36C was >2M
    Stage 2 tip 102 was >2M
    Stage 1 2n5401 was about 300K. Does that sound correct?

    4 weeks later
    #12 2 years ago

    Did you resolve this? I am having the exact same issue, with the same missing power to those same pins.

    4,5,6 & 8 are out for me too.

    Can't be a coincidence that it is displaying the same symptoms.

    #13 2 years ago

    Black_Knight

    I'm still looking for help on the issue. Please let me know if you figure anything out.

    #14 2 years ago

    When testing for power at the connector you don’t have the coin door open do you?

    #15 2 years ago

    The power is applied to one side of EVERY coil and the transistors take the OTHER side of the coil to ground to activate the coil as required.

    A quick test involves a cliplead with one side attached to ground and the other end briefly touched to each transistor 'flag' - the solenoid should fire.

    Make sure you have ~70VDC on one side of EVERY coil. You could have a break in that daisy chain of wiring (ensure coin door is closed or interlock switch is pulled OUT when testing for coil voltages).

    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from pins4u:

    The power is applied to one side of EVERY coil and the transistors take the OTHER side of the coil to ground to activate the coil as required.
    A quick test involves a cliplead with one side attached to ground and the other end briefly touched to each transistor 'flag' - the solenoid should fire.
    Make sure you have ~70VDC on one side of EVERY coil. You could have a break in that daisy chain of wiring (ensure coin door is closed or interlock switch is pulled OUT when testing for coil voltages).

    Addams family shipped with only a memory protect switch and was built prior to the introduction of the high power cutoff switch. That’s technically not quite how coils work either, there will be voltage on all lugs of a good coil. The transistor does complete the path to ground but there is high voltage present at all times on a good coil. The voltage actually drops when a coil fires and then rises when the coil is done firing.

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from Jmckune:

    Addams family shipped with only a memory protect switch and was built prior to the introduction of the high power cutoff switch. That’s technically not quite how coils work either, there will be voltage on all lugs of a good coil. The transistor does complete the path to ground but there is high voltage present at all times on a good coil. The voltage actually drops when a coil fires and then rises when the coil is done firing.

    Sure, but I don't think the OP is understanding how the coils are driven so if he measures for a voltage on all coils he might find some have no voltage and therefore locate a break in the daisy chain. The formalities of the voltage being applied to one side won't affect his fault finding.

    #18 2 years ago
    Quoted from pins4u:

    The voltage being applied to one side won't affect his fault finding.

    Pretty sure you're right, since Pinsiders don't seem to have a problem finding fault in anything posted here.

    #19 2 years ago
    Quoted from Jmckune:

    Addams family shipped with only a memory protect switch and was built prior to the introduction of the high power cutoff switch.

    In case anybody has an Addams Gold, it has the high power interlock switch too.

    LTG : )

    #20 2 years ago
    Quoted from pins4u:

    Sure, but I don't think the OP is understanding how the coils are driven so if he measures for a voltage on all coils he might find some have no voltage and therefore locate a break in the daisy chain. The formalities of the voltage being applied to one side won't affect his fault finding.

    That would be correct if there was no voltage on either of the lugs. If he tested a coil that had voltage on one side but not the other, he may assume the coil was good per your original description of testing which would not be the case. No voltage either side would indicate either a blown fuse or a broken wire. No voltage on only one side would indicate a bad coil.

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