Ball energy?


By Iaintnobodydork

3 months ago


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  • 17 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 months ago by DanQverymuch
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    #1 3 months ago

    I was wondering if a ball being launched by a coil plunger has more energy if the plunger is in contact with the ball before it fires or does having a gap between the 2 give it greater energy?

    #2 3 months ago

    If you want the strongest plunge from a coil plunger, you would want the ball to be as far back as possible (no gaps). On some games that have a manual and an autoplunger, you may want to consider pulling the manual plunger back a bit so that the ball is as close to the autoplunger as possible.

    #3 3 months ago

    I'm no expert i physics, but I did stay at Holiday Inn Select last night. Anyways breaking it down simply one method basically pushes the ball while the other strikes it. I would assume there would be a small amount of friction when the ball rest against the plunger when "pushing", so that may impact things. How ever when there is a gap, you lose that amount of energy until the ball is hit. Also I would assume there is a los of energy if the plunger is not EXACTLY centered on the ball.

    #4 3 months ago

    It would depend on a number of factors. In many cases, its already a fight for a coil to get a plunger moving. The further out from magnetic center it is, the harder it is to get it moving. Add the weight of the ball and you slow the process down even further.

    If, instead, you allow the plunger to begin moving, and then let the energy be transferred kinetically, near end of travel, it probably has a better chance at a strong hit. A nylon tip striking the ball dead center, seems to have a better effect than the fork style auto plungers used to straddle a manual ball shooter plunger.

    #5 3 months ago

    Think of Tee Ball, it's obvious you would hit a ball farther by swinging at it than by putting the bat right up to the ball and then starting the same swing. Same principle. It's all about the impulse.

    #6 3 months ago

    I may be over thinking this but in what instance is the actual coil plunger coming into contact with the ball? With the exception of memory drops almost all plungers drive another mechanism that interact with the ball or intended target.

    #7 3 months ago

    VUKs are direct.

    Regardless, you want the plunger or mech to strike the ball when it is at maximum velocity. This is probably later in the stroke than at the very beginning.

    #8 3 months ago
    Quoted from DanQverymuch:

    Think of Tee Ball, it's obvious you would hit a ball farther by swinging at it than by putting the bat right up to the ball and then starting the same swing. Same principle. It's all about the impulse.

    Not really. More torque in a coil than you have in your arms at rest.

    Better (and pinball) analogy is a flipper. Ball goes pretty well from resting on a flipper!

    #9 3 months ago
    Quoted from Thrillhouse:

    I may be over thinking this but in what instance is the actual coil plunger coming into contact with the ball?

    Kickbacks are direct contact, like f14’s or GoT

    I think that the difference would be minimal comparing direct contact vs a gap. It would take a bunch of math to figure this out. Momentum, kinetic energy, impact force, friction to many variables to just make a guess. The best way would be to build a test rig and see the difference visually rather then actually trying to figure it out on paper.

    #10 3 months ago

    Dang, thought this was going to be a thread about plasma and lightning

    #11 3 months ago

    Lots of interesting thoughts. I think I will start by closing the gap and maybe by having the plunger closer to the coil's center it will give more push.

    #12 3 months ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    Kickbacks are direct contact, like f14’s or GoT
    I think that the difference would be minimal comparing direct contact vs a gap. It would take a bunch of math to figure this out. Momentum, kinetic energy, impact force, friction to many variables to just make a guess. The best way would be to build a test rig and see the difference visually rather then actually trying to figure it out on paper.

    So minimal you'd probably have to come up with a new unit of measure to even show a difference. Seriously, we are probably giving it more thought than a game designer would...

    1 week later
    #13 89 days ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    Not really. More torque in a coil than you have in your arms at rest.
    Better (and pinball) analogy is a flipper. Ball goes pretty well from resting on a flipper!

    Yes really. The difference in torque you speak of is irrelevant. Of course my example of batting a tee ball is not to scale with a pin mech. And a flipper ("bat"!) is leveraged off the solenoid, not a direct stroke. But it would still collide with the ball with more resultant speed than from a ball at rest on the flipper.

    Back to the one-dimensional example of an auto-plunger. Assume for simplicity the solenoid plunger has the same mass as the ball. If the ball is not resting on the plunger, the coil transfers its energy accelerating just the plunger over its travel, and all that energy will be transferred to the ball when the plunger collides with the ball (all, because we stipulated them having the same mass). However, if the ball is resting on the plunger, then the coil's energy is used accelerating the plunger and the ball together, twice the mass as before, and so the ball's final momentum will only be half what it was in the first scenario (again, since they have equal masses). This is of course ignoring the return spring's contribution, and the more the plunger weighs compared to the ball the less of a difference it will make, but it's still a difference.

    The more off-center the plunger hits the ball, the more of that energy results in spin, or even knocking the ball sideways, instead of the desired one-dimensional acceleration.

    #14 86 days ago

    Okay so I have to ask, as a ball launches from the shooter lane it rises/ramps up because of the bevel design. Should the plunger contact the center of the ball at rest or should you figure out the middle of the average rise of the ball?

    #15 86 days ago

    Ball lightning?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning

    image (resized).jpeg

    image (resized).png

    #16 86 days ago

    I like ball lightning. Never seen one.

    I saw some intense tornadoes in my time, so far.

    image (resized).jpeg

    #17 82 days ago
    Quoted from Iaintnobodydork:

    Okay so I have to ask, as a ball launches from the shooter lane it rises/ramps up because of the bevel design. Should the plunger contact the center of the ball at rest or should you figure out the middle of the average rise of the ball?

    Center, so the energy all gets used accelerating the ball and none is used spinning it.

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