(Topic ID: 265210)

Bad Seller - Retaliatory Negative Feedback - Deerlakes6


By Cherga

62 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 32 posts
  • 17 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 61 days ago by pinmike
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 62 days ago

    I’ve never posted anything about another Pinsider but feel it’s necessary in this case. I purchased a machine from Deerlakes6 that was not as described and after informing him of such, he stopped responding, so I posted negative feedback about the transaction and he felt the need to post negative feedback in retaliation. I’m an honest buyer and seller and believe that if there is someone buying or selling machines that may not be, then the community should know about it and further, if the seller stops responding and doesn’t offer anything to make it right, there is nothing wrong with posting negative feedback about the transaction. My feedback and interaction with fellow Pinsiders speaks for itself.

    We’ve all bought machines that weren’t up to our expectations, however I’ve never bought a machine that the seller outright lied about as having “no issues”. Below is the feedback I left for Deerlakes6 which was an honest representation of what occurred.

    “ Deerlakes6 contacted me about an ad I had for a machine I wanted. His exact response to my ad was "...I have a nice Genesis with no issues...". He quickly wanted to move away from Pinside messaging to discuss on the phone where he told me there was nothing wrong with the machine and that he had no room for it anymore. His location was nearly 4 hours away and I wasn't keen on driving that distance so he agreed to meet me half way. I told him we had a deal via text if he could assure me it was 100% working. Instead of texting back, he called and assured me it was 100% working on the phone (I should have seen the red flag). We met and completed the deal. After setting the machine up at home I was met with several functional issues, none of which could have occurred during transport (cut and exposed wires, bad transistors, seized motor). I texted him about it to which he replied... it worked when he left and didn't know what could have happened in transport and apologized if I thought he "jammed me up". I sent follow up messages with photos and requested some reimbursement for the parts and repairs needed to get the machine functional due to his dishonest representation of the machine having "no issues"... you guessed it, no response.

    I've made several "parking lot" transactions with Pinsiders and have never had an experience like this. Pinsiders beware! If you're dealing with Deerlakes6, be very careful and don't buy anything without going through it thoroughly and most certainly don't take him at his word because unlike physical condition that can be seen, functional issues cannot and you must play and inspect to ensure no issues. Lesson learned by me for sure!”

    His retaliatory feedback for me is below:

    “ He seems like a very nice guy when iij met him to give him a game..I sent him pics which he examined b4 I delivered the game..it worked perfectly when I brought it to him..now he is complaining that things don't work right on the machine..I don't know what he could have done in transportation..now he is giving me negative feedback which I believe
    is unnecessary..he has now been complaining about issues that are out of my control..don't think he is a bad person but in pinball something can always happen to a machine and he should know that..we have all had issues with machines and not always is it the seller's fault..next Time he is looking for something beware of what may happen if something isn't right when he gets home with it..I'm sure he won't do business with me either but oh well..I feel terrible his game isn't working correctly..but blaming me just isn't right..but that's what negative people do I guess”

    He references sending me pictures which I examined. That’s correct, on a machine that has no issues I’m expecting to see what’s wrong with it physically in pictures. I know I should have requested game play videos however I suppose I’m too trusting and have been lucky in all of my buying experiences until now. He then writes that the machine worked perfectly when he brought it to me and then went on to say he doesn’t know what “he” meaning me, could have done to it in transport. That’s just brazen disregard of the situation and me... he transported it too, yet, he felt the need to put it on me. Getting to the issues, I’ve transported dozens of machines and have never had a dual EOS switch have half of the switch completely disappear and the associated wires be cleanly cut and tucked up inside the drain hole under the playfield... maybe a gremlin or a malicious but talented mouse? I’ve also never had lamps that didn’t work after being replaced on a machine with “no issues”... and I’ve also never had a transistor blow in transport which was the resultant problem with the lamps. Finally, I’ve never had a machine with a motor that shows no physical damage stop working from being transported. I’m well aware things happen in transport but from my perspective the issues I’ve mentioned occurring from transporting the machine are very unlikely.

    He then goes on to warn Pinsiders about me if something isn’t right when I buy a machine and get it home. Again, my feedback speaks for itself and if you represent your machine honestly, there won’t be any complaints from me... and up until now, I haven’t had a single issue with anything I’ve bought or sold. He finishes by saying blaming him for the issues isn’t right, not sure who else would be to blame here, especially with the EOS issues. He then attacks my character by calling me a “negative person”. I’m not sure how he made that assessment as I’m about as far from negative as one can get however I suppose he needed to come up with something as to why I wasn’t happy with the transaction. If I buy a machine that “works perfectly with no issues” I expect a machine that works perfectly no issues. If that makes me a negative person, then I suppose he’s right.

    Looking for a moderators opinion on this as I’m not happy receiving unfounded retaliatory feedback.

    #2 62 days ago

    Well, that sucks. Hope you get the game whipped into shape in short order. I have bought many a machine, some on Ebay (long ago), some from trusted individuals of yesteryear, that had a problem or two. One was a (supposedly) working STTNG that had a bad CPU board (corrosion) that was the straw that broke the camel's back with one particular vendor. I have looked at it like this: anything that I can fix at a reasonable cost or effort I just let go of and don't buy from that person again or cautiously purchase. I am more concerned about large issues like playfield wear or damage or cabinet wear/damage. Yes it sucks when you get taken advantage of and yes it may warrant a complaint or two. But at the end of the day, if you can fix the issues and have a good working machine that's all that really matters in the long run.

    #3 62 days ago
    Quoted from Cherga:

    Looking for a moderators opinion on this as I’m not happy receiving unfounded retaliatory feedback.

    The best place to solicit those is https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/forum/moderator-feedback-cat

    #4 62 days ago

    ^ efff all that crap.....don’t buy from Deerlakes6 got it! Thanks

    #5 62 days ago

    Never buy a pinball machine you cannot plug in and play/test first. What was the sale price of said machine?

    #6 62 days ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    . But at the end of the day, if you can fix the issues and have a good working machine that's all that really matters in the long run.

    Sorry but No this is not all that matters in a deal like this.

    #7 62 days ago

    I had some dialogue with deer lake about a pin too.

    Glad it didn’t pan out. Sounds like a bad experience. Maybe he will chime in and state his side.

    #8 62 days ago

    Thanks, I’ll post there. Didn’t know that area existed.

    -1
    #9 62 days ago

    So , to be clear you didnt feel like driving down the whole way because it was an inconvenience to you , and you felt you wanted to trust the seller with a highly complex piece of electronics, wiring , motors, lights in a box that has "no Issues" on a 34 year old game ? Would you have bought a 34 year old car without driving it ? Would you have bought the car based on pictures and what the seller says? Of course not. Then you come on a public forum to sully his reputation, come on man. These where your actions that you arranged , and now you regret them. These are used games , and should be inspected in person ( which you could have done ). If you cannot inspect them in person, you are at risk of these common problems when buying sight unseen. Learn from your mistakes, don't blame others.

    #10 62 days ago
    Quoted from Brtlkat:

    Never buy a pinball machine you cannot plug in and play/test first. What was the sale price of said machine?

    Sale price was $1500 and for this title it’s on the high end of the spectrum.

    #11 62 days ago
    Quoted from Cherga:

    Sale price was $1500 and for this title it’s on the high end of the spectrum.

    Agreed. This would’ve guaranteed I played and inspected the hell out of it before taking it home. It better be pristine for $1500.

    #12 62 days ago
    Quoted from Cherga:

    Looking for a moderators opinion on this as I’m not happy receiving unfounded retaliatory feedback.

    Both of you from looking at your feedback appear to be good buyer/seller so maybe you both could withdraw your feedback and try to resolve it. Sounds simple I know but as I said I see nothing in either of your profiles that would lead me to believe either are dishonest or unreasonable people. Hope you can work it out.

    #13 62 days ago
    Quoted from modfather:

    you felt you wanted to trust the seller with a highly complex piece of electronics, wiring , motors, lights in a box that has "no Issues"

    When the seller tells him this, yes.

    Isn’t there supposed to be some level of trust in this hobby?

    I’ve done car side transactions without issue because I’ve trusted the sellers disclosures.

    #14 62 days ago
    Quoted from modfather:

    So , to be clear you didnt feel like driving down the whole way because it was an inconvenience to you , and you felt you wanted to trust the seller with a highly complex piece of electronics, wiring , motors, lights in a box that has "no Issues" on a 34 year old game ? Would you have bought a 34 year old car without driving it ? Would you have bought the car based on pictures and what the seller says? Of course not. Then you come on a public forum to sully his reputation, come on man. These where your actions that you arranged , and now you regret them. These are used games , and should be inspected in person ( which you could have done ). If you cannot inspect them in person, you are at risk of these common problems when buying sight unseen. Learn from your mistakes, don't blame others.

    Point taken and lesson learned however 50% of the machines I’ve acquired have been sight unseen and some have had issues which sellers made known. Had the issues been disclosed, that would have been fine but it certainly would have changed my offer price. I don’t regret my actions and I very well could have driven to see the game in person and chose not to and that’s on me but doesn’t change the fact that the game was misrepresented as having no issues.

    #15 62 days ago

    I don't know how you could do any transaction without some level of unquestioned trust even in person.

    #16 62 days ago
    Quoted from Cherga:

    I don’t regret my actions and I very well could have driven to see the game in person and chose not to and that’s on me but doesn’t change the fact that the game was misrepresented as having no issues.

    Absolutely. But it’s much easier to control what you do than try and change what others do.

    That’s why unless I’m close friends with the seller, I inspect the game top to bottom, play test, etc just to be safe. Some people might honestly think the game plays fine when it doesn’t. Some people just don’t know the game as well as others. I’ll buy without playing if the deal is good enough, but that’s rare.

    Your game had no lane change. Did the seller know the game was supposed to have lane change?

    The motor feature only runs during one specific part of the game (not easy to do), and attract mode. Did the seller know that this was even a feature in the game?

    Since this person is a stranger to you, you can’t assume they have any kind of in-depth knowledge about the game, so it’s best to simply make sure yourself.

    #17 62 days ago

    Draining the post and requesting Moderator review per yeoldpinplayer

    #18 62 days ago

    Not sure if he knew there was a lane change however the wires to the eos switch were conveniently hidden and tucked away. As for the motor, he said it worked perfectly before he left for the trip and after that, he stopped responding to me.

    #19 62 days ago

    Okay if he specifically said the motor worked and it couldn’t even be moved by hand when you got it, then he got away with a fast one. Lesson learned I hope.

    #20 62 days ago

    Absolutely, lesson learned.

    #21 62 days ago
    Quoted from modfather:

    So , to be clear you didnt feel like driving down the whole way because it was an inconvenience to you , and you felt you wanted to trust the seller with a highly complex piece of electronics, wiring , motors, lights in a box that has "no Issues" on a 34 year old game ? Would you have bought a 34 year old car without driving it ? Would you have bought the car based on pictures and what the seller says? Of course not. Then you come on a public forum to sully his reputation, come on man. These where your actions that you arranged , and now you regret them. These are used games , and should be inspected in person ( which you could have done ). If you cannot inspect them in person, you are at risk of these common problems when buying sight unseen. Learn from your mistakes, don't blame others.

    I’m on your side about the fact he should have tested it and done his do diligence, but that does not mean he shouldn’t blame someone for grossly misrepresenting their machine. I obviously don’t know the entire story, but cut wires and main features not working seems like obvious issues that should have been disclosed.

    #22 62 days ago

    Lane change I’m not faulting the guy for and it’s a $5 fix. The motor would severely piss me off though assuming that all needs rebuilt or replaced.

    #23 62 days ago

    Agreed and the motor is my big issue. If I can find one, it’s going to cost me.

    #24 62 days ago
    Quoted from RWH:

    maybe you both could withdraw your feedback and try to resolve it.

    Maybe they could both leave accurate feedback to help others decide how risky it is to deal with them in the future.

    -2
    #25 62 days ago

    Meh, first world problem. People are out there dropping like flies and we’re bickering over a toy.

    #26 62 days ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    Maybe they could both leave accurate feedback to help others decide how risky it is to deal with them in the future.

    Sure that would be the best outcome. I did not mean to imply they should not tell their stories, I was just suggesting how they could remedy the tit for tat on feedback.

    #27 62 days ago

    I’ve dealt with Cherga before, no issues.

    I will never agree to meet someone half way. I sold a game, met guy half way, he gets game home and it’s blowing a flasher fuse. I get an email and now he says I’m responsible for paying his repair bill. Not worth it. Come play the game, see that’s it’s working, take it, no warranty implied. Turned out it was just a bad transistor, likely from vibration of moving the game. I agreed to pay half the repair bill. I think if you are going to meet half way, take a video of the game from boot up to playing it with a pic of something that accurately shows the current date, like a date from a news web page. I usually do that for people traveling long distances so they can feel comfortable before making the trip, but on this one I met half way, I forgot to do it.

    #28 61 days ago

    At this point the seller should buy back the machine and return the $1500. If the machine had no issues the seller can just resell. Drive the 4 hours and return the machine!

    #29 61 days ago

    I've also had a transaction w/ Gary in a trade ~ AC/DC for Houdini. Everything went very smoothly as planned.

    I completely understand the need for full disclosure since these machines are quite expensive. The absolute one expectation when describing any machine should be complete integrity.

    I'm certain that the majority here on Pinside are upfront & honest in their description, but there is always that one. I've personally only had one relatively minor infraction here on Pinside, but I'll never deal w/ that person again.

    Though one carries himself w/ complete honestly, our expectations of another should be likewise. It's a shame that we need to be aware that there are individuals out there that follow through w/ intentions of deception.

    I have a life rule that I follow ~ If you can't be trusted, then the hell w/ ya!

    Hang in there Gary, you didn't deserve this!

    #30 61 days ago

    I don't know either of these guys but typically if both buyer & seller try they can work things out without it getting nasty. Sadly sometimes two people just can't get that done.

    If machine had issues that couldn't have happened during transport in my eyes the seller should "make things right" with the buyer. If issues were something that might have happened in transit then it is 100% on the buyer.

    Sadly sometimes just the "tone" of an email can send things in the wrong direction when stuff like this happens. If both of you guys are "decent guys" why not open a dialog again and try starting over. Maybe you can get this resolved instead of making it into a "pissing contest"

    When selling I figure occasionally I might have to "toss something back" to my customers if something bad happens with a machine I sold. (Just part of "doing business"). And if I am on the buying end I realize a machine will never be 100% when I get it home - everyone's expectations are different. But there can be "middle ground" if two people try and work together.

    Best of luck getting it all resolved!

    #31 61 days ago

    I think a meeting at the nearest airport is in order here!

    #32 61 days ago
    Quoted from Cherga:

    Absolutely, lesson learned.

    Right, from now on make sure you plug and play and inspect the game before you pay.Sorry you went through that and it could have been worse if it was a 4k-5k game.

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