(Topic ID: 114025)

Bad Deal from E-bay Seller classicarcades


By oldschoolbob

4 years ago



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  • 124 posts
  • 79 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by amendes
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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There are 124 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 4 years ago
Quoted from ClassicArcades:

I do not sell clear apron decals like the company in Australia did.

I bought some spinner stickers from you as well and it looked like it was printed on paper with an inkjet printer, I guess the take away is you should make a quality product and charge accordingly for it, I'd rather pay more and have something that looks good.

#52 4 years ago

A quick coat of rattle-can clear will blend the flat to your gloss, cover the look of the sticker edges a little, and protect the sticker and your newly refinished apron.

#53 4 years ago
Quoted from Blenderhead:

Here's my story. I made a purchase through ebay. I never received the item. I contacted Jeff and explained that tracking indicated "cannot deliver as addressed". I verified he had the correct address. He NEVER REPLIED to my emails. I contacted Ebay and explained. Their reply? "We see it marked as shipped" so they sided with the seller! (Classic Arcades) Why did they side with the seller? Well... the only reason I could see was that the seller pays them lots of seller fees of course! If you ask me..I would say that Classic Arcades and Ebay don't give a crap about the purchaser. It is well noted that if you have any discrepancy with either you are likely hosed. I bitched to ebay, wasted about an hour of my time, just to get a "one time" refund. F both of them if you ask me. I will never buy from Classic Arcades and am ore then fine being "blacklisted" with that schmuck!

Thanks for posting your encounter. I'll learn from this and stay away from this seller. Good timing as I'm looking for a few pinball decals right now. Anyone have a good alternative seller?

#54 4 years ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

I don’t think his listing is clear at all. He calls it a decal – not a sticker. Which lead me to believe it would have a clear background. Or at least a glossy background.

Never really thought about it that way, but it makes sense. However, not the case with pinball. Cabinet decals are not clear nor are they called stickers. I think I would just go ahead and use it and spray gloss clear over it too, as suggested above.

#55 4 years ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

The example shows a gloss white background – my sticker has a flat white background.

Is the protective film still on it? That can sometimes make glossy surfaces look like a flat matte surface.

#56 4 years ago

guys ... i'm not Jeff's defending customer service at all, or how well the description is, return policy, etc. but this definition of what is a 'decal' and what is a 'sticker' is a little off base. So, the Cabinet Decals that everyone has been selling for 10 years should be called Cabinet Stickers?

There is nothing in a dictionary that assigns decal vs sticker - clear vs not clear.

Also, these 'stickers' are not on paper, they are on vinyl (sometimes laminated), but paper is not what most people making pinball related artwork print on.

Just to clear that up - we (PPS) call most things Decals - Cabinet Decals, Playfield Decal Set, etc. So I think it's best to shift to that view but can see how having a different pre-defined view caused the op to have different expectations - as are many problems expectations which are not easily described.

rick

#57 4 years ago

Sounds like a misunderstanding on what a decal is. I can understand the OP thinking a decal is transparent, but in pinball, that's just not so. Cabinet decals are printed on white vinyl (or black, depending on the machine), and target decals aren't see-through at all. I really don't think anything wrong was done here on the seller's part, IMHO.

#58 4 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

guys ... i'm not Jeff's defending customer service at all, or how well the description is, return policy, etc. but this definition of what is a 'decal' and what is a 'sticker' is a little off base. So, the Cabinet Decals that everyone has been selling for 10 years should be called Cabinet Stickers?
There is nothing in a dictionary that assigns decal vs sticker - clear vs not clear.
Also, these 'stickers' are not on paper, they are on vinyl (sometimes laminated), but paper is not what most people making pinball related artwork print on.
Just to clear that up - we (PPS) call most things Decals - Cabinet Decals, Playfield Decal Set, etc. So I think it's best to shift to that view but can see how having a different pre-defined view caused the op to have different expectations - as are many problems expectations which are not easily described ... and not sure how a seller can anticipate these types of expectations as everyday has a new interpretation on things ...
rick

#59 4 years ago

I never assume that a decal is transparent unless it actually says so. If I'm not clear (heh) on it, I'll simply ask.

#60 4 years ago

Two cents from a disinterested party:

One quick look at the photo in the ebay description clearly (to my eye) shows a white background color. If this was printed on clear, you would have seen only the carrier paper color behind the red and blue printing, no white at all.

Decal vs. sticker is all semantics. To me a sticker is self-adhesive, a decal requires the use of water or heat to transfer, like the model airplane decals we all grew up with. All the self-adhesive "decals" used on my machines are really stickers, but called decals by PBL/Marco/whatever. I don't care what they call them, and if I'm not sure about the application/usage of a product, I ask questions.

Lastly, it's just 20 bucks. I've bought several arcade marquees off ebay recently for 20 bucks a pop and wasn't happy with any of them, but I just didn't scrutinize the photos closely enough or ask the right questions. The money wasn't going to break me and now I know not to order from those vendors again or, if I do, ask for a much more clear description and/or photos.

#61 4 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

guys ... i'm not Jeff's defending customer service at all, or how well the description is, return policy, etc. but this definition of what is a 'decal' and what is a 'sticker' is a little off base. So, the Cabinet Decals that everyone has been selling for 10 years should be called Cabinet Stickers?
There is nothing in a dictionary that assigns decal vs sticker - clear vs not clear.
Also, these 'stickers' are not on paper, they are on vinyl (sometimes laminated), but paper is not what most people making pinball related artwork print on.
Just to clear that up - we (PPS) call most things Decals - Cabinet Decals, Playfield Decal Set, etc. So I think it's best to shift to that view but can see how having a different pre-defined view caused the op to have different expectations - as are many problems expectations which are not easily described.
rick

Pretty funny we posted the same thing at the same time!

#62 4 years ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

To me a decal has a clear background
IMG_2747.JPG 120 KB

Sorry but you're in the wrong here. The seller has done no harm and the item is as described. I can see from that photograph too that it is printed vinyl, not paper.

#63 4 years ago

At worst case it's only $10 you "might" be out. Life's too short to turn this into a major issue.

For as much crap as Jeff gets his response was quite professional.

#64 4 years ago
Quoted from Tom_in_NoVA:

I have purchased items from Jeff in the past, insert decals for a Diner to be specific. They did not line up as nicely as I would have liked, but they still look better than nothing at all. The way I look at it, something is better than nothing. And Jeff is the provider of something, where otherwise there would be nothing.

I had the same experience with the insert decals I bought for Space Station. The "SPACE" and "STATION" inserts are way too small; I'll add a pic to this post tomorrow. I made the mistake of thinking the new PPS set would be better - they aren't. They had exactly the same issue (and are probably also made by Jeff). I agree - they're much better than nothing. But they're way too expensive, given that half of them don't fit.

By the way, I will probably buy that apron decal when I get around to my own Trident project. Looks fine to me.

#65 4 years ago

From Merriam-Webster dictionary:

de·cal noun \ˈdē-ˌkal, di-ˈkal; Canada usually ˈde-kəl\

: a picture, design, or label that will stick to the surface on which it is placed after the paper on the back of it is removed

Most people paint the apron and then apply the decal. Then you clear-coat it with semi-gloss clear coat and they look pretty-nice. A lot better than a scabby one.

#66 4 years ago

no argument here about the differences of stickers vs. decals vs. heat transfer iron on's.. (usually for cloth). I can understand the disappointment on one hand but also understand the item is probably as close as you're going to find for what you have, and honestly wouldnt think the seller deliberately trying to make money selling JUNK either.. and at this point, I would use the -sticker-.

another poster suggested clear coating, I'd do it, very slowly and cautiously. wouldnt want the clear to loosen-bleed the printing, so several very light foggings many hours apart over a couple of days time, a couple days hardening before going for glossy, better safe than sorry if it's possible the inks go F'd.
(may also be true for printed water-slide, depending on type of ink?)

it's possible, you might get decent enough results from this product to be allright with it.

not really taking sides, just saying try to make the best effort with what you've now got. I do think water-slide decals would be cleaner and more authentic, but are they even available?
you could likely -win- too, if its really worth the time and effort.
(decal vs. sticker, opaque vs. clear etc)

#67 4 years ago
Quoted from zizzlemeplease:

another poster suggested clear coating, I'd do it, very slowly and cautiously. wouldnt want the clear to loosen-bleed the printing, so several very light foggings many hours apart over a couple of days time, a couple days hardening before going for glossy, better safe than sorry if it's possible the inks go F'd.

Krylon triple thick might be a better option than clear coating. Less risk of the clear coat chemicals "eating" the decal. However, lots of folks put decals on their playfields and clear coat over them, so maybe it's a non-issue.

#68 4 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Krylon triple thick might be a better option than clear coating. Less risk of the clear coat chemicals "eating" the decal. However, lots of folks put decals on their playfields and clear coat over them, so maybe it's a non-issue.

I'd hope non-issue of course, but not knowing the type plastic (vinyl?) or ink used, slow and cautious may be good practice. I hadnt played with Krylon triple thick yet, so no clue how it might act or react. done some woodworking with -really- slow curing epoxy finishing resin, very nice for how it'll evenly lay down smooth-glossy (wouldnt know to trust -it- regarding the ink either).

if triple thick is good *safe* stuff for this decal-sticker, ClassicArcades might know or want to test to know, to recommend or reject as part of installing and finishing, seems sensible to me anyway.
it'd maybe resolve oldschoolbob's issue here and helpful for future purchases by others too?
(more economical for ClassicArcades to test out and know his product even better I'd think)

#69 4 years ago

The term sticker/decal/label are inter changeable

You have to select what material type, adhesive type, and color you want.
http://www.mclogan.com/shop/plotter-vinyl-sticker-material-c-201.html

#70 4 years ago

If you are going to clear coat it, I recommend these products. They are pricey, but they work.

http://www.texascraft.com/hps/Aerosol-Products/

You can also go to a place like Hobby Lobby where you can find a small can of the Testors version for a couple of bucks. It works just as well but I have no idea what the long term lastability is. Applying a fixative before clearcoating will keep your colors set.

You wrote to the seller and he offered you the best way out. Get over it or past it or whatever, but quit letting it ruin your day. Then be thankful you're not looking for a widebody Bally apron sticker or the one for EBD which everyone sells for the first or second version but NOT the third. Which is what I am restoring. The apron stripes are red and gold on a black background. So I will make 'em myself with my Silhouette cutter and some rattle cans. Done.

#71 4 years ago

..my 2 cents. Whether or not the OP is right or wrong, I feel this is Karma rearing her ugly head on ClassicArcades. While I realize that the majority of Pinsiders are Newbies (NOT a pejorative term) having been in the hobby say, post 2005 or so. Jeff has been around quite some time and for those of you who used to be on RVAC & RGP, you should certainly know better than to avoid him & his abysmal "customer service", far inferior "art" and frankly, his "Fuck off & die" attitude. Once the sale is done with this guy, it's done. Want a refund? Good luck! Item didn't match the description? That's YOUR problem. Artwork isn't even close to original? Well, it's NOT original, it's repro, it's supposed to be a little different.
Why this guy is still in business confounds me. Take your business elsewhere. This guy has been in my "don't deal with" file for a very very long time.

#72 4 years ago

340770-i-157.jpg
Stern_Stars_Apron_Decal_Set.jpg

The only difference I see between these two is that the one in the auction has the protective film over it. Did yours not come with this film over it? If so, that would be reason enough to get a return in my eyes, as you would not be able to apply it properly. Otherwise, they look identical and the description doesn't seem to be misleading.

Not trying to pick sides here, but a decal will never look that great on an apron, regardless of whether or not it is cheap paper, silk-screened vinyl sticker or some sort of transparent variety. I'd consider it a better than nothing sort of solution, but it would still be susceptible to damage and scratching.

This design is simple enough and is only two color. You could frisket off your apron and spray it yourself, and use this sticker as a template for the cuts. Then you can clear over it when you're done. Use waterslide decals for the type. I enjoy doing that sorta thing though, have done it to most the aprons on my games. Doesn't take too much time to do. Basic Williams SYS11 game apron can be frisketed out for each color, airbrushed (or spray-painted), and cleared in about 3 hrs or less, sans drying time.

#73 4 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

I had the same experience with the insert decals I bought for Space Station. The "SPACE" and "STATION" inserts are way too small; I'll add a pic to this post tomorrow. I made the mistake of thinking the new PPS set would be better - they aren't. They had exactly the same issue (and are probably also made by Jeff). I agree - they're much better than nothing. But they're way too expensive, given that half of them don't fit.

This looks great.
IMG_6665.JPG

And here are some vinyl decals Jeff did for me about 10 years ago - they've aged really well.
IMG_6667.JPG
IMG_6668.JPG

So what happened here?
IMG_6662.JPG
IMG_6663.JPG

I understand if you're creating insert decals for dozens of games, there's not enough time to get it perfect. These would be fine for $20 - not so great at $50 though.

#74 4 years ago

His tz clock faces are really nice great idea also minus that its missing the 5 and 7 on the color one that I thought was fixed?

3 weeks later
#75 4 years ago

I think it is sad to see all the attacks on Jeff, as he has contributed a lot to this hobby, and without him we would not have access to insert decals. Seems he never gets the praise he deserves on Pinside.

I have been doing business with Jeff for over 10 years, have bought many insert decal sets, and can tell you that most of his artwork is spot on, and always printed on top quality material.

Most of the complaints I see in this thread are ridiculous, like the one about wax taking off the artwork. Jeff has two types of insert decals, one with artwork printed top side, and the other printed bottom side. The topside printing is intended to be clear coated over, so if you use these without clear coating and then apply wax, of course the petroleum products in the wax will take off the artwork.

Jeff can be hard to reach sometimes, but everyone gets busy at times.

#76 4 years ago

Have you guys seen that he is selling what i believe are PPS's playfield overlays on Ebay? I don't care how bad i want it i would not purchase from him!

#77 4 years ago
Quoted from gdeleon:

I think it is sad to see all the attacks on Jeff, as he has contributed a lot to this hobby, and without him we would not have access to insert decals. Seems he never gets the praise he deserves on Pinside.
I have been doing business with Jeff for over 10 years, have bought many insert decal sets, and can tell you that most of his artwork is spot on, and always printed on top quality material.
Most of the complaints I see in this thread are ridiculous, like the one about wax taking off the artwork. Jeff has two types of insert decals, one with artwork printed top side, and the other printed bottom side. The topside printing is intended to be clear coated over, so if you use these without clear coating and then apply wax, of course the petroleum products in the wax will take off the artwork.
Jeff can be hard to reach sometimes, but everyone gets busy at times.

It's not about being busy. His space invaders stencils were plain incorrect. There is so much I would have to do to fix them that I don't dare even use the set. Contacted him MULTIPLE times and all I got was silence on the line. Now I'm out $150. THAT is why he is getting the rap he is. Not bad, accurate!

21
#78 4 years ago

Apron problem is resolved. Once Lee from Pinball Rescue returned from his holiday I ordered an apron decal. It cost more and it took two weeks to get here but the difference is amazing. Like night and day. It has a clear gloss finish just like a decal should. The colors are bright and dark and the lettering is crisp. The clear background made it easy to install because I could see any air bubbles under it. I wish the rest of the machine looked as awesome as the apron. I’m very happy with the results.

Someone here said you get what you pay for – that’s very true and I’ve learned my lesson. If you want crap go to Classic Arcades – if you want top quality decals go to Pinball Rescue.

IMG_2806.JPG IMG_2818.JPG IMG_2809-880.JPG IMG_2828-126.JPG
#79 4 years ago

Can buyers even leave negative feedback on ebay these days? I didn't think you could.

#80 4 years ago
Quoted from captainadam_21:

Can buyers even leave negative feedback on ebay these days? I didn't think you could.

Buyers can leave bad feedback. Sellers now cannot.

#81 4 years ago

Wow that's a big difference. Thanks for posting.

#82 4 years ago

I was thinking of ordering Jeff's backside backbox warning decal/sticker (yellow lettering)?

Can anyone vouch for the quality of them? I am gun shy now!

Any other options?

#83 4 years ago
Quoted from PinPlayer2:

I was thinking of ordering Jeff's backside backbox warning decal/sticker (yellow lettering)?
Can anyone vouch for the quality of them? I am gun shy now!
Any other options?

I have the same questions and concerns regarding the High Speed insert decals.

#84 4 years ago

If I were looking for quality decals right now, I'd call the man with the license (Rick @ PPS) and ask him what my options are. Perhaps he already has a "licensed partners" page up now to make this query easier.
-mof

#85 4 years ago

For a long time I have wondered why the license holders of pinball products don't hold their suppliers more accountable for the quality and accuracy of the products they make. Take the recent uproar for cabinet stencils for instance. Something is better than nothing. Which it is. There is very little, if any, competition on many pinball items.
I think that the PPS purchase is showing signs of wanting to license as much as possible. Sell,sell,sell. I hope that we can get enough vendors into the hobby so that PPS can "weed out" the ones that aren't delivering the quality and service the brand demands. Or... Maybe PPS will have to step in and tighten up some obvious problems from licensed vendors.

#86 4 years ago
Quoted from Ballypalooza:

Maybe PPS will have to step in and tighten up some obvious problems from licensed vendors.

Yes, they will step in but as Rick had mentioned at Texas Pinball Festival about 3 years ago, Rick has to be notified of the problem in order to look into it.

#87 4 years ago
Quoted from LesManley:

Ebay's new policy is that the seller has to pay for return shipping. Open an item dispute through eBay and I'm sure he will just refund in full instead. He doesn't have a lot of options at that point.

Wow, really? That sounds like an excellent reason to never sell internationally ever again to me.

#88 4 years ago

I bought his "laminated" insert decal set for F-14. They were printed on mylar-type material and the art was perfectly shaped and complete.

The problem is that the printing is ON TOP of the material. Therefore any parts that is printed, is not shiny like the clear background.

Not sure what the "laminated" part of this decal set was but in the decal industry that I am familiar, laminated means there is a shiny clear material over the printing that provides a uniform shine. His do not have this...

#89 4 years ago

Rick and Jeff are in it together - Rick sent me a private e-mail then copied Jeff. I will not deal with either of them.

#90 4 years ago

I made my own using stencil vinyl and airbrush several years back. I had to expand the STERN text slightly but was very pleased with the results... never been a fan of any decal

Before.
WF apron before.JPG

After
Stern apron blue (2).JPG

#91 4 years ago

dang bob.. I did have the impression both parties of this transaction were being stubborn or unreasonable, BUT NOT NOW!! night vs day is absolutely right between the two decals, and it really shouldn't be. my opinion now, you are due full refund from C/A, who oughtta just take this little slugfest as sincere constructive criticism to step up his game. I wouldn't think he wants to or tries to take advantage, that'd only kill his rep and business. there ARE whiners out there who'll try to take advantage of him, so I can relate to his stubborn position as well.

you (bob) have pointed it out, a white background wont work right (there's many "shades" of white).
clear takes care of that, also needed for chasing out any bubbles. I dont like clobbering anyone with the blame stick, I dont know if the lighter colors are correct for the machine it was made for, or if what he had as an example to work from wasn't a victim of age and sun fading, things CAN happen!

all that is my opinion now, glad you got a GOOD part, hope you get a full refund, and C/A steps up the products-services he's trying to offer.

#92 4 years ago

Wait aren't the blues suppose to be light blue and not dark blue.

Quoted from oldschoolbob:

Apron problem is resolved. Once Lee from Pinball Rescue returned from his holiday I ordered an apron decal. It cost more and it took two weeks to get here but the difference is amazing. Like night and day. It has a clear gloss finish just like a decal should. The colors are bright and dark and the lettering is crisp. The clear background made it easy to install because I could see any air bubbles under it. I wish the rest of the machine looked as awesome as the apron. I’m very happy with the results.
Someone here said you get what you pay for – that’s very true and I’ve learned my lesson. If you want crap go to Classic Arcades – if you want top quality decals go to Pinball Rescue.

IMG_2806.JPG 109 KB

IMG_2818.JPG 74 KB

IMG_2809-880.JPG 76 KB

IMG_2828-126.JPG 215 KB

#93 4 years ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

Rick and Jeff are in it together - Rick sent me a private e-mail then copied Jeff. I will not deal with either of them.

Amen brother

#94 4 years ago
Quoted from oldschoolbob:

Apron problem is resolved. Once Lee from Pinball Rescue returned from his holiday I ordered an apron decal. It cost more and it took two weeks to get here but the difference is amazing. Like night and day. It has a clear gloss finish just like a decal should. The colors are bright and dark and the lettering is crisp. The clear background made it easy to install because I could see any air bubbles under it. I wish the rest of the machine looked as awesome as the apron. I’m very happy with the results.
Someone here said you get what you pay for – that’s very true and I’ve learned my lesson. If you want crap go to Classic Arcades – if you want top quality decals go to Pinball Rescue.

Wow, I will never buy a decal from classic arcades after seeing that.

#95 4 years ago
Quoted from PinPlayer2:

I was thinking of ordering Jeff's backside backbox warning decal/sticker (yellow lettering)?
Can anyone vouch for the quality of them? I am gun shy now!
Any other options?

I'd stay away from anything Jeff is selling. The pictures above speak for themselves. He (seller of crappy decals) should've just refunded and been done with it. This thread will no doubt divert MANY potential sales away from him and personally I'm glad the op opened this thread. I like to learn from my pinball brothers and support sellers who are actually good for the hobby.

#96 4 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Wait aren't the blues suppose to be light blue and not dark blue.

The dark blue matches the play-field.

#97 4 years ago

That comparison photo is amazing on several levels. So much of the argument is over subjective semantics: "decal v. sticker"; "gloss v. matte"; "white v. off-white v. clear"; etc. I personally attribute this to the pool of potential uses and expectations... and better communication from both parties could have avoided that.

But the Classic Arcades one has a HORRIBLE flaw in the "flipper button" lettering: poor kerning, bad arc, misalignment... Also compare the "For Amusement Only", the coloring of the Stern logos, and the quality of the concentric arcs below them. Astounding.

I'm not well enough versed in arcane pin knowledge to know if any such flaws were "typical of the era" and/or original, but one looks horrible. All else being equal - if they were printed in the same colors on the same medium - I would definitely choose the Pinball Rescue version.

Of course, that's owed to the luxury of choice. As others have stated, if the CA version was all that's out there...? Some titles probably only have one repro vendor, and beggars can't be choosers.

But damn: I'd at least expect someone reproducing artwork to get it right before offering it for sale!

(That said, I know reproducing art is not always easy... which is why I hate selling my own stuff without heavy disclaimers and admissions that I ain't perfect...)

#98 4 years ago

Indeed--the comparison photos remove all debate over terminology. The difference between the two is like night and day.

#99 4 years ago

How many options *are* out there for getting decals?
-mof

#100 4 years ago

Posting those photos ended this discussion. Amazing the difference.

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