(Topic ID: 145651)

Bad Buyer FRAUD Alert: TOPAZ


By Iceman5000

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 40 posts
  • 27 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by mrossman5
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 3 years ago

    Just wanted to put this out there to protect anyone else. But since it looks like he just created his pinside account to scam me, he's probably long gone. He purchased my New Getaway plastics set in October. Paid me using Pay-Pal. As soon as he received them he filed a chargeback (claiming credit card fraud)with pay-pal. PayPal tried to fight it on my behalf with the CC company, but ultimately lost. Now I'm out $160 + $20 chargeback fee. $180.00 total. I've tried contacting him to make it right, but he has completely ignored me. Pinside shows his last activity was on pinside 10/30/2015.

    After 16 years problem free with PayPal, I am done with them too.

    Here is all the info I have on him:

    Lior Atiyas
    140-66B Burden Cres
    Briarwood or Jamaica, New York 11435

    I have also learned he runs a scam moving company called Advanced Moving Services out of Boston, MA. New York, NY and Aston, PA.

    I will get the money back my own way, but I just wanted to warn any one else.

    #2 3 years ago

    You were screwed to begin with. If a Paypal buyer wants their money back, they will get it no matter what. He could just as easily claimed you sent him his old busted plastics and the item was not as described. Or say that he received counterfeit reproductions and taken pictures of his destroyed old plastics to show Paypal he trashed them. I hope you get your money back somehow.

    #3 3 years ago

    16 year run with PayPal and no issues? If so you have had the best luck I have heard of. People get screwed all the time for little stuff like this and even larger. It sucks but one transaction every 16 years is pretty good.

    #5 3 years ago

    Thanks for the heads up.

    #6 3 years ago

    I got my £3000 from PayPal from Skit B so they are OK in my book!

    #7 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinhead1982:

    I got my £3000 from PayPal from Skit B so they are OK in my book!

    PayPal treats buyers better. But you should probably be thanking your credit card company if you had to charge back to get your refund!

    #8 3 years ago

    As a seller, Paypal totally sucks ass.

    #9 3 years ago

    Yea, I didn't even check his post count or when he created his pinside account. My bad. I am usually much more thorough than that. I was very busy at the time.

    #10 3 years ago

    I did not pay with a credit card. Direct bank transfer. I had trouble at first then the rep said because I use PayPal a lot they will get the money back.

    #11 3 years ago
    Quoted from Iceman5000:

    Jamaica, New York

    Tells you all you need to know.

    #12 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinhead1982:

    I did not pay with a credit card. Direct bank transfer. I had trouble at first then the rep said because I use PayPal a lot they will get the money back.

    Nice. Still goes to the point that you may be OK buying through PayPal, but if you're selling you're leaving yourself open to a chargeback down the line, so you've got to have a reason to trust the buyer.

    #13 3 years ago

    Iceman, sorry that you got taken. Thanks for posting this and alerting the community.

    #14 3 years ago

    With a name like Lior.....kinda sounds like Liar

    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from inhomearcades:

    16 year run with PayPal and no issues? If so you have had the best luck I have heard of. People get screwed all the time for little stuff like this and even larger. It sucks but one transaction every 16 years is pretty good.

    I'm going on 16 years with PayPal (signed up in 2000) and have not had one single issue yet. In fact they saved my ass on a bad purchase (never received the merchandise). Granted I don't sell a ton using PayPal and I don't sell high dollar items accepting PayPal.

    #16 3 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    Granted I don't sell a ton using PayPal

    That greatly raises your Paypal satisfaction score.

    #17 3 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    I'm going on 16 years with PayPal (signed up in 2000) and have not had one single issue yet. In fact they saved my ass on a bad purchase (never received the merchandise). Granted I don't sell a ton using PayPal and I don't sell high dollar items accepting PayPal.

    Yea the selling side is where you get screwed. I have yet to be unhappy in any situation as a buyer with paypal.

    #18 3 years ago
    Quoted from xsvtoys:

    Tells you all you need to know.

    I agree, I live 10 mins away. No bueno

    #19 3 years ago

    Paypal member since 2001 and I couldn't imagine life without it at this point. Already used it twice this am. The trick is to do high volume of relative small amounts (under $500) over and over again so that you can easily absorb a loss here and there and live to fight another day. Transactions over $500 make me a bit nervous so I tend to use more caution there. Also, avoid selling things that scammers target like electronics & jewelry. Letting this one bad transaction deter you from paypal for life is simply compounding your loss over time.

    Quoted from Iceman5000:

    After 16 years problem free with PayPal, I am done with them too.

    #20 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    As a seller, Paypal totally sucks ass.

    As a buyer, Paypal sucks ass too. Last year I bought a $600 smartphone on eBay via PayPal. I get the phone, it's blocked on the carrier - i.e. useless. Seller doesn't respond. I file buyer guarantee thing with eBay. They accept it, I return the item w/tracking. PayPal inexplicably refuses to credit me, claiming I didn't prove the phone was misrepresented (I was never asked to and eBay APPROVED the claim). I think the real reason is that the seller was a fly-by-night who emptied his account so PayPal can't get their money back...and PayPal sure as heck doesn't want to eat $600 on account of some stupid Buyer Protection policy.

    Three months ago I get a fraudulent charge on my Capital One card billed via PayPal. I dispute it as unauthorized. Paypal tells my card issuer it's legit, furnishes paperwork from the merchant showing my card number but with an incorrect expiration, no AVS match, no CVV match, etc. It gets better! Capital One accepts this paperwork as proof and refuses to credit me for an outright fraudulent charge! I had to go to the CFPB to get this taken care of. Insane.

    TL;DR: PayPal cares neither about its buyers or sellers, and in most cases will simply take whichever action is most profitable for them.

    #21 3 years ago

    Yeah I kinda agree about Paypal. It is a great and convenient service in many ways and I use it a lot to be sure. But only in small amounts, never anything more than $100 for sure, and usually only for <$50. That way if something happens either as a buyer or a seller I won't get nailed for too much. For anything bigger I go with other more reliable means. If I am paying, I use my MC as it is more reliable to resolve disputes that way. Note to mrgregb123 - if Capital One treated you that way on such an obvious fraud, you should dump them right away. Who needs that aggravation. I have had a Citibank MC for a long time, and I have been nailed a number of times with stupid fraudulent charges, and they have always taken care of it with minimal grief.

    I haven't looked into it recently, but I know in the past that Paypal also had the right to freeze your ENTIRE balance if they deemed it necessary for some sort of fraud resolution, even if your total balance was much higher than the disputed amount. And even if you were obviously totally innocent. There were lots of stories about people getting locked out of hundreds or even thousands of dollars of their own money with no way out. For that reason, I don't keep much money in my Paypal account at any one time. Maybe they have cleaned that up though.

    #22 3 years ago

    I've only had one dispute through PayPal on a $780 purchase and I won that one.

    I've had many disputes with my Credit Card (also Capital One) over the years and have won 100% of those as well.

    #23 3 years ago

    As a seller, ONLY accept payment via Paypal as a gift option. Funds are not allowed to come from CC when buyers use the Gift option, so they can't receive an item then file a chargeback. That's the only way I'll take payment via Paypal...otherwise it's wire transfer, cash or no deal. Paypal protects buyers far more than sellers, as others have stated.

    #24 3 years ago
    Quoted from jk2171:

    As a seller, ONLY accept payment via Paypal as a gift option. Funds are not allowed to come from CC when buyers use the Gift option, so they can't receive an item then file a chargeback. That's the only way I'll take payment via Paypal...otherwise it's wire transfer, cash or no deal. Paypal protects buyers far more than sellers, as others have stated.

    I agree that the gift option makes it a little more difficult.....but you most certainly can still make that payment using a CC....I've done it several times.

    #25 3 years ago
    Quoted from jk2171:

    As a seller, ONLY accept payment via Paypal as a gift option. Funds are not allowed to come from CC when buyers use the Gift option, so they can't receive an item then file a chargeback. That's the only way I'll take payment via Paypal...otherwise it's wire transfer, cash or no deal. Paypal protects buyers far more than sellers, as others have stated.

    Yes, they are - I just sent a gift payment this morning via a card. And be careful, as PayPal is starting to tighten up on this, too - if they find out, they'll close your account and take the "gift" money back...

    #26 3 years ago

    Maybe they have a limit to the transaction amount then? I've tried but it never works. Good to know....wire transfers only now!

    #27 3 years ago
    Quoted from jk2171:

    As a seller, ONLY accept payment via Paypal as a gift option. Funds are not allowed to come from CC when buyers use the Gift option, so they can't receive an item then file a chargeback.

    You CAN use a card for gift, and you CAN get a chargeback.

    PAYPAL GIFT IS NOT SAFE.

    #28 3 years ago

    Paypal once asked for their money back on a chargeback that was filed by a woman whose teenage daughter used her CC to purchase records from me on eBay. Positive feedback was left, but they insisted (two months later) that I ask my items back and pay them $200. When I asked why they didnt verify identification being that they were the payment processor, they said "We're not a bank, sir."

    I told them they will never see that money as I will never see the records I sold. That was ten years ago and, while it hasnt been easy to buy online, it has felt great to not have caved into that bullshit.

    #29 3 years ago

    You just have to pay a whopping fee when you gift with a credit card.

    #30 3 years ago

    I essentially lost a pay pal claim once, bought some things from the U.K and it arrived but the box contained a totally different item. The seller told me they weren't going to refund or correct it as they think they sent the right item so I raised a complaint with Pay Pal and they ruled "in my favour" but said I had to pay return shipping on an item I bought that had free shipping to begin with.

    Shipping would have cost more than the item itself cost so I'd essentially end up paying double the amount on the hope that they send the right product the second time. They didn't want to ship the correct item either until they recieved the old one back, so they had the right one with them but originally claimed they had sent that to me. These are used out of production hand painted war gaming models too so it's not like they have a bunch on stock that look exactly the same.

    I ended up keeping the other item as it was worth more than what I'd ordered, problem is I still have it in the cupboard somewhere with zero use for it and I couldn't find the item I did buy anywhere else. Still don't see how paypal can force me to eat the return shipping when it's that expensive for what was clearly a mistake on the seller's end.

    #31 3 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    You just have to pay a whopping fee when you gift with a credit card.

    The fee *always* exists. "gift" just means the buyer is paying it; not the seller.

    #32 3 years ago

    Isn't the moral of the story here just that financial transactions are inherently risky, and the higher the dollar amount, the greater the risk? Sure, a face to face transaction with cash seems like a sure bet for both parties, but honestly there's still the possibility someone is just out to rob you, and often that's just totally implausible for geographical reasons. Paypal gets a lot of bad wrap but I think it's way better than the way online transactions were before it existed, when there was little protection for anybody. If you factor the efficiencies that online markets create in terms of allowing massively larger quantities of buyers and sellers to connect with each other much more easily, it seems well worth the occasional bad experience. Of course, everyone should be careful and use due diligence, and the bigger the amount at stake, the more diligence required. If you engage in economic activity, you will once in a while have a bad transaction, but I don't think it's fair to villainize paypal specifically.

    #33 3 years ago
    Quoted from jfesler:

    The fee *always* exists. "gift" just means the buyer is paying it; not the seller.

    I know...but when doing a gift from a bank account, it's free. That's all I meant. You still have to pay a fee with a credit card.

    #34 3 years ago
    Quoted from Iceman5000:

    He purchased my New Getaway plastics set in October. Paid me using Pay-Pal. As soon as he received them he filed a charge back (claiming credit card fraud)with pay-pal. PayPal tried to fight it on my behalf with the CC company, but ultimately lost.

    I'm really sorry to hear about your loss, that really sucks. Did you send the package certified, signature required? I'm just wondering how others can help protect themselves. I've been taken at work in a similar situation, but they made a point to give cc over the phone and p up in person so we had no proof.

    #35 3 years ago

    As a seller I used to sell a lot of stuff on ebay accepting Paypal. I have had two charge backs for low dollar item. I did however refund a $1500 item that was damaged during shipping and UPS wouldn't cover it. They gave me the old "well it had to double boxed to get a refund" line. Never used UPS again.
    As a buyer Paypal has screwed me over every now and then when paying to a Canadian seller. Just received an ISF for $37.00 from my bank today because instead of taking money out of my payapl account for an item they tried to take it out of my bank account? I have hundreds in my paypal but for some reason they tried to take from my bank account. My bank account I use is just for paypal not my real bank account so never have money in it. This is the third time I got hit with this crap.
    When I buy something and pay with paypal why the hell are they trying to take from my bank account with an Echeck???

    #36 3 years ago

    This transaction was paid as a gift with a credit card. Just FYI.

    2 years later
    #37 1 year ago

    Just had a person of the same name purchase a pinball manual and make an offer on a very expensive pinball machine today. NY address. Didn't smell right, googled his name, and found this thread - thank you for posting. Cancelled his order and declined the offer on the pinball. His ebay ID is now "the1choice", name still shows as Lior Atiyas, shipping label comes up as Stefanie Attias, 1624 Broadway, Hewlett, NY. Beware!

    #38 1 year ago

    Just googled and bing’d this guy. He’s all over the internet. Scumbag!

    Only one of many example I found...

    I can't believe that I was almost a victim of this company. I was given an estimate for $9000.00 from my move from upstate new york to Snellville, GA. On the day of the move the head mover arrived with three guys that looked like they were homeless drug addicts(i was very intimidated by them). They arrived in a truck that belonged to Velocity Moving, and the head mover could barely speak english. As he started the move, it became apparent that the head guy was the only one that had expeience, and he kept stating that the move will cost more than the estimate. They were hired to do full packing, and they came only with four guys and a small truck(other companies when they quoted the move told me a tractor trailer would be needed). I immediately asked these "men" to leave my premises. After doing some research, I found out that this company has been changing their name for years. First they were The Right Move, then Cross Country Relocation, then City2City Moving, and now they go by the name Relocation Moving & Storage. BE VEY CAREFULL OF THIS COMPANY....they will badmouth every other mover out there just to make themself look better. I wish I did more research on them as they are all over the internet including the BBB and comsumer affairs. More importantly their license number

    #39 1 year ago
    Quoted from Iceman5000:

    I will get the money back my own way, but I just wanted to warn any one else.

    I know it’s been two years, but wonder how the OP, iceman5000 , got even?

    #40 1 year ago

    Thanks for letting us know. It seems like PayPal always sides with the buyer.

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