I've fired a few customers in my day. And a few bosses too....

minor flaw, got all anal over a color issue
colors should be more perfect

You be the judge: I'd like the grass to look a brighter green/more realistic was my biggest concern - that would be a good place to start by correcting..........

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illawarra92 - didn't mean to hijack your thread

Kind of reminds me of the few samples of q-bert I did. People didn't like the purple, yellow, or orange. Don't think much changed in the printers tweaking for the second one donated to TPF in 2015. The artist John Trudeau thought it looked good, & signed it. After that I usually give up, & just allow the printer to print the art supplied. Almost reminds me of the constant bitching you hear from a few people about it doesn't look original. Or the best is the producers that say this is a better version, or far superior. I don't pay attention anymore, about it has to be screened, or next gen this for printing.

Glad that usually 9 out of 10 people are very happy to have a replacement glass. Just like you figure 5%+ of your shipments will be damaged or destroyed by UPS. They always have a excuse not to pay anything. I warn people not to release their package back for inspection. Since it will go into the dumpster! I'm lucky that my superior packing job & materials (not a engineered box with stamp) have my loss ratio around 3% with UPS. If UPS hears the glass has broken in the box, or a hint of serious damage. They can refuse to delivery, & dispose in the dumpster as a safety precaution without even opening the box. Had a playfield crushed at the corner, that look like forklift wheel ran over it. UPS denied the claim, & the owner & myself wasted many hours.

I took a leap of faith and ordered four glasses from Steve before I had even seen one, let alone several. It did seem to take forever but was worth the time. I would have thought the word was out there already on this matter?? Well, if not... it is 'now'. Seems like I knew ahead of time that I was going to have to... 'hurry up and wait'. But I wanted to put it out there that the glasses look amazing. They don't have that phony baloney 'plastic' look to them and the colors are vibrant and amazing. I also wanted to say that negative press (not all) like this on a public forum can sometimes have unfavorable consequences for the rest of us. Let's not cut off our nose to spite our face.

I think it looks fine. Only reason you can tell is because they are side by side. You throw that in the game and put the old one away, like you are going to do anyway, and nobody would know the difference. Color saturation when backlit is more important than dead nuts spot on color matching. If the colors are close, nobody is going to know the difference unless another one is sitting right next to it.

You're the customer so if you're not happy with it I'd refund your money. But there is no way I would redo that, it looks great.

Reproduction vs no production....

Repro wins 100% of the time

All,

I was one of the people in Hoov's BG group. for the record there was not three people contacting Steve. We cared about Steve's time and having a clarity of message. Nothing wrong in Hoov's posts that can be challenged by people in the know. Apart from my early forwarding of color swatch references we only worked through Hoov. It was Steve's idea to replace the glass as the art approval stage was missed not ours.

Further for the record I sent Steve the Pantone color references from a real glass and Steve told us that the manufacturer could not reference them with his software. I believe that is the crux of the issue why the wheels fell off. Its in Steve's eyes we trust. And he gets it right most of the time. I have two glasses from Steve and they will do. Will I order from Steve again and not ask for a refund absolutely.

Steve is busy, this is a communication issue really, Steve says again that he will work on it so lets close this thread down as the message is delivered and accepted. Nothing more to see.

Have a great Thanksgiving Steve with your family. You too Clay & Mrbally.

I agree with you hoov. Unless of course the protector over the front alters the coloring, I think your complaint is valid. It is definitely not TERRIBLE and something you could "deal with", but that sounds kinda depressing and definitely not the kind of emotion you want to have after such an expensive purchase - this is a hobby after all.

The skin colors and dirt were also lightened it seems (and frankly look better in that case however), so I guess it depends if you want originality or what looks "best". I do not think the new green fits either of these, though.

Perhaps it's being anal but that's a lot of money to pay. I find that sometimes the value of the dollar is lost in this hobby with people dropping thousands on machines (which is fine, but I'm saying it makes $100 sound like a whole lot less than it did before).

Looking back at it again that color is more than just a little off, it's muted as hell.

As a graphic designer myself, this is like the main color of the glass, I am surprised it was so easy to get that far off. Looks like those players are playing in a drought.

Take a look (original on the left of course):

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It does not matter if something is your main business or a hobby on the side, if you take it on it is up to you to be professional

I have seen many threads in Pinside where the main problem is a lack of communication . People don't mind waiting but when two months becomes six months, and then a year, you cannot blame customers for being frustrated

Here is some of the purchase orders I have with Marco Specialties slowly being filled over months. I bundle my glass in lots of 3, & roll the dice with UPS. Cardboard corner protectors likely help out! There is going to be differences in color & methods of production. People need to remember pinball parts were never produced to a high & exact standard. Same thing goes for actual games made now or back when flippers were installed. Glad Rick from Planetary Pinball finally figured that out years ago, or there would be less parts available now. I remember when I started buying pins 20 years ago, junk a bunch to make or keep better ones going. I'm sure I sent 60+ pins to the dump or into a fire. A couple of Bally Spectrums, Asteroid Annie, & other rarer pins had their life ended.

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Not to derail this one too much, but the problem with PPS is they approve some people who are making crap, yet they get sideways with guys who were making top quality stuff because of nothing more than pure greed.

We all want parts, but none of us wants junk, especially considering some of the prices for said junk.

Is there a particular reason you use UPS? Personally, I'd never ship a glass with them. Ham handed is the only way to describe them. FedEx is a much better bet for getting glasses shipped.

Interesting discussion.

Seems with all repro glasses, some are perfect and others not so good with color matching.

I have some Shay glasses that are a perfect match and a few others that colors are off a fair bit but they are 100% better than no original glass or a crummy original!

Hope everyone is happy with how things pan out going forward

Steve did a glass for me. About 2 months into the wait he called me, there had been a mistake that he spotted before shipment and he wanted to fix it, remake it, and send out the good one but it would take another month, I said no problem. About 6 weeks later it arrived and I could not have been more pleased. I would use bgresto again.

this is not a fair comparison, because I can tell that most of that is flash glare. If you look, it's darker green in the right corner more than the left. there is no way you can get an accurate color assessment from that picture .

i know from experience that backglasses have different colors depending on who printed them for certain games. Many had different companies making the same glass, much like they did for playfields. I can tell you first hand that there are at least 6 color variations for twilight zones. Depending when they were printed, and who printed them. Same with creature. So B/W must have had several companies making fields for them at that time. Same holds true for backglasses. Even with games like Robot. I've seen 3 different color schemes for the original backglasses. It happens, and none of them are wrong.

I guess I fall into the camp of "happy to have an option". I ordered 3 glasses from Steve last year and went through some of the same delays some of you guys mentioned. These were glasses he'd already done before so I assumed they would be quicker. My only real complaint was the lack of response and the false completion dates. Happy to hear Steve is going to try and remedy that.

In the end I turned around and sent him two more right after that first order. Some extremely rare glasses that need restoration (Williams SKYWAY and ARMY-NAVY) and he will likely never have another customer for. I'm very appreciative to Steve for taking these projects on and not gouging me big dollars for the extra work or limited demand of the glasses. I would've expected to pay a LOT more for something that required drawing from scratch and recreation of missing art, but that was not the case.

Personally I just feel bad calling him up on his personal phone. As long I can get the occasional email or text with a status update I'm happy to wait.

Colour matching is a thankless task and also an impossible one.

EVERY SINGLE BATCH of plastic parts we run is ever so slightly different to the last - same goes with screen printing. And this is using modern inks and printing proceses.

People need to step back, take a deep breath and realise this is NORMAL!

Back in the day, different runs of playfields very often had different (slightly) colours - same goes for plastics.

It's just the way it is and anyone who complains about a "slightly different shade of purple" (etc etc) is FAR too anal IMO.

We should all be thankful that there are people like Steve who are prepared to do this work AT ALL and he still has to put up with anal customers whinging that the "shade isn't exactly right" - Pfftt, get a life you guys! (the ones that complain about this - not all).

Flame away, you can always count on plenty of thumbs down here on Pinside when the truth hurts.

Thanks. I asked because I remember he was doing them on plexi. Has this changed and are his screened glasses better than before or do you still need to use LED lights for them to look right?

Bruce

They're not screened. He uses some sort of digital printing technique.
The masking layer on the back looks very different, but the effect from the front is pretty much the same.
I saw a lot of Steve's work on Clay's machines at the VFW show and was very impressed.

I'll check his website out then. Thanks.

Bruce

Ahh! That makes total sense. I've got a Gottlieb Swing Along with a plexi backglass, and I never understood why. It's got Franc coin acceptors, so I'm guessing it was a reimport.

Steve never made anything on plexiglass. Never. Even in the beginning it was always doing it on glass. Part of his process uses a vacuum oven and plastic would melt.

Sometimes I'm glad I'm colorblind.

If it weren't for Steve my CC Super Hockey game would be stuck with this backglass.....MyGlass (resized).JPG Instead Steve was able to make a repro for me that turned out like this..... IMG_6955[1] (resized).JPG

actually someone really took some time on that hockey BG.

Agree, but man it's still ugly!!

It's actually quite good for what it is! Wow.

Certainly a blessing and not a curse!

Just today I received my Triple Strike backglass from Steve. It took about two months and looks very nice. It goes well with the total restoration including cab and head repaint. Packaging was excellent. Thanks again Steve, you do top notch work.

I'm still waiting. Ordered and paid Sept 1st and was told 6-8 weeks for 2 backglasses. Nothing so far

Just received my glass yesterday from Steve!

Had Steve make a new backglass for my Chicago Cubs Triple Play. It took a little longer than the original estimate but, the final product was very nice. Colors are great and looks like the original one in the game (of course, minus the flaws). I happy and think it was worth the wait. I would not hesitate to work with Steve again.

Amen
Let's keep it simple. If you accept the work process it in a timely fashion and communicate to your customer. Otherwise don't accept the work. I tried to get in touch with this business several weeks ago and just gave up. Guess I am impatient. Seems like there is enough business to do this full time. Shay is also bavkloghed big time andnonly does this as a part time thing

I should be receiving mine any day now too. Here's the before and after art work of mine he done, I just got in an email couple days ago. I'm excited to see what it looks like in the machine.

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Talk about nothing to lose. He could hand draw a replacement and you would be better off. Congrats on the grand improvement.

Well, That's exactly what he's there for.....wonder what you'll look like when your 70 years old

That really was a back handed compliment on my end - not what I had intended. Sorry.

Steves work is exceptional and you should be proud to have his work on your machine.

I restored a Triple Strike and he didn't have the glass at that time so I sent him mine. It came out fantastic, didn't it?

I've had the chance to see some BGResto backglasses in person. Excellent product for the price you are paying. If you really want original looking expect the price to be astronomical unless hundreds are being made and sold. I can speak from experience with the ball arch reproductions I'm doing. One of the highest costs associated in that project is the silk screening since each color needs it own seperate screen and film positive ($$) plus mixing the custom inks ($$) and then the cost to setup and register each color over each other ($$), licensing rights, etc... It's not that it can't be done since I'm proof it can in pinball, but it's more a matter of economics and time. Trust me neither myself or BGResto are making much money doing this otherwise there would be a lot of other places doing this.

To me, the color looks off, but not nearly as much as the color swatches someone posted shortly after! If I see a glass, or plastics and I think they look kind of off, I'm just glad it's a hell of a lot better than a blown out crappy one. Also if you put it in the game, after a couple days to weeks, you get used to it, and it looks perfectly fine! Just don't be too picky, most of the repros are spot on, but sometimes it's hard to get it perfect! I'm just glad there are people out there willing to put in the work to help us out. It's not for the money, no one's getting rich from this, it's for the love of the game! Now get out there and win one for the Flipper!

Tom

I felt like a little kid on Christmas day opening my new back glass I found sitting on my front porch this afternoon....Thanks Steven, it looks great and was worth the wait. I would do it again in a heart beat.

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Yes it did. Thanks to you dealing with him first I received mine in about two months. Triple Strike is a very challenging game especially on ball five. John

Steve made a repro for me and it should be 2 months to do
Turned out 8 months cause the man is a perfectionist and I a appreciate that.

The work is fantastic , the wait is not.
Patience is a virtue !!

Thanks again Steve for doing such amazing job!! Ones I bill up some patience again will send you my next one

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