Backglass delamination sealing?

(Topic ID: 197911)

Backglass delamination sealing?


By PinballFever

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 67 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by ajfclark
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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There are 67 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 1 year ago

The bubbles seem to be between the triple thick and glass/paint. I need to flatten them and sticking a needle in to release the air seems to be doing the trick. The bubbles are soft. Not brittle or breakable (yet). Will they become brittle in time? I think I need to do this while they're soft before it's fully cured.

Do they go down by themselves? I kind of doubt they do.

I'm also thinking of covering them with wrap and putting something like a book on them to keep them flat.

First photo shows the bubbles and second photo shows three bubbles I stuck the needle in and was able to flatten.

Bruce

IMG_20171114_075146727 (resized).jpg

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#52 1 year ago

Hmm...I don't think I've ever encountered that before.

#53 1 year ago

I stuck a needle in all the bubbles I could find and flattened them.

I'm thinking of putting wrap on after work today and putting books on to make sure they're all flat before I spray a couple more coats. Is there a chance of the wrap sticking to the TT or will it come off easily now? What do you think about the book idea?

Thanks,
Bruce

#54 1 year ago

The bubbles were from air trapped under the wrap. I've punctured and flattened them.

One last area I overlooked that's still a problem. (It's hard to see where the bad areas are after the wrap is down.)

That area in this photo is covered with TT but the flakes are still the same.I'm thinking of putting down wrap and putting something flat like a book to flatten them for a day before spraying a couple thick coats to seal it for good.

Bruce

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#55 1 year ago

The TT bubbles were because air was trapped underneath the wrap. I first tried gently pressing one of them down while they were soft and saw a bit of paint pulled so I carefully punctured the bubbles with a needle to release the air then tamped them flat.

If you lift the wrap ANYWHERE after it *touches* the wet triple thick, the paint will peel RIGHT off with the TT/wrap. Fortunately it was at the edge of the glass and I was able to tamp that paint back down successfully.

There was very little loss of paint or damage after doing all this and it seems the TT/paint is stable/sealed at this time. Almost all the damage and loss you see was already there before I triple thicked the glass.

I plan to spray a couple more heavier coats this weekend to seal it for good.

Bruce

First photo shows the current state of my backglass and the second photo shows it before triple thick was applied.

IMG_20171115_192659893 (resized).jpg

20170805_114208 (resized).jpg

#56 1 year ago

Almost looks like a super thick layer was sprayed down (which softened original paint), then had plastic wrap smashed ontop of it and pulled back off; causing the softened original paint to pull up off the glass leaving new bubbles and mess. No?

#57 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Hmm...I don't think I've ever encountered that before.

I've done a couple woodrail/prewar BGs and I did notice one time that the TT softened that black mask. It was like the solvents kind of reactivated it. I left if be and once fully cured seemed to be ok.

I only found out it softened the original paint because I was spraying outside and a small bug got stuck on glass. I used a blade point to carefully lift the bug (should have just left it in) and when I barely touched black, I noticed it was smeary. Luckily it was a tiny spot and I left it be after that.

The next time I used TT on a BG of that era, I did a couple light sprays to hold lose paint, did a couple medium coats to seal it all, then left it alone to cure for a couple days. No problems.

As far as how to address large paint bubbles that are there to start with...well, I don't have any better an answer. Mine were kind of already flaky, so I sprayed to keep it from getting worse as best I could.

Have had bubbles on a couple more modern BG and I didn't pop or flatten them. I sprayed over them which means they won't flake off, but if you pressed them, they would probably crumble. Does concern me leaving a bubble like that as I have wondered if the bubble could get bigger without being stuck to glass (as mentioned), or...is the TT over entire glass ridged enough to keep paint together even not stuck to glass....

Mostly, I think EVERY case is different :/

#58 1 year ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

Almost looks like a super thick layer was sprayed down (which softened original paint), then had plastic wrap smashed ontop of it and pulled back off; causing the softened original paint to pull up off the glass leaving new bubbles and mess. No?

No. It was actually a couple thin wet coats of triple thick. The wrap with the bubbles underneath it was never pulled back off once applied until 24 hours later. I think the air bubbles became embedded in the triple thick like ForceFlow asked.

Quoted from pacmanretro:

As far as how to address large paint bubbles that are there to start with...well, I don't have any better an answer. Mine were kind of already flaky, so I sprayed to keep it from getting worse as best I could.

There weren't paint bubbles to start with. These were air pockets accidentally trapped underneath the first sheet of wrap that I applied to the top half causing the bubbles. The second sheet of wrap was successfully applied over the bottom half of the glass without air bubbles under it.

Quoted from pacmanretro:

Have had bubbles on a couple more modern BG and I didn't pop or flatten them. I sprayed over them which means they won't flake off, but if you pressed them, they would probably crumble. Does concern me leaving a bubble like that as I have wondered if the bubble could get bigger without being stuck to glass

I was concerned about that too. I wanted to flatten them while they were soft before they became brittle. They're flat now as you can see.

My next plan is to spray a couple more coats to fill in the ridges and depressions. I think that should seal it for good.

Bruce

#59 1 year ago

Interesting...I wonder if the air pocket between the paint and wrap traped some fumes. Maybe that caused paint to soften and come up like that.

Very strange.

Best wishes on the final outcome, sincerely. I know how frustrated and nervous working on those older/rarer glasses can be...

#60 1 year ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

Interesting...I wonder if the air pocket between the paint and wrap traped some fumes. Maybe that caused paint to soften and come up like that.

The thin bubble films looked clear with the paint still flat on the glass that I could see. Look at the closeup photo of the bubbles. It is possible the paint formed bubbles but it didn't look that way to me.

Quoted from pacmanretro:

Best wishes on the final outcome, sincerely. I know how frustrated and nervous working on those older/rarer glasses can be...

Thanks. I think it could have been much worse. It's all flat and stays down with a thin film of cured triple thick over it with almost no paint loss or damage. I can touch it anywhere and it stays. There may be issues in the future after this but the alternative was to leave it as is with the paint peeling, cracking and falling off...

Bruce

#61 1 year ago

I was planning to spray a couple more coats and took "before" photos at an angle for comparison "after" photos at the same angle but it's too cold to spray at this time. I'll post the "after" photos when it's warm enough to spray again.

The wrinkles are from when I tamped down the wrap all over the glass so I wouldn't miss a spot.

Bruce

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4 months later
#62 10 months ago

Spring is coming! I'm planning to repair this backglass which I'll start a new topic for.

In the meantime here is a photo of the glass lit up BEFORE I removed it from the backbox for TTing. The damage was quite extensive but the artwork was still good which makes me think a repair CAN be done. (You can see the lightboard showing through the damaged sections. When get a chance I plan to take photos of the same areas lit up for comparison)

As a gallery artist turned tech support (which paid much better), I have an eye for color matching. My plan is to repair the damaged sections with waterslide decals then lay the finishing coats of TT to smooth the wrinkles and ridges out.

Spring is coming! (at least it is coming here!)
Bruce

1953 GC BG lit up (resized).jpg

#63 10 months ago

You might want to test spray some Triple Thick over a water slide decal on a clean piece of glass first. The decal material may react with the solvents in the Triple Thick and ruin your work.

#64 10 months ago

Thanks for the suggestion. Will do that before I start the repair.

1 month later
#65 9 months ago

The Sky Jump I had had some bad peeling in one corner:
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It's already been triple thicked to lock down what's still there, but unfortunately it's really visible when the machine is in 5 ball mode:
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Any ideas on what I could do to make it less noticable?

#66 9 months ago

That sure looks nasty. Are you saying that the corner has been triple thicked with the peeled sections left in the 'up position' in which case they are quite hard or inflexible-and that glad wrap was not used to lock down the peeled sections as part of the triple thick process. If that is the case that seems a tough one to resolve if I am interpreting the pic correctly. I am also not clear whether the darker sections mask a touchup or are blank & may lead to touchup.

#67 9 months ago
Quoted from wayner:

That sure looks nasty. Are you saying that the corner has been triple thicked with the peeled sections left in the 'up position' in which case they are quite hard or inflexible-and that glad wrap was not used to lock down the peeled sections as part of the triple thick process. If that is the case that seems a tough one to resolve if I am interpreting the pic correctly. I am also not clear whether the darker sections mask a touchup or are blank & may lead to touchup.

The first picture was pre-krylon. The whole glass has been coated and gladwrap was used to flatten the flakes:
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Didn't come out as smooth as I would've liked, but I didn't dare clean it at all as there were large portions cracking and delaminating across the whole glass.

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