(Topic ID: 76385)

Backbox warning revisited

By sc204

10 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 12 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by wspy
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 10 years ago

I am doing a restoration on a STTNG and the head required repainting. Cabinet is in real nice shape but the head had the typical scrapes to the sides, top and bottom, (doorways I guess). I did a search on redoing the backbox warning. The best answer certainly seems to be silk screen (and also the quickest assuming you already have the supplies). Appears to be the way the factory did it. Unfortunately screens and supplies can be pretty expensive especially if you are only planning to use it once or twice. Most of the reports about trying to use stencils were pretty negative. I own a hobby grade vinyl cutter that I use to make graphics or cut the iron on covering for model airplanes, my other hobby. (reason for the avatar). I have also used it to cut stencils for painting on fiberglass portions of the aircraft with pretty good results.

After doing a search for the file, 2 pinside members came up swinks and Big_Bob both of whom sent me files to play with. Thanks guys.

I made a small section of the file to test it. I have 2 different spray mask materials one with a low tack and the other more normal tack. I experimented with both of them on both a rough surface (smooth ply sprayed black) and a smooth surface, primed and sanded ply sprayed black.

The first image are the masks applied to the wood. The white one on the left is the low tack and the clear bluish one the higher tack.
stencils-2000.jpgstencils-2000.jpg

I have to admit that my first attempt using rustoleum yellow didn't work. The paint was too elastic and tore off with the stencil
I then tried the same paint I use for my model airplanes a water based acrylic, Auto air colors. The only issue is that you have to spray a coat of white before the color. The paints are easy to use using a heat gun to dry each coat. Doesn't take long at all to apply.
stencils painted-2000.jpgstencils painted-2000.jpg

This is the result of the low tack stencil on the rough surface. Definitely some creep of the base coat white.
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The higher tack mask did OK on the rough ply.
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On the smoth surface results were similar although the mask affected the satin black base. Not sure if it was the paint or because it was only 24 hrs old.
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Now I have to tell you that even painting this small area was a ridiculous amount of work to first weed the stencil, transfer it to the wood and then remove it after painting. Letters like A were a real pain in the ass.

Finally I tried using the cutter as it was intended. How about a vinyl lettered back box warning? I had white not yellow but you get the idea. Definitely the quickest of the non silk screen choices.
vinyl letters-2000.jpgvinyl letters-2000.jpg
vinyl results-2000.jpgvinyl results-2000.jpg

Stuart

#2 10 years ago

I think it turned out nice especially the finish on the white version

#3 10 years ago

Don't know where you heard negative stuff about the screens, I've used them quite a bit.

#4 10 years ago
Quoted from WeirPinball:

Don't know where you heard negative stuff about the screens, I've used them quite a bit.

I said what I read about using stencils were pretty negative

#5 10 years ago
Quoted from swinks:

I think it turned out nice especially the finish on the white version

The white is just vinyl. Could be an issue that if you scrape the lettering on the back box you could pull some letters off instead of just scratching the paint

#6 10 years ago
Quoted from sc204:

I said what I read about using stencils were pretty negative

Ah, yes I'd say your stencil work is much nicer.

1 week later
#7 10 years ago

I make aluminum framed screens for both the warning and patent portions. If they are properly cleaned after each use they should last a lifetime. Unlike wooden framed ones they won't lose tension either. That said I think you're vinyl looks pretty decent, but I've heard similar problems of paint pulling with spray paint.

#8 10 years ago

Not trying for an argument and I have very little knowledge of silk screen products, but I did contact several companies on line that sell them and make frames. This is part of the conversation I had with one.

unfortunately the emulsion slowly dries over time and becomes brittle .. so to expect more than 12 months on the shelf may be pushing your limits

My follow up question Thank you for the information. I do not know much about silk screening, is there an emulsion that lasts longer? is it different for water based inks? Would that work for my purposes?
Sorry for the questions,
Stuart

His response: no , unfortunately not.... all of the manufacturers are constantly trying to extent the shelf life of exposed emulsions.. but being that it is catalyzed by uv rays it starts a natural decay process that doesn't stabilize.. 10 years ago we were good to get them to last 60 days on the shelf... so it has improved!!

Hopefully your experience is different but that is the information I received.

#9 10 years ago
Quoted from sc204:

Not trying for an argument and I have very little knowledge of silk screen products, but I did contact several companies on line that sell them and make frames. This is part of the conversation I had with one.
unfortunately the emulsion slowly dries over time and becomes brittle .. so to expect more than 12 months on the shelf may be pushing your limits
My follow up question Thank you for the information. I do not know much about silk screening, is there an emulsion that lasts longer? is it different for water based inks? Would that work for my purposes?
Sorry for the questions,
Stuart
His response: no , unfortunately not.... all of the manufacturers are constantly trying to extent the shelf life of exposed emulsions.. but being that it is catalyzed by uv rays it starts a natural decay process that doesn't stabilize.. 10 years ago we were good to get them to last 60 days on the shelf... so it has improved!!
Hopefully your experience is different but that is the information I received.

Stuart, interesting because I haven't heard that before. Bryan Kelly has been using the same screen for years now with no problems. Last time I was up there to look at it the image still looked perfect. Could have something to do with how well he cleans his screen after each use though. He also stores is in a dark dry environment when it's not in use either.

#10 10 years ago
Quoted from merfeldma:

Stuart, interesting because I haven't heard that before. Bryan Kelly has been using the same screen for years now with no problems. Last time I was up there to look at it the image still looked perfect. Could have something to do with how well he cleans his screen after each use though. He also stores is in a dark dry environment when it's not in use either.

The one I've been using has got to be at least 4 years old and works the same as it did the first time I used it. Like Matt said, I do store it in it's original shipping box.

#11 10 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

The one I've been using has got to be at least 4 years old and works the same as it did the first time I used it. Like Matt said, I do store it in it's original shipping box.

That's good to know. Certainly sounds like UV exposure is bad for them.
And Bryan thank you for some of your threads. I learned a lot from them and they have helped me tackle the STTNG restore currently in progress.

1 year later
#12 9 years ago

Resurrecting this pretty old thead but I figured it could be nice to have all the information at the same place...

I'm running into the same kind of questioning as the OP as I would like to redo a backbox warning decal without investing in a silkscreen kit that I would only use once or twice.

So, another idea I got was to do it using waterslide decals. Anybody ever tried this?

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