(Topic ID: 296237)

Backbox Fan Mystery

By TopMoose

2 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 47 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by TopMoose
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 2 years ago

Tech folks and Baywatch owners, I could use some help. Here's the journey so far:

I've noticed that my Baywatch gets a little sluggish after about 30 minutes of play. By the end of a game, pops have less pop, the side kicker sometimes doesn't launch the ball all the way around the orbit and the flippers have a hard time getting the ball up the ramps. I opened the backbox to investigate and noticed the two fans mounted at the vent holes the backbox. If they're not working, the issue might be overheating components!

20210704_154236_resized (resized).jpg20210704_154236_resized (resized).jpg

I did a test game with the backbox door open and during play and they only spun when the pops were active. The smaller fan would give a few spins but the larger one would only just nudge a little bit with each pop. Next, I did a coil test and discovered that the fans are attached to Coil 15 - a port that's listed as "Unused" but also activates the after-market shaker motor, which is attached to the pop switches. There's no mention of fans or their wiring anywhere in the manual or schematics.

So my questions are:

1. Did Baywatch initially come with two fans or were they added in later? Maybe they were part of the shaker motor kit for some reason?

2. If you have a Baywatch with a fan (or two) when are they supposed to spin?

3. If the fans are, in fact, factory standard, how should they be wired to the CPU or the PPB?

Thanks in advance!

#3 2 years ago

Interesting. Do you think taking them out would improve my overheating issues? Or is there a way to get them to spin more frequently?

#6 2 years ago

I know, right?

All I know is that the game (specifically the coils) gets sluggish after about 30 minutes of play. If I leave it off for a day or more, it plays great when I turn it back on.

I thought that if the fans weren’t working right, the PPB might be getting overheated, but they’re not supposed to be there. Could they be draining power? Or blocking the vents?

#11 2 years ago

I went ahead and disconnected both fans. I removed the smaller one but the wiring on the big one is a bit more complicated. I’ll give it a day to rest and try it out to see if there’s any change.

Quoted from ArcadeUpkeep:

Is it just me or does the one on the right look an awful lot like the prop on the plane in Tommy?

Y’know what? Now that I’ve taken it out and had a close look, that’s exactly what it is.

#17 2 years ago

Here's all the stuff I removed from the backbox:

20210705_150347_resized (resized).jpg20210705_150347_resized (resized).jpg

I presume that that the relay board is also pulled from a Tommy. After taking this out, I unplugged the shaker motor and played a test game. It did seem like the coils had a little bit more energy and kept it for a longer duration, but the game is still feeling a little bit sluggish after the first Earthquake. I'll give it a longer break and try again on Wednesday.

Quoted from aeneas:

Was the game made for the USA or another country (like Japan ??)

I'm not sure of this machine's full history, but it does have this label on the backbox light panel. I don't know if this is standard or if it's evidence of a re-import.

20210705_150057_resized (resized).jpg20210705_150057_resized (resized).jpg

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from aeneas:

Honestly, it may be factory installed then.
I remember reading somewhere that the first game exported to Japan was Data Easts Tommy. As that had 3 motors, it got electronics certification for pinball machine containing 3 motors.
For games exported after that, it was cheaper to add extra motors than get a new certification.

That's very interesting and I'm glad to hear that the fans might not be some crazy hack after all. I ended up clipping the wires on the big fan because it was tethered to an elaborate series of diodes that connect back to the more vital parts of the game. Maybe a bit more evidence that it was engineered by Sega, rather than added later by an owner?

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from aeneas:

Here's a post from 2002 explaining the motors for Japan:
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.games.pinball/c/IZLLYlpR3Ts/m/DRuoWrELyWIJ
(and after reading this - does your game has a shaker motor too ?
As your game has a label with Japanese markings on it and original Data East motors, that seems enough proof ?
Check the label with serial number too if it has an indication of country (inside cabinet, right side, or outer backside of cabinet).
Just look at it, all the wiring looks original too.
If an operator were to add this as a hack, they would use cheaper motors (cpu fans that cost $10; not a complete Tommy motor that costs like $100), and would just hack it together with speaker wire or other electrical wiring laying around and solder it on somewhere, he would definitely not do all the trouble of finding and continuing the original colored wiring and use the correct type of molex connectors. (Unless you're someone like HEP who has all the correct colored wiring laying around, but there are not many people in the world who have.)
I think you can be 99 percent sure the machine left the factory like this with additional motors installed.

I do have a shaker motor! And it appears to be factory installed, with correct color wiring, like you say. The mystery has taken me deeper than I thought.

Quoted from G-P-E:

Do check the jumper wiring as mentioned by Roamin. It is possible that the transformer could still be jumpered for Japanese voltages which could account for weak flippers, kickers, etc.

I’ll check this today, but I’m not sure what to look for. Is there a dipswitch or alternate plug in the cabinet?

#24 2 years ago

A little bit of online research shows that the motor on the big fan was also used on Tommy and later on Tales From the Crypt and Austin Powers.

#25 2 years ago

Here's what I'm looking at in the lower cabinet. Does the transformer look correct? It reads:

"115/230 50/60 Hz"

20210706_170958_resized_1 (resized).jpg20210706_170958_resized_1 (resized).jpg

#27 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

You need to get a meter out and check the voltage.

Where do you recommend I attach the multimeter nodes?

#29 2 years ago
Quoted from Roamin:

You're actually interested in looking at those 2 black wires at the end of the connector.
The 1st (black, wire #1) wire from the transformer should be connected to the LIVE wire of the 110v line.
The 2nd (black , wire #2) wire from the transformer should be jumped to the 5th wire (wire #3) by one of the black wires.
The 4th (orange, wire #9) wire from the transformer should be jumped to the 8th (white orange, wire #8) wire.
The 9th (wire #7) wire from the transformer should be connected to NEUTRAL of the 110v line.
Post a few pictures of the connector up close if you need help to figure it out.
[quoted image]

What you've described is exactly how my wiring looks. Is that the set up for 110v?

#31 2 years ago

Well that's... ominous.

20210707_183157_resized (resized).jpg20210707_183157_resized (resized).jpg

#32 2 years ago

But seriously, I’m 50v too low. I’ve checked it several times in two different outlets. Any ideas for the next thing to check?

#35 2 years ago

From the outlet, the power cord goes into the cabinet and straight to the power box at the front of the game, under the launch button. Here's what it looks like when I open it up:

20210709_170200_resized (resized).jpg20210709_170200_resized (resized).jpg

Power goes to a fuse, the service outlet and a line filter(?), which leads to the cabinet switch. Here's a closer shot of the filter.

20210709_171610_resized (resized).jpg20210709_171610_resized (resized).jpg

The power switch has wires that go back out into the cabinet and are spliced directly to the transformer leads (gray and yellow). Here's what that looks like:

20210709_180311_resized_1 (resized).jpg20210709_180311_resized_1 (resized).jpg

20210709_180404_resized_1 (resized).jpg20210709_180404_resized_1 (resized).jpg

20210709_180418_resized_1 (resized).jpg20210709_180418_resized_1 (resized).jpg

Unfortunately, I'm not able to get a multimeter reading on anything before the transformer lead wires - my device goes all screwey and gives weird non-numerical readouts.

Does any of this help answer questions?

#37 2 years ago

Here's what I'm looking at when I test the wall outlet and the service plug inside the machine.
The red plug is in the "V(Omega)" port and goes to the short slot. The black plug is in the "COM" port and goes to the long slot. The multimeter is set to 200V AC and this is the readout I get:

20210709_200300_resized (resized).jpg20210709_200300_resized (resized).jpg

Clearly, I'm doing something wrong.

#40 2 years ago

I got a new multimeter tonight. The wall outlet, service outlet and jumper input all read between 150 and 151 on the new device.

I’ll be contacting my power company first thing on Monday to get a technician out. And about how they’ve apparently been cheating me for years.

#42 2 years ago
Quoted from JayDee:

The outlet in the wall reads 150v?

Yes, throughout the house. I think the power company has been gouging me.

#45 2 years ago
Quoted from Markharris2000:

I am 99.99999% confident your meter is set or calibrated wrong. It is NOT possible that you are receiving 150VAC MAINS in Cincinnati, Ohio.

Yeah, I’m a big dum dum and this new multimeter is a little different from my old one. I had it set to amps, rather than volts. It’s measuring 120 volts from the wall outlet, service outlet and transformer leads.

#47 2 years ago

Anyhoo, what’s the next place to check? Probably a capacitor on the Power board or the PPB?

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