(Topic ID: 280498)

Back glass flaking disaster

By Geofflove

11 months ago


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  • 27 posts
  • 17 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by PinballAir
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    #1 11 months ago

    So I recently picked up a Spanish eyes with a really nice backglass. There was just one small part where there was a tiny bit of flaking. The rest was sound. To treat the flaking part I used triple thick and thought I’d seal the whole glass while I was at it as insurance.
    All went well.
    4 weeks later I noticed this. Bubbly flaking! What on earth has happened. So upset with this!

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    #2 11 months ago

    I had similar happen on my Flipper Parade BG; thought I was going to be sick. Also on a formerly pristine Fun-Fest. And although I did six others and they came out well I've stopped doing it.

    #3 11 months ago

    That sucks. I hate when stuff like that happens. Only time will heal the pain.

    #4 11 months ago

    I think the formula for triple thick has been changed.
    I still use it but only in "must save" situations.

    Years ago i did glasses as a way to prevent flaking. I found out that if they got cold they peeled in sheets.
    My strategy now is only of its a gonner anyway.

    #5 11 months ago

    Did you use krylon triple thick, or rustoleum triple thick? I know rustoleum has issues.

    The temperature and humidity also play a factor.

    #6 11 months ago

    It was the krylon stuff. It has been in a cold room so maybe that’s it. It’s now staying in the warm so I’ll see if it settles down. Fingers crossed it gets no worse. I did One before to save it as it was pretty bad and it worked well so thought this was a zero risk insurance. I’ll think again in future!

    #7 11 months ago

    I have some questions about this:

    1) Did you spray the Triple Thick on horizontally, nice and thick, in warm, low-humidity weather?

    2) Are you 100% certain that the paint wasn't also lifting in those areas to begin with, even if it hadn't yet flaked off? Because you could just be seeing old damage that you didn't notice at first, perhaps because the Triple Thick moved the loose areas a bit?

    3) Did you use Krylon brand Triple Thick?

    Thanks

    #8 11 months ago

    I think it is funny how some glasses lift and others do not. My shop was in a barn. For about a 10 years my 6 million dollar man was in that barn. It got to below zero in there more than once and now years later, that naked glass is still awesome. (No TT)
    I had others that didnt last a month in there. (With TT)
    As i said, i have had some really good results with triple thick but whether it was the glass or the TT i have also had some failures.

    #9 11 months ago

    This is exactly the reason why I stopped using Triple Thick years ago. Sometimes it works. Sometimes this happens.

    Many. many years ago Steve Young sold something called Cover-Your-Glass. Does anyone else remember it? He took a lot of flack because apparently it didn't hold up well in cold temperatures. If I remember right, it occurred during shipment on airplanes, where I guess it gets pretty cold.

    Ironically I put it on 5 or 6 machines that have been stored in an unheated garage (with below zero winter days) for 20 years and they all look as good as the day I applied it. I wish he still sold it.

    #10 11 months ago

    I'm not convinced any more that a lot of coats of TT is good. Nor any heavy coats.
    After a "ink melting" disaster on one BG using TT with a somewhat normal slow first coat I have switched to a light quick mist for the first coat.
    After dry I add another light coat at 90 degrees orientation.

    Just a light spray sealing job is all I do now.
    Your problem may have been some puddling of TT in areas that did some ink melting.
    Some ink is more robust than others, you can't tell beforehand. Just after you mess it up!

    Alan

    #11 11 months ago

    Over the past 20 years, i’ve probably sprayed 20 glasses with Krylon triple thick. Some glasses were much worse than others as far as flaking goes. I always used to do three light coats, and let each coat dry thoroughly. I have never had any sort of adhesion problem or long-term problem arise from coating them. The only thing I will say is that I never sprayed them in temperatures less than about 60°. I guess your mileage varies.

    #12 11 months ago

    I've never had an issue with TT ruining my glasses, as they were bad glasses to begin with. TT only made the glasses better or stopped things from getting worse. I always apply a light coat first (or the flakes will blow away). Sometimes I apply only a few light coats. If there is bubbling, I lay the TT on thick to soften and weigh down the area, usually making the bubbles disappear. My games reside in climate controlled rooms after they are TT'd.

    #13 11 months ago
    Quoted from Wmsfan:

    Over the past 20 years, i’ve probably sprayed 20 glasses with Krylon triple thick. Some glasses were much worse than others as far as flaking goes. I always used to do three light coats, and let each coat dry thoroughly. I have never had any sort of adhesion problem or long-term problem arise from coding them. The only thing I will say is that I never sprayed them and temperature is less than about 60°. I guess your mileage varies.

    Agree. I've done many backglasses with Triple Thick, but I always apply it outdoors on a very warm and dry day in direct sunlight. The faster it dries, the better. If it's humid, it will come out grainy and milky.
    CYG was bad if left in extreme cold.
    I had a couple that fell apart in cold weather. Didn't know until afterwards that they were sealed with CYG. It used to be the only thing used.

    #14 11 months ago
    Quoted from PinballAir:

    I think it is funny how some glasses lift and others do not. My shop was in a barn. For about a 10 years my 6 million dollar man was in that barn. It got to below zero in there more than once and now years later, that naked glass is still awesome. (No TT)
    I had others that didnt last a month in there. (With TT)
    As i said, i have had some really good results with triple thick but whether it was the glass or the TT i have also had some failures.

    Bally glasses just seem to hold up better. Thicker glass I think so less expansion. I've had a few nice original Gottlieb and Williams glasses over the years. I've only owned a handful of Bally games and more than not had perfect glasses.

    As far as TT goes I've been pretty lucky but quit using it for the most part. Mostly because rarely do I view most games as forever games anymore. They don't generally degrade once in a temperature controlled environment so I will let the next guy decide.

    #15 11 months ago

    I have melted the ink. A 1959 bally monarch comes to mind. In that case it did melt the ink but it looked fabulous for several years.
    I had it at my unheated camp in maine for several years. The glass could have been reproduced from what was left but it was toast after that.

    #16 11 months ago

    I have always used Minwax or similar polyurethane brushed on from a can, using a foam brush. Never actually brush loose paint - only let the urethane drip over the damaged area from 1/4" above the surface. It will self level and cover with minimum disruption to the paint flakes.
    Never had any problems with ink dissolving, damage to the glass, or sheets of paint coming off down the road. Been doing it for more than 20 years now with zero bad effects.

    #17 11 months ago

    I hate it when people TT the clear score display windows instead of masking them off so the stay nice and clear. Folks, please stop doing this.

    I would only TT a glass in the area that needed it, not the whole thing. I would also never do it for protection to nice glass that didn't need it.

    #18 11 months ago

    Yep guess I learnt my lesson from this.
    It was put on in reasonable warm, dry conditions. I did it with the glass laying flat. 3 coats of krylon. All seemed good until a few weeks later. It has been in a cold environment so maybe that’s the prob this time.
    Anyway, not much I can do now but hope it stabilises and doesn’t get worse. I’ll not be doing it again unless necessary.

    #19 11 months ago
    Quoted from bayoubilly70:

    I hate it when people TT the clear score display windows instead of masking them off so the stay nice and clear. Folks, please stop doing this.
    I would only TT a glass in the area that needed it, not the whole thing. I would also never do it for protection to nice glass that didn't need it.

    Actually, I have a good technique for clearing the windows. Just spray it extra thick on the windows, and it cures clear. If it doesn't flow perfectly flat, you can knock it down with novus 2/3.

    #20 11 months ago
    Quoted from bayoubilly70:

    I hate it when people TT the clear score display windows

    I use a small single edge razor to remove it. Scribe cut the outline then scrape it off with the razor. Peels right off.

    #21 11 months ago

    I generally spray the windows with the hope it will help hold down the rest.
    I too spray them heavy and it is difficult to tell they are sprayed.

    #22 11 months ago

    Multiple thin coats is the way to go. I tape windows with masking tape and use a razor blade to carefully clean up any bleed. I’ve probably been successful doing this around 30 times, no disasters yet.

    #23 11 months ago

    I spray over the windows, then scrape it back after it drys, leaving 2mm all the way around the edge

    That way it's sealed to the edge.

    Also, I only spray backglasses that are starting to peel. If it's been solid for 40 years, it's probably good forever.

    #24 11 months ago

    Welcome back sir.

    #25 11 months ago
    Quoted from PinballAir:

    Welcome back sir

    I was just going to say that. You beat me to it.

    #26 11 months ago

    Personally, I don't like the visible edge that is left behind when masking or scraping. So I just spray over the windows.

    #27 11 months ago

    I have found that even when i score the finish on the windows there is always that one spot that takes some of the ink with it.

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