(Topic ID: 74931)

Back Alley WOZ mods for sale!!!


By BackAlleyMatt

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 348 posts
  • 102 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by nitrojcrawf
  • Topic is favorited by 25 Pinsiders

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There are 348 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 7.
#251 5 years ago
Quoted from GAP:

Personally, I'll take Matt's wall WOZ mod over the other wall mod. The other wall mod for $100.00 looks horrible for the $$$$ . Yeah cheaper, but they look cheaply made and constructed. Reminds me of the dough you use to make as a kid, bake it , paint it and breaks 20 minutes later. The other mod doesn't look crisp, too many ragged edges and paint job is blah to white and black, doesn't look aged.
Do a side by side comparison of the quality. They always say you get what you pay for. I'm happy to pay the higher price for a top quality product which will enhance my game, not devalue it.
And the witch in the bird cage mod, I don't get that. Was that in the movie? If you don't like the acrylic tube just remove it and buy extra witches to replace when broken.
Again, Matt's mods are licensed, they are going on the 75th Anniversary. I want the same mods on my game that are going on the 75th Anniversary. Also Matt sculpted all the mods in the WOZ so it makes sense to go with these additional mods.

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Thanks very much for this. I didn't want to be the one to say it. Must...remain...civil...

#252 5 years ago

Being a machinist/model maker myself, I really admire what Matt has created. IMO, it looks like some very nicely done work. I've been a one man prototype shop for 25 years. Quality costs $$$.

I'm in.

#253 5 years ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

OK, well, do you know how the "interacting with the ball at both ends" works?

No, I don't know the second interacting piece...

#254 5 years ago

they really look nice ....but at 225.00 I'm out..

#255 5 years ago

I stopped by Matt's today and of course I checked out some of the mods. I cannot iterate enough how awesome these are. I agree with GAP, I want the original artist's work in my machine. In the very beginning like most people I didn't really think I would have any interest in ToTo in a basket but after seeing it in person, I'm sold!

And anybody questioning Matt's work on the Hobbit, don't be nervous he is a professional and you can view his work on his website. I saw a side project he is working on as a gift for someone and let's just say it's nothing less then stellar. It's a handmade sculpted model of Alecia Crowley and it's sweet looking!

Thanks for having me over Matt,

Chris

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#256 5 years ago
Quoted from Jetzxi:

I stopped by Matt's today and of course I checked out some of the mods. I cannot iterate enough how awesome these are. I agree with GAP, I want the original artist's work in my machine. In the very beginning like most people I didn't really think I would have any interest in ToTo in a basket but after seeing it in person, I'm sold!
And anybody questioning Matt's work on the Hobbit, don't be nervous he is a professional and you can view his work on his website. I saw a side project he is working on as a gift for someone and let's just say it's nothing less then stellar. It's a handmade sculpted model of Alecia Crowley and it's sweet looking!
Thanks for having me over Matt,
Chris

I'm sure they look nice. But at the end of the day ... they're frickin' plastic WALLS. $225 for a few static plastic walls? If a few nice walls will make the game that much more enjoyable for you then go for it (especially if that's not much money to you.) I just bought Sony's latest W-series 20MP digital camera for $248. Spend your money how you want.

As for Hobbit ... that's great .. but I still see nothing on his website where he created a custom figure/bust of some character with incredible detail that blew me away (or even close). The coolest custom piece I see is the "coming soon" T-Rex for Jusassic Park (that has been "coming soon" for more than a year) and I don't think Matt is the artist who created it? I know Matt is a great guy ... but I would just like to see more than the few modest decorative pieces I see on his site. Please show me the best example you can think of, of a custom bust/model of a character he created previously.

#257 5 years ago

I ordered mine ... yes, the price is rough. But it seems that this walls are handcrafted and professionel. They look great and are a "must have". The twister is also nice, Toto .. okay ... its in the bundle and fits the theme ...
I payed a hell lot of money for my first NIB pin. So the mods pricing is okay, many people will earn on that.
I got an Emerald City as a present from a other pinhead, plastic protectors are installed, my trees will become lighted, the mods from Matt and the wizard is done.
I am looking forward for my box shipped to Germany.

#258 5 years ago

double post ..

#259 5 years ago

They are cool and I wish the best to Matt and hope he sells a ton. I already got the other set and Im gonna install them and see how they look on my game. If I dont like them I will just take them off and move on with it. I also got the Cage and think it looks really cool I may actually custom paint my witch and do some hair and cape. I also like the light up Winkie Guard and the light up Tornado from another pinsider. I get what some people are saying with Going with BAC as they did the original pieces for the game and they feel it will keep there game Valued higher but I dont really see how a Mod that is done by someone else would devalue a game? Dont we use Hallmark Ornaments as Mods? TZ robots, Toy police cars on Getaway, Custom built spinning Tiger Saw's on Theatre of Magic, LotR Eye Mods etc? What if Game designers like Jpop decided to make a Tiger Saw that spun and Said this is the Idea I had originally for the game and its 500.00 would we think now my game is devalued because I dont have that one I have the one someone else made. I really dont get this type of thinking, Nobody has to love or hate the Mods I put on my game because its MY game,but I gotta disagree that it Devalues my game!!! I was thinking about purchasing Matts set as well but 225.00 is a bit to steep for me, Im sure he will sell a ton and I think they look fantastic.

Ok so here is the big Question that nobody has asked yet, What about the 75th Year Topper? Thats what I really want, I figured since the Walls and Toto and the Twister were all announced with the 75th edition and JJP did Say the Topper would also be for sale, is that still coming and How Much Is It Gonna Be?

Joe(acejedi)

#260 5 years ago

It takes a lot of time to sculpt things, especially when they are as nicely done as what Matt does. Resin, even in bulk, is not uber cheap. Casting all of these, and especially the painting process would be a lot of work for each set too I imagine. Then there are the brackets that need to be fitted and created.

Sometimes it's easy to look at the toys your kids have and wonder why pinball mods have to be so expensive, but when you consider the much smaller niche run, and the better quality, anyone that has tinkered in any of this stuff knows how much time and money actually does go into these things.

How much is the TZ piano? How much for a custom shooter rod? How much for all those other stationary mods you have bought? If you fit into this category, you might now imagine now why a 5 piece custom set off walls may not be cranked out at $50.

I recently considered trying to make a mod which I think would look great, but after figuring out all the costs involved just to cast and mold the damn thing, the time to sculpt and do other stuff, and the likely pricey tag I would assume would be accepted - seemed like exercise in frustration for me.

If I had this machine (one day I will I'm sure), given the upgrade value in appearance, I would not hesitate to buy.

#261 5 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

If each one is truly 'hand made' then I strongly suggest BAC invest in a Makerbot or similar production device, or make a mold for them.
But wait, aren't these going on 1000 ruby editions??
I'd love to see the BOM line item for these on the ruby red edition. Couldn't be more than $20 or so for the whole batch.

Yes they are all hand made. Each piece is hand mixed and poured into a mold, deflashed, sanded, pre drilled, epoxied together, hand painted/airbrushed.

Yes these are the same parts that are going into the 75th game.

$20 for it???? hmmmm I have more then that in the raw resin material, not to mention mold and other parts that go in it. China could not even make them for that amount. Sorry but $20 is way off the BOM on these.

#262 5 years ago

I don't even think you need to respond, Matt. Your pieces are a work of art. High quality art is expensive. If people want mall art they can look elsewhere and save a few bucks.

12
#263 5 years ago
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

On a different note ... I'm a little nervous what Smaug is going to look like for Hobbit. The only characters/figures I've seen Matt do himself are the trees in WOZ (mediocre IMO) and now Toto (which seems to have also gotten a fair amount of criticism.) Did Matt do the witch plastic in WOZ too? That's a pretty underwhelming piece as well. Does anyone know of a detailed figure/character that Matt has done himself that is a better example of his talent??

Yep did the trees
And the Witch, the state fair balloon, the little feet with grass in the house, the castle walls vac form, the munchkin huts vac form, the emerald city topper, the flame pot topper, helped make the Oz head with Greg. And now on the 75th game I made the castle walls 3D adding more walls that are bigger and longer, tornado and Toto. All of these I sculpted.

On predator made the skull, bones and claw......oh and everything on my website is not a store bought piece, everything was a block of wood or clay or raw material that I sculpted and made, with the exception of the ACDC cannon.

Sorry u don't like my work but I can't help but take this personal.
I put a lot of hard work into making everything I do and making it by hand and trying to keep the quality of my product up there. Sorry that it is not up to ur standards and considered mediocre. Everyone has there opinion and I can respect that but I pour a lot of heart into making each of my parts and it's the best I can do.

#264 5 years ago
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

I would think the real effort was in the initial design/creation. Mass manufacturing would be less effort

Mass manufacturing is the same amount of time and making 1, seeing as there all hand made. By this I mean, if 1 part takes 8 hours to make then 100 parts take 800 hours to make. All the parts I make are not made by some machine or some large company that doesn't care about the final product. All my parts are given a lot of attention to detail and quality. The same amount of effort goes into making 1 part as 1000 parts.

#265 5 years ago
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

But Matt was the one to create the look (individual model/pieces) of Smaug, correct?
Also, I was told it was intereactive in TWO ways ... so he must do something else? His tail perhaps?

Yes all the toys on the Hobbit are being created by myself.

#266 5 years ago

Matt,

I'll have your back on this one. I recently made a carving that I molded and will then try making resin copies from (I'm new to the process so I'm slowly learning how the costs add up). The material (Smooth-on) to make the rubber negative mold cost me $150 alone! The resin mix to make copies is at least $25 for two small bottles....and you need more of it for bigger pieces, which is more money.

Then you need to make copies. Then there's the touching up/finishing which Matt mentioned. This is A LOT of work, and takes a considerable amount of money and time. Oh, don't forget waiting times for curing, measuring materials and a lot of refining. I'm repeating Matt's points because he's right.

It may look easy to make for many of you, but it's MUCH harder than it looks and it's not cheap! It's not like stamping out Christmas cookies and dashing sprinkles and icing on them. You're doing it the right way, Matt. Carry on.

#267 5 years ago

Ordered mine. Can't wait. Going to install Cliffy's and all the mods at the same time.

#268 5 years ago

Great job Matt! You are a true artist and craftsman and deserve to be proud of your creations.

Jim W.

#269 5 years ago
Quoted from txstargazer3:

Great job Matt! You are a true artist and craftsman and deserve to be proud of your creations.
Jim W.

That^^^^^^^!!! Kinda figured the walls would be higher priced than the others out there ( you could tell by the amount of detail, scope, etc. in the pics)...however, I was one of the first on the site to order a set. Matt has a true passion for his work that is reflected in his products( IMO), and appreciate him being a great guy to deal with.
If you like the mods...buy, if not....don't ...pretty simple. In my industry ( A/V) everyone is an expert...guess what..they're not......Thanks for what you do Matt...you're a pro in your field...mark

#270 5 years ago
Quoted from BackAlleyMatt:

On Predator made the skull, bones and claw......oh and everything on my website is not a store bought piece, everything was a block of wood or clay or raw material that I sculpted and made, with the exception of the ACDC cannon.
Sorry u don't like my work but I can't help but take this personal.
I put a lot of hard work into making everything I do and making it by hand and trying to keep the quality of my product up there. Sorry that it is not up to ur standards and considered mediocre. Everyone has there opinion and I can respect that but I pour a lot of heart into making each of my parts and it's the best I can do.

I thought the Predator skeleton was molded from an actual skeleton? Not hand carved from scratch? Regardless, I can sincerely appreciate your passion for your work and for pinball in general and i know you're a great guy (we've met but I don't think you would remember). I'm just thinking there must be some other materials or manufacturing process that are equally durable but could be mass produced more efficiently to bring your work to the masses that are interested.

Did you hand carve/sculpt the pieces that will be used for Smaug? Can you give any general description (hints) of just how detailed and life-like Smaug will be?

#271 5 years ago

I ordered the full combo pack. I ordered the WOZ plastic when it first came out. I feel like this is how the game was originally designed to look before cost considerations dictated cuts.

#272 5 years ago
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

I thought the Predator skeleton was molded from an actual skeleton?
Did you hand carve/sculpt the pieces that will be used for Smaug? Can you give any general description (hints) of just how detailed and life-like Smaug will be?

Yes the predator side toppers or earings as they have been dub where casted from a real human skeleton, the skull that is in the game under the glass was sculpted from clay by me.

Smaug is sculpted from clay, nothing more I can say on that as it's up to JJP to release info on it.

#273 5 years ago
Quoted from BackAlleyMatt:

Yes the Predator side toppers or earings as they have been dub where casted from a real human skeleton, the skull that is in the game under the glass was sculpted from clay by me.
Smaug is sculpted from clay, nothing more I can say on that as it's up to JJP to release info on it.

Are you also making the Ruby Red topper? If so, will it be for sale when the Ruby Reds start shipping?

#274 5 years ago

I'm surprised at the cost simply by the fact they are production pieces for the 75th version. I'd assume the cost of sculpting and mold making would at least be tied into the cost increase for the 75th. Once the sculpting and mold making is done the BOM had got to go down a considerable bit.

#275 5 years ago

Matt great work! As someone who is in retail and has also sold art I'll remind you that you know the value of your work. You can't make someone see it. Many of us do. Some of these guys are way out of line. If you don't like it then move on. One of my gripes in life, too many people want everything for free!

#276 5 years ago

You know this is getting kind of ugly - this back and forth. In my opinion they both look pretty good. Either one is certainly better than what is on there now. I like having an option, which you don't get very often in mods. I don't have the talent to make something like this so good for them. I hope both guys make a lot of money and then turn their talents to something else, like mods of the tin man, cowardly lion, etc.

#277 5 years ago
Quoted from jamesdeloris:

You know this is getting kind of ugly - this back and forth. In my opinion they both look pretty good. Either one is certainly better than what is on there now.

I think a reality check is just needed for some of the people ragging on the price. Matt is hardly known for gouging for his work.

I applaud anyone making modifications for any machine, whether I personally care for it or not.

#278 5 years ago

Curiously though, both wall styles went with "brick" style castle walls ... but the castle in the movie was smooth stone/concrete with smokey dark shading. Not cinderblock like a medieval castle or something.

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#279 5 years ago

I personally think both are amazing and I applaud both sellers for making them. I went with the cheaper route because I actually like the look better. ( seems more like real stone )

I say charge what you want and let the market decide, I'll most certainly be buying some of Matt's other mods and I just got a package from Mezel mods. I like to support all of the pinball community that spends the time and effort to make such great products!

#280 5 years ago
Quoted from Spencer:

I personally think both are amazing and I applaud both sellers for making them. I went with the cheaper route because I actually like the look better. ( seems more like real stone )
I say charge what you want and let the market decide, I'll most certainly be buying some of Matt's other mods and I just got a package from Mezel mods. I like to support all of the pinball community that spends the time and effort to make such great products!

Well stated.

#281 5 years ago
Quoted from BackAlleyMatt:

Yes they are all hand made. Each piece is hand mixed and poured into a mold, deflashed, sanded, pre drilled, epoxied together, hand painted/airbrushed.
Yes these are the same parts that are going into the 75th game.
$20 for it???? hmmmm I have more then that in the raw resin material, not to mention mold and other parts that go in it. China could not even make them for that amount. Sorry but $20 is way off the BOM on these.

Yea, I guess if you're going to hand-make a couple thousand pieces like that, they'd cost more than $20. Is it not possible to have them manufactured like the stock plastic walls? I really like the way they look, but still way too rich for me. Two thousand walls (ruby games plus sales to ecle owners) is almost a half-million dollars at the asking price, and that doesn't include the other stuff. Just don't see the value... good luck!

#282 5 years ago
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

Curiously though, both wall styles went with "brick" style castle walls ... but the castle in the movie was smooth stone/concrete with smokey dark shading. Not cinderblock like a medieval castle or something.

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I wonder if they thought that ribbed design would be too difficult to replicate because of the lack of depth they have to work with? Would be cool though is someone gave it a shot!!

#283 5 years ago
Quoted from coasterguy:

One of my gripes in life, too many people want everything for free!

They sure do! And they take, take, take and will sell it to make the money you should of made.EFF that!

Keep charging what you want Matt.....the quality stands on it's own.

#284 5 years ago
Quoted from Chippewa-Pin:

Are you also making the Ruby Red topper?

No not made by me

#285 5 years ago
Quoted from jamesdeloris:

You know this is getting kind of ugly - this back and forth. In my opinion they both look pretty good. Either one is certainly better than what is on there now. I like having an option, which you don't get very often in mods. I don't have the talent to make something like this so good for them. I hope both guys make a lot of money and then turn their talents to something else, like mods of the tin man, cowardly lion, etc.

I have a different view. And it is why I posted in this thread to begin with. Pinsiders providing comments here are excellent market data. And it's a voice. As a manufacturer of mods, it would be great to get direct (free) feedback here on who is or isn't buying, why, what they like/dislike, etc. And I think a lot of posts here provide that (with limited statistics, but still varied sentiments). First off, Matt does great work. I love the WOZ trees, think the Spiderman mods were very cool/tasteful, really like the castle walls, etc. And I appreciate that quality product takes time and talent. So I think its helpful to see why some people bought them, why some said no, and what was liked/disliked about the product. Feedback is good.

#286 5 years ago

I was excited to get these walls because I know Matt does great work. However the price is way too high for me. It's just too much to ask.

#287 5 years ago

Excellent Work by Matt @ BAC. After reading the entire post, I must say that the price of these is completely justified.

These are the 100% authentic licensed toys from the 75th edition, that have been released to WOZ owners as upgrades to their existing game. These toys have been carefully sculpted and molded, painted, and engineered to go with WOZ. The toys have been designed to not only enhance the overall beauty of the game, but have been designed to withstand the abuse that may occur in a pinball machine (i.e. the occasional air ball). All the brackets have had to be engineered, and made to exact tolerances for a production game. This means there is a huge amount of quality that had to be put into these toys from day one. The castle walls are 5 Separate pieces that join together seamlessly to create a beautiful enhancement to the playfield. (5 Pieces / $225 = $45 per piece of the castle including production engineered brackets). In the end remember that you get pay for.

I guess I ask this question Do you buy parts for a new Ferrari at Walmart and expect the same quality and results?

Hats off Matt.

#288 5 years ago
Quoted from nwiryan:

I guess I ask this question Do you buy parts for a new Ferrari at Walmart and expect the same quality and results?

That was not very nice.

#289 5 years ago

I wouldn't expect good results from a Ferrari to begin with.

#290 5 years ago

A fool(s) and their money are soon parted.

#291 5 years ago

Kinda like putting spinners on a Maserati........

#292 5 years ago

The problem is that the insides of pinball machines are NOT the place for hand-made, custom pieces of art that are expensive and time consuming to produce. At $225, the walls alone are almost 3% of the retail of the entire 8K machine. These are pinball parts, on the BOM with a part number, like every other screw and bracket and whatnot. If a future 75th owner snaps the corner off one with a cleaning rag, are they going to have to spend hundreds on another hand-made replacement? Hell, will they even be able to buy a replacement? AFAIK we still cannot buy replacement Trumpers. What if an airball clobbers one, or if the mounting holes simply wallow out after a while? Are we going to have to pay $hundreds for what are basically fancy bumper caps? I shudder to think of what Smaug replacement parts will cost... might be cheaper to purchase a second game and part it out?

I would MUCH rather have a good-looking but cheap-to-make plastic piece inside the game, than some ridiculously expensive hand-made artwork. Make the new walls the same way you made the original ones. If one breaks, it can be easily replaced.

Also still annoyed that these are included on the red "Second LE" game, without even offering a bone of a discount to those of us with the "Kickstarter" ECLEs. Instead we get stupid-high MSRP. Thanks but no thanks.

#293 5 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

I would MUCH rather have a good-looking but cheap-to-make plastic piece inside the game,

As long as they are available for cheap, forever after. Williams had a 13% parts over run, and until very recently with all the repo parts out there, look at what some things went for in the past. Banzai Run NOS plastic set on Ebay cleared $700 comes to mind.

Quoted from metallik:

Also still annoyed that these are included on the red "Second LE" game, without even offering a bone

This is Matt's project, not JJP's. JJP has a past history of throwing bones on things they made. Invisiglass sales for example.

LTG : )™

#294 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

As long as they are available for cheap, forever after. Williams had a 13% parts over run, and until very recently with all the repo parts out there, look at what some things went for in the past. Banzai Run NOS plastic set on Ebay cleared $700 comes to mind.

This is Matt's project, not JJP's. JJP has a past history of throwing bones on things they made. Invisiglass sales for example.
LTG : )™

1. We're not talking about forever, we're talking about something in production now

2. Might be Matt's project, but they're going on production JJP machines. They will have a JJP part number. Are you saying they will not be available to purchase from JJP, ever?

#295 5 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

1. We're not talking about forever, we're talking about something in production now

I was talking about your remark "I would MUCH rather have a good-looking but cheap-to-make plastic piece inside the game," not Matt's work.

To which I replied as long as long as they are available for cheap, forever after. There is no guarantee a cheap-to-make plastic piece will always be available or cheap.

Quoted from metallik:

Are you saying they will not be available to purchase from JJP, ever?

I didn't say that.

LTG : )™

#296 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

I was talking about your remark "I would MUCH rather have a good-looking but cheap-to-make plastic piece inside the game," not Matt's work.
To which I replied as long as long as they are available for cheap, forever after. There is no guarantee a cheap-to-make plastic piece will always be available or cheap.

I don't expect anything to be available forever, including the expensive hand-made parts. At least with cheaper parts you can buy spares (which many people do), and they're easy enough to remake down the road. An entire new CPR repro plastic set costs a little more than half what these walls alone do, and that's with an artist basically re-creating the vector art from scratch, and more limited production runs than the walls.

#297 5 years ago
Quoted from nwiryan:

I guess I ask this question Do you buy parts for a new Ferrari at Walmart and expect the same quality and results?

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#298 5 years ago

But the reviews on that shifter knob don't look that great. I guess you get what you pay for?

#299 5 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

I have a different view. And it is why I posted in this thread to begin with. Pinsiders providing comments here are excellent market data. And it's a voice. As a manufacturer of mods, it would be great to get direct (free) feedback here on who is or isn't buying, why, what they like/dislike, etc. And I think a lot of posts here provide that (with limited statistics, but still varied sentiments). First off, Matt does great work. I love the WOZ trees, think the spiderman mods were very cool/tasteful, really like the castle walls, etc. And I appreciate that quality product takes time and talent. So I think its helpful to see why some people bought them, why some said no, and what was liked/disliked about the product. Feedback is good.

If this statement was true then why do you feel the need to keep bringing his work up in this and other threads about how its way over priced. I think your back peddling at this point. Just own up that you've been harsh and rude about it and move on. Nobody cares really. But Matt's friends are going to back him up on his work effort and talents.

#300 5 years ago

I showed pictures of the 2 different sets of castle walls that are available to 6 pinball people last night who had no knowledge of origin or price, asked them which they preferred, vote was split 50/50.

We've seen pretty detailed pics of the BAC walls and what they are made of, until someone receives their alternate walls and comments on them, they are still an unknown as far as quality of materials goes.

I look forward to that comparison, that will go a long way as to which I decide to go for.

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