(Topic ID: 207927)

Baby-PAC vidiot 7 flashes

By titus

6 years ago


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  • 57 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by titus
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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There are 57 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 6 years ago

Hello everyone,
I've just joined this forum after weeks of reading different post on here about baby PAC man isssues. This is the first arcade I've restored. When I got it nothing would power up at all. So I've worked through several issues over the last few weeks. Thanks to all the great information here.
I am now at the point where I have seven flashes on my vidiot start up light ( occasionally I will only get one but I can retry the start and get seven again ) ,and one flicker with 6 flashes on my mpu . And all the lights and relays test seem to be working as designed.
Now ,according to the manual the eighth flash that I can't get is supposed to be a test of the PIA at U7 (MC6821P) . Since the mpu is booting fine and it has two PIAs the same part numbers I swapped with one of those With no change in light sequences on either board. Then I tested the socket at u7 with the pia plugged in I had continuity from each pia pin to the back side of board on all forty pins. I am at a loss as to what else to try.

Things I have repaired.
-removed/relocated battery pack
-repaired acid damage (two bad traces)on mpu
-cleaned and tested pins on mpu
-replaced 5 bad sockets on vidiot
-cleaned and tested rest of sockets
-cleaned and tested pins on vidiot
-replaced three bad pots
-tested(looked) for bad or damaged traces on vidiot

Machine statis on start up.
Powers up speaker buzz on start then quiet.sound test does nothing.

Screen lights up different shades of blue /green /red depending on how I move pots on vidiot. Screen test does nothing .

Play field lights up in attract mode .
Light test works
Relay solenoid test works

I did notice there appears to be a socket added to the harness at the cabinet hinge.?? Seems to be a joint all the wires twisted and tapped no solder. I would like to remove it and clean it up. But I'm not sure if it's needed?? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

#2 6 years ago

After reading back through some old post I realized that the vidiot board flashes don't quit flashing when they get a bad test . So now watching the sequence of test on you tube and comparing to mine. I am confident I am missing flashes 1,2,and10. I am starting out ordering a new 6803 to take care of 1 and 2 . and a few ram chips to hopefully correct 10 .

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from titus:

After reading back through some old post I realized that the vidiot board flashes don't quit flashing when they get a bad test .

That only applies for the vidiot deluxe board when waiting for the sound board tests to complete. That doesn't apply to the baby pac man vidiot board.

The flashes will halt if a test fails.

If the led locks on during a flash, then that flash fails. If the last flash actually comes on and goes off, but doesn't proceed to the next flash, then there is likely something wrong with the next test.

#4 6 years ago

Have you verified 5v on the vidiot at TP2? Since you've already tested the socket and chips verify its getting the voltage it needs.

#5 6 years ago

Yes I have verified the the voltages at all the test points. And at one point checked voltages on the reset lines before I was gettting any flashes , they are good also.
Since I have tried swapping the PIA with the same working mc6821p from the mpu board, is it possible that the 6809 at u8 is having an issue even though it was used for the 5 test previous?

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

That only applies for the vidiot deluxe board when waiting for the sound board tests to complete. That doesn't apply to the baby pac man vidiot board.
The flashes will halt if a test fails.
If the led locks on during a flash, then that flash fails. If the last flash actually comes on and goes off, but doesn't proceed to the next flash, then there is likely something wrong with the next test.

Sound section issues can cause a pause during the self test with the first two flashes missing and then continues on to the selftest flashes for the video section of the Vidiot. Press the sound test switch. If you don’t get two distinct flashes, you have a problem in the sound section of the board.

#7 6 years ago

There is about a three second pause after power up before any flash. And when I press the sound test buttton the only result is a slight static sound at the speaker. No lights.

Thank you all for the interest and the help.

#8 6 years ago

I'm guessing that you've already seen this:

http://www.pinrepair.com/bally/babypac.htm

There should basically be no delay at power on.

A few other videos:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=baby+pacman+boot

#9 6 years ago

Yes , the pin repair page has been a big help. Mine is definatly delayed before I get a flash. And I don't get a pause and flash before the last. So I'm hoping the 6803 and the ram chips fix the last of the issues.

Quick question on replacing those chips. Do I need to worry about installing any type of program to them? Or do they have a predetermined function?

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from titus:

Quick question on replacing those chips. Do I need to worry about installing any type of program to them? Or do they have a predetermined function?

They are plug n' play chips.

The only chips that need code burned to them are EPROM chips.

Quoted from titus:

Yes , the pin repair page has been a big help. Mine is definatly delayed before I get a flash. And I don't get a pause and flash before the last. So I'm hoping the 6803 and the ram chips fix the last of the issues.

I might suspect an issue on the 5v line. The original caps are usually suspect since they are over 30 years old at this point, and it's a good idea to replace them since they dry up and loose capacitance.

#11 6 years ago

5volt line seemed good every where I could check it. Good idea on capacitors. I will look at them specifically . And get some new ones they are cheap . Thanks.

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from titus:

5volt line seemed good every where I could check it.

The thought was that if the capacitors aren't in good shape, it make take them longer to charge up to the expected 5v, which might be causing a delay for the reset signal on boot.

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

The thought was that if the capacitors aren't in good shape, it make take them longer to charge up to the expected 5v, which might be causing a delay for the reset signal on boot.

If he tries a manual reset after powering up that would prove that issue if he gets an instant test sequence, correct?

#14 6 years ago
Quoted from Asmig:

If he tries a manual reset after powering up that would prove that issue if he gets an instant test sequence, correct?

Good idea.

I would assume should be able to force a reset on the vidiot board, but I'm not sure which pins on the 6809 CPU at U8 would need to be shorted to do a manual reset, like on the pinball MPU. Pin 37 is for the reset signal on the 6809. I'm guessing you would need to short that to ground momentarily to drop the reset signal to low momentarily, then after releasing, it would go high again and go through a reset.

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#15 6 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Good idea.
I would assume should be able to force a reset on the vidiot board, but I'm not sure which pins on the 6809 CPU at U8 would need to be shorted to do a manual reset, like on the pinball MPU. Pin 37 is for the reset signal on the 6809. I'm guessing you would need to short that to ground momentarily to drop the reset signal to low momentarily, then after releasing, it would go high again and go through a reset.

If he hits TP4 that should reset U8, U7, U16, and U27 all at once.

#16 6 years ago

Grounding tp4 does reset the chips and starts the flash sequence over still only getting 7 flashes.

#17 6 years ago

If you have a three second pause before any flashes I’m pretty sure you are not getting the first and second flashes. Most likely a problem with U27 or U29, or their sockets.

#18 6 years ago

If you get to an impasse I used eldorado games to repair my Vidiot.

http://www.eldoradogames.com

#19 6 years ago
Quoted from titus:

Grounding tp4 does reset the chips and starts the flash sequence over still only getting 7 flashes.

Was there still a delay at the beginning, or did the flashes begin almost immediately after the reset?

#20 6 years ago

I still had the delay. I should have the new chip tomorrow. I will see how that affects the operation.

#21 6 years ago
Quoted from titus:

I still had the delay. I should have the new chip tomorrow. I will see how that affects the operation.

Quoted from jj44114:

If you have a three second pause before any flashes I’m pretty sure you are not getting the first and second flashes. Most likely a problem with U27 or U29, or their sockets.

Based on that and your audio issue I'd agree take a look at U27

#22 6 years ago

I installed the new 6803 tonight. It had no affect. Still have the delay before the flash. And only getting the seven flashes. I tried the reset again (tp4 to ground ) with the same result . I double checked the sockets and the traces. All good. I'm curious about the EPROMs.how often they go bad and how to diagnose if that's the issue??

#23 6 years ago
Quoted from titus:

how often they go bad

Occasionally.

Quoted from titus:

and how to diagnose if that's the issue??

Download the ROM files from IPDB. Pop each chip in an EPROM burner, and use the burner software to compare the files to the EPROMs.

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from titus:

I installed the new 6803 tonight. It had no affect. Still have the delay before the flash. And only getting the seven flashes. I tried the reset again (tp4 to ground ) with the same result . I double checked the sockets and the traces. All good. I'm curious about the EPROMs.how often they go bad and how to diagnose if that's the issue??

Check the condition of crystal Y3 above the sound MPU, its possible you're not getting a clock circuit. Do you have a logic probe?

#25 6 years ago

The only quick way to diagnose this is with a logic probe. The 6803 tests the rom upon power up. You need to see the test signal coming out of the 6803 and then going into the rom. If it comes out of the 6803 and doesn’t get to the rom, then U28 is usually the problem. If you can see the signal coming into the rom, then either the rom or it’s socket are faulty. If the board had some corrosion, broken traces between U27 U28 and U29 can also prevent the 6803 from testingbthe rom.

#26 6 years ago

If the crystal is bad, the 6803 will not be running and can’t send the test signal

#27 6 years ago

If the mpu had corrosion from a leaky battery, it’s likey the Vidiot got corroded as its sits just below the mpu. I can tell you the pads and traces around the sockets are very thin and makes it difficult to replace sockets that are corroded. Triple check all socket repairs with a logic probe. I have repaired many of these and corroded sockets seem to be the most frequent issue on this board.

#28 6 years ago

This board did have corrosion damage I did replace 5 sockets. With u27 being one that was replaced. I did not find any bad traces on the vidiot.

I do not have a logic probe.

But when testing my repairs and existing sockets I did a continuity test from each exposed pin with the chip plugged in. To the back solder joint then also to the next exposed trace joint.

I do not own a programmer bit I have been looking at some on eBay. Just very reluctant to buy a cheap one and have it be junk.

I'm going to try to get my hands on a logic probe to see if I can do some better testing to verify the clock circuit.

#29 6 years ago

I have the rom files downloaded . Do you guys have a recommendation for a good programmer that's cost effective?

#30 6 years ago

Don’t play whack a mole and keep replacing socketed chips. Get the logic probe. It will save you a lot of time. The roms rarely are bad. About 18 bucks on amazon

#31 6 years ago

I found a logic probe locally so I'm going to get that today in town. I will be able to eliminate more potential issues tonight.
Thank you.

#32 6 years ago

I'm trying to figure out what I need to be looking for with this logic probe. Do I need to be looking at specific pin on the u27 and u29 chips ?

#33 6 years ago

Start by probing every pin on U27. Some will be high or low, but most should be pulsing. If any pin has no signal at all, then you have a socket or trace problem. If no pins are pulsing then the 6803 is not running, which is most likely a bad crystal. Pins 8 through 20, and 22 through 37 should all be pulsing.

#34 6 years ago

In case anyone's interested, I have working Vidiots available.

#35 6 years ago

I ended up ordering a logic probe lp-560 .. just got it today. I'm trying to run the test on u27. It appeares that 8-20 do not pulse the only reading I get on those is
8- high volt
9- low volt
10-20 nothing
Then the other side I everything reads right except for 34 which does not pulse just reads solid low volt.

#36 6 years ago

U32- I have no communication on either side except my high on pin 14 and low on pin 7

#37 6 years ago

U32? Refresh my memory

#38 6 years ago

My guess, socket looks bad. Test the pins on the back (solder side of the board). Any different?

#39 6 years ago

Check U27 pins 1-3 should be low.
Pins 6 and 7 should be high

#40 6 years ago

Also check pin 40?

#41 6 years ago

U32 is the digital to analog converter soldered to the board no socket. Looking at the schematic it connects to the u27 on pins 13-20

#42 6 years ago

Pin 40 is pulsing
And you are correct with pins 1-3 being low and pins 6and7 being high
I am getting the same signals on back of board

#43 6 years ago

The DAC is just for the sound output. Doesn’t affect the test flash sequence.
Pin 40 tells me the clock is running.

I think sockets and/or traces. Which sockets did you replace? Test all the pins on U29. It’s the rom that gives U27 instructions. Remember flash 1 and 2 are for U 27 and 29.

#44 6 years ago

If any pins on U29 have no signal. I know socket or trace problems are there

#45 6 years ago

All of my pins on u-29 had either a high or low or a pulse. U27 was one socket that I replaced and I have double checked it several times front to back of board.

#46 6 years ago

So basically u27 is sending a signal to the dac on pins13-20
So it would not necessarily be an issue with no pulse there if there is no sound commands ??

#47 6 years ago

U27 pins 10-11-12 are connected to u7 and I have no signal on those three either...

#48 6 years ago

The dac doesn’t matter for now. It does not enter into the test sequence. If it’s bad only no sound.

#49 6 years ago

U27 is sending a signal to U29 for the first flash. U27 has dead pins. Socket problem

#50 6 years ago

Post a pic of front and back of the board. It will help to see what’s the problem

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