(Topic ID: 272999)

Baby Needs A New Pair of [snow] Shoes! (or does it?)

By undrdog

3 years ago


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#1 3 years ago

Just removed, cleaned and reassembled the bakelite disk with the snow shoe contacts and cleaned the corresponding rivets on Heat Wave 's thermometer advance unit. (Didn't remove the square board with the rivets from the unit.)

After the reinstall, the same problems had not been fixed, and there were new problems.

On the off chance that the disk was not on tightly enough, I gave the nut another half turn.

That fixed the new problems (mostly) and I still have the original problems.

My next step, mainly because I can't think of anything else to do, was going to be taking it all apart again, and checking the wiring behind the rivets. But,

If a half turn of the wrench was what it took to get some of the connections working again, does that indicate its time for new snow shoes? They are spring loaded... seems like the unit would allow for a little give in the system. I'm afraid to tighten it any more... but maybe that would fix all my woes.

How do I know if I need new snow shoes?

undrdog

#2 3 years ago

It should be easy enough to test if there is continuity between the rivet and shoe with a multimeter.

#3 3 years ago

I think the lock nut will only go on so far before it stops because the disk has a metal plate around the mounting hole so you cannot over tighten it.
Why dont you start again. Remove it, clean the snowshoe pins and make sure they can move nicely and their springs tension them well, and carefully clean them and the corresponding rivet heads. Apply a very thin film of PBR grease on the river heads and reassemble. The shoes should all touch the rivet heads as they rotate across them. Watch them do so as they do so to make sure. Then try it. Not a bad idea either to ensure they are seated centrally on the rivet heads as they rotate and stop. If not, then adjust the base plate to suit. And then, as has been suggested, check continuity with a meter.

#4 3 years ago

Here's a couple of images of mine, which I've just cleaned and set up.

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Thermometer band has been removed for respraying btw.

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from Vintage-Pinball:

If not, then adjust the base plate to suit.

I didn’t see a way to adjust any of it. It looked like the snow shoe plate just fits on and off. I’ll take another look.

#6 3 years ago

Take the rotating disc off and on the rivet plate, these are usually 3 or 4 screws that hold it to the main housing. Slacken those a little and gently turn the rivet plate. I think the shaft holding the rotating disc is shouldered so you can't get that wrong. Refit it and see what you have. It doesnt take much movement and remember to tighten the screws in rotation because the torque action can often return the plate to it's original position, which is irritating! Hope that helps

#7 3 years ago

Each snow shoe should have a springy little snap to it when you gently pull and release. If not clean with rubbing alcohol or mineral spirits.

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from currieddog:

Each snow shoe should have a springy little snap to it when you gently pull and release. If not clean with rubbing alcohol or mineral spirits.

Indeed! I forgot to add that. Look at those on my pictures which got that treatment; nice and shiny once again.

#9 3 years ago

Thanks everyone! That'll be my weekend project.

#10 3 years ago

Adjusted the plate a little. Didn’t fix anything. Yellow pops and center rollover don’t light now. Could be some switches I messed with or bad Jones plugs, although the connections look ok.

The two bake light pieces have orange dots for alignment. The plate with the rivets has two alignment dots. Either could be correct. I took it for granted that the correct one is the one that lines up with the snowshoe plate when the axel is in reset position.

Could someone please look at their thermometer unit and confirm the correct alignment is the dots at reset? Thanks in advance.

Unless that is wrong, I’m throwing in the towel. Calling Evan Smith to get the thing fixed so I can finally enjoy it.

#11 3 years ago

Here's a picture of mine, when the large coil has stepped to its maximum. I think it was 24 stops ( I hope I haven't put that wheel on back to front as I've not tested it yet ) I'm pretty sure its correct though....

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#12 3 years ago

@classicpinballs
Thanks. There are orange dots on the Bakelite pieces . The square bakelight has two orange dots. One is near the top edge, and one is by the edge with all the wire connections. The disk Bakelite has an orange dot, too.

When the thermometer is reset, which of the two dots on the square is the orange dot on the disk lined up with?

#13 3 years ago

At reset, this is what I have, see pics. Note: the fixing hole is now facing the front of the machine.
Hope that clarifies this for you. ( do bare in mind I have yet to test this and am now worrying if it's back to front but I dont think so. Could be embarrassing for me if I have got it wrong )

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#14 3 years ago

I have a other, working, Heatwave to restore so if you are still stuck and need pictures from that, I'll do them, no problem.

#15 3 years ago

Thanks! I saw the hole, but didn’t know that it had any particular use. But I think that confirms that the problem isn’t misalignment. I’ll check again and make sure the hole aligns with something.

#16 3 years ago

It’s weird. The problems I’m having sure seems like they’d be caused by snowshoes being in the wrong places. But everything is aligned. The connections look solid.

One teensy strand of wire and a spec of paper fell out the last time I had it apart. I sure hoped that was the problem all along, but it wasn’t.

#17 3 years ago

What I know about EMs wouldn't fill a thimble, but I'm guessing the "path" of your malfunctioning light or switch flows through more than just the thermometer advance unit on the schematic. The problem could be misadjusted or dirty relay switches, a broken or loose wire downstream, or Mercury in retrograde (did I mention I hate working on EMs?).

I've been fighting the base runners on my Play Ball for months. Started out rebuilding the man-on-base latch relays, "adjusted" some relay bank switches, made things worse, fixed them, cleaned up the score motor, cleaned & tightened the add hit stepper unit, etc. Still not 100%.

Long story short, good luck.

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from undrdog:

It’s weird. The problems I’m having sure seems like they’d be caused by snowshoes being in the wrong places. But everything is aligned. The connections look solid.
One teensy strand of wire and a spec of paper fell out the last time I had it apart. I sure hoped that was the problem all along, but it wasn’t.

As I say, unless I've got mine back to front, which, as the orange dots line up, is unlikely, then I think it's safe to assume you have your one as good as is possible.

So, with regard to the piece of wire, do you have it? Could it be a link wire fallen off, that can been seen on the back of the snowshoes, on the disc? Or, take a close look at the square plate with the rivets on, just in case something has come off. No idea why a piece of paper would be there though.( I had one of these wires broken on a stepper once and it gave weird faults)

If all is correct, then move on and retrace your steps to what you have touched beforehand as see what you have. I have a schematic for mine if you need it, no problem.

#19 3 years ago

The little wire was a strand of regular wire. The first time I took it apart, I labeled all the wires, clipped them, and did my refurb. The paper was a little bit of torn off label. The wire was just a strand from cutting or reattaching the wire.

I first noticed the problems after refurbing a red pop bumper. But, the only connections to that are the lamp wires, switch and end of stroke switch. Very little to go wrong there. Continuity to the lamp ground is good. The pops work. But, the logic issues could well have been with the machine when I got it. I didn’t really play it until all the advance units were done.

#20 3 years ago

All of the Jones plugs were cleaned when I first got the machine , a few months ago. I suppose I could test for continuity.

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from undrdog:

That fixed the new problems (mostly) and I still have the original problems.

What problem are you still trying to fix?

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

What problem are you still trying to fix?

On reset, none of the pops are lit, which is correct. So, the red set and yellow set are one point bumpers at this time. But, the unlit red and yellows score ten instead of one.

After the thermometer advances to its first step, the pops correctly score one point. But, it gets stranger.

The match unit properly advances on any one point score, and rings the bell. However, starting with the first step, hitting a red or yellow unlit pop does not advance the match unit or ring the bell. The solenoid plunger pulls back, but not back far enough to engage the cog or strike the bell. The 0-9 reel scores correctly.

The strange part is that the other one point bumpers work fine. The plunger pulls back far enough; the unit advances, and the clanger rings the bell.

It’s spooky. And dependably repeatable.

#23 3 years ago

It’s all fixed! Turns out, the stopper pin was in the wrong place, so it was resetting to the wrong position. I could have put the unit back together wrong, or maybe it was someone messing with it before I got the machine.

Evan Smith aka The Pinsmith came out and got me all fixed up. He also found two shorts and a broken wire nestled inside a bundle of wires. Highly recommend Evan.

Thanks to everyone who helped out here!

I’m going to enjoy the machine for a few weeks, then go back to refurbing the pops. And one of the flippers sticks. I think it’s the spring & button assembly at the cabinet, not the solenoid.

#24 3 years ago

That's great news, well done. I love Heatwave, a firm favourite of mine

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