(Topic ID: 165055)

AX and Bx relay fix

By pinballman3

7 years ago


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#1 7 years ago

Hello all, does anyone know if anything can be done to keep the switches on the AX and BX relays from being able to jump out of position. I have a spirit of 76 that i went through and made it nice. This machine was a mess when i started on it. Got it done and I played about 20 games and started having problems. Come to find out the switches on the AX and BX relays had jumped out of place. I got them back right and the game playing fine. The thing is this game is going over to someone elses house and i would like to get it where there will be no trouble out of AX and BX. I dont want to have to go over there every 20 games. Any help would be appreciated.

#2 7 years ago

You should not need to do anything special to keep the switches in place.

Can you post a pic of one of the relays? In particular, a picture of the way the switches are sitting in the slots in the relay actuator would be helpful.

Thanks - TimMe

#3 7 years ago

The alignment of these switches is mechanical. In other words, they should not be able to jump out of position. Look closer to see how the moving parts are aligned and the limit to their stroke. Something is letting the actuator travel further than it should.

#4 7 years ago

or the blade is broken at the end and is shorter than it should be. Maybe someone swapped the blades outw with shorter versions. they should not be able to slip out. I've never had a problem with AX and BX relays on mine. They are a pain to adjust because the clearance is so small between blades, but once dialed in, should be fine.

#5 7 years ago

When i had the problem and pulled up the playfield the reset bank had dropped down. I wonder if it could have shorted to something and made the AX and BX relays kinda jump back and or go crazy which made it pop the switches out. I will get picks

#6 7 years ago

Thanks Here are a few pics

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20160726_125119_(resized).jpg20160726_125119_(resized).jpg

20160726_125051_(resized).jpg20160726_125051_(resized).jpg

#7 7 years ago

by any chance, are those two relays located under the reset bank?
could they have gotten bumped, yanked, or otherwise beaten up due to the reset bank hanging down? and then, the play field lifted?
Like Mike said, pretty straight forward relays, nuthin special about them, they shud remain in place during play.

#8 7 years ago

Great pics. Everything looks 100% normal. The blades are in the correct slots and there is enough blade tail poking through the actuator slot that the switches should not jump out of the actuator.

With the switches in the correct position, I only know of three ways they can jump out:

First, if the switch stack screws are very loose and the switch blades can move around a lot. I'm going to assume you have the switch stack screws down tight.

Second, if the relay actuator is struck by some external force or mis-handled and is knocked askew, as others have already mentioned.

Third, if the actuator is pulling in farther than it is supposed to before it is stopped by the armature hitting the pole piece of the coil. This is not a very common occurrence, but I mention it here for completeness. The main way this happens is if the coil is an older-style coil and you are missing the thin brass spacing washer at the back end of the relay frame where the coil screw attaches to the frame. On newer AG relay coils, this extra spacer was built into the plastic housing of the coil and so the brass washer was not needed.

And, another related item I would suggest is to line up that one set of switch blades a bit more. Slightly loosen the screws holding the switch stack, and align all of the blade tails poking through the slots of the actuator so that they are all lined up, with none of the blade tails close to the edge of the actuator slot. That will prevent a future service call due to a blade working its way over and scraping the side of the actuator slot such that it hangs up the physical operation of the relay. After lining up the switch blades, of course you want to be sure to tighten the switch stack screws down good and tight.

- TimMe

#9 7 years ago

Here's a pic of the two different styles of AG coil I mentioned in post #8. The coil on the left is the older style and needs a brass spacing washer. The coil on the right has the plastic bump-out at the back of the coil and does not need (and should not have) a brass spacing washer.

AG_coil_types_(resized).jpgAG_coil_types_(resized).jpg

- TimMe

#10 7 years ago

A missing washer here could be a big deal.

I learned something to pay more attention to in the future. Thanks, Tim.

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from TimMe:

Here's a pic of the two different styles of AG coil I mentioned in post #8. The coil on the left is the older style and needs a brass spacing washer. The coil on the right has the plastic bump-out at the back of the coil and does not need (and should not have) a brass spacing washer.

- TimMe

Good info Tim, I did not know that. May save me a hassle in the future.

#12 7 years ago

Those relays just suck to get dialed in...once they are, play the hell out of the game and they should be good...play, let it sit a month and you'll have trouble

#13 7 years ago

Thanks all. Tim i will check everything good and close again in the morning. I have played about 10 games since i fixed the AX and BX relays. All is well so far.

#14 7 years ago

I redone the switch alignment and all seems well. I marked this as resolved Thanks

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