You can just bevel cut that corner of the rail a bit, too. Would eliminate that contact point.

Ed Robertson tasked me with hitting the inner loop 4 times in a row. I did six.
https://clips.twitch.tv/DepressedThirstyRabbitHassaanChop

Nice !!! That would have been killer to get the super skill shot after that . 2.8 million !!!! if skill shot value was at 400 k .
God Damn!!!

That's 2 too many. You lose the Showcase Showdown.

You can adjust it without having to bevel the wooden rail. I posted this while back in the other Rick and Morty thread.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/rick-amp-morty-pinball-from-spooky/page/237#post-5533989

The wood rail was keeping the metal rail from being in the optimum position. The original position spaces the ball to far away from the flipper. It works better if the ball rolls off the end of the metal rail and is flush to the flipper surface.

I read able to loosen the wooden rail by removing some of the screws under the playfield. Once the wooden rail was loose, I repositioned the metal rail to a better spot. I moved the metal rail far enough in that I had to drill a new hole to secure it to the playfield.

I then secued the wooden rail back down to the playfield. Although the wood rail was shifted, I was still able to screw it back in from under the playfield with the original holes.

I think this approach is way less messy than cutting or leveling the wood rail on an existing game as there is a lot if stuff attached to it. However, on future games it would trivial to trim the end of the rail before it's installed on the game. The part the rail that gets trimmed is entirely under a plastic so no issues if it's a little shorter.

e64c5de5497cd4c59e5806558384f70ab6f7a86a (resized).jpg

Wow,I'm not in any way impressed by all the tweeks you apparently have to do to get this title working right! If Spooky doesn't fix this junk i'm out

Have you played a stern recently? I cant even begin to tell you the days worth of hours lost helping my friend tweak his Stranger Things LE.

They replaced the shit ramps that dont work for hitting the main shot in the whole game (only after bitching to them on per case basis,)

How about the TK lock? Doesnt work 4 out of 5 times. Even after hours of adjusting.

Projector? Washed out looking and out of focus upon arrival. Most folks are adding black diamond material to enhance the quality.

Anyway I believe that some tweaking comes standard with this hobby. I am just glad that I bought my machine from a company like Spooky who will take all these thoughts and ideas into consideration and practice.

I dont see any of the other large companies opting to make changes unless forced by threat of civil action.

I sent Spooky a request for information about what they might be modifying at the factory to address these issues. I'll report back what they say if they don't chime in themselves on this thread.

With all the detailed information on tweaks here, I am 100% sure that spooky will do their best to improve future builds!

Classic "what about" argument. These adjustments aren't tweaks. These are major adjustments. If I have to drill new holes on a brand new playfield, something isn't right. I've bought every Spooky game NIB so I'm not a hater. I've also bought most Stern LE's NIB for the last few years. Sorry about your friends Stranger Things but that hasn't been my experience at all. Just unpacked Elvira LE Tuesday. Played flawlessly right out of the box and that has more complicated mechs in it than Rick & Morty. My R&M is paid in full and on the line now waiting to be finished. I'm emailing Spooky today to see if they are making any of these adjustments before it ships.

I agree. Spooky is a top notch company and team. These really are not major adjustments and my bet is they will make adjustments as they get back to production. Before everyone jumps down their throat do remember aside from operator machines there are literally only a handful of private owner games out there where general tinker feedback comes from. Private owners just like to tinker lol. I would trust and give them a chance to refine production tweaks as they resume. Haven’t personally seen many instances where Spooky has let down a customer.

not to mention, the game is honestly totally acceptable out of the box.

Many people that dont have or have not flipped the game understandably read all these posts and think the sky is falling.
I will say that our route game needed no where near that amount of movement to make it shoot better, and what came from the factory was on par with every other NIB game I have purchased in the past 5 years in regards to adjustments I do to make it play how I prefer.
I did minor bends and adjustments.

I am glad this level of adjustment works for you guys, but I see that as 100% own personal choice.

Im sure spooky will make the adjustments needed without hesitation. If you dont have your machine yet dont trip over it or freak out. I have 351 if anyone with a lower number wants to do a swap that doesnt want to make adjustments if needed let me know i dont mind making these tweaks.

On other note
What does the defrac grenade do in purge mode and how is it activated or can you activate it?

Personally I am on the fence regarding making some of these more drastic changes. I did remove the screws from the ball guides but do not plan on shifting the whole ball guides and drilling new holes. Not because I think there is a problem with that, it's your game I say definitely do whatever you want to make it more enjoyable for you, but I am OK with having shots be tough and "perfect" shots rejecting sometimes. I can think of countless games that have 1 or 2 very hard shots. I'm sure you could make every single one of them easier by moving the ball guides, opening them up, etc etc, but aren't you then changing the intentions of the designer? If something was making the shot impossible to make then that is a different story but I don't need and/or expect to be able to hit the inner loop 5 times in a row for it to be enjoyable. It is absolutely a make-able shot leaving the ball guide as is. The garage shot is definitely tougher but that was Scott's intention. I actually find it easier to hit when comboing it with the inner loop and it is honestly an awesome feeling when you nail it. Just the 2 cents of a very average pinball player.

First, thanks to iepinball and Yelobird for posting your modifications to make the shots smoother.

My inner loop can certainly benefit from the adjustments and I may do them. On the positive side, the new holes are hidden and underneath ramps/plastics, so if you make the adjustment and decide to bring it back to factory, you can do so and not have screw holes on the visible playfield. As Yelobird said, some of us are the type that has no problems making tweaks and adjustments and giving that feedback to Spooky. Hopefully in future games, they can make the modifications so all the later builds don't have to worry about it. Also, notice how we are not the "sky is falling, and everything is terrible" owners, and if anything, this pause in manufacturing will give them more time to receive feedback and fine tune for the later run games.

Win/Win in my book.

Agreed. There should be a line between "difficult, but not impossible" and "bumper bowling". There are plenty of pinball shots and combos that are renowned for their difficulty and required level of skill - that's part of risk / reward. It seems many of these adjustments are being made for that over-used term "flow" and while that's understandable to a point, maybe... just maybe... the game isn't supposed to be close-your-eyes-and-loop-all-day flowy! Maybe it's supposed to have a little variance and unpredictability to it. Only Scott would know for sure.

That said, the right flipper ball guide does seem like a problem that should be fixed. The orbits might be more subjective. I agree that abrupt original curve seemed odd and shouldn't be so frustrating... but maybe it shouldn't the guaranteed shot some people are trying to create, either.

But I'm sure most people don't indiscriminately drill holes to change things on a whim so to each their own. I'd just be a bit cautious about making a game "too easy". May as well close up outlanes and widen some ramp entries on other games, too.

I have a question. I have made some minor adjustments (removal of screws), that has made a huge improvement. That said, I still have the problem of ripping the spinner and the ball seems to get stuck at the top of the loop (under the house), and then it trickles back to the entrance. I’m running the most recent code. Anyone else have the ball get “caught” at the top of the loop. A lot of times it whips around just fine.

Always had that same issue when I was lucky enough to hit the loop. I believe from the original rail arc to much speed was rubbed off at the turn to successfully make the loop. After the simple modifications I can now enjoy the game and hammer that spinner as I am Certain it was designed to be.

Thanks. I will take my modifications a step further.

Is it a lack of momentum or is it hitting that diverter?

I was looking at Carl's photos last night and I think that there is also some work that can be done to mitigate the contact with the base of the diverter.

Good luck. As luck would have it shortly after posting those modifications I am now masking up to Mend 2 other local RM friend games for Friday fun. lol To clarify a previous poster, No modification will make R&M easy... This game is kick butt lightning fast fun!

Spooky, please review and adjust where the holes are drilled in this pin. We'd really appreciate it!

BSE 109 here. Completely agree that these issues need to be dealt with at the factory. Just watch Karl’s streams. The game shoots orders of magnitude better with the changes he made.

Agreed making these shots less clunky and smoother shooting isn't suddenly making the game too easy. The speed of the horseshoe loop and the lower pop really keep you on your toes (in a good way).

Just watch the DeadFlip stream, he's one of the elite players and his ball times on RM are not nearly as long as some other recent games.

So far they've built around 50 or 75 games? I've been in engineering and manufacturing for decades and of all the products we've ever done it took way more units than that before all the kinks were worked out (products that were way less complicated than a pinball machine).

I'm sure Spooky is listening and the remaining 90% or more of the games yet to be built will be looked at and any process changes they think are needed to achieve Scott's intended game play experience will be implemented. Nobody is perfect and shit happens, the true measure of a company is how they deal with the inevitable issues that will arise. From my experience, Spooky is at the top as far as listening and responding to customer feedback compared to other pinball companies.

I don't think it's about making the game too easy, it's understanding that I don't need to be able to combo the inner loop 5-6 times for the game to be fun. I also understand that shots reject out sometimes, even perfect ones, that's just pinball. Scott's been designing this game for what, a year+? How can anyone say changing the geometry is what his "intended" vision was unless he comes out and says the final CAD was messed up or something and all the playfields were drilled incorrectly. Again, people are free to do with their games whatever they want but I can think of a bunch of "clunky" games that are universally regarded as amazing.

It Is possible what Scott designed is not how it was assembled? None the less the game is fun and sharing solutions so others can fully enjoy it is harmless. Don't think anyone would say this is a bad game in anyway.

Can't see how that's possible, he seems very hands on.

I'm assuming the playfield was cut and dimpled based off the final CAD that Scott produced which was based off the year+ that he worked on the whitewood... At that point, it's just screwing things into the pre-dimpled holes. I'm not sure how something could have gotten messed up during manufacturing. I'm sure Scott has put many games on the production pins as well and would have noticed by now if something was truly messed up.

By the time I get my game all these tweaks are going to need their own manual.

Scott does not assemble games. He works at Pinball Life in a different state.

From interviews, he also doesn't consider himself a great or prolific player.

I guess my ultimate point is, I was freaked out as a lot of other people seem to be reading about all these issues before I got my game. I thought the shots were going to be impossible to make, especially if you're not Bowen or something. Just from my own personal experience now, the shots are all make-able (but challenging). If Scott comes out and says, actually I meant for the guide rails to be widened more and something got messed up along the way and we're making changes going forward than that's great. I just hope people understand if that doesn't happen and the game is as intended out of the box today, it's still a great game and every shot is definitely make-able.

Agreed. I Think much of the concern is highlighted as most if not All of the awesome recent game play videos (JD etc) have All started by saying they Made these adjustments and they are great players and it plays better. So needed or not the option is now available to the Owner to decide. All Good in my book. The forum is about Helping each other to make our own decisions and have a resource to see alternative options.

I think you are confusing shot rejects based off of bad shots and ones that should be made but don't because of imperfections in guides.For example, you own JJP POTC. I do as well. The loop shot up top was smooth for awhile on mine but now has developed an occasional rattled shot. I need to get under the black pearl to fix this problem which is common. I can shoot the same shot 10 times and 3-4 will rattle and slow up. This is an inconsistency. This is not a deliberate design in the game.

I'm saying pinball isn't a video game, where if you perform the correct button pushes in the correct order you get the same result everytime. If I nail a shot and it rejects out 1 or 2 out of 10 times I chalk that up to being pinball. When I first got into the hobby I used to love watching Bowen's PAPA tutorial videos and there are countless examples of him nailing a shot perfectly and it bricking out. He didn't get pissed, that's just the nature of the game. I'm not saying it's not annoying sometimes but for some games it's also what makes me push the start button again. That desire to get revenge.

Understood, but if you make a clean shot and there is a reject due to clunkiness, this may be more akin to playing a videogame on a controller with inconstant button responsiveness.

You shouldn't shoot a clean inner orbit or garage shot, and feel relief when it successfully works as expected.

I definitely get what you're saying, I do. It's weird though, for some reason missing the inner orbit does not piss me off that much, maybe because it never results in the ball draining. Nailing that shot however is so incredibly satisfying and getting it 2-3 times even more so. Add on nailing the garage shot at the end of that and it's freakin an awesome feeling and I don't mind that I may only pull it off once every 4-5 games at this point.

That's different than something like the Gem shot on Tron for me or the sim card shot on Dialed In. I used to dread that shot with a passion because you had to have it to progress. I also felt like if I made that shot it was by pure luck not skill

Well, it's a radius and they are extremely finicky when it comes to measurement and install. Get anything slightly wrong and it all goes bad pretty quick...

I have been wondering what gauge steel was on the whiteboard compared to the production. (Or, if they were different at all?)
I would imagine that you would want a thinner gauge while you were designing / dialing a machine in. It would allow you to make more changes to geometry on the fly, but when you switch to a stouter production piece you would lose some 'spring' (that we see people regaining when they remove some support screws).

Anyway, I am sure that Spooky is well aware of the mods and I have no doubt they will address any issues brought to them by the community.

You need to stop telling people that this is acceptable out of the box. NO it is not at the $$$ of these games.

Yea, you and I have the skills to improve the game but...... WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO!!! Do you ever think before you just spout off?

Clearly you don't....

I agree. Why does Whysnow continue the complacent cheerleading? I mean if it can be fixed at the factory, surely that is the ideal solution, no?

I’m pretty sure Spooky is monitoring this and will make adjustments they are needed. There are very few games being played. This is what early games are for, to work out the bugs.

It's just the same old Whysnow... does he not realize what a joke he is around here?

Gotta love people that have not even played the game telling me that I am wrong.

This game is 100% the same amount of tweaking needed as seriously every single NIB I have opened over 5 years. Only difference is people care enough to share the tweaks on a spooky game because they will actually listen and adjust how they see fit.

I could hit every shot the first game I played. Stop whining and play better. FFS

Hilton, adjusting metal rails is a serious design issue. It is the basis for the design of the game...period! I have played the game on route before this shit happened that has confined us AND have one on order, the game needs work. What recent game required moving metal rails around? Seriously! WHAT GAME FFS??!? None in any of the threads that I pay attention to.

Stop your damn cheerleading and saying everything is all good when CLEARLY it needs improvement, you look foolish for doing so..... F-F-S!

I have been very clear and open since D1 of the small suggested tweaks.

Some of these guys are going whole hog and WAY beyond anything that is needed.

Totally their preference but in your typical fashion you are being extreme.

I assume spooky will have made many adjustments already as that is what they do.

As for moving rails just name a stern in the past 5 years. The vast majority have needed adjustments.

Shit, elvira was such a complete and utter mess that we dumped that turf after a month. Stuck balls required full removal of the house and bending shit all over the place. Ball lock issues. Lockout issues. These are all very well documented and you are being purposefully dense if you deny it.

Not sure if you are referring to me, but I've played the game... Not the at your location, but here in NYC.

I respectfully disagree, this is NOT 100% the same amount of tweaking as per every single NIB, especially when you have to bring out the drill to start making new screw holes in the playfield to have shots complete.

Why does it matter what stern does? This is an r&m thread keep sterns crap out of it.

I appreciate the fact you do offer some needed tweaks and spend the time to post pictures but the constant cheerleading is a real turn off. Why does it matter to you if people who have a deposit down want things improved?

Maybe some people are worried that if there is an improved version of Rick and Morty released, those who already have a Rick and Morty will have the 'lesser' version of the pin. I'm not sure anyone would admit this, but it's not an unfathomable human response.

That’s the price you pay for being at the head of the line.