The black one, but if you could give me both sizes that would be super. My 2 year old flipped over my screw plate when I was messing with the flippers. All this flipper talk got me going again.

Thanks as always!!!!

PM me and I'll just send you a couple. The stainless 10-32 hex standoffs, especially, are ridiculously expensive at like 80 cents to $1 EACH plus shipping (you won't find them in a hardware store). I had to have them manufactured myself to get the costs down.

Coding to build a software end-product is hard. Coding to drive a well-defined hardware system can be even harder. Now make that hardware system totally random (metal ball(s) and dozens of switches) and I can't even imagine the complexity. As others have said, and I totally agree, Eric is doing an amazing job. That being said, he's still a Spooky employee and we are Spooky customers, and he should consider that relationship when venting his frustrations imo.

Honestly...seriously...honestly. If you like R&M at all...This is probably the best overall game I've ever played. There is no denying it. That doesn't mean it doesn't have some growing pains to get past.

for those of you not keeping abreast of developments,
eric is possibly moving on.

charlie emery from the 'final round pinball podcast' ep32 :

" we hired an electronics engineer slash programmer, so we have even more help in that regard. we still have eric on hand, kinda helpin us out with some stuff and well see where he wants to go in the future. hes only a few hours away from us.. but uh obviously DID a great job on rick and morty, couldnt be happier with his performance."

eric has relentlessly and faithfully worked over RAM for nearly two years. through no fault of his own, he was blindsided by the need to find software solutions to these confounding flipper issues. instead, he could have been further enhancing the RAM rule set. the decision to use single wound coils, coils actually overheating, playfields 1/8" to thin causing loss of energy to the ball, 6 months waiting for new bushings, incorrect flipper return springs... were these erics responsibility?

in addition, it sounds as though he bore the brunt of the coding development aspects for RAM and, in the end, everything was more than he bargained for. im inclined to sympathize with eric, feeling he could have benefited from some extra help.

when martin emphasized bowens contributions, charlie steered clear of giving bowen too much credit:

"bowen kinda gave us the opportunity to clean up a little bit, to pick up on some of things we were missing, but like on RAM eric definitely directed the code on that game."

in the end, development really boils down to the man hours involved no matter how many different people it takes to complete the work. if development time for a game is expected to take 6000 man hours, one guy can do it in three years, but 6 guys can do it in 6 months. IIRC, the 22 GNR song modes and lightshows were split among 6 different programmers. can you imagine how many years it would have taken one person to complete them all? if everyone is around the same pay grade and skill level, development costs under the two scenarios are identical because they both require the same number of man hours. from a pinball manufacturing standpoint, if you are looking to produce more titles in a shorter period of time one needs to hire more development help. git r done.

So the buzzing sound from my flipper appears to have something to do with the plunger.

I opened the door, and while it was buzzing, I pushed gently on the plunger. Sound went away.

So does that mean too much gap, or too little?

Eventually, I will get to fully play and enjoy this game.

Pushed it toward the coil stop, or against the coil sleeve?

Loosen the coil stop, pinch it with your fingers and the other side of the coil nice and tight. Then retighten. The coil stop is what stops the flipper. You shouldn’t be able to push the plunger in anymore after it engages.

Perspective. Eric did an excellent job.

Thanks for everything you have done epthegeek
After 9 months and a few thousand plays we still love our game like no other
Some of the best code out there, so many cool little features that make it special, each adventures rules relate to the adventure you are in, so many possibilities with dimensions.
My flippers work great.
Thank you team spooky!!

I said nothing about single wound coils, so stop trying to ding me. Much more importantly, this isn't about me...it's about the dysfunctional flippers that so many of us have tried to get to work properly. Our time is valuable, so stop apologizing for the company...it's pathetic.

...sometimes less is more.

I wasn't part of the y'all, so I don't know why you are directing your comment at me. I'm running the default flipper code, which works great for the lower flippers. My only problem is with the constant knockdowns on the upper flipper.

The game is awesome (as I have said in numerous posts), Eric did an awesome job, MY build and flippers have been less-than-awesome. That's it in a nutshell. The only reason Eric comes up so much is he is the person that wrote the code and engages with us on Pinside. When I've tried to engage with Spooky support on issues of this ilk, it's clear they aren't in the loop. Again, this is a platform/management issue. If Spooky decided to switch to single wound coils and not provide an EOS for the upper flipper, then they need to make this "architecture" work. The software is at the mercy of the hardware. I wrote compilers for 25 years, I know all about hardware dependencies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clang)...

You didn't say that. You implied that by lumping all their flipper timing/performance development together - the implication being they've been working on it for like 8 years since the company started. The reason I "dinged you" is because that's a false assertion and the single wound coils they've been struggling with (dual wound of their first 6.5 years of games were mostly fine) have only been worked on with Spooky for ~18 months.

Just clarifying the facts because you started from an incorrect platform.

I'm not apologizing for the company. I'm fixing your incorrect assertion so the conversation can stay true to the facts. Single wound timings and performance are the main issue, and Spooky hasn't been doing that very long, big picture. American still has their share of flipper issues, too. It's not unique to Spooky.

It’s one thing to say the problem will be fixed, it’s another to follow through. I feel bad for Erik, he seems the only one to care. Sad to see him go if that’s true. He really put his sweat into all this.

How long does it honestly take to make new bushings, or just hire someone to shorten 1400 of them? I feel a lot of the promised fixes from Spooky are empty. I don’t mean to shit on anything, but I mean.. they got your money, it’s not like any of the complaints are going to change their bottom line. Yes, I know they sent out new legs to some people, but I am sure buying legs at 1000+ a time makes them dirt cheap (and they probably got money back because of the defect).

I honestly think it’s shitty they leave Erik out to be hung by the masses. Sure they could hire 3 more programmers to help, but again, that hurts their profit.

In the end we are just people complaining on the internet, but I’m kinda second guessing TNA 2.0. Too many posts about why couldn’t they just spend the nickel and put a better xxxx in. It’s way easy to pick off emails sent personally about complaints, then to address everyone.

Erik, if we even meet, I would love to buy you a beer or three.

I know how it goes, same for me at work. Yeah they could hire another programmer to help, but why??? I’ll get it done eventually, and the company is too cheap.

Time to nut up or shut up.

Well, now that Erik has been attacked for flipper-gate...you all can kiss any updates goodbye. I love the game. Yah, the flippers have some weirdness, but for me...minor. It’s pinball. There’s always something that isn’t quite right. Heck, my NGG does something similar. I want to apologize to Erik and Spooky. They actively engage to learn and make it better...but individuals can only take so much before they say f-it and check out of the situation. I hope I am wrong and we keep getting updates, but wouldn’t be surprised if this is it. Looking for a fix...which many have done...is different than throwing shit...which others have done. To those that are having big problems, reach out directly to Spooky. They have incredible customer service and will bend over backwards to help you. If you figure out something that helps you..post it. Help others. Don’t throw shit.

I haven't been keeping up with every last posted issue / fix / theory / change in Flippergate. But I have noticed that between the various issues, perceptions, solutions, revisions, and personally-tuned settings between games, there are a LOT of moving variables in trying to sort these issues out!

So I was thinking that a matrix would be handy, something kind of like this:

RMFT (resized).PNG

I don't promise it is complete or thorough, but maybe someone smarter than me can refine it (or suggest the edits to me). That way when people are having issues they can baseline what they have as they change settings. Or folks that claim to have "perfect" games can share their secret recipe?

I'm one of the last games to be delivered so I haven't been able to directly help much, but I think this could be useful?

Depending on where they're doing it, it can take a while. The mold is the time-killer, they have to test the first samples, and if there are revisions, that's more time. If they're doing it in China, there are lots of factory and shipping backlogs that can cause not-insignificant delays, too.

I understand the frustration, but I really do think Spooky is working in good faith to resolve the issues as they arise. It's just a fact that some of them are not easy or fast solutions. It's the risk you take when you go with a relatively new pinball company as they build their technology base. None of this should be a surprise to anyone who has read Spooky pin threads.

They are probably tooling up to use these in their new game, and once they are available will be able to provide them to R&M customers also, assuming they are keeping their "skinny" playfield thickness as well.

Nobody attacked Eric, they were simply trying to communicate what they are experiencing. Eric took it personally and his frustrations boiled over into unprofessional responses IMHO. We are all only human, it's clear he's burned out and needs a break. We all love what Eric's done for this game, let there be no doubt about that.

However, I've worked in software for over 20 years, and where there's smoke - there's usually fire. You disregard multiple reports of issues at your peril. It might not have anything to do with the code for the flippers itself, I don't know, but there is something going on here and I agree that Spooky as an organization should get in front of it.

..

Fair enough. But, if Erik is burned out and feels attacked, don’t expect more updates/goodies. And if there are those with knowledge of software or coding...maybe pm Erik to help instead of broadcasting...might be more helpful to him.

This is a company taking thousands of dollars per person, not some modder in their basement who can take their 3d printer and walk away because someone made a comment they didn't like on the internet. If indeed the post about what Charlie said is as it sounds, today was going to happen at any time because it wasn't about what any 1 person said.

I know it’s thousands of dollars to the customer, but remember it’s costing them thousands of dollars per game to make. If you have a problem it’s best to reach out to them directly...if you find a solution...it’s great to bring it here.

What he wrote is *nothing* compared to all the other bullshit that gets posted here daily.

When someone is telling him "look at the code again" and he's already looked at it 100 times this week, yea a flat-earther comparison is quite appropriate. Get a thicker skin, recognize when people are doing their best and stop giving them shit.

Releasing code that allows users to adjust things to their particular machine was plenty good enough for me. Code can only work around hardware issues up to a point.

The key thing to remember here is, I didn't ask Erik, he chose to respond, which I appreciated, except, it was all things I already knew and tried. Calling people idiots isn't winning him any points. I'm not going to hide in PM. Why do people think threads are only here to talk about the 'good' things? The whole point of putting it in the thread is to group think to a solution. If I thought it was just me, I'd be in a PM. I've done it with other things.

Ok. But remember...people can only take so much...then they check out...no more goodies/updates. PM is a much more manageable place. It’s like having a problem at work and instead of taking that person aside you loudly complain about it to everyone.

That goes both ways. Are you standing over his shoulder? Just curious. No one was giving him shit. He decided to act like a child. I love what he's done on this game, but I'm not kissing his ass just because "he might not add more". Way too much of that in this hobby. I was as cordial as I could be given the responses.

I sure hope Spooky's going back to a more standard playfield thickness. ANOTHER variable with Spooky machines isn't really great.

For the record, my #670 is playing great. After spending some time dialing in the game, I have no issues.

Yeah that was a rather unpleasant surprise. It will make future maintenance on the game much more "interesting" in a bad way, now that we have to keep track of exactly which screws go into each hole. With less depth, holes will be more likely to strip out as well.

Do we know why they're using two different length screws in the flipper plates? I understand if it's to give a bit more length on one of them to give more grab (?), but changing from a #6 to a #8 does that better and you can have both screws be 1/2". Is there something I'm missing with that choice?

Is there an alternative to the factory art blades made yet? I tried to get a huge bubble out of the ones put on at the factory and it just creased making the blemish stand out more. The factory ones are pretty blah anyway so hoping someone makes a different choice.

I believe the standard (longer) screws are used where the playfield topside is covered (apron, plastics) and an errant poke-through the top wouldn't be visible. Otherwise the shorter screws are used to prevent such an ocurrence where it'd be visible.

But with the thickness of the flipper plate and the playfield stacked (the screw has to penetrate both in a stack), there's no way I can see a 1/2" screw poking through the other side. I've had testers for the revised Spooky Tibetan Breeze bracket checking it (because I'm including 3 #8 screws for better bite), and...no comprende.

And now for a change of subject...

I've adjusted the factory LCD and enabled gamma, and honestly the picture is pretty good; but R&M has very colorful content and I'd like to source the absolute best possible display available. Bright with deep colors and wide viewing angle.

There was talk around a few models in the past, but I was wondering if by now there was a known "best" model? I'd love to drop an OLED in this thing but unsure of the game's specific requirements. Is it 30pin or 40pin, etc?

Who all has installed replacement screens so far, which one, and what do you think of it?

And you all wonder why the big manufacturers don’t hang out in pinside threads.

Found some from tilt graphics.

https://www.tiltgraphicsinc.com/product-page/rick-morty-gameblades

This thread be like

7D762D91-03D5-487A-B501-5707E68DE91B (resized).jpeg

They hate Matthew Lillard?

I have to say, the playfield seems to have held up way better than other new games I have had. No idea if the thickness is a part of that, but you have to give them credit for getting that right. Yes it blows the bushings are too tall, and as far as I know shorter ones aren't available still. The fact the playfield is not a normal thickness and the bushings are wrong is a fail for sure.

Exactly the reason I keep saying JJP should take another look at Bader. I believe Bader is doing Spooky playfields, and if that's true, then Bader has come a long way from the ECLE WoZ PFs they made where huge chunks of the playfield art just came off completely in high traffic areas. I know that burned JJP, but it was NOTHING compared to the ongoing nightmare with Mirco's ridiculous playfield fail parade starting with Dialed In.

If Bader has the capacity and that's who is turning out Spooky's R&M playfields, JJP should have another look (but only with full-thickness playfields).

Rick adjusts balls near the end after a big multiball :3

Also, game had been used continuously for 3 hours of multiplayer games. No flipper fade was noticed. Game rested for 15 minutes, then I played 5 single player games over about 40 minutes. Immediately after this last game I remove the glass and lift playfield to take some thermal records.

Lower Flippers: 28
Upper Flipper: 24
Hold Power: low
Hold Pattern: Aggressive

LL: 103F
FLIR0103 (resized).jpg

LR: 123F
FLIR0100 (resized).jpg

FLIR0102 (resized).jpg

UR: 128F
FLIR0098 (resized).jpg

*Running 100mm case cooling fan under playfield.

20210509_150843.jpg

20210509_151037.jpg

Upper right only gets cary-over draft from the fan at the front.

Works great and no fade to notice after several hours of pretty solid play. Everybody seems quite happy with the flipper recoveries as well. All ready for the State show next weekend!

Those temps are on the high side if you're cooling all the coils.

That said, as long as you're below the threshold of fade, that's all that really matters.

Also this is using the "aggressive" pattern.

The upper flipper is not cooled as much as the lower flipper, but it does get increased airflow. One fan.

It's a 12v fan, jacked straight into the 12v supply. High efficiency low noise jobby. Always on, set and forget.

Right, but your temps were actually higher because active cooling brings down temps pretty quickly if the coil isn't being worked. So the time from when you stopped playing until you read the temp (with a gun?) allowed the coils to lose probably 5-10 degrees (although your fan setup is less focused, so it may not be as efficient, I dunno). It's why the guns aren't as good as realtime or near real time displays you can see as you play. Also SpookyLuke is correct that the coil temps are a bit different from one end to the other, so a left, center, right reading will be slightly different.

But again, as long as you're under the threshold of fade around 140F, it's all academic hair-splitting.

Yeah mate, about 20 seconds for the game end sequence, if that.

I do get that they would cool down, I didn't dawdle, and it would have had virtually zero effect on the upper one so far away in those brief moments. I turned the game off so that the fan stopped, of course. The thermals there show the localised temperature variances across the coil as well, to some degree. Some bits obscured of course, and they may be hotter. If I had not been quick then those images would not be showing such distinct hot spots as the temperature normalises (spreads or evens out) more with time.

The camera allows me to search for the hottest spot then take a snap. As you can see by the colour scale, moving just a little bit away from the centre hot spot to a different portion of the coil body gives a temp of less than 100F at that same moment, so yes the measuring tool definately makes a difference, I could hunt out the hottest part visually. It could also be argued that strapping a probe to the side creates an un-natural hot spot, or build up point, giving a different kind of error margin. Either way it's all in a sort of ball park

So, I think the temps are quite good here all things considered. Not that my game ever suffered serious flipper fade, the fan was as much with the idea of cooling those bbq plate p-roc boards pressed up against the playfield.

Don't worry it is all sweet!. Just reporting the findings after an almost continuous 4 hour session on the aggressive range. Verdict: I thought the temps would have been much higher given the pretty extreme non stop use and switching to aggressive. . Very happy indeed with how the flippers were working after 3 hours solid, it is fantastic!!

Good work EP

It's all a bit strange as with all the technological advancements, the good old flipper is still causing a major headache for so many manufacturers.

Played most titles of the last few years and the only flippers I really like are Stern ones.

All the others in their own way, don't 'feel' right.

Hope you guys get a few more updates as it's so close to the finish line now.