(Topic ID: 257850)

Official Rick and Morty Club - You are not like other carbon based life forms.

By TheNoTrashCougar

1 year ago


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There are 16,603 posts in this topic. You are on page 220 of 333.
#10951 9 months ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Yes. Buried there are guys who thought pinball machines shouldn't be delivered in winter.

Couldn't help it LOL

#10952 9 months ago

Topper question. Is it normal for the green flashers to dimly light sometimes? I feel like the shaker motor or something else is causing them to light up slightly. They flash normally when the topper portal is spinning.

#10953 9 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Topper question. Is it normal for the green flashers to dimly light sometimes? I feel like the shaker motor or something else is causing them to light up slightly. They flash normally when the topper portal is spinning.

They are normally off unless the spinning/flashing is happening.

#10954 9 months ago
Quoted from metallik:

WMS had this figured out with Fliptronics and dual-wound coils. They'd warm up and get a little weaker under heavy play, but nothing like we're seeing these days. That system costs more to make, so we're stuck with the current crummy designs
JJP used dual-wound on WOZ but left out the Fliptronics part and JJP flippers were never as good as WPC. Stern flippers are driven better but get hot and weaken too much. Spooky uses WPC assemblies but P-ROC doesn't drive them nearly as well as Fliptronics did.

So it seems like the obvious question would be: is a WMS Fliptronics system compatible with the P-ROC used by Spooky, and if so, what is actually needed for the conversion? I'm assuming the stock WMS Fliptronics board is not exactly plug-and-play compatible to P-ROC.

BUT - and I mean no disrespect to PinMonk / pinmonk - if such a conversion were comparable in price, I'd rather have Fliptronics than coolers.

(might have time to figure this out before my game is built... snap to it! )

#10955 9 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Your product seems cool, literally, but wouldn't it be awesome if pinball companies figured out how to design a full fidelity flipper that generates much less heat? If a game is being played for 60-90 minutes, it shouldn't require being fanned to function properly. It's 2021! Lower power consumption, higher performance...maybe we need Apple to solve this problem

I think there is a way to make flipper coils SLOWER to heat up, especially in hold mode for players that trap a lot, but not to eliminate it without external help like the cooling fans to dissipate heat.

Stern is doing something new/different with their Spike machines because they gain almost no temperature in hold. THE most surprising thing I've learned since I started down this rabbit hole. On SPIKE machines can hold for 30 minutes and gain 1F where you'd gain 50F or more with a Spooky/JJP doing the same thing, or god forbid a SAM/Whitestar Stern where you'd blow a transistor or fuse if you tried that. I'm GUESSING that it has something to do with the duty cycle they're using, but I haven't tested that yet. I'm very interested to see what the flipper hold duty cycle is on B/W vs SPIKE (Stern) vs Spooky/American (PROC) vs JJP and see if those results lines up with the temps observed.

But hold improvements aside, due to the way coils work, they're going to be subject to the laws of thermodynamics and generate heat over time as a byproduct of the action, and as the resistance in the coils builds up from the heat itself in a kind of feedback loop.

#10956 9 months ago
Quoted from mariobeans:

Keep apple far away from pinball.
They design their products to be extremely difficult to repair so they can talk you into upgrading instead of actually repairing the damaged components.
Follow the right to repair group and boycott apple

My point, which you have a difficult time groking, is Apple's M1 Chip is freaking amazing (https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/19/21574057/apple-m1-chips-laptop-performance-intel-qualcomm-competition). Very low power consumption, very high performance and amazing battery life.

I'm proud to be a 20 year veteran of the company you apparently don't like. Have fun boycotting products from one of the best companies on the planet!

#10957 9 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

My point, which you have a difficult time groking, is Apple's M1 Chip is freaking amazing (https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/19/21574057/apple-m1-chips-laptop-performance-intel-qualcomm-competition). Very low power consumption, very high performance and amazing battery life.

But no moving parts and very low power. Apples to oranges.

#10958 9 months ago
Quoted from metallik:

WMS had this figured out with Fliptronics and dual-wound coils. They'd warm up and get a little weaker under heavy play, but nothing like we're seeing these days. That system costs more to make, so we're stuck with the current crummy designs
JJP used dual-wound on WOZ but left out the Fliptronics part and JJP flippers were never as good as WPC. Stern flippers are driven better but get hot and weaken too much. Spooky uses WPC assemblies but P-ROC doesn't drive them nearly as well as Fliptronics did.
Spooky: I'll happily pay $100 more per title if you start using Fliptronics boards. No reason to skimp on the most important part of the game.

Interesting background. Thank you. It is interesting that using the WMS flipper mechs without the WMS electronics just doesn't produce great results. The flippers on my STTNG are so much better than my DILE or R&M, yet I believe they use the same mechs.

I too, would gladly pay $100 for WMS feel flippers. Amen!

#10959 9 months ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

But no moving parts and very low power. Apples to oranges.

Not the point. The point is R&D...innovation. Obviously, different industries, but pinball has been around FOREVER and use to PUSH technology. Now, it's pathetic how we have a hodgepodge of mechs/electronics that don't work as good as the WMS products did 30 years ago. That's my point. Apple is always iterating and improving. Pinball is just focused on slapping stuff together from days gone by. I understand research can be expensive, but slapping half-baked fans on our flippers is just pathetic...I'm sorry if that offends you or anyone else.

#10960 9 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Not the point. The point is R&D...innovation. Obviously, different industries, but pinball has been around FOREVER and use to PUSH technology. Now, it's pathetic how we have a hodgepodge of mechs/electronics that don't work as good as the WMS products did 30 years ago. That's my point. Apple is always iterating and improving. Pinball is just focused on slapping stuff together from days gone by. I understand research can be expensive, but...

I think it's a combination of duty cycle plus the fact that modern games have MUCH deeper code now and are played for an hour or more per game if you're very good, where the classic B/W games are much shorter beginning to end overall. But I'm convinced a large part of the difference between JJP/PROC/SPIKE temps and classic fliptronics temps is mainly the duty cycle. I just have to prove it.

All of that said, however, classic B/W games DO fade if you trap enough and play long games. They're not magically exempt from the laws of thermodynamics. They just seem to manage it better.

#10961 9 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

My point, which you have a difficult time groking, is Apple's M1 Chip is freaking amazing (https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/19/21574057/apple-m1-chips-laptop-performance-intel-qualcomm-competition). Very low power consumption, very high performance and amazing battery life.
I'm proud to be a 20 year veteran of the company you apparently don't like. Have fun boycotting products from one of the best companies on the planet!

Thank You for making all those wonderful products. I personally don't Care how hard they are to take apart and service because who would have guessed, a Good product rarely if ever Needs to be taken apart. Who would have knew! Have the same iMac for 12 years runs like the day I bought it. Thanks.

#10962 9 months ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

I think it's a combination of duty cycle plus the fact that modern games have MUCH deeper code now and are played for an hour or more per game if you're very good, where the classic B/W games are much shorter beginning to end overall. But I'm convinced a large part of the difference between JJP/PROC/SPIKE temps and classic fliptronics temps is mainly the duty cycle. I just have to prove it.

fwiw, I'm really impressed with your approach for measuring all this shit. The analysis you do is impressive and I understand you are trying to solve a problem you didn't create God job, Morty

#10963 9 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

fwiw, I'm really impressed with your approach for measuring all this shit. The analysis you do is impressive and I understand you are trying to solve a problem you didn't create God job, Morty

Yeah, it's really a crazy side trip. Never intended to be making cooling kits or trying to understand why flipper coils are getting so hot and how SPIKE has somehow cracked the code on managing trap up hold temps, but I think there's an answer there that will help get more reasonable flipper temps on long games by managing the main pulse and the hold cycle better. I'm just shocked that none of the current pin manufacturers have done this investigation work on their own system! It's not brain surgery, it just requires some methodical investigation and can really help their products!

Lucky for them I'm a very good driver.

#10964 9 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Thank You for making all those wonderful products. I personally don't Care how hard they are to take apart and service because who would have guessed, a Good product rarely if ever Needs to be taken apart. Who would have knew! Have the same iMac for 12 years runs like the day I bought it. Thanks.

I appreciate your kind words, and I also have no problem with people that are offended by Apple. Different strokes.

Power consumption is obviously a big issue on many levels. One of the things that has always bothered me is the intense heat that cable boxes generate...even when you aren't watching the TV! It's insane, considering almost every home has a cable box. I replaced my cable box with a very cool running AppleTV/YouTubeTV and have never looked back. If everyone had a cool running TV box, we'd save a lot of wasted energy!

#10965 9 months ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Yeah, it's really a crazy side trip. Never intended to be making cooling kits or trying to understand why flipper coils are getting so hot and how SPIKE has somehow cracked the code on managing trap up hold temps, but I think there's an answer there that will help get more reasonable flipper temps on long games. I'm just shocked that none of the current pin manufacturers have done this. It's not brain surgery, it just requires some methodical investigation and can really help their products!
Lucky for them I'm a very good driver.

I hear you. I solved my share of complex software problems in the Apple runtime/OS over the years. In so many cases, the solutions were obvious once you had the right measurement tools and data. As Steve use to say, not "rocket science"

#10966 9 months ago

I'm Mr. Bulldog, take a shit on the floor, take off your panties....

#10967 9 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I appreciate your kind words, and I also have no problem with people that are offended by Apple. Different strokes.

While we're talking Apple, please walk over and slap whoever is in charge of the HomePod software. We're trying to get off Echos due to Amazons privacy abuses and terrible Sidewalk initiative, but Apple is making it REALLY HARD. Whoever thought running the Homepod processing off specific user's phones has never used it in a family in real life. I don't care who wants to add something to the shopping list, and neither should the HomePod. REALLY bad real world usability (they don't have the per user nonsense in Apple Europe's HomePods, BTW).

#10968 9 months ago

....it's time to get Schwifty!

12
#10969 9 months ago
Quoted from RobT:

This score almost doubled my prior high score...but I obviously still have a long way to go. My goal is to get to the 100 mil mark.
[quoted image]

Finally made it!

And then some...

#10970 9 months ago
Quoted from RobT:

Finally made it!
And then some...

Amazing score! I think my high score is roughly half that...

#10971 9 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Amazing score! I think my high score is roughly half that...

So was mine before this game. Funny thing is that the pin seemed to be kicking my ass even harder than normal the last week, then out of the blue, this happened.

#10972 9 months ago

So, I have a strange problem. If my game is off and I leave it plugged in I get a thump through the speaker system every 2-3 minutes. If I unplug the cable to the amp it goes away. I have plugged and unplugged the audio cable both on the computer and the amp to make sure they are properly seated with no change. Anyone else experience this?

#10973 9 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:Not the point. The point is R&D...innovation. Obviously, different industries, but pinball has been around FOREVER and use to PUSH technology. Now, it's pathetic how we have a hodgepodge of mechs/electronics that don't work as good as the WMS products did 30 years ago. That's my point. Apple is always iterating and improving. Pinball is just focused on slapping stuff together from days gone by. I understand research can be expensive, but slapping half-baked fans on our flippers is just pathetic...I'm sorry if that offends you or anyone else.

Uh oh, now you have crossed over into Deeproot territory. Deeproot holds all of the patents on innovation and no one else is allowed to go there. Now, if you want an actual pinball machine to play, then we know that non-innovation works. If you want innovation, then we can pretend to play pinball with all of the innovation that Deeproot has produced.

#10974 9 months ago
Quoted from Coyohtay:

So, I have a strange problem. If my game is off and I leave it plugged in I get a thump through the speaker system every 2-3 minutes. If I unplug the cable to the amp it goes away. I have plugged and unplugged the audio cable both on the computer and the amp to make sure they are properly seated with no change. Anyone else experience this?

Anything plugged into the service outlet in the cabinet?

#10975 9 months ago
Quoted from Calfdemon:

Uh oh, now you have crossed over into Deeproot territory. Deeproot holds all of the patents on innovation and no one else is allowed to go there. Now, if you want an actual pinball machine to play, then we know that non-innovation works. If you want innovation, then we can pretend to play pinball with all of the innovation that Deeproot has produced.

Cute. I don't even know who Deeproot is. My point was simple, it's pathetic that flippers in a home use environment need fans to achieve full performance. A pin in a heavily traveled free play arcade is another story (where the game might be played continuously for 8 hours).

#10976 9 months ago

How come I never win a Mexican Armada?
It's all I want.

#10977 9 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Cute. I don't even know who Deeproot is. My point was simple, it's pathetic that flippers in a home use environment need fans to achieve full performance. A pin in a heavily traveled free play arcade is another story (where the game might be played continuously for 8 hours).

Oh my... I am sorry to lead you down this rabbit hole that opened up over 3 years ago now. But if you are into drama, hyperbole, comical missteps, and a situation that just keeps on giving, step on in... Warning, 321 pages and counting.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution

#10978 9 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Cute. I don't even know who Deeproot is. My point was simple, it's pathetic that flippers in a home use environment need fans to achieve full performance. A pin in a heavily traveled free play arcade is another story (where the game might be played continuously for 8 hours).

Well, I disagree that in normal home use they are needed. Unless your house is a hotbox. Most people aren't playing a single machine for 2-3 hours on end. If you are a streamer, I get it, but otherwise, most people simply don't need them. I've been monitoring my temps, and after an hour or so, the flipper coils are not at all hot to the touch (I don't have a way to take the actual temp, but I would assume something that is 130+ degrees would be hot to the touch). Now, having said that, the ambient temperature in the room it is in right now is probably around 65, so I'm sure that helps.

#10979 9 months ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Anything plugged into the service outlet in the cabinet?

Nope, nothing extra plugged into that. it seems like something in the system is building up and discharging. Wonder if it is the power supply doing that? I need to trace the wiring out and see what could possibly still be hot even with the cabinet power switch off. Also sent a tech question to spooky to see what they come up with.

#10980 9 months ago
Quoted from Coyohtay:

Nope, nothing extra plugged into that. it seems like something in the system is building up and discharging. Wonder if it is the power supply doing that? I need to trace the wiring out and see what could possibly still be hot even with the cabinet power switch off. Also sent a tech question to spooky to see what they come up with.

Yeah, that's why I asked if anything was plugged into the service outlet. Is your house ground for outlets solid or is it an older house?

#10981 9 months ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Well, I disagree that in normal home use they are needed. Unless your house is a hotbox. Most people aren't playing a single machine for 2-3 hours on end. If you are a streamer, I get it, but otherwise, most people simply don't need them. I've been monitoring my temps, and after an hour or so, the flipper coils are not at all hot to the touch (I don't have a way to take the actual temp, but I would assume something that is 130+ degrees would be hot to the touch). Now, having said that, the ambient temperature in the room it is in right now is probably around 65, so I'm sure that helps.

The temp in my house is 75 year round. In a COVID world, my machine is typically on for 30 minutes. Like you, I don't have a problem. That said, I use to host tournaments, and in that setting, the fans would likely be useful. It's also interesting to see so many folks get the fans, so I guess people want the head room that they would provide for parties, tournaments, whatever.

#10982 9 months ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Yeah, that's why I asked if anything was plugged into the service outlet. Is your house ground for outlets solid or is it an older house?

90s house. all the wiring for the arcade is new this past summer with 2 separate 20 amp circuits for the arcade alone. This machine is plugged into the GFCI. The machine has done this since I purchased it, I just was keeping it unplugged when not in use, but now its become time to figure this out. TNA doesn't have this behavior. I'm going to track down what inside the cab is 'hot' and see if maybe there's something being picked up by an unshielded cable (which is everything really). There are a lot of high voltage wires run with low voltage and signal wires. might be time to separate those out into different bundles and do some wire route cleanup.

#10983 9 months ago
Quoted from Coyohtay:

90s house. all the wiring for the arcade is new this past summer with 2 separate 20 amp circuits for the arcade alone. This machine is plugged into the GFCI. The machine has done this since I purchased it, I just was keeping it unplugged when not in use, but now its become time to figure this out. TNA doesn't have this behavior. I'm going to track down what inside the cab is 'hot' and see if maybe there's something being picked up by an unshielded cable (which is everything really). There are a lot of high voltage wires run with low voltage and signal wires. might be time to separate those out into different bundles and do some wire route cleanup.

Pretty crazy.

I'd be sure to check BOTH power supplies. Maybe take a picture so you know how to put it back then disconnect everything from the front of the large 48V power supply and then wait and see if it happens, then if it still does, hook all that back up (correctly according to your pictures!) and do the same process for the small 12v/5v power supply as well and see if you still get the issue with the output from that completely disconnected.

Also, do you have very dry air with lots of static electricity? What's the humidity level in the room?

#10984 9 months ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Pretty crazy.
I'd be sure to check BOTH power supplies. Maybe take a picture so you know how to put it back then disconnect everything from the front of the large 48V power supply and then wait and see if it happens, then if it still does, hook all that back up (correctly according to your pictures!) and do the same process for the small 12v/5v power supply as well and see if you still get the issue with the output from that completely disconnected.
Also, do you have very dry air with lots of static electricity?

Humidity is pretty low down there, we'll see. I plan to connect an external boom box to the RCA jacks on the amp first to see if the system thumps those speakers. Eliminate the internal amp at the very least

#10985 9 months ago

Those are all great strategies.

I will say that I noticed I was getting distortion/hum through the amp/speakers when the machine wasn't making any noise. I re-routed the aux-input cord that runs from the motherboard to the amp, sending it along the player's left side of the cabinet and it immediately went away.

#10986 9 months ago

Quick thought re. Flipper Heat:

Perhaps eliminating the Flipper Cancel for Mode Starts/Vids, make it the Launcher or MagnetSave Button? I know most peoplewho are canceling out tend do mash the buttons on the flippers a bunch while waiting for gameplay to resume?

Not a ton of flips...but every little bit has to help?

#10987 9 months ago
Quoted from Zablon:

They are normally off unless the spinning/flashing is happening.

Right, it’s really subtle & clearly unintentional. Like a ghosting LED effect. Next time your shaker is going off, look at your topper. Or try the shaker in the coil test and let me know if you see anything.

#10988 9 months ago
Quoted from guitarded:

Quick thought re. Flipper Heat:
Perhaps eliminating the Flipper Cancel for Mode Starts/Vids, make it the Launcher or MagnetSave Button? I know most peoplewho are canceling out tend do mash the buttons on the flippers a bunch while waiting for gameplay to resume?
Not a ton of flips...but every little bit has to help?

My *guess* would be that doesn't add much to the overall heat progression.

#10989 9 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Right, it’s really subtle & clearly unintentional. Like a ghosting LED effect. Next time your shaker is going off, look at your topper. Or try the shaker in the coil test and let me know if you see anything.

I always notice the topper flashers very dimly lighting up when the shaker goes off during the match sequence after a game.

#10990 9 months ago
Quoted from pmppk:

I always notice the topper flashers very dimly lighting up when the shaker goes off during the match sequence after a game.

Cool. Maybe it’s just a normal thing then.

0C48FE09-CFC0-4040-A5D5-609926E34162.jpeg
#10991 9 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Cool. Maybe it’s just a normal thing then.
[quoted image]

Yes mine is the same, easy to test, run the shaker in test and look up . I posted about this ages ago but the post just went by un-noticed. Looks just like LED ghosting, I haven't seen that for a while.

#10992 9 months ago
Quoted from Kevlar:

Yes mine is the same, easy to test, run the shaker in test and look up . I posted about this ages ago but the post just went by un-noticed. Looks just like LED ghosting, I haven't seen that for a while.

Several of the flashers (the topper included) actually run as ‘coils’ because we had the extra spots on the driver board available. So they’re weird.

#10993 9 months ago

Is the third flipper supposed to have an EOS switch?

11
#10994 9 months ago

Got it on ebay. Cheap doormat mod!

20210217_162916 (resized).jpg
#10995 9 months ago
Quoted from marspinball:

Got it on ebay. Cheap doormat mod!
[quoted image]

I have the same mat for mine... Now I just need to get my game! It's paid in full and getting closer every day, I can feel it!

#10996 9 months ago
Quoted from marspinball:

Is the third flipper supposed to have an EOS switch?

No.

10
#10997 9 months ago

I took delivery of #504 today. Opened the box for delivery inspection and was greeted by a Cromulon.

20210219_120504 (resized).jpg

#10998 9 months ago

Dupe post.

#10999 9 months ago
Quoted from Rum-Z:

I took delivery of #504 today. Opened the box for delivery inspection ans was greeted by a Cromulon.
[quoted image]

You know what he’s thinking, right?

“I like what you got” good job!!!!

Perfect timing for the weekend!
Enjoy it.

#11000 9 months ago
Quoted from snaroff:

My point, which you have a difficult time groking, is Apple's M1 Chip is freaking amazing (https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/19/21574057/apple-m1-chips-laptop-performance-intel-qualcomm-competition). Very low power consumption, very high performance and amazing battery life.
I'm proud to be a 20 year veteran of the company you apparently don't like. Have fun boycotting products from one of the best companies on the planet!

I've been curious how their new chips are performing. Didnt they move away from intel?

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