Got some time on our game this weekend and what a blast. Great job Spooky. Hilarious, difficult to master and so fun when you get it rocking. Just like everyone said the theme immersion is second to none. A few friends who could care less about pinball, couldn't stop talking about it and playing it.

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Holly WOW what an awesome looking place. Just added to my bucket list. Well done.

please put me down for one. Thank you

Okay a few things have popped up:

1. left flipper seems to stick in the up position at times
2. occasionally...the flippers will drop down when the ball hits them (like half way). I know I've seen people mention this as something to do with the EOS..but not clear on what.
3. Is there no form of ball search on this? I've had 2 different instances where 2 balls have been in the center trough, and at a different time 2 in the portal trough and it won't eject them. Center trough will fix itself on reboot, but the portal trough won't fix itself w/o going into service. (i'm on 12/2020 code)

1. Newer code should fix this, the sticking used to be an issue if the EOS was fluttered.

2. Seems to be normal for P-Roc games flippers to collapse a bit, and the pop and scoop hit them hard. You can adjust the flipper EOS to close later to help alleviate it a bit.

3. Sounds like a switch issue, haven't seen anything like that on my game. There's a January code update, I'd install that and see if the issue persists.

The upper flipper doesn't use an EOS, and my upper flipper get's bitten my this issue. I tweaked the software setting that's suppose to help with this and noticed a slight improvement.

My son is visiting and absolutely loves the game but called this out as being weird/annoying. I hope a more complete solution is developed...it's really annoying...especially when playing multi balls.

I recommend fixing your brushing. That should help resolve flipper issues.

I was one of the first to find/fix the bushing problem. Has nothing to do with flipper fallback.

Oh yes, you were, apologies... I didn't notice you were the one that was posting. You've been pretty much on top of most of this. I'm not sure if this will help, but for the lower flippers, I slightly lowered the coil strength for the scoop kickout... It didn't change the speed much but did help with the lower flippers dipping.

It's interesting, the scoop is less problematic for me, but thanks for the support. The upper flipper is more annoying...when the ball loops around the right orbit/diverter and gets delivered to the upper flipper, it falls back pretty often. Super annoying, since fixing the ball guide to actually deliver the ball to the upper flipper was a PITA

I've owned well over 50 games, and not one has had this weird fallback behavior. Seems like a problem with the platform (i.e. hardware/software combo). Hopefully the problem can be solved.

I haven't noticed it on the upper flipper, but as was mentioned it mostly happens during multiballs, and in those instances I'm staring at the lower flippers and usually ignoring the upper flipper.

Could it be something with the software lowering the power when the flipper reaches full flip thus not holding it in place?

I debated posting this as it's another negative take on this game from me, but this is the owners thread and I'm an owner and just need to vent and give my first week thoughts.

I've put about 100 games in since receiving last week and I'm annoyed by a lot of things on this machine, especially those requiring extra money to fix:

1. Air balls off the left and right ramps. One protector for the upper part of the right ramp, and two protectors needed for the entrances of each. - $34USD
2. Flippers losing strength incredibly fast, even outside of multi-balls. If I play for 10 minutes outside of a multi-ball, I am unable to backhand the right ramp. Aftermarket cooling solution is now needed. - $115-170USD (2-3 flipper kit)
3. The stock fan is AGGRESSIVELY loud and high-pitched. - $17USD
4. Leg protectors to protect the cabinet from its own legs. I had a January build and this is still a problem with the legs. - $10USD.

Total = $176-231USD - Good for PinMonk and other modders (Thank you), bad for me.

Add this on to the growing list of aftermarket adjustments that are needed after receiving it.

1. The garage shot from the upper flipper may as well not exist on my machine. Maybe the upper flipper isn't situated correctly, but it looks to be in line with the ball guide as mentioned in key posts.
2. The character standup targets are basically dead from the factory and needed to be adjusted to be more sensitive to hits.
3. The flipper switches needed adjustment to prevent drooping when hit.
4. The right loop garage shot was essentially half-closed by an open ball guide that needed to be bent to even make the shot.
5. The scoop rejects 3/5 times. I've bent the top down bit, but still need to place washers underneath to lower it into the playfield.
6. Flippers are way too high off the playfield (is this causing issues with all my shots?). Thankfully, Spooky is doing the right thing and sending replacements out to those in need.

If everything is working and you happen to have just started a game with fresh flipper strength, it can be very addictive and truly has that "one more game" feeling to it, even with all the frustrations. I'm still happy to have it, will likely be with me for a very long time, and can't wait for future updates.

I thought the leg issue was fixed with new builds?

I thought they would be too, but the legs were still touching the cabinet on the front, so I ordered some felt protectors to prevent damage.

I'm fairly sure the reverse inner orbit should be set up to brush across the rubber post. If this is not the case, you should adjust... Hitting the rubber will pitch the ball up slightly.

7. Switch in upper-right corner registers maybe half the time, meaning half the upper loops you shoot don't count. MRS will fix this (additional cost)
8. Clean shots to right orbit will catch the edge of the wall poking out on the left, or other things, and basically die and fail to make it around
9. Ball gets jammed under shooter wireform
10. Ball launch inconsistent due to launch wireform moving around slightly and dampening launch power
11. Ship plastic breaks prematurely

I'm with you... I love the game when it works, totally addicting gameplay... but man, this is worse than RZ in terms of post-purchase twiddling and fixes needed. TnA seemed pretty solid out of the gate; I had similar hopes for R&M.... It's still a keeper, just a bit frustrating.

Oh God, I forgot about these too. $50USD shooter rail that "Isn't needed" but seriously, the current one sucks. I also bought an extra ship plastic for the inevitable break.

Basically, both garage shots are unreliable which almost breaks the game. Even if you shoot it clean you're still hoping it doesn't wobble and reject.

Not my understanding. Scott confirmed the ball is suppose to be delivered to the upper flipper, which implies it shouldn't be hitting the rubber post.

I keep running back to play it after I comment to make sure I'm not just caught in a streak of bad luck. Each time I'm met with the same frustrations no matter how well I play.

The fact is, those two shots already require a very precise and clean shot to make. Add in these other factors and you might rip your hair out.

Terry stopped selling them over the weekend because people were commenting on facebook how this part should be included with the stock game (not as a mod). I wish he would change his mind.

Spooky, I’m #520, please don’t send me a game with legs that are going to ruin my cabinet or a game where the flippers are not set correctly. I’ll wait longer if necessary.

I’ve already bought fans and anti-rattle tape, don’t want to spend anymore money fixing issues that should be right from the start. This is the most expensive game I’ve ever bought...

I think every owner understands your frustration to a degree. It's a fun game, but I think the response of "That's the way it was designed" to various flaws has been too much.

Spooky put new legs in the mail for me this week, so big props to them on that, and I think they'll get the bushing thing ironed out, too. The shooter wireform should be replaced. You can make the original work, but doesn't mean it's not bad design.

My biggest gripe, while we're venting: I don't like the way the flippers feel. I did all the adjustments. Understand EOS switches. I still get knockdown and they feel weak, and not just from fade. I'm dying for "normal" strong-feeling flippers in this game. I think that would really help a lot.

Flipper collapse/knockdown is part of the P-ROC system for now. Its not Spokky's fault, its just something to work trough.

Dual wound coils might be the only way to fix it, instead of pulse control.

Its taken years to address this on Houdini, and its all but been eliminated with parts and code improvement.
Still there a little but vastly improved.

I don't think this is the place for that. You should contact spooky directly if you want them to read this

Went to buy it today and then came here once I coulnt find it, then looked on facebook. A little disappointed in PL but I understand. I dont have my game yet and Im still surprised on some of the issues people are having even after ~500+ games have shipped. Im not complaining and am very much looking forward to getting my game but instead being excited to flip it I seem to be planning to fixing it first...

Did anyone get the modified shooter wireform yet? It came with more pieces than I was anticipating and now I'm not entirely sure how I'm supposed to install it. What are the extra screw and the black plastic piece for?

If any game was ever worth the effort to get "dialed in," it's this one!

Am I wrong that the combination of features is unique? Between the Adventures, Dimensions, Meeseeks, and the Megaseeds, there is always so much going on! Add to that the Danesi lock, ball fondling, the Antigrav, and the Slam pop with earnable Save. It's just a riot!

The Adventures are brilliant, shining examples of theme integration. Very creative. Not tied down to only so many by some insert count, either. I hope more and more get added as the seasons go by, I'll happily pay extra for them at some point.

The Dimensions are also amazing, so much innovation going on, with the lighting, the feature modifying and of course the silly noises and/or cool music.

The Meeseeks are hilarious, another super creative idea, with limitless possibilities for multiplying shots since it stacks with everything, even Mania with the other multiball.

The Megaseeds are fantastic as well, I love how the bonus percentage builds and builds, and lasts all game. I've gotten to 30 seeds, basically a 2.5x scoring multiplier!

Gotta love the Danesi lock 2.0. The U turn is a beast! I've turned on the ball save for that, though I guess we shouldn't be hitting it when the lock is inactive. I'd like to see some reward for hitting it, even just maybe a "superfluous loop count" high score entry.

But when it becomes a physical ball lock, it really shines. The addition of "ball fondling" to increase future jackpots is brilliant. And when multiball starts with three balls screaming towards the flippers, it's just nuts.

As for the Antigrav, my old brain took like a month to wire up the reflex to remember to use the damn thing! Which I thought was odd, as my very first game was a Black Knight back in 1990, and I thought I'd pick the magnet thing right back up, so that was frustrating. But now that the neural pathway is reestablished, it is so cool! So fun making that ball whip back over into play, even during multiballs! And I finally realized that the meter isn't just a time indicator, the magnet is actually stronger the fuller it is (and weak when it is low). Ingenious!

I've never had so much fun with a game, and I still need to figure out what's wack with the right loop diverter, fix the flipper bushings, address the garage and drain ball traps, etc...

Well said. Thank you for saying exactly what I like about this game, but didn’t have time to write out.

But again, this is just saying "That's the way it's designed." and not admitting there's a problem.

I don't know how to make my own coils so guess I have to wait to buy some more mods?

Ok, so if Terry wont sell the improved wireform:

Who is making it and how does one order it directly?

Yeah, I had it in my cart and went to check out... removed from cart. I have no complaints about it not being included from factory, I saw the machine as proposed and purchased - this is a modification I thought was a fair price and value added. Oh well.

mine too, I was going to buy it today with a lot of other parts I was getting together.

I agree, thought the price was fair. These days buying ANYTHING for a pin for $50 (or less) is rare!

Luckily I bought mine last week when they were available. I don't have my game yet, but know this is something I wanted to fix out the gate.

If I play R&M a couple of streams in a row, I keep trying to use the Antigrav button on other machines!

I *think* it's a ball hang up post to fill in the different location for the original wireframe's screw in the side rail - at least that's where I put it.

Used the black large head screw into the side rail. Put the longer back screw through the post and into the old screw hole.

Not Spooky's fault? Sorry, hard to sympathize with that perspective. How are customers expected to "work trough" flipper fallback?

Every part in the game is there because Spooky chose it! If the Houdini flippers were made to work properly, R&M flippers can be made to work properly. Period.

Again, I love this game, but Spooky needs to fix the flipper fallback, just like they are fixing the flipper bushings. I understand one might be trickier technically, but it's unacceptable to not give us some hope they know how to fix the flipper fallback.

You may have the only one, worth 10k by Christmas!

It's interesting the various issues that do or don't plague people...

I have not had an issue with air balls on ramps.

I've had no issues with the shooter lane, it works exactly as expected

I do have issues with center rejects, but I looked and it is already lowered than what they used to send them.

My flippers do not seem weak at all. In fact I thought they may need turned down. My MBr flippers seem weaker than R&M. I have not noticed any flipper fade that I can tell. I do have a cheap pair of headphone fans on it - but I don't always turn them on and I never noticed it prior to putting them on.

Some shots are more problematic than others. Some of it the rattling that may occur on the orbits. I am thinking that the left garage shot does probably need adjusted, but I'm not clear on what is hanging the ball up. It seems pretty rounded, and follows the art pretty closely. The only thing that seems to stand out is the end of it is about 1/2" (or more) away from the post which seems too far to me. That being said I can land them pretty regularly. The hardest shot for me seems to be that center roundabout on the right side. Posts all day.

What I have had issues with are the switches themselves and the balls getting stuck on the wires.

Also if I miss a shot - 90% of the time it's returning to me down the center - but that is more on me I would say.

Glad to hear you’re remaining positive.

I’ve just preemptively purchased the Pinmonk fans and already have the CPU fan ready to go. Hoping this is all I’ll need to have a well playing R&M when it finally arrives. Pretty disheartening having to keep ponying up for what already is a very expensive toy, but I’m sure all of that will be forgotten soon enough.

I'd like to know what the difference in operation is in comparison to Stern flippers which do not have this collapsing issue.

The power supply is basically the same.. 48v and plenty of amperge. If I were to replace the entire Spooky flipper assembly with a Stern assembly, would the flipper behave the same as a Stern and not fallback unless under extreme duress? If not, is it possible to connect a scope to the flipper coil drive of a Stern and see exactly how they can PWM their flippers without collapse? It's electricity, a coil, a transistor and code. Data East got PWM flippers working in the 80s, why can't P-ROC get them working just as well decades later?

I pre bought the fan as well, but let me tell you...that ps fan is always drowned out by the topper motor.

Exactly. Why not collaborate with the P-ROC provider to solve this problem? Based on another comment, Houdini had this problem as well? If so, the solution should be shared with other P-ROC platforms. Just shocking to me that this isn't getting more airplay.

Again, my son just visited me and just started playing the game and immediately commented on how odd and disorienting the flipper fallback is. It's already a tough game, and bugs like this shouldn't make the game more difficult.

Flipper fallback really sucks during multi-balls. Never experienced this on any Stern or Bally/Williams games.

For Houdini, the game was designed with flippers without EOS switches. All hold power was determined by software. Hold strength was a game setting, and I found that bumping this up to max cleared up most problems for me. On top of that, adding EOS switches was expected to clear up the remaining knockbacks that would occur only on the hardest hit. I sold my Houdini right after installing, so can't really be sure the problem went away completely. I not sure the severity with R&M as I am still waiting for my game, but for Houdini, a hard hit would cause an up flipper to completely drop and would not be usable again until the flipper button was released and re-pressed. This makes sense when you think without an EOS switch, only the flipper button gives an indication to switch to hold power. So my guess is, the R&M behavior is way better than what Houdini was out of the box.

Interesting, I never had this problem on TNA which is also the same hardware as R&M (and theoretically the same control software?).

I played R&M on location at the Electric bat arcade in Tempe, AZ and didn't experience any issues with the flippers. They felt just as strong if not stronger than your typical Williams/Bally flippers and made for excellent and fast play. The same can be said for their TNA that I played (such a thrill!)

Perhaps this is only an issue with certain machines? I didn't see what # the build was on the one I played. I'm sure Spooky will do whatever it takes to make this right.

When I first got my game the topper motor turned at a slow speed an I could barely hear it. Even made a comment to a friend I couldnt understand why everyone complained about it.. then one day mid game that sucker took off like it was trying to open a real portal an now I see the complaints..

I'm not sure what changed in mine from when I got it to now but maybe it's possible to put a resistor or somethjng in line with the motor to slow it down and make it a little quieter

If I can get my hands on one of those toppers, it's on my "to make quiet" list.

The problem would still be there with Spike flipper hardware. It has to do with how P-Roc3/Spooky handle the flipper coils. I don't know if it's a firmware/hardware issue with P-ROC3 and there's a number of potential workarounds or if it's straight-up how it's being handled in the software for R&M, but it's a problem on P-ROC3 machines. Houdini definitely had it at least through the time we sold it.