Jupiter, FL
Do games with the butter cabinet get shipped blanket wrapped?
(Topic ID: 257850)
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Rick and Morty (Blood Sucker Edition)
Spooky Pinball, 2020-
Rick and Morty (Standard)
Spooky Pinball, 2020
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Just joined the club...#175. The pinball gods were shining on me...picked this up locally NIB. Spooky blanket wraps the butter cabinets to perfection. First time I've ever seen a "butter" cabinet. Really beautiful. The cabinet artwork is just stunning, and I like how it's unique on each side. Sweet.
Need to fiddle with the audio...sounds awful out-of-the-box (as others have discussed in this thread). Tried simply turning down the volume, but that didn't help much.
IMG_2695 (resized).jpegIMG_2704 (resized).jpegSpent this afternoon solving my R&M audio issues. Solution cost $10
I purchased this spacer from Amazon and bought 4 2" screws to accommodate the spacer/cabinet: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013NWD0S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00
Installation is a little tedious, here are some highlights:
- The speaker grill is stapled with 32 small staples! Removing them was a PITA
- Needed to move the shaker board over to accommodate the spacer. Simple.
- Decided to move the amp and fasten it to the wood divider with velcro (the amp is ultra light). Might come up with a better solution later. Having easy access to the amp controls from the coin door made a HUGE difference, since I could fiddle with the sound while the game was playing. I realize my location interferes with the coin box cover, but it doesn't matter since it's in my home, not an arcade.
- Dealing with the nuts below the cabinet was a PITA. They kept popping out if the screw wasn't spot-on, which is tough since the spacer holes are 3/4". On a couple, I simple used a washer and hex lock nut. It's rock solid which is all that matters...will likely clean it up later.
R&M went from sounding like a huge fart/turd to sounding awesome (and I don't have anti-rattle tape installed!). The components they use are really nice, however it's clear the speaker/amp combination REQUIRE a spacer like this. Again, now my game isn't convulsing/rattling and I don't have anti-rattle tape! I will likely still install anti-rattle tape to better secure the glass, but it's no longer a bandaid to the audio booming. Glass rattling is now rare, as it should be
Hope this helps!
IMG_2723 (resized).jpegIMG_2726 (resized).jpegIMG_2730 (resized).jpegIMG_2732 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from Jherre6:Why didn’t you staple or screw through the screen to put it back on?
Because I wanted the MDF ring to be tight against the cabinet. The screen doesn't provide much protection (cloth, not metal) and it removes a variable that *could* contribute to rattling.
Quoted from cooked71:Is it a 10"speaker? Havent got the game in front of me to check.
Correct...photos show this (see woofer label).
Quoted from bitternerd:Can someone tell me how a spacer ring helps? I thought it was an air seal issue and this doesn't vent air? Not doubting anyone, just an audio noob.
It helps by putting 3/4" distance between the speaker "cone" (which moves/vibrates to produce sound) and the cabinet. I have PinWoofer audio systems in my Sterns and they use speaker rings and the system rocks. Not claiming a speaker ring is a "silver bullet" for the R&M vibration problem, but for me, it worked well in combination with dialing in the amplifier settings. For example, if you crank the sub/bass dials too much, the game will still convulse/vibrate!
My game is #175 and it doesn't have any openings under the cabinet (like other manufacturers cabinets). Apparently, earlier R&M builds had a couple air vents. That said, if air vents are the solution to the vibration issues, then it makes no sense that Spooky would remove them in later builds.
I haven't read every post in this thread...I know Spooky folks are engaged and often help/comment on issues. Would be interesting to hear from them on this issue, but I'm just happy my games audio is dialed in now. For me, audio is a big deal.
Quoted from gac:Great post. I'm curious, though, as to why you put lock nuts on a couple of the screws if they were long enough to attach to the t-nuts. Just extra mounting security?
Thanks, glad it was helpful. The t-nuts busted my balls, since it was really difficult to see/feel exactly where they were going to connect. As the 2" screw was descending into the t-nut, it would either connect or push it out. Really frustrating. I noticed on Stern cabinets, they use #4 wood screws to help prevent the t-nut from popping out. Unfortunately, I noticed that after I was already frustrated
I also don't know if I like adding 4 #4 wood screws for that purpose.
So...if you look closely, 2 of the screws are secured with washers where the lock nuts are required. I put the lock nuts on the t-nuts just for uniformity (yes, I'm a little OCD...they do, however provide more mounting security.
Quoted from PinMonk:This lockup problem is not Spooky-specific. JJP and Stern have also had this lockup issue if the machines are left on 24/7 like on location. In their cases they both implemented a "maintenance reboot" that happens once a day to keep the machines from locking up rather than fixing the memory leak I believe is likely the root of the problem. I *think* Stern started this around Iron Maiden's release, but not 100% positive.
The common thread to the three manufacturers dealing with this? Linux.
Boatloads of smart TV's use Linux and they don't lockup.
Unboxed #175 5 days ago. Game is incredibly brutal, but it's such a blast. Just nailed the left inner loop and left orbit/garage combo...so fast...amazing feel. Leveled mine @ 6.9 yesterday as recommended...was at 6.5. Shots feel pretty well dialed in from the factory. For now, not going to pursue many of the tweaks mentioned in this thread. Until I get better at the game, it's hard to be critical of the shot precision/flow!
Really basic question (don't want to lift the PF or remove the glass for the answer). Is the saucer simply on a spring, or is there a mech that pokes it to bobble/bounce? Thx.
Quoted from PinMonk:It's all about the kernel, baby. Also, SMART TVs in general have a much larger development staff than pinball. I'm just pointing out that these lockup problems happened with the move to linux by the three largest pin manufacturers, and on JJP were specifically tied to a specific kernel update.
I hear you. I just thought it was odd to blame pinball lockups on a kernel. What next? Blame GCC and clang? (both of which I've done considerable work on
I just had my best game (28M) and as luck with have it, the software flaked out during the game. When starting an adventure, the screen was blank/purple and the audio was silent. After 10 seconds or so, the adventure would start and audio came back. The adventure was playable, but the audio/video was hit/miss. When the game ended, same thing...rather than see the cool match sequence, the screen was blank/purple with no audio/explosion. Game didn't freeze/crash, but it was clearly very confused. Rebooting the machine brought the game back to normal...
Has anyone else seen this behavior/bug? Does Spooky have a bug submission process? I believe I'm running the latest build (2020.08.26).
Quoted from northerndude:I think you want the October 12 build? Isnt that the freshest/solid one? going by memory here
The following link doesn't have any October build...am I looking in the wrong place?
Quoted from harryhoudini:The link is in a weird place, took me a while to find it when I looked originally. The spooky site needs a bit of help. For some reason many of their assets and stuff live on different sites.
https://soldmy.org/pin/rm/
Thanks! My first Spooky game, so just getting oriented. Much appreciated.
Quoted from RobT:R&M is one hard MF'er! I've owned more than 50 pins since being in the hobby, and I'm convinced that this is the hardest I've had in terms of keeping the ball in play.
R&M just has the "it" factor. It's more than the sum of its parts. You can't point to any one thing about this pin that makes it so damn addicting. The entire package just comes together to make it an extremely compelling and unique experience.
Couldn't agree more. I thought AIQ was tough! R&M much tougher...
The VUK is so fast, the horse shoe is fun but brutal, love the pop sling, love the feel of the flippers. The only annoying tweak I'd like to make is adjusting the VUK to reduce the rejections. Some folks say lower the VUK (under the PF), some folks say bend the scoop? Are you getting annoying VUK rejects?
Quoted from rolandthoms:I am having this exact same problem. Everything else is perfect. Frustrating when you’re in the middle of a great game. Solution?.
I updated to the latest software hoping it was fixed. If you've seen this on the latest software, I guess the bug is still lurking...
I unboxed my game 1 week ago. The audits claim I've played 411 games and my avg score was over 6M. Bizarre...neither of these numbers could possibly be true. I would estimate I've played 100 games (max) and my avg score is ~2M. I'm running the latest release.
Unfortunately, I didn't check the audits just after unboxing. Has anyone else checked their audits for accuracy? Sometimes with unfinished code, audits aren't fully implemented. As you know, some folks look at "games played" effecting resale value, so making sure the count is accurate is important.
image (resized).jpegimage (resized).jpegQuoted from MikeS:I think this is typical. My guess is that they are imaging the PC's and likely not clearing the audits before capturing the base image off a test machine. I don't think its anything to worry about, I would just reset the audits through the menu. Condition is really what matters when selling a game, not playcount.
Typical? Definitely not typical on NIB Sterns (I've owned many). Not worrying...just think it's bizarre, since the idea of audits is to capture what happens on your machine. And yes, condition is what matters...no doubt.
Didn't realize you could reset the audits...thx for the tip.
Quoted from MikeS:Typical on Rick and Morty I should say but not NIB Sterns. I got my game in June and it had over a hundred plays in the audits when I got the machine. I confirmed with a friend that received his game around the same time and his game was the same way. I just reset the audits through the menu so that the audits were accurate for me. It's not a big deal.
I didn't say it was a big deal. It was surprising. Just raising the issue for people that care about accurate audits.
Quoted from Edenecho:Still concerning indeed, I know spooky indeed has good customer service but as we are soon over halfway in production i wonder why many of the same issues arise... maybe they are stressing the games out too fast from the fsctory, because corona ddlayed the schedule?
I unpacked #175 one week ago and I've been really pleased with the build quality overall. The game has incredibly strong "bones"...the PF and cabinet are exceptional. Tweaking shots/mechs has become part of pinball...for good or bad. Took me 1 month to "dial in" my Iron Maiden and Dialed In. I'm pretty happy with the way my RM #175 shoots out-of-the-box. Scoop rejects are currently my only annoyance.
In an ideal world, all the shots would be fully dialed in. Since this is tough to do apparently, I would simply like more guidance from the manufacturers about what tweaks they recommend (after the game is out for 6 months or so). In the old days, Stern would issue "Service Bulletins". Pinside has become the place to go for such tweaks, however there is often conflicting opinions. Would be great for the manufacturers to decide whose idea is the best and publish their opinion. For example, I want to reduce the number of scoop rejects, and would prefer to implement a Spooky approved solution.
Folks, the range of motion on the diverter under the house doesn't seem right (movement is less than 1/4"). The top photo is the diverter extended...doesn't come close to meeting the inner/spinner ball guide. The bottom photo is the resting position. If someone has the hood up on your game, can you snap a couple photos of this mech...or, if someone has already investigated this, please point me to a post. Thanks!
IMG_2772 (resized).jpegIMG_2773 (resized).jpegQuoted from MikeS:Do you get full range of motion on the topside of the playfield? Here's a pic of mine for comparison. There's not a lot of travel but the divertor on the topside is able to hit both the loop rail and the backrail fully.
[quoted image]
No full range of motion...doesn't come close to the loop rail. Is the photo you provided the diverter against the back rail?
Quoted from MikeS:Yes. The photo is of the default position against the back wall. When engaged it closes off the loop.
Thanks...one more question. When it closes toward the loop rail, does the plunger move toward the coil or toward the stop. I assume the coil, however yours doesn't look like it has much room.
Quoted from MikeS:Coil. It doesn't need to engage much.
If you look at my "engaged" photo, my plunger isn't even as high as your resting position plunger. Almost seems like something is blocking mine. When it fires, it makes a strange noise. Is your diverter noisy when it engages?
Quoted from MikeS:Not at all. I would maybe try loosening the pawl and move it to a position closer to mine. Maybe it's binding?
OK...that's very useful information. Since yours isn't noisy and mine is, I'm sure it's binding. Seems like it's nearly impossible to dial this in without removing the house (given the mech and location). As you know, when dialing in a flipper, it's essential to actually see the flipper Probably the same for the diverter, since seeing it in action is kind of important. Hopefully it's not too much work to remove the house.
Quoted from razorsedge:Mine was the same, diverter tip couldn't reach the spinner orbit guide. Left a half inch gap, not traveling there fully. I done some adjusting underside and bending topside to make those orbit shots both work right. My diverter worked, but the shot would catch no matter if for portal orbit, or right standard back thru spinner. Neither would complete smoothly before the tweaks.
Yes need to remove ramps and the house. Luckily for me I was doing that anyway to fit the protector.
Sigh. Thanks for chiming in. I had a feeling both the ramps and house would need to come off to fix this. Bummer.
Quoted from MikeS:Removing the house isn't too bad. 2 screws on the left ramp, 3 on the right and then that clear plastic cover. Then I think its just 2 screws holding the house in place. When you have it off is a good time to look at your loop orbit and right orbit and make slight tweaks to make them smoother. I didn't make any new holes but the rails generally give you a small amount of play where the screw holes are to make them smoother.
OK. Doesn't sound too bad. Did you leave the ramps/house connected?
My diverter was installed behind the ball guide, which blocked it from actually doing it's job. Explains why it wasn't working and making annoying noise (coil plunger was bound). I was able to lift it over the guide, which enables the plunger to move as you would expect. Easy fix, but getting to it was a bit of work.
IMG_2783 (resized).jpegQuoted from hawkmoon:Were you happy to finally get your pin, and find out that.yes,its not gonna play new out-of-box? Justeverett can't wait to get his hands on a new pin he has to fix before he can play it, then tell everybody he can actually diagnose and fix all the bugs in his precious purchase!! AND,yes,I have one on order.my build #is 499! #500 already went down under!
Don't know "justeverett", so I'm not sure I get the point/humor. When you get your #499, you'll thank all of us who are posting problems/fixes so you can then fix YOUR "precious purchase"!
Quoted from Pinstym:All the pics you guys are posting of pf adjustments are awesome. Seriously helpful. It would be even more awesome if someone made a video. Showing and explaining exactly what you are adjusting and why. Showing how easy or hard it is to get to here and there. How to remove the ramps and the house. What plastic is breaking under the spaceship, and what you loosen to try to keep it from breaking.
Pics and words are great. Vids are better. The go-to-all-tweak video.
I've removed the right ramp to adjust the feed to the upper flipper, and I adjusted my lower left flipper that was wonky out of the box, but I'm waiting for detailed vids before I get crazy.
Great idea. I'd love the video to come from Spooky. For example, Spooky has a YouTube video on adjusting the shooter lane. The benefit to Spooky is fewer support calls. Spooky support has been very responsive to me so far...really impressed. Casually mentioned the really rusty balls that came with the machine and they had new balls in the mail immediately (without having to ask for them).
There are so many posts about tweaking ball guides that it's hard to know if any of them apply to my game (#175). After lowering the scoop, fixing my diverter, and dialing in my audio, #175 is playing great. I looked at the ball guides while I had the ramps off (to fix the diverter) and everything looked pretty sensible, so I decided not to fiddle with anything.
Quoted from hawkmoon:OK,but before I go,lets just summarize; Spooky hit a winner with this theme! Thats where it all started, and ended! Topper has to be "tweaked"to muffle offending loud sound Backbox has to be inspected for sneaky connections that are unplugged during shipping! Sound system is excellent,however,woofer rattles the glass, and there is no fix for this just "tweek" the glass Flipper fade and overheat can't be fixed, but a aftermarket product will "help' this unfixable problem Fan in pin too loud like a jet engine, not fixable, but replaced with another aftermarket product Legs biting into cab causing damage to cab currently being "looked into" by Spooky??Ball guide problems galore, diverter switches bad,gobs of glue where there shouldn't be, wires too short or loose, washers found loose in cab bottom,then, when some of you finally get to boot up.nothing works, so you have to start all over again to see if you missed a loose connection!! Yes,some of this is common in new pins I agree, but this is getting worse not better!! It really bothers me to be so negative about something I really wanted, but its all too much for me as a causal owner to have to contend with for 9K! Have fun,B safe!! Good-bye,and yes,I hear you,and good riddence!!
I've "fixed" 3 things with #175 (diverter, scoop, audio) and the effort was far less than NIB games I've dealt with from Stern/JJP. Not saying Spooky shouldn't try and improve, but your analysis is way too negative. The love and passion that Scott, Eric, and the entire team put into this game is oozing. I realize that reading all this stuff may make you nervous...I get it. Rather than vent/worry, wait until the game arrives and make your own decision! This game will be a hot item for a LONG time. It's not just about the modern/cool theme...it's one of the rare games that fires on all cylinders. I have no doubt it's going to be highly sought after classic. The only problem is, it's one of the most difficult games I've ever owned. For some people, this will be a turnoff.
Quoted from RobT:Is there a solution to the destruction of the post sleeves? They take a beating. Are there other, strong alternatives that actually fit?[quoted image]
Mine (#175) has black posts...I hear they switched because of the wear on the translucent. I notice that the black are very loose fitting...they move really easily. Wonder of movement would cause them to wear more quickly. Were these loosely fitted? Curious.
Quoted from northerndude:No, don’t use a spade bit for that, you won’t be happy with the results. Rarely do those make a nice circular hole.
You’ll want to use a proper hole saw for that job.
Mine has the ports cut in from Spooky
Here’s mine from bottom view. (Yes I removed the speaker “grill” cover). Just a hair under 2” port holes[quoted image][quoted image]
I don't see any reason to cut holes in the cabinet for the sake of improving the audio. The only opening I have is in the rear/back of the cabinet...near the fan. The assertion that the cabinet is "air tight" and that's why the vibration is awful isn't what I've experienced. The 3/4" ring and adjustments to the amp is all I needed to solve the problem. Would be interesting for Spooky to explain the change to the cabinets.
Quoted from rai:IMO this game is better than it looks. I think the price creep is real, meaning it was a $7K (base) but very easy to get to $8300+
And somewhat $8K+ is a lot of money but imo it’s so worth the price. I know a lot of folks *don’t* like it but if you click with it it’s so much fun. I think it’s a pin that has a few problems but more than makes up for it by the fun to play.
If you load it with all the options, it weighs in at $9500 (including shipping). I don't know how many are being shipped outside the US, but even if it's only 250, that leaves only 500 for this country. The license and the addictive play are going to make this a big hit. All the kinks will get worked out and the software will continue to evolve. Sure, it won't be universally loved, but that's to be expected.
Yesterday, noticed a quite a few right orbit shots were bricking on the clear/left post right above the head (part of the u-turn lane). I believe the ball is likely slightly airborne and striking the shooter wireform, then bouncing left (into the u-turn lane post).
You can see how close the ball is to the default location of the wireform. I put a small rubber underneath to raise the wireform. No video proof this is the cause of the clunky right orbit shots, but I know it can't hurt since the shooter still works fine with the slightly higher pitch. Will play a bunch today to see if it fixes it.
Quoted from jonesjb:Did you change the curve of your orbit?
Nope. Haven't fiddled with any guides, since most of the shots are pretty smooth. Do your right orbit shots brick at the post on the left occasionally? Really hard to know if this is by design or not. With the fancy u-turn built-in to the orbit, it might be impossible to prevent? Might simply depend on where the ball starts on it's orbit path.
Quoted from BeeGeeMtl:I appreciate you trying to help but I don't know what an EOS switch is, or where to find or whether to know if it's "engaging too soon" or what a leaf switch is. I'm basically a guy who just bought a new car but has no idea how it works or how to fix it, which is probably the difference between some owners in this thread being somewhat miffed at all the stuff they need to fix and those who understand how pins work and how to fix them. It's kinda frustrating for us newbies. Usually you're not asked to work on your engine after you purchase a $10k car, but alas, I love Spooky and wanna support them but this can get frustrating. I think some people in this thread need to be a little more patient with newbies like myself. We're not all techies. I just bought the game because I love playing pinball and loooooove Rick & Morty.
I sympathize. I bought my first game (Lord of the Rings) in 2004 and was too busy and uninterested in even taking the glass off and lifting the PF Fortunately, I bought from a local distributor that fixed the one minor NIB issue I had. Unfortunately, most games have more issues out-of-the-box "issues" than those days, so people who have been in the hobby for awhile are experienced at popping the hood and digging into problems from day 1.
Assuming you didn't buy from a local distributor, have you looked into local pinball repair people in your area? Seems like that's the best solution for someone brand new with such a high value game. Since home collections are booming, pinball repair jobs are on the rise. I'm pretty self sufficient, but I know people in my area to call if I had issues that were beyond my experience level.
Not saying Pinsiders can't help resolve your issue, but I think finding some local help would be prudent. I guess another option is to join local pinball groups and get a local collector/enthusiast to help you.
Quoted from razorsedge:The gap does make a difference but mostly with knockdowns, as far as I'm aware.
If the flipper is up and switch closed, a ball deflecting the flipper won't cause a re-energise until too late when the EOS switch activates too early.
My game was unplayable before adjusting, could barely trap, horseshoe shots would cause a held up flipper to collapse.
Fixing the EOS setting solved all this for me.
I've been getting that unusual behavior where the ball hitting an extended flipper causes it to retract. Is that what you are saying you've fixed?
Any additional info (or photos) or links would be great. The ball knocking down my flipper hasn't been a huge issue so far, but would be nice if they were more resilient to the ball hitting them. Never experienced this on any other games.
Quoted from kermit24:Wow lots of detail here. I appreciate the time it took you to write this up, but this should absolutely not be needed for an $8K+ pinball machine.
It isn't needed. 7 days ago, I posted a really simple solution that worked great for me (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aw-jeez-official-rick-and-morty-club/page/159#post-5975793). From my perspective, the audio system provided by Spooky is first rate...it just needed to be dialed in! Replacing the amp to solve the subwoofer issue is nonsense.
My RAM audio system sounds AWESOME...have it currently set on 11...not 2! As good as PinWoofer systems, which I have in many of my games.
Quoted from harryhoudini:Except your solution is a pain to implement and doesn't resolve the fact that the current amp (at least mine) can not be used to adjust the levels on the sub anything past "just on"... it just isn't right and I'm anal enough to not live with "just isn't right". Plus it's not the sub that's causing the issue, it's the thing driving the sub to that level.
Trust me, when it comes to audio, you ain't more anal than I am. My cars, my homes, and my pins have the best f-ing audio on the planet. Won't bore you with the details...don't want to get into a pissing match with you!
Pain to implement? $10 and 2 hours? That's a pain? You clearly don't know what you are talking about, sir.
As I said above, "My RAM audio system sounds AWESOME...have it currently set on 11...not 2! As good as PinWoofer systems, which I have in many of my games."
Quoted from brerspidur:I'll say that the previously linked felt tape on the glass got rid of about 80% of my Rattle, although it did take 2 layers. The glass fits very snug now. The pinnovaters sub ring got rid of another 15%. I tweaked some of the amp settings, but they are not turned all the way down. I can listen at pretty loud volumes with great bass, and nearly any rattle
Not surprised. My experience was the 3/4" ring I installed from Amazon with tweaks to the amp settings got me 80%...was very playable. Today I installed anti-rattle tape from PinWoofer and it got me the last 20%. The game sounds f-ing AWESOME now...best stock audio in ANY GAME I'VE EVER OWNED.
Quoted from Our_Man_in_Oz:No point really in putting in a spacer kit if the sub just isn't blending properly with the rest of the audio, since it's actually too loud to begin with due to the difficulty of getting the settings to well blended level.
Well, the spacer helped solve my vibration issues. At the moment, RAM sounds as good as any of my PinWoofer enhanced games (and I'm a big fan of Dan's PinWoofer product...was an early adopter).
Stock Stern speakers have no spacers since the stock speakers are dirt cheap and the system is awful/underpowered. PinWoofer adds spacers since the better speakers/amp demand it. I believe this is true for RAM as well. The backbox speakers have nice spacers and sound great. It's a shame Spooky doesn't have a spacer for the sub, but it was cheap and straightforward to add. The bigger shame is Spooky did do a great job on the audio setup, but the out-of-box experience is arguably crappy. For audio aware folks, not a big deal. For newbies and folks that don't have time to fiddle, it's a darn shame!
Quoted from Good-Times:If the spacer is helping there are two reasons for this; either it’s stopping the woofer’s surround from hitting the grill, in which case you could just remove the grill, or it’s decoupling the woofer from the cabinet, in which case a felt or EVA foam gasket will do the same.
Exactly, but I believe your second reason (decoupling) was much more important. I'm sure there are other products that can do the same...3/4" MDF might be overkill for this application, but it worked great for me and was priced right ($10). The Pinnovators product will do the job as well, I'm sure.
Quoted from Fytr:Yes, my legs were fine out of the box. I do have a set of felt mounts on just because I had them but they wouldn't be necessary.
I unboxed 10 days ago. I was unaware of the issue until reading this thread a few days ago. The butter decals are slightly crimped on the left sides. All my legs are fine on the right side of the legs. I took PinMonk recommendation to put a nylon spacer between the leg/cab...leg still seems to be touching the cabinet.
Considering all the care Spooky takes with the metal leg protectors and blanket wrapping, it's unfortunate that something as simple as legs could be defective. Oh well. Emailed Spooky support to see what they suggest. Considering the high cost of the butter cabinet, really want to prevent any further damage!
IMG_2756 (resized).jpegIMG_2757 (resized).jpegQuoted from Concretehardt:It’s official... I suck at pinball!
Yep. I fired up a game and got 10M this morning and felt good Yesterday, I had quite a few 1 minutes games where I scored 1M or less. Just brutal. I consider myself an above average player and have played in Florida and SoCal tournaments with some pretty good players. This game is just killing me, but I love it! I'm not giving up...
Rules question: I just had my best game thanks to a strong Pickle Rick adventure (35M). I rarely get Pickle Rick. What's the algorithm for determining when/if you get Pickle Rick? How are the adventures selected? If it were purely random, I think I'd see Pickle Rick more often...
Quoted from pmppk:Butter decals? Isn't the butter artwork supposed to be directly printed onto the wood, meaning no decals at all?
Don't believe so. I believe butter decals are similar in spirit to Mirco "Rad Cals"...very thick, very glossy decals that are layered/glued to the cabinet. The leg indentations clearly show the artwork isn't directly printed onto the wood...wood doesn't ripple like that
Quoted from brerspidur:Never mind, I figured it out pretty simple just remove both ramps and then it's two quarter inch screws
On a good note, was able to confirm I spent suspicion that might diverter was not working correctly as posted previously in the thread, just had to lift it up and over so it had full range of motion
[quoted image]
I fixed the same exact problem over the weekend (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aw-jeez-official-rick-and-morty-club/page/164#post-5984455).
Spooky support said they would tell the build folks, since accessing the diverter is a PITA.
Quoted from cooked71:Butter cabinets are directly screen printed (or digital, not sure) to the cabinet and then clear coated.
The leg indentations are the same problem as pooling on Playfields. They can be also flattened with heat, like pooling on Playfields.
If that's true, WOW. Even more respect for the craftsmanship that went into the cabinet! I guess it would explain the cost as well. Don't recall who told me butter was based on RadCal-like technology. Thanks for the clarification!
Quoted from kermit24:Wonder how it passed the play test with the diverter not working?
Play testing isn't even required to find the diverter issue...test mode would uncover the very audible plunger binding.
I doubt much play testing is done, since then people would freak out over a NIB game with a few dimples.
Quoted from arzoo:Anyone have a suggestion on how to reduce the center scoop rejects? I'd say one out of three direct shots will reject. I've tried bending the scoop lower and higher. Higher made it worse. Lower maybe helped a bit. I've also tried adding a small felt pad but that made it much worse. I feel like the problem is the ball hitting the back of the scoop and then then leading metal edge. Adding washers to lower the metal below the wood would probably solve the problem, but then the wood would take a beating. Maybe a cliffy instead? This is the last thing I need to resolve to get the pin really dialed-in nicely.
I lowered it with washers and it totally solved the problem...didn't bend anything. The metal is totally level with the wood, which means the wood WILL NOT take a beating. It's really pretty straightforward. Before leveling the scoop, I had 6 of 10 rejects. Now it's 1 of 10.
Quoted from arzoo:So you're saying the metal is even with the inner sloped edge of the playfield, no lip at all? If the pf edge is not taking a hit then I'll give this a try. Thanks.
Before/After. As you can see, the "after" front scoop is still slightly over the lowest point of the wood bezel. The wood is still fully protected. If the scoop is lowered too much, the wood might be in danger of getting nicked. Like any pinball tweak, takes a little finesse, but I'm convinced this is the right solution.
When the scoop is protruding out (like in the before photo), it's like narrowing the hole considerably. The bezel helps make the shot more forgiving.
Quoted from harryhoudini:There is no EOS on the upper flipper.
Thanks for the response. There is an EOS switch on my upper flipper mech, but it's not wired up.
Quoted from Coyohtay:How thick/many washers did you add?
I added a fairly thick plastic washer I got at ACE hardware (they have a ton of washers). Metal washers are too thin and doubling them up would be too thick.
Quoted from harryhoudini:Well, that's weird. Sounds like someone might have grabbed the wrong flipper assembly.
Who knows...photo that shows the unwired EOS.
IMG_2814 (resized).jpegI closed my right outlane a few days ago...didn't reduce the brutality of the drains one bit. I haven't played my JP2 in a couple weeks...just played it and it felt so easy when compared with R&M (10-15 minute game). My R&M games seem to last 1-2 minutes
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:The game is designed to make you panic flip and it will punish you for it. You need to trap up as much as you can and take a deep breath, then make your shot. Its the same way I did TNA. These are the types of games that I think are the most fun. If you want to play it crazy, definitely just try and make shots on the fly, it will be insane.
--Scott
You and kermit24 nailed me...I'm definitely more of an "on the fly" type of player, and end up panic flipping! As you say, it's insane (actually feels like the game is attacking me
I've actually never had a game humiliate me quite like RAM! This feedback really helps...I'll have to try a different approach...more trapping and breathing! Despite the abuse, you know I love the game and won't give up until I "get it".
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:P.S. To those folks complaining about build quality and shot geometry, I don't see it. I got to play #49 in DC in February, and this one shoots better. Only complaint I have is the glass rattles out of the box, but that's an easy adjustment. Anyone local (Maryland) concerned about build quality is welcome to check it out, just PM me.
Mine is #175 and I'm impressed with the build quality. Best PF and cabinet (butter) I've ever owned. I only had to fix 3 things...lowered the scoop, fixed my diverter (that was installed behind the ramp), and dialed in the audio to stop rattling/convulsing. Now that the audio is dialed in, it's also the best sounding stock audio I've ever heard (and I've owned quite a few over the years).
It's really an impressive achievement. Best theme integration EVER...amazing collaboration with the Rick and Morty creators.
Shit...just nailed the left ramp with the left flipper (didn't know that was possible) and followed it up with a clean left garage shot. Rewarding combo...
One suggestion for @epthegeek. I nailed the inner left loop 5-6 times and was surprised there were no clever callouts to recognize the accomplishment
In general, the callouts are just amazing...obviously a minor suggestion (since I think looping is going to be common/fun).
Quoted from mariobeans:I need those plastic covers asap. My airballs are INSANE!
Balls are hitting my roof!
That's odd...I have practically no airballs on this game. Have you fiddled with flipper adjustments or settings?
Quoted from BeeGeeMtl:WOW! I honestly would have never guessed that. You can't even see the holes from the front, so odd that Spooky doesn't make it more obvious or AT LEAST put a picture up on their website, pointing it out. Would save newbies a lot of headaches. Thanks for pointing this out.
The other odd thing about the location is my USB stick barely fit (not much clearance on the bottom and really hard to see). IIRC, the USB ports on on the top in Alice Cooper, making it easier to insert/access.
Quoted from Fytr:This approach to controlling the flippers is a sore point for me. I assume it is how the PROC boards operate?
It means that there is no chance to quickly flutter the flipper button to get a lite tap on the flipper, it always fires full strength/duration. I am able to do this all the time on my new Stern's (and classic Sterns, obviously). It's like playing with digital vs analog buttons and I feel that it's actually pretty detrimental to refined/advanced play.
I'd love to hear more about this topic though.
Me too (would love to hear more). Might be contributing to why I suck so bad, since I'm use to Stern flippers (and have had difficulty adapting to these flippers).
My "stock" flipper positions below. The left flipper is "off", which I believe makes my right orbit shot a bit tougher than it should be. Plan on dialing it in soon...adjusting flippers is always a PITA.
As far as flipper coils strength is concerned, I've never changed them, however my settings aren't on the default values. For example, my lower right flipper is set at 45 (max is 50). I imagine they were changed at the factory? What are yours set at?
IMG_2853 (resized).jpegQuoted from Rarehero:I was thinking I’d have to tighten the outlanes after getting destroyed last night.
I closed the left outlane a few days ago and it's still brutal.
Quoted from RobT:The left outlane or the right one?
I closed my left outlane from factory and it made a big difference. The right one? Not so much. Still brutal.
And I still love it!
Thanks for the correction...I closed the right outlane (oops). I didn't touch the left, since it hasn't been a problem for me.
Quoted from metallik:Make sure you have a spare pawl for that side. The WMS pawls they use will only tighten so many times, then the clamp area is too stretched to fully clamp on the flipper shaft.
Thanks for the tip! Question: My lower/right flipper is cranked all the way up to 45 (I didn't do it...seem to come that way from the factory). I noticed the EOS switches don't appear dialed in (i.e. the switch is activating before the end-of-stroke). I imagine this has the effect of lowering the flipper strength? Hoping that adjusting the EOS will give me some more strength to make the left ramp.
Since updating to the latest code, my portal ball eject behavior has changed. Before the update, as soon as the ball entered the portal, it would eject the ball waiting in the Portal trough. Now, the ball enters the portal, travels down the trough, and then the ball waiting ahead of it is ejected.
Are other folks seeing this? If not, I guess something could need tweaking on my machine?
Quoted from arzoo:The left ramp left screw is shorter by necessity; a longer screw would protrude into the subway and prevent the ball from moving past. I learned this the hard way when I replaced the screw with a larger one to match the right and then I'm like why is the pin searching for a ball, wtf? As for the pre-drilled holes at the bottom of the ramp, neither of my ramps use those holes and they seem too large anyway.
I did the same thing (added a larger screw to the left ramp) when I had the ramps off to fix a diverter issue.
Quoted from epthegeek:Check your subway switch and your portal trough switches.
Looks like a damaged crimp point on the black wire might be the culprit. Odd that it worked for a couple hundred games or so and then decided to misbehave.
IMG_2867 (resized).jpegOriginally leveled my game at 6.9 (per Scott's suggestion IIRC). Too brutal for my skill level. Dropped it to 6.7 a couple weeks ago and didn't notice much difference...still too brutal. Just dropped it to the traditional 6.5 and I'm having much more success. Left ramp is more achievable, speed overall is more manageable. After only 2-3 games at 6.5 got my new high score of 40M. Much happier...I gravitate toward more challenging games, but can't keep up with R&M at the more aggressive angles. YMMV.
Quoted from rai:I have a hard time with R&M magna save, I thought it wasn't working, but now and then I press it just right and I do notice its effect. I think it's a lot more subtle than say SOR where it's a big all or none spike.
I agree. Even when mine is fully charged and I activate it at what should be a reasonable point in time, the ball drains. It does impact the ball path (so I know it's working). As you say, it's more subtle. Wonder if there is a setting to make it more aggressive (so the ball is actually saved
Quoted from Kevlar:Think of it more like a magna flip, it behaves much like the magna flippers on twilight zone, just flicking the ball away rather than grabbing it like other magna saves.
That analogy helps a lot and explains why I haven't had much success with it! I need to activate it sooner if possible to push the ball away before getting too close to the outlane. I thought it was a magna save that would suck the ball in from the outlane. Thanks!
Quoted from RobT:This is interesting to me. I've had my R&M pitch at several different levels, including as low as the 6.5 that you have your at. I thought the game was unplayable at that pitch, and certainly did not seem any easier.
Went to 6.7 and still did not feel right. Went up to 6.9 and to me this is the sweet spot for speed, flow, and difficulty.
Like you said, YMMV.
Interesting. Did you have to bump the right flipper power to be able to make the left ramp after 20-30 minutes of play?
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:R&M later builds (at least after #373) have a different inner loop configuration by default now. The middle screw is absent from the factory, as recommended by many others. This photo shows the unmolested configuration of my machine as seen stock from the factory delivered 12/4.
For those sticklers for stock machines you can remove that screw guilt free without "cheating". I have never had issues with my inner loop.
I did the other recommended adustments (Garage shot, diverter under house, and right u turn). All were fairly easy to excepting the garage shot.
After these changes the game is vastlly better than it was NIB/stock. It is flowier and those shots are much more makeable and shoot as intended. I got to Rick Potion #9 for the first time immediately after changes, and it's great! Contrast changes to screen make a world of difference too.
One other software change (that is cheating) I would recommend is to change the setting to allow true randomness in dimension settings, and to always alow the dimension change on the right orbit.
Your mileage may vary but all is good. Looking forward to dropping some purple titans and a few figures (Meeseks, megaseed trees, and noob noob) into my game this week. I love cheesey toys in games.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Interesting. I have #175 and my inner loop shoots pretty well (and has the screw and original placement I believe). My issue is poor right flipper strength that makes the left ramp hard to make. The settings have been modified to add flipper strength, but it's still a little anemic.
Quoted from Rarehero:It’s one thing to be hard, but I feel like many of my clean shots ricochet up and hit the post/rubber ring to the left of the left ramp, vs. hugging the guide & flying up into the garage as I expect. It often does fly up into the garage, and that feels great. I haven’t made any tweaks yet....wondering if I should try adjusting my flipper position or strength to see if that makes any meaningful difference. Here’s a pic to show how my upper flipper is aligned.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Your flipper position looks a little off to me...too far forward, which would make the garage shot more difficult. Mine is parallel with the guide and base of the "Portal Ready" insert.
On my game, the left flipper was too far forward, which made the right garage shot more difficult. I dialed it in this weekend and the right orbit is now much smoother.
Just figured out why my right flipper is weak. Since other folks have complained about trouble making the left ramp consistently, wanted to post what I found.
As you can see, my right flipper is sitting lower than my left flipper (which is causing some subtle binding).
Turns out, the base of my right flipper is blocked by the digital display, which is why it's not flush with the PF. This causes the flipper mech/bushing to sit too low, which is effecting the power/operation.
I'm waiting for Spooky folks to advise on the best solution. I don't feel comfortable moving the display and moving the flipper mech is a big deal.
Can't wait to get this nailed...the game is hard enough without a wonky right flipper That left ramp is steep enough...
IMG_2905 (resized).jpegIMG_2908 (resized).jpegIMG_2909 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from MikeS:Nice job tracking that down. Hopefully there's some room for adjustment? I took a look at mine and it is definitely close.[quoted image]
Your photo shows me what's different. Look how your display has the acrylic base removed/missing from the flipper screws. Compare it with mine...see the difference? What # is yours?
Quoted from MikeS:You're right. Mine is #89.
Yep, since your digital display board is different than mine (to apparently accommodate the flipper screws), I'm waiting for Spooky to advise me on this.
My gut says neither the display or the flipper can be moved. Don't know if they modify the digital display board during build or they have different revisions? My game is #175.
Thanks goodness this is a hobby for me (and I enjoy hunting these bugs). If I were just a "Rick and Morty" fan with no pinball chops, life with this game would be more discouraging. Fortunately, I still love it. As long as Spooky folks continue to support me, all is good...
Quoted from MikeS:Nice job tracking that down. Hopefully there's some room for adjustment? I took a look at mine and it is definitely close.[quoted image]
I haven't heard back from Luke yet (must be busy), but your photo gave me enough info to understand the fix (which apparently Spooky did on your game, since you haven't modified this).
I just clipped off the part of the plastic display riser that was getting in the way of the flipper base. Now the flipper mechanism sits flush
Unfortunately, I can't report a night/day difference in power at the moment. Seems about 10-20% stronger? Hard to know until I do more testing.
Also unfortunately, now that it's flush, I still notice a significant difference in the height of the flippers. Notice the significant difference with my Avengers flippers. The other *really odd* difference (with all my other games) is now high the RAM flippers sit! On all my other games, the sweet spot of the ball hits the center of the flipper rubber (what you'd expect). On my RAM, the sweet spot of the ball hits the lowermost part of the flipper rubber. This might explain why the Spooky flippers feel so odd to me...the height just seems wrong! See photos for detail on everything I'm talking about.
IMG_2914 (resized).jpegIMG_2916 (resized).jpegIMG_2919 (resized).jpegIMG_2926 (resized).jpegIMG_2928 (resized).jpegIMG_2931 (resized).jpegIMG_2934 (resized).jpegQuoted from MikeS:Thats great that you were able to resolve the issue with the base not sitting flush. I took a look at my flippers and they definitely sit a bit higher than my Stern games. I wonder if this could be resolved by using a different bushing? I haven't noticed any issues in my game with it sitting higher. If its hitting higher in the ball that would likely help with preventing airballs but may sacrifice a small bit of power since its hitting higher on the ball? I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has thoughts on this. [quoted image]
It's more than a bit if you look closely at the photos I posted. It's quite significant...on my machine, at least. Can you snap a photo of where the ball hits on your flipper? Looks a bit lower than mine, but it's hard to tell.
It's also relevant to note that where the ball gets struck statically is different than where it gets struck when you fire the coil. That's why it's important to provide that 1/8" gap to give the flipper room to move (and not bind). So...if the lower part of the rubber is striking the ball statically, it could be 1/8" lower when the flipper is actually fired.
Intuitively, it just seems important for the sweet spot of the flipper/rubber to hit the sweet spot of the ball to get the most power/accuracy...no?
Quoted from Whysnow:swap the bushings is my honest opinion.
Ball should hit square on the sweet spot. Too high or too low is less than optimal.
I also find that too high causes more torsional friction capability.
Right after seeing your bushings post 3 days ago, I emailed Scott/Terry @ PBL (before noticing the build botch I've posted about). Scott said the bushing are in spec with the original Williams flipper mechs.
I totally agree with you...ball should hit square on the sweet spot!! So...what bushings do I need to make this happen? Do you have a link?
Quoted from Fytr:Well you should be able to loosen the flipper bats under the PF and adjust the height by lowering or raising them. They should fully down and then with a credit card's width of gap left between the bottom of the flipper and the top of the bushing.
I would start there, they might just be set a little high currently.
That doesn't make sense. The flipper bushings are simply too high. If they are too high, it's impossible to lower the flippers.
Quoted from jonesjb:I must be misunderstanding the issue. I thought the gap between the flipper and playfield could be adjusted, isn’t there even a tool for this?
You are misunderstanding the issue. Do you have experience rebuilding (or working on) flippers. If not, then it's not surprising you are misunderstanding.
The gap can certainly be adjusted, however the flipper rests on the bushing, which is the absolute low point for the flipper.
Quoted from Whysnow:this is a good call. After looking at his pictures again, his bats are sitting proud over the top of the bushing.
That is a good first step and see.
I personally dont like the bushing height on a bunch of games that have come out recently. I think something changed slightly at the main place that makes the bushings. They are for sure in spec, but slightly lower is better.
I unfortunately dont know the exact ones to order as I keep a stock of like 6 different bushings and just eyeball it/ compare to what I pull out of a game.
My flippers are resting on the bushing. Don't know what you are seeing.
Quoted from Whysnow:looks to be sitting high/ over top of bushing?
[quoted image]
Sorry, can't be lowered any more (and has the 1/8) recommended gap when I pull up on the flipper.
Quoted from Fytr:No need to be testy. *If* the flippers are already resting on the top of the bushing, then yes, obviously they can't be lowered further. That is an assumption at this point.
On my game, I adjusted the flippers as soon as I saw the odd flipper angle they had set them at at the factory and made sure they had plenty of "slack" vertically when I tightened them down. I have no problem with the left ramp shot.
I wasn't being "testy". jonesjb *asked* if he was misunderstanding the issue and I said he was. I'm trying to help by putting this info out here. I can take it all private if you'd prefer (now that was testy
Quoted from epthegeek:Difference in PF thickness between WMS and Spooky?
Exactly. I don't have my BW machines at this location, but I just checked my JJP/DI (which I believe uses the same flippers as Spooky?). The PF is indeed 1/8" thicker than my RAM PF (and the flipper strikes the ball in the proper location).
At this point, it's clear to me that Spooky (or PBL) simply needs to advise us on what bushings would lower the flipper 1/8". The flippers just aren't hitting the ball optimally...I'm convinced of this.
Quoted from arzoo:This would also explain why the flipper rubbers get destroyed so easily - the ball is only hitting the lower edge of the rubber.
[quoted image]
Exactly...which doesn't happen on any of my other games.
Quoted from Pinball-Obsessed:Can washers be installed below the playfield in-between the entire flipper and coil metal bracket they are attached to? To pull the entire assembly away or down? To bring the flippers closer to the playfield?
Quoted from Morinack:washers can vary in thickness and may be hard to find some that fit. An acrylic shim may work better to make up for the 1/8".
But likely needs to be laser cut.
I've talked to folks about this and it's problematic. I think the ball needs to be in Spooky's "court" to advise on this issue. Adhoc solutions for this part of the game (which get's pounded) isn't something I'm going to fiddle with.
Quoted from arzoo:Not sure I totally agree, I would think the combination of a difficult shot off the flipper tip and only using the lower edge of the rubber could in some cases make the shot much harder imo.
Yep. In fact, from "day 1", I've thought the flippers have felt odd. Now that I see where the ball is being hit, I'm not surprised. I'm convinced that it's important for the sweet spot of the bat/rubber to hit the sweet spot of the ball. Striking the ball at the lower tip of the rubber just can't lead to better ball control/placement. It's not just about power.
JJP uses the same flipper mech I believe. Here is an A/B between RAM and DI. As I mentioned above, it's because the DI PF is 1/8" thicker than the RAM PF.
Quoted from Whysnow:I personally think that the game is good as-is and they wont be (nor should need to) change anything.
You are pretty inconsistent, since 3 days ago you told people to swap out the bushing if they were having flipper issues.
IMG_2934 (resized).jpegIMG_2935 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from guitarded:Take the bushings out and sand/trim them down to your preferred height.
Problem solved in less time than it takes to photograph pics of your other machines.
So incredibly false...taking off flipper bushings is much more work than taking a photo of a flipper/ball.
If you don't know that, you've never done it. Or...you just like being cute.
Quoted from SpookyCharlie:Yo' pinball people.
Ok... spent some time on the phone with the mfg. We have never changed anything in the flipper mechs and have been running the same everything since day one here at Spooky over the course of well over 2,000 games to date in that regard.
BUT... looking at older Spooky games here vs Rick and Morty ... you pinball maniacs ain't wrong. The flippers do sit a bit higher with this same ol' same ol' Wms style bushing.
ALSO BUT... some of you do see this as a problem. And we all do agree here that this CAN BE IMPROVED REGARDLESS.
So... since it can be improved... our manufacturer has agreed to work with us and yep, we'll be getting our very own Spooky Pinball specific flipper bushing tooling put together.
Anyone who feels they want to change theirs out, give us an email: [email protected] ... it will take a couple months (best guess) to get this tooling change tested, made, and in stock but we'll happily replace your bushings and obviously they'll be factory installed on all future production.
So there you have it... you spoke, we listened. Anyone who wants a set of 3 bushings for Rick and Morty we'll happily ship you them free of charge.
Hope that helps, and HAPPY HOLIDAYS! Peace, love, and all things pinball ya'll.
Thanks so much for listening and acting so quickly, Charlie. Rick and Morty is my first Spooky game and it rocks!
Tuning it to play optimally is the goal of many folks on this thread. The collaboration between your customers and your company makes you guys very, very special. So happy to hear this improvement will be factory installed on future production games!
Quoted from RobF:Well done Charlie. Two questions.
1) When the new parts are available, will new games be built with these going forward?
2) Do you plan a little play testing of your first prototype of the updated bushings to see if you can provide some kind of qualitative assessment between the two? Not that Pinside isn't the de facto truth for all and everything....but it sure would be nice to hear from the manufacturer the results of their own Pepsi challenge.
I am also curious if the whitewood or the early proto games have the flippers sitting lower than the production versions.
(1) was answered in Charlie's post..."they'll be factory installed on all future production."
Quoted from RobF:2) Do you plan a little play testing of your first prototype of the updated bushings to see if you can provide some kind of qualitative assessment between the two? Not that Pinside isn't the de facto truth for all and everything....but it sure would be nice to hear from the manufacturer the results of their own Pepsi challenge.
Hey Rob,
Since I pushed for this change as a side-effect of investigating issues with my right flipper, I wanted to comment briefly.
Lowering the flipper bushing by 1/8" is a really simple change that I'm certain Spooky will "play test"...
I don't know about Pinside and de facto truth, but the players/collectors on Pinside are where new pinball machines receive their real-world alpha/beta testing. When I worked in "big tech", we had very large...very expensive alpha/beta programs for OS releases. Since pinball companies don't have the resources to do vast, sponsored platform testing, the Pinside community is the next best thing.
What's exceptional about Spooky, is they recognize this and are responsive to feedback...which is one reason I feel great about my purchase. I'm not looking for perfect pinball machines (I already know they don't exist. I'm looking to support a company that's passionate about their products and "do right" by the community. Charlie's response today is one example of this.
I know many of us are capable of fixing this on our own, but having this corrected at the factory will help guarantee more machines will benefit from this fix. Not everyone purchasing these games is capable or motivated to fix flipper bushings.
Quoted from harryhoudini:Has anyone else experienced the flipper coil settings not affecting the power of the flipper at all?
Specifically I'm talking about lower right flipper. I've been messing with this since I got the game, trying to get the ball up the left ramp. EOS adjusted, flipper gapped properly, no binding, etc. A setting of 30 versus 50 provides pretty much no difference in strength of shot. There is obviously an art to the timing of left ramp shot but from a cradled ball it is almost impossible to make at either power. I found it really odd as I kept turning the power up during my investigating (playing 20-30 games between changes) that when I just went from 50 to 30 there is no difference I can tell at all. I would have expected something drastic. At 50 I could still barely roll the ball over the top of that ramp, same as I can do at 30. I'm not looking to tune out the skill needed but I want to know why the flipper shows no difference.
This is on a fresh machine, the coil is not overheated. In fact, while I have monitored the temps I don't notice a ton of change to flipper strength over time. I never bothered checking my other machines for this (do other games have the heat issue?) but I also never have any issue with the strength of the coils on B/W and JJP games. I just redid my TOM and the flippers are amazingly sharp and clean.
Something just doesn't feel right with the flippers in general. They are still at factory positions (about a pencil thickness away from the playfield holes) and I have zero hope of ever being able to backhand that left ramp like this so I'm thinking about lowering them closer to the alignment holes.
One also has to question why the holes were put where they were if the flippers aren't meant to align with them? All I can think of is that this is a change to setup after issues with the stock hole locations. Otherwise, that's where you put the holes, no?
Anyhow, looking for any feedback on this. I am going to toss some cooling fans in there next to see if it does in fact do anything but on a fresh machine I can't see how this is an issue. Sorry if this was further discussed in the last 400 posts, miss a few days and there is no way to catch up!
Check to see if your game has the build defect I discovered yesterday (and fixed today).
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aw-jeez-official-rick-and-morty-club/page/180#post-6015874
Didn't completely solve my right flipper power issue, but definitely improved it.
Quoted from vilant:...but I assure you it has the same effect as grinding down a bushing to lower the bat.
[quoted image][quoted image]
I'm not a mechanical engineer (or physics guru), but I doubt this is true. My bushing is 3/16" off the PF. If the bushing is lowered 2/16", the bat will be sitting 2/16" lower in the clamp, which (I believe) will improve the operation of the flipper.
Flipper tuning/performance is really an art/skill. If you add the proper "flipper gap" to the 3/16" off the PF, the bat ends up being held too close to the end of the bat. By lowering the bushing, the bat will be "choked" at the position it was designed for.
Based on much trial/error over the years, I've seen minor changes to the flipper gap effect flipper performance. DILE is a great example...many folks were complaining about poor flipper performance when the game was released. The problem was the factory "gap" wasn't right...factory flippers were binding (causing loss of power). Simple adjustment improved flipper performance dramatically.
Not saying your lower flipper rubber isn't a good low-effort, short-term improvement...just pushing back on your assertion that "it has the same effect".
IMG_2948 (resized).jpegQuoted from cooked71:Any chance of voices for Gerry, Beth and Summer? Real or voice actor, I don’t mind, but they’re really missed IMO.
This game is so far ahead of almost every pinball I've ever owned (in terms of dialogue), I can't say I miss the other characters much. Would definitely be cool if one of the adventures included Gerry/Beth/Summer. Maybe a wizard mode to hold out the carrot?
Quoted from kermit24:Are there other types of bushings available that are the correct height?
Not for B/W flipper assemblies, apparently. If an existing bushing worked better, it would have been discovered by now. As Charlie said, modifying the bushing requires retooling (which I'm sure they would avoid if possible).
Quoted from SgtStryker:I have a question about the Rick and Morty Pin. I haven't watched the show, my brother has told me it's fantastic and I have to watch it. I'm sure I'll get around to it some day but unfortunately I don't have the time right now. My brother did tell me that the show is very adult and I've read that the Rick and Morty pin has a family friendly mode. I don't know if what I've read about the Rick and Morty Pin having a family friendly mode is true and if it does have a family friendly mode, Is it truly a family friendly? I have young kids and my wife would lose her mind if I bought a pin that was too adult. I'm considering buying the Rick and Morty Pin, even though I haven't seen the show. The lay out looks really cool and the lighting looks great too and the kids, I'm sure would think the space theme is cool. Thanks in advance for the help.
Everyone's definition of family friendly is different. If your wife would "lose her mind", then I wouldn't take the risk. Your brother is right...it's very adult. I haven't fiddled with family friendly mode on mine, but even if it's "ok", your kids will seek out the show after playing the game. And the show doesn't come with a "family friendly" mode That's what happened to me. Never watched the show before getting the game...bought it because my son (in college) loves the show and asked me to get one.
Quoted from MrCleanHead:Approx .105" thick acrylic spacer. I think you will need longer screws, dont know since I dont have my RaM yet to test fitment. The spacer fits over my WMS/BLY replacement bushing so it should work just fine. LMK if there is any interest in this TEMPORARY MOD and I will create a pinside listing. $6 shipped for 3 of them in the US first class. Also if anyone else needs anything made just send me a PM. Lately I have been making acrylic stands for figure mods for various games, I just will need a 1 to 1 template.
Thanks
Rob
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Hey Rob,
Pretty certain that mod wouldn't work at all (though I understand the idea). You need to look at where this bushing fits/operates to see why it doesn't work.
Steve
Quoted from MrCleanHead:I was looking at my TNA, at first I looked at my BSD. BSD will work but it would be tight. TNA the bushing is mounted to the flipper housing assembly. Without taking it apart and assuming that its the same as rick and morty, the only issues that I see that will cause a problem in that the screws are not going to be long enough and the part that clamps to the bat post will be at a slight angle downward. Mine on TNA are the opposite so I dont think will be to much issue there.
If there are any other issues that Im not seeing just let me know. Also, if anyone that is near me wants to try these out hit me up.
Im sure it will be easier just to remove the bushing and grind/file/sand/cut of the desired amount.
If you place your mod in-between the bushing and the mount, it will certainly lower the bushing topside, but the bushing bottom side will not be in the proper position to accommodate the flipper plunger/crank assembly. See photo from another game I happen to have open...same B/W mech Spooky uses.
IMG_2970 (resized).jpegQuoted from razorsedge:Exactly what I was going to write! ... +1
What you Could do though is mount the entire mechs on 1/8" plastic spacers at the 4 feet.
Yeah, but then you need to fiddle with different sized screws, and the screws are very close together (and might not accommodate the spacers).
The flipper mounts on R&M already use 2 different sized screws to mount the flippers! The screws under the apron are longer than the screws under the visible PF. Really odd, but apparently necessary because the PF is 1/8" thinner than B/W and JJP PF's. Very important to remember to mimic what Spooky does if you remove the flipper bracket to replace the bushing, or you might damage the PF topside! I love the job Spooky did on the PF, but wish it was standard thickness to avoid these issues. Not a huge deal, but has unintended consequences as we are seeing.
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:In engineering, part of the fun is that most changes to existing assemblies will have unintended consequences. You just need to think through and catch them. Anyway, I would just wait for the new bushing. That bushing spacer will not work and it is not worth the risk of putting a spacer under your flipper mechs, using too long of a screw, and ruining your nice playfield.
Thanks for weighing in, Scott. Totally agree!
Quoted from pinballinreno:As a temporary fix, I would just lower the entire flipper mech 1/8" by putting 4 drilled square spacers, under the 4 feet of the flipper base plates.
This could be done with very little disassembly.
As its temporary, I would just use the existing screws. At 1/2" depth they should hold up since there are 8.
If too loose, use regular 5/8" playfiled screws if they dont go too deep.
Again, Spooky uses 4 3/8" and 4 1/2" (on the left flipper assembly) to avoid poking through the PF. Fiddling with other sized screws is risky. Just trying to caution against adhoc solutions that might end up messing up your PF.
Quoted from MikeS:Its really not an issue where we can't just wait a couple of months for the new bushings to be available from Spooky. I've been enjoying my game for 6 months and didn't really notice any detrimental effects on gameplay. If you must do something now I think the best solution would be to buy a few WPC bushings and sand or dremel 1/8th inch off the top. The end result would be the same as waiting on the factory solution.
Exactly.
Quoted from monkfe:Why did Spooky use a thinner playfield vs the standard 1/2" playfield that's been around forever in pinball?...
I have no idea, but my R&M thickness measures 7/16"...and my DILE is a tad wider than 1/2" (same with older B/W titles).
Quoted from Zablon:..and yet better quality than many if not all?
No doubt. I am thrilled with my R&M PF in all other respects, but the unintended consequences (bushing/screw height) are unfortunate. I'd much prefer my flippers be fastened with 1/2" screws all around. More secure, and less complexity when doing maintenance. Oh well...Spooky will have to decide if the thinner PF's are a bug or feature...this is my first Spooky pin. I have no idea what width their other PF's are...
Quoted from MikeS:Width is .4735" on my digital caliper. Not sure why it's slightly thinner but this is a nice quality sheet of plywood. If all playfields were this nice we'd have to find something new to complain about.
I also took measurements of my Shadow playfield to compare which was .5245".
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Sweet tool! Thanks for the measurements. Interesting how even though is slightly thinner, it has many more layers. As you say, it's a nice quality sheet of plywood and the print/clear is gorgeous.
Quoted from cooked71:Lowered my bushings today bitches......(there’s a combination of words I never thought I’d use). Easy to do and makes a big difference. Highly recommended....or at least do it when Spooky make some new ones.
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Great job...perfect height! Not surprised it makes a big difference. How much did you lower the bushing...1/8"? I will do mine next week.
Quoted from CaryCarmichael:Good news, everybody!
We figured out that if you break apart some old switch stacks, you have the perfect spacer, which won’t create binding under the playfield.
Literally remove only the 8 screws from each flipper plate foot, and slide one switch stack under each foot of the plate. Use the usual screws you’d find for this mech, and as it turns out there were shorties used on over half the plates a from the factory. Probably for good reason originally, pre-footie.
No need to stress, just check the screw length compared with the plate and new footie plus the playfield. Also the flipper, with pressure on the tip, cannot touch the playfield.
Some photos... in whatever order Pinside decided I wanted them. Notice the left flipper after adding new switch stack footies, compared to the right sitting proud as was found stock.
Enjoy!
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Pretty cool solution! (if you have switches lying around to dismantle...which I don't Definitely easier than disassembling the flippers, but I'm sticking with the Scott/Spooky approved solution of lowering the bushing.
Yeah, the different size screw dance must be a real PITA when populating these PF's. I noticed it when I lowered the scoop as well...was weirded out by the different sized screws (originally thought it was a mistake). Then realized the larger screws were used in places where pop-up dimples won't be seen. Ouch.
Would love to hear the folklore on why these really amazing PF's are ~1/8" thinner. Can't be $$, since Spooky goes all out on the BOM. Will be interesting to see if the next Spooky game goes back to standard size plywood. Really not a fan of the smaller screws for mounting the flippers! Much prefer 1/2" all around.
Problem for you modders out there. The Jerry/Summer/Beth target are very close together and move. As you can see in the photo below, Summer is now in front of Jerry (and overlapping). If you hit Summer, Jerry also gets pushed (and might trigger). A mod (or suggestion) to keep these targets aligned would be great!
IMG_2920 (resized).jpegQuoted from arzoo:I know others have posted similar pics, but thought I also concur, lowering the flipper and changing the flipper angle so it's just above the calibration hole (using a toothpick) absolutely makes the left ramp shot more consistent. In my case I removed 3/32" from each bushings. I could probably have gone to 1/8" safely.
I'll also mention for anyone who's planning to swap out their bushings when Spooky provides the new ones; be aware that the three screws holding the bushing to the mounting plate have small 8mm lock nuts on the back side. I wasn't expecting this and when I removed the first screw the tiny nut fell into the rats nest (which somehow I found). The screws are threaded into the plate, so I guess the lock nuts are for extra security. Bottom line, you have to remove the plate from the playfield (8 wood screws, not all the same size) to remove the bushing.
Bonus question, guess the two pins barely visible from the two slits under the apron.
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Is your left flipper in that photo "stock"?
Quoted from arzoo:That's correct.
Seemed obvious, but I asked because my stock flippers are quite a bit off and I have no clue why. PF is level, but the left flipper sits considerably higher than my right. I know it's not the bushings. The other variables are the flipper plate and playfield thickness. Sigh.
IMG_2926 (resized).jpegQuoted from guitarded:Difference in flipper gap would be the obvious variance I would look at ...unless that is with both flippers not gapped and sitting directly on top of the bushings?
If that is the case, I would pull the bushings put them on a flat/level surface and look to see if the top of the bushings are level?
Gapping doesn't impact where the flippers rest.
Quoted from razorsedge:If there is WAY too much gap (up down travel), the crank/plunger may follow in line with the coil/sleeve (not allow the flipper shaft/bat to drop and rest on the bush face)... so holding the bat and shaft at an elevated rest position (not resting down on the bush face). This would also produce a weaker flipper that might also not really bind either.
Thanks for the response, but I have the B/W gap tool and my flippers are gapped perfectly (yet they are uneven). I'll have to take this to Spooky directly at this point...doesn't make sense to me. I thought that after fixing this problem (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aw-jeez-official-rick-and-morty-club/page/180#post-6015874), the flippers would be in alignment. It helped, but no cigar.
Quoted from goingincirclez:I'd take the flippers out and rest your level on the bushings themselves... That will eliminate extra part and adjustment variables.
If level across the bushings then you need to investigate your flippers/adjustments.
If not level, the isuue is in the mechs (Is each bushing tigthened identically? Is each base plate flush against pf at all 4 corners?)
Quoted from arzoo:Looking at your pic again, I can see a bit of the flipper shaft (metal) above the right flipper (left in the pic). The bottom of the flipper plate should sit flush on the bushing, so maybe razorsedge is correct in that the plunger mech is somehow pushing the flipper shaft up? Goingincirclez had some good suggestions. I would also check that the metal plate on the bottom of both flippers is screwed tightly to the plastic. I guess it's even possible both the flippers are not manufactured identically?
Also, those digital levels can be flaky, I know with mine just tapping it and it will change a tenth of a degree or more.
I've checked most of what you've mentioned...will double check.
Just spent a day lowering the flipper bushings, adjusting the right orbit, etc. No doubt that part of my problem playing this game was the sum of all the little things that needed tweaking! On my second game after the tweaks, got to Love Potion #9 for the first time about to cross 50M on Ball 2.
Unfortunately, then I bumped into this software bug:
https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0dGY3uThGoxh4q
Has anyone else experienced a weird loop/hang on LP#9? Watch video for details. Eric? epthegeek
Quoted from jonesjb:What number of pre-completed stamps did you start on?
IMG_3005 (resized).jpegQuoted from guitarded:Except when it does, got it.
Glad you were able to grind those bushings down, finally. Sounds like your machine is shooting better now.
I see your point, but yeah, I'm pretty experienced/anal about my flipper gaps It is shooting *much* better...thanks for your help. That left ramp is still very steep, so the ball doesn't "fly" up, but it makes it much more comfortably now.
Haven't done the upper flipper yet. The bottom flippers were pretty time consuming. The switch on the left flipper was poorly soldered and broke loose, so I had to redo that as well. Since most of collection has modernized, haven't broken out the soldering tool in awhile. The location of the right flipper was also a PITA...had to remove the support bracket.
Fortunately, I have plenty of time to play with this...like a big puzzle. Rewarding when the game is playing optimally.
Quoted from Zablon:Given how much tearing down/fixing and commenting on the shooting and flipper fade etc, I'm surprised that it took this long for anyone to point out the gap issue.
Well, took me ~2 weeks after unboxing to realize the flipper height was foobar after hunting down another flipper build problem (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aw-jeez-official-rick-and-morty-club/page/180#post-6015874). Flippers on my #175 never felt "right". Based on some earlier posts, I thought it was related to "bad" flipper bushings (which wasn't true apparently).
After fixing/lowering both the scoop and flippers ~1/8", it's clear the root cause of these issues is the non-standard PF width. Since many of the parts were developed for B/W pins, it's pretty important that the PF width match the B/W specs! I really love aesthetics of this PF...couldn't be better, BUT it just seems like deviating on the width is asking for problems. I really don't like having to fiddle with 3/8" screws for mechs like the scoop and flippers that need to be fastened securely. If people that are lesser skilled (or are in a rush) start doing many of the tweaks discussed in this thread, I just know someone is going to use the wrong screw and damage their beautiful PF. Also complicates building these beauties, which must be a pain at Spooky! Still love the game and I'm glad Spooky is listening to us alpha/beta testers. If my game were sold to a newbie (or someone that didn't have the time to investigate/tweak), I'd feel bad for them.
Quoted from Morinack:While i more or less agree, anyone that drops $8k on an unfamiliar hobby without the where withall to hire someone to maintain or the interest to maintain a pin themselves is a bit silly.
I have always believed, Pinball is kinetic art that humans pay money to hammer on. Kinda like giving a pane of glass (read iPad) to a 6 yr old. These things are imperfect and prone to breaking.
That said, i do agree that measurements must be considered for things like PF depth for hardware that penetrates said PF. Happy Spooky sees that and is willing to offer a proper fix.
Not sure I grok the iPad analogy...I worked for Apple for many years and iPads are incredibly reliable consumer devices (even in the hands of kids).
In any event, I agree with your opening statement, but it's a matter of degree. If I had to pay someone to find/fix the problems I've already dealt with as a new owner, the bill would be significant. I would imagine most techs charge a minimum of $50 per/hour. I've spent 10-20 hours on diagnosing/fixing problems, and if I had to pay someone $500-$1000, within the first 2 weeks of ownership, well, I wouldn't be happy.
When I purchased my first NIB game (Lord of the Rings) in 2004, within the first month, the "Gimli switch" failed. The distributor that sold it to me came to my house and installed a new/improved switch. After that brief service call (which was free), the game has played flawlessly for the next 16 years! No joke. They don't make 'um like that anymore!
Quoted from epthegeek:After the last public build I leaned in to what helped reduce the freezing situation previously even more (was afraid to try it before the release in case things went wrong) and feedback from the testers is that the freezing is gone completely now.
That's great news! Since many people have been effected by the freezing, do you have plans for a mini update to squash the freezing bug? Seems like getting it out asap is a win/win. If it's a simple bug fix, it helps us. If it's a complex bug fix, it helps you get air time on the fix.
Quoted from pinball_ric:The other issue is for some reason my first game doesn't have the problem with airballs off the right ramp that people have commented on previously in the thread however game two does and it's pretty significant. It makes hitting the right ramp pretty hard as quite often the ball will just go flying all over the place and not go around the ramp. The only difference I've noticed is that the ramp sits farther forward on the problem game. The heights of the ramp appear to be the same or at least very close. We haven't figured out how to solve the issue yet. Hopefully at some point we can figure something out since we have a 'good' game to compare to.
I really want to be excited about how fast Spooky is cranking out the games but it is my opinion that it's at least partly because of the lack of QC going into games coming off the line currently. I hope others don't have similar or even worse issues when they get their games.
Have you checked to see if the right ramp flap is entirely flush with the PF? And that the screws are below the ramp? If the flap or screws stick up at all, it will send the ball flying. My example doesn't have this problem, so I haven't dealt with it on RAM...but I've had other games with ramp flap issues.
Quoted from Eric_S:R&M 394 was picked up yesterday. Enjoying it quite a bit, but it is brutal.
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Quoted from RobT:Congrats!
Brutal indeed. Be prepared to have your ass handed to you. Repeatedly. But eventually it will all come together, you will have a great game, and then you won't be able to stop pressing the start button over and over...
No doubt it's brutal, but the brutality is amplified (big time) if your game isn't dialed in. For me, the 4 biggest issues that effected my ability to play the game were: (1) my loop diverter was bound. (2) my flippers weren't "right" in several respects, leading to weakness (especially with the left ramp). (3) the right orbit guide needed to be pushed back. (4) my scoop needed to be lowered (if it's not lowered, you get tons of rejects).
All of these are mentioned somewhere in this vast thread (along with many others).
After finishing these tweaks, the game is much more approachable. Already putting up new GC's (of 50-60M) and reached Love Potion #9 for the first time.
So, don't get discouraged. If it makes you feel like you've never played pinball before, there is hope!
Quoted from arzoo:Now that we've had some time playing with all three of the flipper bushings adjusted (lowered 3/32") and the lower flippers set just above the alignment holes, it's crazy how much different the pin plays. It seems way faster (and it was already fast)! The orbit shots fly around super fast, and the ramp shots hit the top so fast that now I'm getting some rejects. I may actually lower the flipper coil settings (even though I don't think they do anything). I'm not sure why having the ball hit more of the "meat" of the flipper rubber would make the game faster, but it definitely seems to have done that!
Awesome! Seems like getting more of the flipper rubber to make contact with the ball might partially explain the dramatic improvement. Can you take photos of your bottom flippers? I'd like to see your PF/flipper gap @ 3/32". Thanks.
Quoted from arzoo:Looking at the pic, it seems like my left flipper (right in picture) is not exactly parallel to the pf. Hmmm, this would have to be something with the mounting plate below. Or maybe it's just a shadow in the pic? Not gonna worry about it
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Your left flipper doesn't look level with the right (which is something I've noticed on mine).
On my stock flipper setup, my left flipper was .55 higher than the right. After I lowered the bushings, it improved to .35 higher than the right.
Yes, the PF was level in both instances
Wasn't able to figure out why the flippers aren't level...game is shooting great, so I'm not losing sleep over it!
IMG_2926 (resized).jpegIMG_3002 (resized).jpegQuoted from Kevlar:Mine is even worse than that, the tip of the left flipper is about 5mm higher than the base of the flipper. It's always bugged me, but I never got around to fixing it. Now the new bushings are coming I'll sort it out when fitting them.
I tried to figure it out, btw and gave up. I even took the apron off to help see what was going on. My "lift" isn't much, so I'm not that concerned. It is interesting that several of us have this. Keep us posted if you figure it out...
IMG_2996 (resized).jpegQuoted from guitarded:That would have to be the feet on the flipper mounting bracket not being square to the PF, no?
All things being equal...gotta be those mounting tabs / feet that are screwed to the underside of the PF.
Unless the Flipper Bushing collar isn't uniform thickness? Maybe try rotating the bushings if you are in there...if that doesn't change the angle, it has to be the bracket assembly.
I suspect the bracket assembly, but it's odd several of us are seeing it (guess it could be a bad batch...?). No doubt the shaved bushing might be off a tad, but I had this issue with the stock bushings as well (which are uniform).
I should have looked more closely when I had the bracket off...oh well.
Quoted from razorsedge:Is the corner of the flipper plate (at the extreme left) mounted on top of the edge of the black printed spacer for the P-roc switch board?
Is the edge of the black spacer jammed between the flipper plate and the playfield there? . Mine is hard up touching each other there. That would kinda match the misalignment you have as well.
If not I'd be looking at how the bush is in relation to the flipper plate. May have debris under mounting flange or a burr, even may be damaged/distorted or something. That is a very large amount for a flipper plate to be out of spec. It's more than a millimeter, which would stand out like a sore thumb to look at from underside.
Others have had flipper plates mounted with other parts sandwiched between plate and playfield, so it is worth checking for that thoroughly. There are a few spots it can potentially happen, another game had right flipper mech with ball save spacer sandwiched between.
There are no obstructions since I took the flipper mech off entirely to lower the bushings.
Out of the box, I had the right flipper obstructed by the display, but I fixed that before dealing with the bushings (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aw-jeez-official-rick-and-morty-club/page/180#post-6015874).
Quoted from razorsedge:Maybe one of the bushing screw threads has a bur on it or something, skewing it?
Can you see if the bushing is mounted nice and flush on the flipper plate?
When Spooky distributes the official lowered bushings, I'll dig into this again and double check everything you (and others) have mentioned.
For now, I'm more interested in playing than "dialing in", and the flippers have improved dramatically over the past week or so (so I'm good for now).
Thanks for the help!
Quoted from guitarded:Because you are apparently too stupid to set it in place (try some BlueTack, or set it inside a small washer) for a photograph that you can post online to accompany your whinging bitchfest.
I gave you a solution. Either fix it or don't. Buy stop whining.
I just reread your obnoxious post from last week (which was "moderated" to "be nice").
My "whining" is what led to Spooky/Charlie agreeing to fix the flipper bushings for all it's customers.
I don't need your approval or "pat on the back", but your rude post is highly objectionable. Fortunately, others downvoted the post appropriately.
Please treat people with the respect they deserve. I've been a productive member of Pinside for over 8 years, I don't need a relative new comer telling me I'm stupid.
Quoted from RobT:So the flipper coil bracket might be the issue that some people are having. Is there any way to confirm whether a bracket is out of spec?
I think it's unlikely the bushings or brackets are out of spec. My right flipper was installed improperly (over the display) and all my flippers were too high (lowering the bushings solves it). My issue with the left flipper could be the bracket, but I doubt it. Rum-Z's comment about he clearcoat was eye opening!
Here is an excerpt from one of o-dins posts you forwarded: "in this case it has to be the mounting plate itself if all playfields are the same thickness."
We determined the RAM PF isn't the same thickness as classic B/W PF's...which the mounting plate and bushing were originally designed for.
Quoted from guitarded:You are still doing it. Haven't really stopped, yet...
Maybe it is just a personality flaw? Anyway, Merry Christams and maybe work on that in the coming year?
No flaw...no work necessary! You have some kind of axe to grind...guess you like being a keyboard warrior from some "unknown" place with 0 feedback.
Quoted from guitarded:That's cool, brah.
Glad you decided to follow my advice and ground them down finally.
Hasn't helped with your whining - but it has improved your game performance, so we'll call that a win.
Thanks for all you do, brah.
Now, I'm whining about a totally different problem, but I guess you have reading comprehension issues.
The bushing issue was solved days ago and your advice didn't help one bit. I only take advice from people I know/respect...have no idea who you are.
Pinside is a place for airing/solving problems (which apparently disturbs you). Tough.
Quoted from jonesjb:Okay, so you have your Rick and Morty dialed in, screws are removed as appropriate, you have your rattle tape... But do you want to get it smooth to the next level? So I noticed sometimes right orbits would not function as expected, sometimes a portal would return to the inner orbit, sometimes it would go to the portal as expected. It was random, but then I figured it out. It would close as expected, but the spring led return was getting hampered. A few shots to the orbit (to a expected open diverter, which wasn't closing to the back properly), would eventually nudge it open enough to finally work. It was random, and confusing. So anyway...
Here are 2 tips you might not be aware of, and 1 (to not be an idiot like me):
1. Make sure the cylinder that connects the diverter through the playfield is not touching the edge of the orbit. This will rub, and eventually make it so it doesn't close properly. I removed the last ballguide screw and shifted it a slightly away from the diverter.
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2. Are you getting airballs on your right ramp? Is your right ramp shot not as clean as it can be. Make sure the edge of the left metal guard is at a right angle. It was originally at an obtuse angle, and stuck out about 2 mm from the wall, making my ramp not as clean.
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As for the other tip... Make sure the wire leading from the back of the playfield doesn't get stuck in the solenoid. This will also affect the diverter smoothness.
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Thanks for the tip on the right ramp guard. I just bent mine to hug the ramp and it opened up nicely...much smoother.
As far as airballs go, it seems like the obvious culprit is the large/left rivet that is in the ball path. Smaller rivets positioned closer to the flap corners would likely solve the airball problem.
Quoted from RobT:I'm sure that can be an issue, but another cause of airballs is having the rubber on the flipper bats positioned too low (not that you are doing this).
I had never had any airball issues to speak of. Based on the earlier discussions in this thread about the flipper bats being too high, and people placing the rubber lower on the flipper bat to compensate, I tried the same thing on mine.
Even though I did not put the rubber *that* much lower, it was enough to create massive airballs from both lower flippers. I did a test game with the glass off, and literally within the first 30 seconds of playing, a ball went flying out of the pin onto the floor. It was crazy.
I obviously put the flipper rubber back where I had it (pretty much right in the middle of the bat) and things are back to normal.
Interesting. Yeah, I actually don't have a big problem with air balls, but still think the rivets should be out of the ball path as much as possible. Not a big deal, just a quirk.
I'd like my flippers to be lower than where they are now (with my lowered, adhoc bushings), but the game is playing great, so that too isn't a big deal. I'm hopeful Spooky will nail the height in the new bushings.
Quoted from JustEverett:Turn down the flipper power. It's likely that now your flippers are making more direct contact with the ball so the higher power could be too much after your adjustments.
FYI...Luke @ Spooky told me the software setting for dialing the flipper power down/up don't do much (or anything, IIRC).
Quoted from Pinball-Obsessed:I took a picture of the spacing of my flippers to the playfield.
Seems like a lot if height off the playfield.
Does this look like I will need new bushings
?
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Your left flipper looks like mine, where the tip is higher than the base.
Quoted from TherealDroopy:Anyone else have an issue where you make it into the garage but it doesn't eject out of the scoop at the flippers and you end up with two balls in the subway? The first time if I remember correctly a ball search didn't work to eject it. Not sure if its a code thing or if the ball is skipping switches/optos? Hasn't happened to often. Just curious if there's a known cause and possible solution.
I had an issue where entering the subway didn't cause the preloaded trough ball to immediately eject. It would travel down to the VUK and then realize 2 balls were in the trough and a ball needed to be kicked out. It was caused by a bad connection to to the subway entrance (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aw-jeez-official-rick-and-morty-club/page/178#post-6007267).
Quoted from jsa2145:Yes some people posted this situation before. It was recommended to try and align the meeseeks target closer to the flipper tip I think (thus reducing the corner gap between target and rail)
don't yet have my game to compare unfortunately !
Thought about that, but that requires a mod to prevent these targets from moving (something I posted about recently) OR the need to constantly reposition meeseeks to help prevent this (PITA). Not a huge deal for home play, I guess, as long as it doesn't happen too often.
Quoted from PinMonk:I like the way you think, I was the same way. The problem is since the right upper flipper is flipping in tandem with the lower flipper, it's getting hot as well. In addition to extreme heat, I have video of one just failing - it stops working at all - until it cooled a bit on the next ball because it got so hot (I don't know why as I only have the video, was it swollen from the heat? Dunno.). So that is a heretofore unknown issue to me. I didn't know they could stop working. Plus, I would think that over time 180F+ on the playfield is going to cook the wood and end up with something like magnet burn that will eventually show through to the top. So there are cosmetic concerns, too.
None of this is a problem if your sessions are 30 minutes or less because the extreme heat doesn't come into play. But if sessions are typically 60 minutes or more, definitely an issue, especially on Rick and Morty, which has the highest coil temps with long play of any machine I've tested so far.
How long was your test that caused the flipper to stop working? Seems like a big problem for R&M's in the wild (when they return to life post COVID).
Wonder if there are software/hardware tweaks that could help, since I've never heard of Stern/JJP/BW failing from heat exhaustion...
Quoted from PinMonk:That was sent to me, so I only know the temp was over 180F and the flipper stopped working temporarily.
I don't think it would be a problem (non working flipper) in the wild since the machine would have to be played non-stop for something like 90 minutes or more with no breaks, and that's not usually the way location pins go unless it's a hardcore pin player hangout.
Good point, but I had my LOTR in a high traffic free play arcade (where you pay an hourly rate) and it was getting over 1000 plays per week IIRC.
Quoted from jonesjb:I solved this by putting a washer under the one side (under the playfield, closer to the center of the playfield), it will slightly tilt it and prevent the issue.
I decided to move my meeseeks target left...the right justified install on my game just looked "off". The new location looks more natural/centered and reduces the gap with the flipper considerably (which should prevent the ball from being trapped).
IMG_3051 (resized).jpegIMG_3054 (resized).jpegQuoted from jonesjb:Looks great! How did you do that? Did you drill holes?
Thanks! Correct...but I didn't use a drill
First, I used some "Alien Tape" to reposition the target without drilling new holes (to see if I liked the new location). Once I was happy with the new placement, I was fortunate there was enough distance for new holes (that didn't overlap with the old holes). On my game, the target placement was "off" by a lot IMHO. If it were only "off" slightly, it would have been much tougher to drill new holes without filling the old ones (which is a PITA).
Quoted from arzoo:I'm guessing that this issue never came up during testing, so Spooky assumed the engineering was fine. Most R&Ms have yet to have the part break (mine included), but I think by now there's enough evidence that the design or part needs to be changed. But if not, I've already ordered the backup from PinballLife, because with pinball, shit happens
Seems like the PITA isn't the replacement cost, but the time to install it. Mine hasn't busted yet. I imagine the mech that pokes it might contribute to games where the plastics are breaking (if it's not adjusted properly). So if someone replaces the plastic, they should make sure the mech isn't poking it too aggressively.
Quoted from PunkPin:I think someone mentioned it is tied to the up post in the horseshoe so can't be disabled
Maybe, but I imagine you can adjust the mech down to the point where it does nothing (or just taps it lightly).
Quoted from goingincirclez:I know it's been discussed, but that type of plastic really isn't designed to flex. For the trouble of switching to a more elastic plastic, I have to suspect a piece of die-cut spring steel in the same shape, would work a lot better and last almost forever. To preserve cosmetics they could laminate it with a mylar sticker of the same art currently beneath the transparent part.
Speaking of mylar... has anyone tried laminating a broken part with some mylar strips, or even thick clear packing tape, to see if that would work any better? Thin strips of mylar might make a decent hinge where the range of motion is pretty limited. Certainly couldn't hurt to try this if the original breaks and you don't have a spare. You'd have to laminate both sides of the part across the break... with a small gap between them to allow the laminate "hinges" to flex without forcing the bottom one to stretch (the bottom would flex upward; the top would compress into the gap; both would be needed to keep the parts aligned and prevent the mech/ship from simply flopping over & getting stuck).
I agree with you (not a wonderful design). It's not that exciting a feature, which is why people are looking for ways to disable it (to avoid plastic breakage).
I imagine the modding community might improve on this...
Given all the other tweaks throughout this thread, I imagine Spooky has more important fish to fry (like the flipper bushings).
Quoted from razorsedge:I adjusted the settings quite a bit. Made it from unacceptable to very acceptable. Nothing washed out really at all about how it looks now, from side angles too.
It works fine for what I expect in a pinball machine.
Interesting. I assume the settings are on the LCD itself? Are they labeled and fairly easy to fiddle with?
Quoted from PinMonk:There's a board next to the controller on the back of the LCD you can use to adjust brightness/contrast. Also, if gamma is off on yours, turn it on.
Gamma was off. Turning Gamma on and turning down the contrast made a big difference! Thanks...
Also never noticed the Spooky backglass is old school...not a plastic translite. Sweet.
Quoted from jonesjb:vireland’s fan and the LCD screen are some of the best mods you can make to this game, and it’s funny because the nature of these mods means you don’t know how much of an improvement they are unless you experience in person.
I'm curious...did you compare your new LCD screen with a dialed-in stock LCD? (or just give up on it). Even though the audio took some fiddling to dial-in, I'm really happy with the results. Ditto for the LCD after fiddling with the gamma/contrast settings.
I'm all for mods when necessary, but avoid them when not. For example, the stock speakers and amp that ship with most Stern games are just awful. I've added PinWoofer systems and the results are amazing. Don't see the need to add PinWoofer to R&M.
No complaints on the LCD from me (especially after making the tweaks vireland suggested). I'm more finicky about audio, and after dialing in Spooky's audio setup, I think it's awesome (10x better than Stern's stock audio on their Premiums).
This is my first Spooky game and I'm happy with the BOM and game in general.
My hope is Spooky sharpens it's build quality and continues to incorporate feedback from the trenches. Love my buttah cab, PF, and overall design...just too many build mistakes...diverter bound (shot not possible), scoop too high (leading to rejects), flippers too high (leading to flipper weakness), right upper flipper ball guide very poorly aligned with flipper (making a lot of shots more difficult than they should be)...just to mention 4 of the build snafus that made this game much harder to play than it should be.
Quoted from kermit24:I actually think deleting all add ons to make the manufacturing process simpler would be a good thing for Spooky. Just include the no-brainer ones and raise the price of the game. No one is ordering the "base model" anyways. Just put things like target decals on the game instead of charging $10 for them. Having a sheet of paper taped to each game with the specific options has to prolong and distract the production process. Focus on important things like proper wiring harness tension and not if this buyer opted for plastic protectors.
Butter would be the exception (I guess).
I agree. Streamlining manufacturing would help add time/focus on the important things.
I'm hoping they keep the butter option as long as they are making money on it. I believe 25% of the Blood Sucker Editions are being ordered with the butter option. That's much higher than I would have expected, and proof it's sought after. Never thought it was a good use of 1k, but after owning one, I'm converted...well worth it (unless you have it in a really tight lineup and can't enjoy it). Even then, I would argue the butter cabinet makes the game more exclusive and it makes the game more desirable to the LE crowd. I never plan on selling mine, so I just like the eye candy aspect (and durability).
I like to play in a dark room and have Pinstadium's on many of my games. I have an extra set and was considering installing them on R&M. Have you added Pinstadium's? Do they plug into the service port? Pleased with the result? Thanks for any feedback.
Quoted from jonesjb:I received my new legs, and they were much better and fixed, to be safe, I put a black plastic protector with felt underneath... however, I used rubber cement on both the felt and plastic protector (let it dry), then stuck together. Works perfectly.
I also bought the mantis protectors, but did not use them - they'd require me drilling holes into the cabinet which I'm not prepared to do.
I received new legs too, and they were better (thanks Luke
I'm able to slip a piece of paper between the leg and cabinet (which I couldn't do before). The left side of the leg is so close it's actually hard to tell if it's touching.
On both sets of legs, it was only the left side that is malformed. The new legs are still too close (and look "off" compared with the right side), however they are an improvement. Considering all pinball legs are apparently manufactured by the same company, I wonder why R&M legs seem to be more problematic than other manufacturers. Odd.
Quoted from epthegeek:Where are you getting legs from that their position is labelled? lol
Sorry...don't get the joke. Since I paid $1000 for the butter cabinet, I don't find anything funny about the damage they caused.
In any event, I mentioned the position because my cabinet damage was in the same place on each leg...the left side.
IMG_2874 (resized).jpegQuoted from Spiderpin:Is he talking about the front left or the right back. They are interchangeable.
Obviously...the point is all 8 legs I've received are misshapen in the same exact place...it's not random.
Quoted from PinMonk:So maybe worn die at the manufacturer is actually the root cause...
Bingo...that was my point. Based on my sample of 8 legs, it's highly unlikely this is human error.
Quoted from rockrand:Is the butter cab worth 1000.00?
Yes...if you have the $$. Even if you sell it down the road, I'm convinced it will be a desired feature and you will get your money back (since it's "limited" and gorgeous). Just look at what Stern customers pay for LE's and they get very little in return. Shit, the art and clear on my Spooky cabinet looks nice than many Stern PF's The craftsmanship is amazing.
Many owners in this thread have adjusted many of the ball guides on R&M. The only ball guide I adjusted is the guide that feeds the right upper flipper, which improved the feed to the flipper considerably.
At the moment, the only "bogus drains" I'm getting has to do with the right orbit and diverter. When I nail the orbit with the left flipper (while the diverter extended), the ball often goes straight down the right outlane. Does this happen to other folks?
I know there are recommendations to adjust the loop guide, but I thought that was for when the ball is moving in the other direction (from the upper flipper).
Thanks for any advice.
I've resisted fiddling with the ball guides until I had enough plays to start seeing what didn't feel quite right. Top on the list was frequent right outlane drains after nailing the right orbit with the diverter enabled. Very annoying...ball is suppose to be delivered to the upper flipper as much as possible (though it depends on the velocity of the ball). Not suppose to drain immediately after nailing the right orbit.
My bend was similar to the one documented by Yeolbird (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aw-jeez-official-rick-and-morty-club/page/46#post-5613058), but not quite as dramatic (e.g. I didn't remove the black sleeve standoff). I've been shooting with this change for a few days and I'm really happy with it. Just had a game where I nailed the right orbit and immediately nailed the garage from the upper flipper...great feeling combo. Wasn't possible with the previous ball guide bend. And no more right outlane drains after nailing the right orbit
Here is a before/after photo. Thanks to Pinball-Obsessed for planting the megaseed
Image 1-12-21 at 9.57 AM (resized).jpegQuoted from arzoo:I have a love/hate relationship with my R&M. I absolutely love the theme and theme integration, no other pin has ever harassed the player like Rick does! I hate how often shots are rejected, so often I find myself counting how many in a row, cursing each and ever one (and I've spent like 50+ hours adjusting this pin). I love the way the Dimensions alter the game play, the way bonus works with Megaseeds, and the way Meeseeks increase and then decrease shot values, just brilliant simple rules! I hate how often I walk away angry after a bunch of shitty games in a row. I love how it pulls you in and you just have to try again. Did I mention I hate the shot rejects? And then I love when it all just comes together and I have an absolutely great game!
Read my mind...! For me, it seems like only 2 of 10 games is satisfying (where satisfying means I play for over 2-3 minutes and score 5-10M). With JP2, which is a "shooters game", I was able to dial in my shots and 7 of 10 games is satisfying (MUCH longer games). As Scott has said, this game will be more brutal for on-the-fly players like me.
Since it's my first Spooky game, maybe I'm just not use to the flipper action? Which is definitely different than my other games. Disorienting when the flippers fall back when hit while extended.
Still more love than hate...just hoping I improve. Don't recall feeling this demoralized by a game in a long time! When I moved on to a game like STTNG earlier today, it feels so easy...reached the Final Frontier and got GC.
Quoted from JustEverett:Super tempting. AIQ is a theme I have no interest in, but every time I play the pro at a local spot I’m really drawn in. It’s a great game.
I just let my AIQ Pro go after a few months. Really fun shooter, but the theme, goofy callouts and lame music started annoying me.
Quoted from mariobeans:What would you replace them with? Do you know which bushings spooky is sending out? Do they have to make custom? I'd prefer just to order some asap because pretty much all rubbers are getting destroyed except superbands, but I've seen complaints of superbands causing more spin to the balls which I do notice.
Also are you're flippers getting knocked down about 40% after being hit by the center scoop? Are the solenoids just weak (high hold)? Hoping I can just try coils from a different manufacturer, but I know nothing about coil compatibility.
After lowering my 2 bottom flipper bushings, the knock down isn't as common/annoying. Didn't lower my upper flipper yet and the knock down is more annoying...when I nail the right orbit/loop and the ball comes flying back at the upper flipper.
Question for people with other Spooky titles: Is the flipper knock down a problem on other Spooky games?
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:Knockdown was an issue with TNA early on because of the scoop firing at full power directly at the right flipper. I mitigated it with software, but I am going to have to try the lowering of the bushings and see if that helps even more. I know on my game it is not an issue, but the different games seem to all have different results. This is pretty neat and helpful to read what you guys are finding here. Thanks!
--Scott
Thanks for the background, Scott. I appreciate your perspective/help!
Now that I've dialed-in the inner loop/diverter (and can get the ball from the right orbit->upper flipper, it's really noticeable how prone to knockdown my upper flipper is. Since the ball isn't traveling at full power VUK type of speeds, this surprised me. If you guys can mitigate this with some software tweaking, it would be awesome (or tell me how to tweak my flippers). This isn't a huge issue...all under the heading of trying to optimize my build to fully realize the design point you were shooting for!
Quoted from jonesjb:I ended up wrapping some mylar around the edge of the hole in the garage. Given the ball really whips around the right orbit, I wanted to prevent the clear from cracking and the wood from chewing up. I checked and it doesn't look like a Cliffy exists for this, but I think there'd be a bit of interest if cliffy made a protector available.
How are other's playfields holding up in this area?
Mine looks like new. I doubt that area will wear at all...no need for a Cliffy. Over the years, I've really moved away from Cliffies unless absolutely necessary. So many scoops shoot like crap with Cliffies installed (STTNG Neutral Zone, KISS VUK, DILE Phone Scoop, etc.). In my home, there just isn't enough play to cause much wear, and I'd prefer the game to shoot well...
Quoted from razorsedge:... also considering how to stop the right orbit portal shot leaping straight across that big hole and comming back down the garage lane so often.
Wow...that's never happened to me (and I've been playing a lot). Good luck finding the issue...
Quoted from Hjbondar:So ... I am about 570. My son claims this game is overhyped, not fun to play and will devalue quickly. He has played it and I have not - but will do so Thursday. He is a much better player than I am. He also claims to have insider info claiming the producers took shortcuts that limited the potential of the game.
While I will make my decision after playing it on Thursday I am interested in the opinions of this austere group on his perspective? Thanks!
This is my first Spooky pin...I have pretty deep experience with Bally, Bally/Williams, JJP and Stern.
My son (25) is the one that asked me to get this game last year...I had no prior knowledge of the show. As a result of getting the game, I started watching the show and love it. As far as theme integration goes, it's pretty awesome...way beyond anything Stern has done in the past decade.
From my perspective, this game is a masterpiece. Only 2 (big) caveats:
- It's extremely brutal...hard to warm up to. It's a quirky love/hate game. It kicks your ass, you curse at it, and then come back for more (with a smile on your face). When you get all the shots dialed in and flowing, it's a really satisfying shooter and just pure fun. The callouts are deep and hilarious. I remember playing TRON when it first came out...hated it. Then, as I got more time on it, ended up becoming one of my favorite games. So, either your son isn't a good enough player to appreciate it, or he just needs more time on it, or...
- If you play a R&M that hasn't been dialed in, it might effect the gameplay considerably. My game (#175) required 40-50 hours of dialing in. Based on this extensive thread, other folks had similar experiences. Even though this game might not look complex, it is...there is a lot of subtle ball control/flow that doesn't fly without some love and care.
Considering the popularity of the show and the amazing art package on this game, I'd be amazed it if "devalues quickly". With only 750 worldwide, I imagine there are at most 500 for this country? Maybe less? And the butter cabinet is a feature that no other company is doing and is stunning in person.
In any event, report back when you get a chance to play it!
Quoted from Soulstoner:Jesus! Is this the fault of bad design or poor quality control?
I’m expecting my game in a few weeks and I’m not looking forward to tinkering for a full work week worth of hours
Building a pinball machine is complex (stating the obvious. Distinguishing between "bad" design, manufacturing, and QC is really only possible by people closely involved with the project. For me, two of the most impactful changes in gameplay were lowering the scoop and flippers (you don't have to make all the changes at once...my tweaks were made incrementally over 4-6 weeks).
The root cause of why the scoop and flippers all needed to be lowered was the R&M PF is considerably thinner than Bally/Williams PF's (e.g. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aw-jeez-official-rick-and-morty-club/page/184#post-6024109). Since Spooky reuses Bally/Williams parts designed to work with PF's that are at least 1/2", it's not surprising these key mechs needed to be lowered. From where I sit, it's impossible to know if the thinner PF on R&M was done consciously (design) or unconsciously (manufacturing). Either way, Spooky manufacturing needs to make their scoop and flipper mechs work harmoniously with their PF (which I believe they are signed up to do). At this point in time, I have no idea what changes are being made on the line.
Quoted from harryhoudini:So are we only talking about flipper mechs and center scoop? Bushing adjustment or washers under the flipper mechs and then washers under the scoop mech?
Practically speaking, yes. Nevertheless, ANY B/W part is prone to being "off". For example, when I was tweaking my Meeseeks target to avoid ball traps, I was struck by how high is was. Doesn't effect gameplay...might just wear in a different location.
The other insidious side-effect is you can't use standard 1/4" screws to uniformly fasten these mechs (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aw-jeez-official-rick-and-morty-club/page/184#post-6023979). If newbies start taking these mechs off and tweaking them, they need to be painfully aware of making sure they don't put the 1/4" screws in visible areas (which Morty thinks is really "weird". This is not only a PITA for us, but for Spooky manufacturing, obviously!
IMG_3051 (resized).jpegQuoted from jonesjb:Does anyone know the screw size that goes into the top of the posts with the sleeves throughout the playfield?
#6-32 x 1/4". I just replaced the ones near the ship with #6-32 x 1/2", since they were just barely long enough to accommodate the plastics with protectors (which led to them falling out).
Quoted from JohnDeere:I tried to use the rail adjustment to differentiate between 'constructive' and whining but to clarify I 100% agree with you on posts that gave us things like rail adjustments, leg warping, code bugs, etc that have given spooky a ton of good feedback that they have taken and ran with. 99% of the posts on here are like that, but sometimes it turns into just straight up attacks or off handed remarks about X thing that should never of passed QC or how i paid all this money and I should never have to change things blah blah. That's just toxic and makes it so we wont have Spooky be in here as often, its also why if you notice most companies don't bother.
I've made 164 posts on this topic and I don't see toxicity or attacks toward Spooky. Just the opposite...I see an excited group of owners that just want the game to play to it's full potential. Spooky is here because they care about their product and customers...worrying about scaring them away? Doubt it. I've been on Pinside for quite awhile and Stern was never engaged on Pinside...they weren't scared away, they just don't care. This is one of the reasons I decided to buy my first Spooky game...if they treated their customers like Stern, I definitely wouldn't be supporting them. Feels good to support a small company that still cares.
Quoted from Rockytop:I got my game last night and could use some help with flipper coil settings.
Hitting the left ramp is a bit of a challenge. I can hit it on the fly, but from a cradle I don't have enough juice with factory settings.
Generally speaking, what coil settings are you all using? (Obviously the pitch of the game has a big impact on this) I'm just tying to get an idea of what most people are doing.
I'm sure this has been discussed, but I haven't read the whole thread.
Might be worth checking this (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aw-jeez-official-rick-and-morty-club/page/180#post-6015874), which effected my right flipper. I also lowered the bushings. Now my flippers are set to the default solenoid power. Left ramp much more achievable now. You should also make sure your flippers aren't binding (they need a slight gap to function at full power).
Quoted from rockrand:Has anybody tryed to used a sub under the game Polk 10 and disconnect the woofer in cab that is causing all the vibration?
Yes, some folks have done this. delt31 IIRC. I prefer this solution (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aw-jeez-official-rick-and-morty-club/page/159#post-5975793), since the cabinet woofer works great.
Quoted from Lounge:Did my two lower flippers yesterday and was pleasantly surprised how much of a difference it made. I’ll be trimming the top flipper bushing today.
I can’t imagine this being someone’s first NIB. My machine has required nearly every tweak on the list.
It's actually the reason I was able to pick one up...a local collector just didn't want to deal with dialing it in so he sold it NIB and made a few bucks.
Fortunately, it's a great game and the effort is worth it. Mine is #175...hopefully the recently produced games have fewer issues.
Quoted from hustle:Oooooeeeee this game is kicking my ass. Great fun when things start flowing, but it's brutal for a beginner like me.
Has anyone tried enabling the scoop eject ball save? It doesn't seem to work, or at least not all the time. I'm running on the latest build.
Also, since I'm already posting, did Spooky confirm they were going to send out new bushings by request? Or should I take the plunge and sand mine?
In reply to the previous post about random extra balls being plunged, I noticed that during a few games tonight, not sure what caused it either.
My scoop eject ball save works fine...I'm also running the latest. Spooky said they would send out new bushings upon request.
On 12/16, I sent "[email protected]" an email entitled "Add me to the list to get new flipper bushings...#175"" with my address.
Quoted from Flynnyfalcon:Listening to Slam Tlit today, Ron was talking about R&M being a clunkfest. I'm still waiting on mine to be delivered so personal experience is limited, but from the gameplay I've seen streamed, it doesn't seem clunky. The Garage shot and left orbit don't look butter smooth, but the rest look good.
Not clunky...just brutal. For some players, it might just be too brutal and I can see those players dismissing it as a clunk fest (especially if they are playing a game that hasn't been dialed in).
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:I can honestly say I am very proud of how this game turned out. <3
--Scott
You should be! This is my first Spooky/Danesi game and I just love the vibe, flow and difficulty. Amazing use of the upper flipper. My son will be visiting me next week...can't wait to play it with him and get his perspective on the game. With COVID, it's said that I'm the only one that has played it.
Quoted from Pinball-Obsessed:I agree that it doesn’t look great. But.... it also doesn’t look horrible and at least you know it won’t crack.
So for anyone wanting a different solution for now, that’s not too costly, this is great option.
I think it’s awesome that someone here on the thread just went ahead and tried to make something that’s an improvement and is offering it to everyone for here for a very reasonable price. toyotaboy nice work!
fwiw, I'm in razorsedge camp on this one (releasing the unwarranted tension is the way to go). If mine ever breaks, I'll just get the Spooky part from PBL and make sure the tension is reasonable. The bobble ship doesn't do much for me as a feature, so keeping with the original makes more sense to me. **IF** making it less attractive enabled a more exciting ship movement, then I'd be all in. Whatever floats peoples boats I guess...
Quoted from Cheeks:I did this and it worked great for the first day and now I'm rattling a little again. Not NEARLY as bad as originally, but more than after first adding them.
Before adding them the glass would slide out on its own. After initially adding them, the glass was snug and didn't move at all. After the first day, it's somewhere in the middle. The glass wouldn't slide all the way out, but it does slowly slide down a couple inches , so things have "stretched out" a bit.
I used the tiny ones and put in 6 per side. Should I add more or should I add a couple of the next size up?
Anti-rattle tape is inexpensive, and proven to work well. Don't know why you'd fiddle with zip ties under the rail if the relief was so short-lived...
Quoted from Manic:Don't you see the black tape on the edges of the glass when in the game then? I've never had to use it so I don't know.
I've used this stuff for years...it's works well and is totally hidden.
Quoted from harryhoudini:If you end up doing your flipper bushings make sure you swap out any of the short screws holding your flipper brackets on. They just strip out of you go to put them back in. Way too short, this is a sample of what I pulled out. Some long, some short.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
REALLY BAD ADVICE! REPEAT: REALLY BAD ADVICE. The long/short screws were placed there INTENTIONALLY (As a result of the PF height which isn't as high as B/W PF's).
I know it sucks, but using 1/2" screws in the visible PF area is asking for PF zits (the opposite of dimples).
The proper way to deal with stripped wood screws is to insert toothpicks to stabilize the threads.
Quoted from harryhoudini:So are you saying that Spooky put long screws where you wouldn't see and shorter ones where it could be visible?
[quoted image]
Correct...and I confirmed this with Spooky support when I was replacing the bushings. It is intentional.
From my perspective, it's a big PITA, but it is what it is. I'm hopeful they go back to standard width PF's for the next title.
Quoted from metallik:2. Seems to be normal for P-Roc games flippers to collapse a bit, and the pop and scoop hit them hard. You can adjust the flipper EOS to close later to help alleviate it a bit.
The upper flipper doesn't use an EOS, and my upper flipper get's bitten my this issue. I tweaked the software setting that's suppose to help with this and noticed a slight improvement.
My son is visiting and absolutely loves the game but called this out as being weird/annoying. I hope a more complete solution is developed...it's really annoying...especially when playing multi balls.
Quoted from jonesjb:I recommend fixing your brushing. That should help resolve flipper issues.
I was one of the first to find/fix the bushing problem. Has nothing to do with flipper fallback.
Quoted from jonesjb:Oh yes, you were, apologies... I didn't notice you were the one that was posting. You've been pretty much on top of most of this. I'm not sure if this will help, but for the lower flippers, I slightly lowered the coil strength for the scoop kickout... It didn't change the speed much but did help with the lower flippers dipping.
It's interesting, the scoop is less problematic for me, but thanks for the support. The upper flipper is more annoying...when the ball loops around the right orbit/diverter and gets delivered to the upper flipper, it falls back pretty often. Super annoying, since fixing the ball guide to actually deliver the ball to the upper flipper was a PITA
I've owned well over 50 games, and not one has had this weird fallback behavior. Seems like a problem with the platform (i.e. hardware/software combo). Hopefully the problem can be solved.
Quoted from jonesjb:I'm fairly sure the reverse inner orbit should be set up to brush across the rubber post. If this is not the case, you should adjust... Hitting the rubber will pitch the ball up slightly.
Not my understanding. Scott confirmed the ball is suppose to be delivered to the upper flipper, which implies it shouldn't be hitting the rubber post.
Quoted from pinballinreno:Flipper collapse/knockdown is part of the P-ROC system for now. Its not Spokky's fault, its just something to work trough.
Dual wound coils might be the only way to fix it, instead of pulse control.
Its taken years to address this on Houdini, and its all but been eliminated with parts and code improvement.
Still there a little but vastly improved.
Not Spooky's fault? Sorry, hard to sympathize with that perspective. How are customers expected to "work trough" flipper fallback?
Every part in the game is there because Spooky chose it! If the Houdini flippers were made to work properly, R&M flippers can be made to work properly. Period.
Again, I love this game, but Spooky needs to fix the flipper fallback, just like they are fixing the flipper bushings. I understand one might be trickier technically, but it's unacceptable to not give us some hope they know how to fix the flipper fallback.
Quoted from metallik:I'd like to know what the difference in operation is in comparison to Stern flippers which do not have this collapsing issue.
The power supply is basically the same.. 48v and plenty of amperge. If I were to replace the entire Spooky flipper assembly with a Stern assembly, would the flipper behave the same as a Stern and not fallback unless under extreme duress? If not, is it possible to connect a scope to the flipper coil drive of a Stern and see exactly how they can PWM their flippers without collapse? It's electricity, a coil, a transistor and code. Data East got PWM flippers working in the 80s, why can't P-ROC get them working just as well decades later?
Exactly. Why not collaborate with the P-ROC provider to solve this problem? Based on another comment, Houdini had this problem as well? If so, the solution should be shared with other P-ROC platforms. Just shocking to me that this isn't getting more airplay.
Again, my son just visited me and just started playing the game and immediately commented on how odd and disorienting the flipper fallback is. It's already a tough game, and bugs like this shouldn't make the game more difficult.
Flipper fallback really sucks during multi-balls. Never experienced this on any Stern or Bally/Williams games.
Quoted from northerndude:No, the flippers work great
So how did you fix the flipper fallback? Curious.
Quoted from RobT:I really think that you need to try and play another R&M if possible.
While I do get flipper fall back on occasion, it is pretty rare overall. It is certainly not a major issue like it appears to be with yours.
I don't have access to another one, Rob. Just to be clear, my flipper fallback doesn't happen all the time. It's most annoying during multi-ball when balls are flying fast and furious. And let's be clear, it's not "me"...it's the game. My son immediately noticed and commented on this, and he's a pretty serious player. Many folks on this thread have experienced it and apparently have seen it in other PROC games. I'm glad you don't think it's a big deal, but I feel differently (and I've adjusted the EOS switches, cranked up the software hold, etc.). Even if I played another game and it was better, all that would indicate is quality differences between games. Again, I've been a collector/player for a very long time and I'm not quick to complain...I've had a boatload of issues with this game that I've fixed without any help from Spooky. I just wish they would be a little more forthcoming on this particular issue. I emailed Luke to see what he recommends...
Quoted from pinballinreno:Recently the team at API has mostly solved the flipper collapse on Houdini with aggressive code analysis and updates, and adding a capacitor in a very specific place.
It has taken a couple years...
The difference is night and day.
Im so happy I hung in there to see Houdini really world class now.
I'm confident that R&M will be even more awesome in the very near future.
Really useful info...thanks!
Hopefully the API solution can be shared with other PROC platforms. Would suck to wait 2 years if this problem has already been solved.
Quoted from Zablon:You can't equate fixing design issues with extras that make you feel good. It just isn't the same. In fact, it's the exact opposite because that money takes away money for the other. It's not about 'sweating' the money either. It's the principal. It's not like we are getting deals on these. We are paying a premium. While that may be chump change for some, for others it represents the limit of what they are willing to spend, so every bit extra is lost cash that realistically shouldn't have been needed in the first place.
And no, I'm not trying to dog Spooky. These same complaints of quality go across all the manufacturers. And while it is what it is with this current release, letting them know where the pain points are is beneficial for future business. I'm very happy with my machine overall, but there is room for improvement.
The problem with design issues is they are sometimes really difficult to fix. Fortunately, most of the issues I've dealt I consider manufacturing issues...not design issues. The flipper bushing issue is a manufacturing issue. Replacing the bushings is a PITA, it's not that big a deal. Tweaking the ball guides is a manufacturing issue. I don't have a problem with any switches, but that too is likely a manufacturing issue.
The only issue that feels like a genuine design issue is how the PROC board interacts with the Bally/Williams Flipper mechs (in terms of heat, fallback, etc.).
Let's face it, Spooky is a small company that doesn't have a huge engineering team. They are integrating components from different platforms, and the flippers are an excellent example of less-than-perfect integration. If PROC is the preferred platform for these boutique pinball vendors, hopefully they can collectively figure this out! I'm pretty certain Spooky is working on making the flippers work better. I've been really pleased with Spooky's responsiveness and ability to take feedback from the trenches...
Quoted from epthegeek:For anybody still having dramatic knockdown issues, check the adjustment of your EOS switches on the lower flippers as mentioned in this key post: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aw-jeez-official-rick-and-morty-club/page/77#post-5706913
We’re still making adjustments on the software side to try to improve things of course, but the EOS opening early helps the flipper recover sooner and is a fairly simple adjustment. The default position for EOS that the flipper mech is built with is meant for ‘switching to hold power’ in a dual wound coil, which R&M isn’t doing. R&M does the exact opposite of that; it’s main use is “when did the flipper go down?”. The sooner a dip is detected, the easier it is for the game to recover.
There will be a small public update soon-ish to make flipper control adjustments and fix a few other issues that have cropped up.
Thanks for the link/help, Eric. On my Stern and B/W machines, I adjust the End-Of-Stroke switch to engage when the flipper is fully extended. The video looks like it's also doing this, so I'm still a little confused. At what point should the End-Of-Stroke engage?
Quoted from northerndude:That’s why there is a “Key posts” area on top of this thread. Click them, and expand them, all main great things, fixes, how to’s, everything is there
Don’t have to sift !!
I like bent98's idea/thought. The "Key posts" are useful, but sifting and judgement are still required. I've been helped by many posts that aren't "Key", and I know I've helped some others (and my posts weren't made "key").
Having a Spooky qualified list would be really useful. The other benefit of having Spooky involved is (in theory) they can identify when they solved some of these issues on the "line" (so people get an idea if their game suffers from a particular problem).
The ship has probably already sailed for R&M, but maybe for the next game? (and hopefully the next game will have fewer issues...).
Quoted from Vhex:This piece just flew off and i can't seem to find its home or even understand what it is.
it came loose when a shot rejected from the left ramp and the ball bounced around the car/house area.
It's about the size of a quarter and bowl shaped with a tiny hole in the middle. anyone know what it is, where it belongs?
Thanks.[quoted image]
Satellite on the house.
Quoted from Rarehero:The only time I’ve seen it happen on mine is a direct bullet-ball from the slam bumper to the flipper. I’ve never seen it happen from multiball or fast horseshoe returns. Then again, I’ve also never had a problem with flipper strength or hitting the ramps nicely. I lucked out, I guess...I dunno!
Yes Greg, you are a lucky man. The Pinball Gods love you more than me! First, my scam R&M (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/beware-of-jonathan-demare-asoa#post-6132804), then I had to pay up to get an example that has needed a LOT of tweaking to play reasonably. Sucks to be me
Quoted from PinMonk:Wow, I just checked it out, you weren't trapping and the temp just kept going up on its own. Crazy. Do you have a pic of the probe installation? Where was it on the coil? Did you verify the fan was actually blowing and something hadn't come loose?
For JJP, I had to move to higher CFM fans because the coils just got too hot (Karl put up an uncooled 249.7F tonight on jjPotC). I'll have to keep an eye on Spooky streams of R&M. If it's still struggling on long sessions I might have to transition Spooky to the higher CFM fans, too.
When are you streaming R&M again?
Your product seems cool, literally, but wouldn't it be awesome if pinball companies figured out how to design a full fidelity flipper that generates much less heat? If a game is being played for 60-90 minutes, it shouldn't require being fanned to function properly. It's 2021! Lower power consumption, higher performance...maybe we need Apple to solve this problem
Quoted from mariobeans:Keep apple far away from pinball.
They design their products to be extremely difficult to repair so they can talk you into upgrading instead of actually repairing the damaged components.
Follow the right to repair group and boycott apple
My point, which you have a difficult time groking, is Apple's M1 Chip is freaking amazing (https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/19/21574057/apple-m1-chips-laptop-performance-intel-qualcomm-competition). Very low power consumption, very high performance and amazing battery life.
I'm proud to be a 20 year veteran of the company you apparently don't like. Have fun boycotting products from one of the best companies on the planet!
Quoted from metallik:WMS had this figured out with Fliptronics and dual-wound coils. They'd warm up and get a little weaker under heavy play, but nothing like we're seeing these days. That system costs more to make, so we're stuck with the current crummy designs
JJP used dual-wound on WOZ but left out the Fliptronics part and JJP flippers were never as good as WPC. Stern flippers are driven better but get hot and weaken too much. Spooky uses WPC assemblies but P-ROC doesn't drive them nearly as well as Fliptronics did.
Spooky: I'll happily pay $100 more per title if you start using Fliptronics boards. No reason to skimp on the most important part of the game.
Interesting background. Thank you. It is interesting that using the WMS flipper mechs without the WMS electronics just doesn't produce great results. The flippers on my STTNG are so much better than my DILE or R&M, yet I believe they use the same mechs.
I too, would gladly pay $100 for WMS feel flippers. Amen!
Quoted from PinMonk:But no moving parts and very low power. Apples to oranges.
Not the point. The point is R&D...innovation. Obviously, different industries, but pinball has been around FOREVER and use to PUSH technology. Now, it's pathetic how we have a hodgepodge of mechs/electronics that don't work as good as the WMS products did 30 years ago. That's my point. Apple is always iterating and improving. Pinball is just focused on slapping stuff together from days gone by. I understand research can be expensive, but slapping half-baked fans on our flippers is just pathetic...I'm sorry if that offends you or anyone else.
Quoted from PinMonk:I think it's a combination of duty cycle plus the fact that modern games have MUCH deeper code now and are played for an hour or more per game if you're very good, where the classic B/W games are much shorter beginning to end overall. But I'm convinced a large part of the difference between JJP/PROC/SPIKE temps and classic fliptronics temps is mainly the duty cycle. I just have to prove it.
fwiw, I'm really impressed with your approach for measuring all this shit. The analysis you do is impressive and I understand you are trying to solve a problem you didn't create God job, Morty
Quoted from Yelobird:Thank You for making all those wonderful products. I personally don't Care how hard they are to take apart and service because who would have guessed, a Good product rarely if ever Needs to be taken apart. Who would have knew! Have the same iMac for 12 years runs like the day I bought it. Thanks.
I appreciate your kind words, and I also have no problem with people that are offended by Apple. Different strokes.
Power consumption is obviously a big issue on many levels. One of the things that has always bothered me is the intense heat that cable boxes generate...even when you aren't watching the TV! It's insane, considering almost every home has a cable box. I replaced my cable box with a very cool running AppleTV/YouTubeTV and have never looked back. If everyone had a cool running TV box, we'd save a lot of wasted energy!
Quoted from PinMonk:Yeah, it's really a crazy side trip. Never intended to be making cooling kits or trying to understand why flipper coils are getting so hot and how SPIKE has somehow cracked the code on managing trap up hold temps, but I think there's an answer there that will help get more reasonable flipper temps on long games. I'm just shocked that none of the current pin manufacturers have done this. It's not brain surgery, it just requires some methodical investigation and can really help their products!
Lucky for them I'm a very good driver.
I hear you. I solved my share of complex software problems in the Apple runtime/OS over the years. In so many cases, the solutions were obvious once you had the right measurement tools and data. As Steve use to say, not "rocket science"
Quoted from RobT:Finally made it!
And then some...
Amazing score! I think my high score is roughly half that...
Quoted from Calfdemon:Uh oh, now you have crossed over into Deeproot territory. Deeproot holds all of the patents on innovation and no one else is allowed to go there. Now, if you want an actual pinball machine to play, then we know that non-innovation works. If you want innovation, then we can pretend to play pinball with all of the innovation that Deeproot has produced.
Cute. I don't even know who Deeproot is. My point was simple, it's pathetic that flippers in a home use environment need fans to achieve full performance. A pin in a heavily traveled free play arcade is another story (where the game might be played continuously for 8 hours).
Quoted from Zablon:Well, I disagree that in normal home use they are needed. Unless your house is a hotbox. Most people aren't playing a single machine for 2-3 hours on end. If you are a streamer, I get it, but otherwise, most people simply don't need them. I've been monitoring my temps, and after an hour or so, the flipper coils are not at all hot to the touch (I don't have a way to take the actual temp, but I would assume something that is 130+ degrees would be hot to the touch). Now, having said that, the ambient temperature in the room it is in right now is probably around 65, so I'm sure that helps.
The temp in my house is 75 year round. In a COVID world, my machine is typically on for 30 minutes. Like you, I don't have a problem. That said, I use to host tournaments, and in that setting, the fans would likely be useful. It's also interesting to see so many folks get the fans, so I guess people want the head room that they would provide for parties, tournaments, whatever.
Quoted from marspinball:Is the third flipper supposed to have an EOS switch?
No.
Quoted from CashMoney:So whats the consensus on the butter cab option?
Those of you who ordered it, do you feel like its worth it?
Those of you who didn't order it, do you feel like you missed out?
It's amazing...and can only fully be appreciated in person. Photos don't do it justice.
If it's going to be in a tight line-up, it's a waste (obviously). Even so, I think it's a great way to make it a true Collectors Edition. I've had some of the best cabinets in the industry...by HEP, Bryan Kelly, BigTime Cabinets, etc. Butter is better than any of these! My son, 25, who visited recently was stunned (and he isn't as discriminating as I am).
I really hope as Spooky evolves, they stick with offering The Butter. Now that I have one, I will never order a Spooky game without it!
Quoted from GrimDog:First time
Mine is #175 and definitely needed a lot of love to play reasonably.
Is yours a recent build? You'd hope that the more recent builds have incorporated some of the experience/wisdom in this thread.
I really wish Spooky would update us on when the flipper bushings will be done/distributed. The sooner it is done, the sooner they can start building/shipping games that don't need flipper surgery.
Quoted from Wzpin:Just trying to get a feeling from everyone - as a new R and M owner - is the thought the code is complete or more to come?
Code seems fairly complete, but I imagine we will see more updates.
Quoted from cooked71:There are no brick shots, only missed ones.
RnM has almost no “conventional Stern” shots. It’s not a fault, it’s a design choice. But if you nail the shots they’re as smooth as butter.
Learn the shots.
In the words of a great......”Play better”! Play better and stop whining.
I don't really know what a "conventional Stern" shot is. The 3 most prolific Stern designers Ritchie/Borg/Elwin all have their own style/schtick.
The left garage shot is the only R&M shot that I haven't experienced on other games. The left ramp is really steep and even though it's quite open, the player doesn't benefit from the openness because of where the ramp is positioned. On my example (which I believe is similar to others), the ramp is installed pretty far to the left...if it were centered with respect to the PF arrow pointing to the ramp and cutout where the ramp screws in to the PF, the ramp would be MUCH easier to hit. The installation on my example has the effect of dramatically narrowing the shot. Wish I could move it to the right a bit, but that isn't possible.
No doubt that Scott designed the game to be a ball buster. The game is awesome and despite having a love/hate with it, I love it MUCH more than I hate it With that in mind, I still think build and flippers idiosyncrasies *on my example* have amplified the difficulty of the game.
My over thinking why this game is so bloody difficult doesn't matter much. As you say, I just need to "Play better and stop whining"
Quoted from guitarded:>>I don't really know what a "conventional Stern" shot is.
Shots that fall on the sweet spots of the flippers. Sterns generally have shots on all of the sweet spots.
R&M has 1, I think.
Meh...makes no sense to me. Unless your profile is missing a bunch of Stern games, I have a bit more experience in this area.
Let's take Elwin's JP2...lot's of challenging, tight shots (tower, inner left loop, right orbit). JP2 shots just feel more honed than R&M shots. As a result, my JP2 play is more consistent than my R&M play. When I'm playing MB's (which is kind of critical to advance with R&M), I just don't feel like the R&M flippers are strong/snappy.
As far as the cabinet, PF, and audio is concerned, R&M is competitive with Stern. In terms of how the game is engineered & plays (even after dialing in), I still feel a difference. I'm not a Stern fanboy and I'm not bashing Spooky...just stating my truth as someone that owns/plays both. Spooky is a relatively new manufacturer compared with Stern and they are clearly making vast improvements and care deeply for their customers. It's all good.
Quoted from guitarded:Maybe try asking the guy who designed the machine?
I've corresponded with Scott on many issues privately...he is always gracious and helpful.
I don't need to ask Scott about what I already know/feel from playing JP2 and R&M.
Quoted from guitarded:Perfect example : Multiball.
You feel that way because the natural Sweet Spot on the Flippers lands a shot. That results in more time for you to control the additional balls.
Shots from the same spot off the flippers on Rick and Morty hit a Post and come right back at you.
By Design.
Wrong again. I don't need you to tell me how I feel! See ya later!
Quoted from Pinstym:I realize you've been into pinball a long time, and you know what you know. You feel what you feel. That's cool. But you're sounding very Jerry about this.
I've also been into this a long time. Since 2003. I've definitely heard designers and podcasters talking about the sweet spot.
I've definitely heard Scott say, and I think it was before the game was even released, that he made the main shots (like ramps) to purposefully NOT be in the sweet spots on the flippers.
Metallica ramps are sweet spot. Combos all day long. R&M, no such thing. My sweet spot trying to hit the right ramp is the post just to the left of the entrance to the right orbit.
This sweet spot stuff wasn't just made up by the guy you poo pooed.
EDIT: I do not disagree with all your flipper problems making it even worse.
I don't know what "sounding very Jerry" means, but I guess you are insulting me? That's ok...I can take it
To be honest, I rarely listen to podcasts with pinball designers, so what folks say about "sweet spots" means little to me.
From my perspective, it's simply about shot difficulty. GEM on TRON is arguably a tough shot. The toughest shots on my R&M is the left garage and left ramp. The right ramp is open/easy (from the left flipper) and the loops are also pretty easy (inner and horseshoe). Assuming the scoop is lowered, it is also an "easy" shot. So, for me, if a shot is fairly easy, it implies I've found the "sweet spot" to make the shot...
Both JP2 and R&M are masterpieces in my mind (and I've owned a lot of games). The main point I was making is the build & engineering that makes up R&M I believe contributes to the difficulty. Since every game is different, I'm talking about MY game.
Quoted from guitarded:You feel like buying a lot of expensive toys makes you some type of expert at what? Buying toys?
I sense some weird jealousy? No...I've played in many Florida and SoCal pinball tournaments. Playing is more important to me than collecting. If I was purely in this for collecting, I'd have many more games. I've downsized considerably over the years, since most games end up boring me.
Quoted from guitarded:Yeah, no.
You just don't get it do you? I am not impressed by your profile.
Your intimation that not owning Sterns makes one inexperienced was a tell.
You followed it up with a second and a third swing. Neither landed...
your dick isn't that big man. You aren't impressing me, that's for sure.
I'd own a Stern if there was one I wanted to play and could not. Since they are on location all over, I see no need to park one in my house.
There may be JP2 or Premium IMDN in my future, but not at near retail pricing on a used machine. And never new from Stern. Not for me.
You are an angry dood. I'm not asking you to be impressed with anything! Just trying to have a sensible conversation. You apparently have an axe to grind...please grind it elsewhere. You've only been on Pinside 1 year with 2,000 posts...real keyboard warrior!
Just noticed something that surprised me...the opto controller boards under the PF seem to run pretty hot. I turned my game on, played one above average game that lasted 10-15 minutes (~60M) then shut the game off and took off the glass (to clean the flipper rubber and PF). When I put my hand on the PF, was really struck by how warm the PF was. Lifted it and the hot spots corresponded to the location of the opto boards. I'm running with the stock Spooky cabinet fan.
I assume this is normal, but since only one game was played, the heat surprised me. If those boards continue to generate heat proportional to play time, I'd be concerned about the temp of the PF.
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:Yep, this was ran through a ton of testing and it perfectly ok! We wanted to run this off the 12v line for this game, which causes extra heat dissipation, but it is so far within tolerance that we decided it is all good. At first, I wanted to eliminate the all the heat, but running a switching circuit to knock down the voltage for the opto transmitters is just not cost effective.
Thanks for the feedback on the opto boards...glad to hear it's within tolerance and not proportional to play time!
A few days ago, I mentioned my left ramp being installed in a less-than-optimal location (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aw-jeez-official-rick-and-morty-club/page/224#post-6156541).
Since I had the glass off, I decided to see if I could improve it (which I was fortunately able to do). I had to get slightly longer screws (7/8")...for some reason, my ramp was fastened with a 1/2" on the right side and 1/4" on the left side. I was able to scoot the ramp forward and to the right, which opens up the shot and comes closer to aligning/centering it with the Meeseeks insert/arrow.
Hoping this will open up the left ramp shot for me...definitely looks more natural. Need to play test to be sure.
IMG_3400 (resized).jpegIMG_3407 (resized).jpegIMG_3403 (resized).jpegIMG_3408 (resized).jpegQuoted from Pinball-Obsessed:The length of screws might be on purpose because mine were the same.
Quoted from arzoo:The shorter screw is necessary because it will protrude through the wood into the top of the subway and stop the ball! This happened to me after I put in a longer screw and I'm like what the hell, why won't the ball eject? Took me a while to figure out what was going on.
Great feedback! It's interesting, with the new ramp location, 1/2" now works fine on the left side (was 1/4"). So I ended up with 1/2" on the left and 7/8" on the right (instead of 1/4" and 1/2"). Need to play test...
Quoted from Zablon:very curious to see how this works. I too noticed it seems like that ramp is too far left. My concern would be that moving it, screws up another shot.
I'm fairly certain there is no way moving the ramp to the right will screw up another shot. Moving the spinner loop ball guide is another story, since it touches the left ramp. Fortunately, when I dialed-in the spinner loop guide, I was really conservative with how much to push it back. If I was more aggressive (as some posts advise), it might have gotten in the way of this minor ramp nudge to the right. But I get your concern in general...it's all connected!
Quoted from razorsedge:https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/aw-jeez-official-rick-and-morty-club/page/173#post-5999424
About 3 months ago I found the left ramp scraping away at my interior art, and I trimmed the ramp for clearance, as well as moved the entry about 5mm to the right. I posted about it, and linked there above.
The left ramp was way too tough to hit before that, besides part of the reason was to give a bit of clearance to the left inside of the cab so it wouldn't keep getting marked up.
The fixing screw washer on the right wood rail for the shooter wireform, was overhanging and scraping the iterior decal as well. That led to the TNA style ramp as well though, with the bounce back up around the orbits issues that I was having.
The ramp adjustment though, for me that was an essential.
Thanks for the link! It's reassuring to hear about other examples with the same problem/solution. Sounds like our motivations were slightly different (mine wasn't scraping the interior art), but I've been doing some testing and the shots to the left ramp are definitely a tad more forgiving. As others have highlighted, it's still a tough ball buster of a game, but the sum of all the little refinements makes it a much smoother experience when you are on your game. I've definitely noticed that I'm able to make more consistent progress as things get dialed in.
Quoted from Pinball-Obsessed:Hmm.... One could even say you’ve essentially made the game easier.
Ha ha just busting your balls like Scott Danesi does every time you press the start button.
Thx...like I need another ball buster
Well, there were already 2 sets of holes on both ramps, so the precision of exactly where the ramp should be installed was already in question Trying to center the ramp wrt the PF arrows just seems kind of standard/obvious. Unfortunately, the right ramp has no hope of being centered...
IMG_3410 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from Calfdemon:From what I heard, Terry stopped selling them because a bunch of people on Facebook were up in arms that they were for sale when they "should have been included in the new games". I'm not on Facebook so no first hand knowledge, but that's what I was told.
My guess is that once the R&M run is complete and no more new games are being built, they might reappear for sale. Just a guess but if Terry pulled them to squash the critisizm of Spooky, the argument that they SHOULD be included in their new games will have expired because there will be no more new games. At that point, it just becomes a mod which in reality, it has been all along.
Luckily, I bought one as soon as they were available before being pulled. Hopefully, they return for anyone that missed out.
I was able to adjust my shooter wireform soon after unboxing my game, so I don't have a dog in this race (as vireland likes to say
That said, what is this..."cancel culture" applied to pinball parts? Sad shit...assuming your story is true. If there is an improved part for R&M, it's a shame it's unavailable. Geez. I'm hopeful this story isn't true and PBL is simply out of the part!
image (resized).jpegQuoted from arzoo:Congrats! Btw, I didn't think "Peace Among Worlds" sticker was included on the coin door with the bill accepter panel?
fyi...mine (#175) doesn't have the "Peace Among Worlds" sticker. Maybe Spooky started putting them on in later builds?
Quoted from Rum-Z:First off, I hate to be the dimple guy, so my apologies in advance, but ... Is this just me and my playfield? With my lack of luck, I wouldn't be surprised.
Highly doubt it's just you! My PF looks great after hundreds of plays, however if you look really closely, in the right light, from an angle, you can see some dimpling (some of them so called "craters").
Quoted from Rum-Z:I might disassemble the playfield and send it off to Kruzman for a clearcoat.
Unfortunately, that wouldn't solve your dimple/crater problem. Ron is a master restorer and has done work for me (on an NOS Paragon PF). Dimples in the wood can't be fixed. Kruzman cleared PF's still dimple! Some dimple haters add PF protectors, which suck IMHO. The other solution is to avoid playing your game, which is also undesirable.
Quoted from Rum-Z:Yeah, but once you get a million dimples all over the playfield, and the top layers of wood are compressed by all those hits, it dimples a lot less if you get it cleared at that point. I have a MM and WH2O playfield that were cleared after 10 years or more of use, and they've still gotten small dimples in them after the clear was applied, but nothing like a new playfield.
Good point, but it's my experience that the older PF's were also composed with harder woods (not just compression). My Stern LOTR (2004) looks better than my Beatles (no joke), and it has over 10,000 more plays! Both were purchased NIB, so I know where they've been.
Quoted from Zablon:Been noticing this too? The only combo I've noticed is the launch orbit/garage. However, there are lots of rules I'm just now figuring out. I played for a week before I realized the meeseeks bonuses/divisors.
Yeah, I'm not up on the subtleties of the rules...keeping the ball in play and making the shots is keeping me very busy!
That's part of what's cool about combos, they are orthogonal to the rules and a great way to reward the player with some points! The 6-way combo I made earlier today definitely deserved some points (it included the "Left ramp to upper loop to garage" mentioned by metallik above).
Quoted from wolv3:Fantastic write up. What's everyone's thoughts on these switches? Are they really needed? Looking forward to finding out when my game ships
Both the write-up and the switches look great, but my stock switches all worked great out-of-the-box. Not needed for #175. When it comes to tweaking a game, I'm a fan of a "less is more" approach. The effort in the write-up looks vastly more complex than bending the ball guide and/or adjusting the stock switches (for games that need it).
On the first game after loading the latest update, this happened during my first multi-ball...balls filling up in the shooter lane. The auto launch mech isn't powerful enough to deal with this, so it's a showstopper that required the glass off and game stopped.
I've played hundreds of games so far (and never encountered this), so either I got really unlucky OR something about this software update has introduced a new bug.
Flipper knockdown is also noticeably worse with this update (for my flippers, at least).
IMG_3430 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from snaroff:On the first game after loading the latest update, this happened during my first multi-ball...balls filling up in the shooter lane. The auto launch mech isn't powerful enough to deal with this, so it's a showstopper that required the glass off and game stopped.
I've played hundreds of games so far (and never encountered this), so either I got really unlucky OR something about this software update has introduced a new bug.
Flipper knockdown is also noticeably worse with this update (for my flippers, at least).
[quoted image]
OK...just did some more testing. Definitely a bad bug with multi-ball mode, where balls just keep coming out (without a ball save). Just happened again. Basically Infinite Multi-ball mode that only ends when the shooter lane fills with balls.
Quoted from RobT:Thanks for posting this. Prevented me from loading the updated code.
No problem...kind of amazed more people haven't loaded the update. I reinstalled the January update and everything went back to normal, which confirms something was foobar with the update.
Quoted from ripple:I had no knockowns before the update ( where the flipper goes all the way down). I did have some sticks before the current update where the flipper would be knocked 1/3 of the way back and stay there till there was another flip. It's like every stick is now a knockdown. I have not had the multiball bug mentioned by snanoff so far.
Interesting you aren't seeing the MB bug. Hmm...I grabbed the bits from the Spooky website today (not the bits Eric posted a couple days ago).
Quoted from gstellenberg:Rewriting the libelous statements above correctly: Games with P-ROC/P3-ROC require EOS switches to be able deal with knockdowns, and they'll need a few additional software commands to close up timing holes.
- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com
This is very encouraging news! I hope you and Eric can powwow and make sure the few lines of code to close up timing holes will be added. Would also be useful to get guidance on the optimal EOS position to avoid knockdown. On other platforms, my goal is to adjust the EOS at the very end of stroke (for maximum strength). On JJP games, this works great. Is this the same on P-ROC/P3-ROC?
One question: The upper flipper on R&M doesn't have an EOS switch and I occasionally get knockdowns on the upper flipper (though not nearly as bad as the lower flippers that deal with the pop bumper and scoop VUK). Does this mean I will need to live with the knockdowns on the upper flipper?
Quoted from epthegeek:Timings for power pulse timing on/off (how the flipper holds) were changed in the latest update based on data Charlie collected with a pressure sensor and IR thermometer. I changed it to what Charlie found to give the best balance between hold strength and heat over time. If you haven’t already, you could up your hold strength to “high” in the settings for slightly higher power; and EOS should be adjusted to close near the end of the stroke.
As for the multiball bug, that may be related to the new code for clearing a ball in the jam opto after a ball is already in play. I hadn’t run into an issue, and none of the beta testers reported anything, so if someone has directions on how to reliably recreate it that would help a lot. Meanwhile I’ll just have to try things.
My hold strength is on "high" and definitely helps (with the January release).
Does it make sense for the power pulse timings to be configurable via settings? (setting the defaults to whatever you folks decide). When I loaded the March update with Charlie's parameters, flipper knockdown was worse than the January update (which implies the parameters are dynamic/variable and/or dependent on the precise EOS signaling?). I realize the proper settings might not be obvious, but it at least gives us some opportunity to fiddle if the defaults @ Spooky don't jive with our local machine environment.
On my machine, the MB bug was trivial to reproduce (seemed to happed both times I entered MB). If there was anything special I did to cause it to happen, it wasn't obvious to me. Hopefully someone else can reproduce it. In theory, the install image could have been bad, but I imagine that is unlikely.
Quoted from epthegeek:The timings are adjustable with the low/medium/high right now, but that’s all you really get. There was a change in the patterning of the on/off in the new release based on Charlie’s testing. I suppose I could add another option to go back to the old timing pattern.
I need “do this and then this and then you will see the issue” directions. Just saying you were able to replicate it doesn’t get me any closer to what caused it. I’ve never seen it do what it did on your game. I don’t know if maybe it’s a switch issue (trough/shooter lane) or it’s repeatable on any game. I will of course try to see if I can figure it out by guessing, but if you could detail it, or shoot a video of creating it, I would appreciate it.
I already reinstalled the January update since the March update wasn't working for me. If no-one else is able to reproduce it, I will reinstall tomorrow. If the bug doesn't resurface, then that would prove it was some kind of install headbutt. Wouldn't be the first time. My JP2 dinosaur was totally foobar after an update and after reinstalling with a fresh SD card, the dinosaur came back to life. Bizarre.
Quoted from epthegeek:The flipper problem isn’t Gerry’s problem, it’s mine. That’s what he was getting at.
It may be a software problem, but Gerry implies the software solution is straightforward...a few lines of code. Based on the little I've learned, it's not the lines of code but finding the right parameters (which sounds arcane). The challenge is making this work for everyone.
Quoted from metallik:Yeah, I adjusted the EOSs to trigger as soon as the flipper started to drop, but then had the stuck flipper problem a fair bit and had to back off the EOS. It sounds like they may have sorted that out and we can soon retighten the EOS adjustments
Quoted from Rum-Z:After a few plays on my recent build (#504), had knock down, then I adjusted my EOS a little closer and had stuck flipper, then I opened the EOS a little more, and stuck flipper went away and some knock down came back. Then I set hold power to "high", and that helped more than anything. Still get a little bit of knock down from a hard scoop fire to the right flipper. December code.
These posts perfectly characterize the persnickety EOS adjustment that contributes to my flipper frustration (with knockdowns and stuck-ups).
Quoted from Nikalou:Haven't had issues with the flippers before (and have had the machine a long time #133) but I just updated and am getting knockdowns from both the pop bumper and scoop. I would like to go back to the old code for the time being, anyone have a download link for it?
Quoted from epthegeek:There's a public update available. Nothing exciting, just trying to fix some things.
You can grab it at https://soldmy.org/pin/rm/ for now, I'm sure spooky will update the game support page soon.
Build 2021.03.02:
- Changed: A flipper tweak suggested by Gerry Stellenberg to prevent unintended flipper hold.
- Changed: Flipper hold control adjusted based on testing data from Charlie.
gstellenberg Unfortunately, the latest flipper tweak appears to be a regression. Whatever small amount of code PROC seems to "need" to provide flawless flips is eluding us. Hope you/Eric/Charlie/etc. can figure this out!
Quoted from epthegeek:As for the multiball bug, that may be related to the new code for clearing a ball in the jam opto after a ball is already in play. I hadn’t run into an issue, and none of the beta testers reported anything, so if someone has directions on how to reliably recreate it that would help a lot. Meanwhile I’ll just have to try things.
Hey Eric, I re-downloaded/installed the latest bits from the Spooky website and can't reproduce the multi-ball bug. Could be a flakey download/install? One note: my trough eject isn't the default value. If somehow the your related code change was dependent on the default value, that could explain it (though I've tested both values and can't get it to fail now). Geez I'll keep running on the latest code since the game is now functional...
IMG_3432 (resized).jpegQuoted from gac:Where can you find the 1/5/21 code update if you wanted to go back to it?
My 1/5/21 update was still in my "Downloads" folder (on a Mac). Unless you go out of your way to delete it, I would imagine it might still be on your computer.
Quoted from Zablon:SpookyCharlie
Can you post clear photos of how your EoS are adjusted?
I had the hood open, so I figured I'd take a photo of where my EOS switches are adjusted.
IMG_3436 (resized).jpegQuoted from epthegeek:The most important thing about the EOS adjustment for R&M is how quickly it 'opens' as the flipper starts to come down. What the individual blades look like isn't that important, although less flexing is good for the life of the switch blades in general on any switch.
I've never had to think deeply about this, but they seem related. That is, I typically only bend the outer blade (habit...nothing more). Even though this puts more wear on the inner blade, it also creates more resistance, which would lead to it opening more quickly (which you are saying is important). yes/no? I'm happy to adjust these blades to Spooky perfection...no religion here on what I do on other pinball platforms
Quoted from rotordave:Coil would need to work harder to push them too. (More heat over time)
I would never have them that far apart.
The other thing to consider is you want the face of the switch contacts to be flush together when switch blades contact. Not just the sides touching. The more contact area the better (particularly relevant on older pins with higher voltage in the blades)rd
Thanks for the advice. Look better? I don't notice a difference in flipper action, but if it results in slightly cooler coils and less wear on the switch, then it's a win.
IMG_3438 (resized).jpegQuoted from PinMonk:I can't recall ever having a flipper knockdown on a Spike game.
I've owned Sterns since 2004 and I've never had a flipper knockdown on any Stern. My TRON's (SAM IIRC) have the translucent rubber disk that flings the ball faster than any game I've ever owned. Really crazy velocity...much faster than the R&M VUK or pop bumper. Flippers have no problem when hit. This is a game that is now a decade old. In an ideal world, the flipper tech would get better, not worse! Especially in a booming pinball world like the one we live in. Maybe a few bucks needs to be thrown into the BOM or R&D bucket. If dual wound coils run cooler, well...
Quoted from metallik:I disagree that collapse should be considered "normal" in any condition.
Couldn't agree more...especially considering the VUK and Pop bumper mechs in R&M are quite old school!
Quoted from cooked71:That reminds me, I need to buy the ramp cover for that. Was playing on the weekend and the Ball was flying off that ramp at least once per game. Still don’t understand why that cover isn’t installed from the factory on new builds - has been an identified issue for months.
Man, the differences in how these games play is really striking. I don't believe I've ever had a ball fly off that ramp! Is it flipper power? Ramp flap sticking up? Ramp rivet in ball path? I realize every game is unique, but the dynamic range complicates life for us Morty's (not to mention Spooky
Quoted from razorsedge:It seems to just be a symptom of how much extra power different games are running, combined with variability in how even or smooth the ball path is. If a game is not as smooth as another, then it's natural to just jack the power up to more to make up for the greater snags or speed losses the ball is experiencing. But that just leads to bouncing and air.
My game running 27 on the flippers and flies up ramps smoothly with plenty to spare, and never had a ball fly from a ramp yet. I've been up to 32 though and still not had any ramp flyaways. But 32 is way too overpowered on the machine I have here. I went to 37 and had a ramp fly-off, but the ball had so much energy I only played one ball because it was so much velocity overkill it was going to obviously be damaging. Game definitely isn't in need of a cover there at all, not in my case anyway. Not to say it wouldn't be a reasonable idea perhaps, but the ramp flyoffs seem to be a symptom of some ball path inconsistency. As in perhaps not really normal.
Good point...no doubt coil settings have an impact. My lower left is set to 35 and my lower right is set to 45. If the game gets over 30 minutes of continuous play, the left ramp gets harder to make (which is why I have it set to 45). To be honest, I don't feel a big difference between 35 and 45, so maybe the high setting is counter productive (since it may generate more heat?). Don't know. Wouldn't it be cool to have a Morty visible heat sensor on those flippers?
Quoted from razorsedge:Wow I couldn't imagine having flipper powers set that high.
And I monitor my AC voltage, which is always in spec. R&M is the only game plugged into this electrical outlet/zone.
IMG_3445 (resized).jpegQuoted from ThePinballCo-op:Snappy, you say?
The thing I love the most about Sterns are the flippers, hands down. They snap so nicely. Is it possible that we might see similar results with R&M flippers in the next code update?
I don't believe so...highly unlikely the flipper setup on R&M will ever have a Stern flipper feel. The mechs/electronics are wildly different. To be honest, I just want the flippers to work reliably/snappy for 60-90 minutes of continuous usage. I realize the bar for operators is different.
I've been playing with the Beta for a couple days now. The lower flipper knock-down & stuck-up issues have been improved dramatically. I haven't seen one knock-down/stuck-up lower flipper! Nice job @epthegeek!
I still had some very wonky upper flipper behavior (stuck-up, no-fire) that happened after 20 minutes of continuous play and disappeared as fast as it appeared. Since the upper flipper doesn't have an EOS switch and is excluded from the changes Eric is focused on, this behavior likely has nothing to do with the Beta per se. There is some chance there is something to tweak mechanically, however the upper flipper returned to normal without any mechanical changes.
So...at this point, my biggest concern is after 20-30 minutes of continuous play, my flippers totally lose their snap. The left ramp becomes almost impossible to hit. If the implementation changes that fix the knock-down/stuck-up problems result in much hotter coils, then it's a tough pill to swallow. Note that I've played several hundred games prior to these changes and routinely play for 20-30 minutes at a time without much flipper degradation.
To help characterize what I'm feeling after 20 minutes, PinMonk is going to help me rig my 3 flippers with heat sensors. I will probe the flippers every 5 minutes so I can give Eric/Spooky the data that hopefully corresponds to what I'm seeing/feeling.
A more effective approach is to understand the heat requirements for the P-ROC implementation tweaks. Even if my heat measurements help explain why my flippers are fading after 20-30 minutes, it doesn't help suggest a more efficient, cooler running implementation. @gstellenberg?
Quoted from gstellenberg:The "P-ROC implementation tweaks" are just dealing with re-flips and state control relative to the EOS. They have nothing to do with the single-wound coil heat profiles due to various PWM frequencies. So no matter what your measurements are, they won't suggest doing something different relative to the EOS. They could just impact how strongly the coils are pulsed for hold strength, which is purely a software choice.
- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com
Thanks, Gerry. Really appreciate your perspective!
I found this interesting link that helped me understand some of the high level tradeoffs (https://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Controlling_Flippers).
Also found an interesting discussion on the heat implications of single wound coils from 2 years ago with epthegeek (below). Since R&M uses WMS flippers (which had dual wound coils), it's just odd that R&M doesn't have dual wound coils considering the heat being generated. If the software is able to implement some clever heuristics to work around the absence of a hold winding, then great. I don't have enough experience with this to know if that's possible. Stern clearly makes it work (with single wound coils), but they also have custom controller boards with magic that might help.
One question: Do most of your P-ROC clients use dual-wound coils?
Quoted from epthegeek:Any game with single wound coils that 'hold' the flipper with a rapid pulse, rather than using a lower power 'hold' coil like WMS does will heat up if you hold the flippers a lot, won't it?
Quoted from barakandl:Seems like games with this setup are the only one I have seen coils heat up to the point is causes a flipper strength problem.
My baywatch had an issue with coils heating up and causing them lose power. I put a couple of 12v fans taken from old computer boxes and have them blowing on the flipper coils. It really does help with the flipper power giving out after many games in a row.
Quoted from epthegeek:Here's the thing; I'm not an engineer. Electrical or otherwise. I'm just a guy writing game code and doing my best. I didn't make the coil decision, I don't know what the contributing factors were to that decision. But it should be able to be made to do the job just fine.
...
There is no magic in engineering. Just math and frustration.
Couldn't agree more (no magic in engineering), and I'm trying to be helpful (not critical). I'm putting my time/effort where my mouth is (by helping test the Beta and provide feedback which you encouraged in a private message). I can definitely take my feedback private! (or stop providing it entirely).
All I'm doing is reporting what I'm seeing. I've never been this involved in trying to get a game to play the way I expect...partly because all the other games I've owned have had stronger, more consistent flipper feel and partly because I love this game more than all the games that came before it My first Spooky pin.
I'm a retired software engineer myself and have significant background in compiler construction, language design/implementation and operating system development. I was responsible for all of Apple's software development tools for many years. Trust me, I sympathize with the limits imposed by hardware and how software can be complicated as a result. I get it! I lived it for 25 years.
With PinMonk help, I will get you folks data on the heat being generated by my game. If, at the end of the day, I need to install
PinMonk fans to get my game to play for 30-60 minutes without degrading, then that's what I guess I will have will do! I'd prefer not installing the fans and not bumping into heat issues after only 30-60 minutes, but that ball is in Spooky's court.
Quoted from Zablon:I haven't messed with any power settings, and still have issues. I will say---I do not seem to have heat/fade issues..but I rarely play a game more than an hour.
My lower flippers were both set to 35 when I was experiencing the flipper fade. I'm lowering them to 30 (the default).
This is one of the obvious complications of testing code with "knobs"...testing all permutations is obviously more complex.
Quoted from Cheeks:I know Stern is being used as the benchmark here, and maybe rightly so. They are not having any knockdown issues that I'm aware of. But I've recently been getting into newer Stern games, and I'm in more than one game club where flipper fade, heat issues, and vireland's fans are regular topics. So why Spooky is still figuring out how to perfect the flippers using the P-ROC system, even Stern's "perfect" flipper system is having significant flipper fade issues. Just sayin.
That's not my experience. I have no flipper fade (or other gotcha's) on my Sterns. Not saying Stern's don't/can't have this, but I've never experienced it.
Quoted from Cheeks:You obviously don't have Stranger Things. The TK lock is unhittable after 30+ minutes and almost everyone in the thread experiences it.
Correct...no experience with Stranger Things. The most recent Stern that gets played a ton is Jurassic Park, and it shoots strong. No fade that I can discern.
Quoted from bkerins:Combos score points and have a display effect and sound effect ... they just don't have as much visibility because there is a lot else going on. Look for the Rickombo ... left ramp to upper loop to garage
Thanks for response, Bowen...very useful (along with epthegeeks response). I just noticed the "Rickombo" on the screen!...really subtle but sweet
Seems like NOOBOMBO/RICKOMBO/MORTOMBO callouts might be a nice touch for the finishers.
Another idea is to tally the combo points either before or after tallying the Megaseed points. Would be useful to know how many points are being awarded for combos.
Not saying combos need huge visibility (given everything else going on), but a little more visibility would help bring attention to the cool support that appears to already be in the code! All this is (good) news to me...had no idea.
Quoted from gstellenberg:If you think there's an issue with your R&M flippers, talk to Spooky. They know the most about the flippers, coils, wiring, etc in their machines, and they'll consult with us if necessary.
- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com
Yep. Flippers are such a complex area, since mechanical issues will effect the electrical issues & performance.
For example, my left flipper binds ever so slightly, which *could* effect power/heat (fortunately, it doesn't effect gameplay at all, since the power requirements aren't as intense as the right flipper, which deals with the left ramp shot). If you look closely at the photo below, the left flipper is at a very slight angle (not 100% parallel with the PF). Both bushings on my lower flippers are prototype lowered bushings provided by Spooky months ago (not filed by me). I've been anxiously awaiting the final/level bushings since there is a chance it will fix this problem and solve the minor flipper binding that is occurring.
IMG_3437 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from jguzik420:This just happened during 2nd stage of scary Terry and a multiball start, game froze when I hit a ball in the scoop. TV and everything..
Not sure if for the second hour, but it just stopped, leaving the ball in the scoop..Couldn't hit the buttons in the menu. Turned off the game and back on, shot the ball outta the scoop. And got right back into it. Anyone else experience this? First time I have. First time the game froze after 600some odd games..
Edit: possibly started a meeseeks mania as well. I do remember hearing boxes open I believe..
[quoted image]
Yes, I've seen this a couple times (where the ball is in the scoop and the game freezes). Like you, I rebooted and things went back to normal. Not unique to your game!
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