Nice job tracking that down. Hopefully there's some room for adjustment? I took a look at mine and it is definitely close.

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Your photo shows me what's different. Look how your display has the acrylic base removed/missing from the flipper screws. Compare it with mine...see the difference? What # is yours?

You're right. Mine is #89.

Yep, since your digital display board is different than mine (to apparently accommodate the flipper screws), I'm waiting for Spooky to advise me on this.

My gut says neither the display or the flipper can be moved. Don't know if they modify the digital display board during build or they have different revisions? My game is #175.

Thanks goodness this is a hobby for me (and I enjoy hunting these bugs). If I were just a "Rick and Morty" fan with no pinball chops, life with this game would be more discouraging. Fortunately, I still love it. As long as Spooky folks continue to support me, all is good...

Pinside to the rescue yet again.

I've always maintained that the pinball owner hobby is similar to owning a British motorcycle. There is a saying "Triumph - How to turn a motorcycle enthusiast into a mechanic."
Me, i owned BSAs, but may as well be the same thing.

I seemed to have eliminated my left ramp woes and thought I'd share in case anyone is in a similar spot. After comparing pics of others' flipper alignment, I lowered my right flipper a bit. It was just a bit higher than the left and was causing my shots to mostly hit the metal flap on the right side of the left ramp entrance. I tested by taking the glass off and firing cradled shots from the right flipper many times.

Now, my flippers both sit in relatively symmetrical positions, and that left ramp is a much more possible shot. I can finally make it from a trapped position and damn, it feels good to have it dialed in. The best part is I didn't have to up the flipper power at all, it's still on the default 30. It was a very minute change in where the flipper was sitting, but I think with how tight the left ramp shot is, it makes a big difference.

Taking the trough off was only mildy frustrating due to my screw driver having a fat handle and not fitting in tight spaces well, but after that, wrenching the bolt to loosen and tighten the thing holding the flipper was easy.

I also installed Pinmonk's coil coolers today, and they are awesome! I highly recommend them to anyone who likes to play longer sessions. They are simple to install and offer surprising cooling for the compact size of the fans. I put the fuzzy tape from pinball life on the glass and turned up the bass! Only thing rattling I can hear is the hanging quarter return doors, so I just shoved a microfiber towel in for now til I put little sticker pad things in. My machine is really rocking now!

I think you should be able to remove the flipper mech and then drop the display board. If you were able to grind off about 1/8” or 1/4” inch of the acrylic from the display board where it touches, that would probably solve the issue. A dremel tool or file would do the trick...

I'm glad to hear that you appear to have located the issue. I was thinking about you this afternoon when I was playing my R&M and was paying more attention to my left ramp shots...I make them with such ease, the ball sometimes can really go flying up and around to the upper flipper at speed.

On another issue, when I hit the right orbit shot to the garage, the ball sometimes goes so fast through there that it skips right over the hole and comes back down. I'm sure that this happens to everyone to one degree or another, but it really seems to happen more often than I think it should. Maybe 20% of the time.

Is there anything that can be done about this? Seems like the options to fix this would be pretty limited.

Knock down your left flipper power a few ticks?

My problem appears to have been the connector was loose for the top left opto in the ship/lock. Reseated and played around 2 hours issue free tonight.

Love this game.

This has also happened to me but only a couple times. I am at factory flipper settings. Just figured it was a fluke?

Just a thought... plastic spacer isn't wrong way up? . It looks to be sitting on the spacer not on the board?.

Is the recess in the mounting spacer found on another corner perhaps??

Mine has cutout for flipper base there as well, game was built in August.

December 6th - Received 435’s option sheet and was returned same day. Shaking with excitement, waiting to hear back so I can pay the final invoice!

Congrats to the Spooky team, nearly to 500 even with covid. Is it too soon to start the next game speculation?

Anyway Merry Christmas to all at Spooky.

Message from the Freeeek Kingdom.

Going by this, less than 300 to go for mine Didn't I see somewhere that someone created a tracker for the number they might be on? I also think I read that some of the higher numbers were all ready made that they shipped outside the US? I could be wrong (probably am), so they may be over 500 made to date...?

I haven't heard back from Luke yet (must be busy), but your photo gave me enough info to understand the fix (which apparently Spooky did on your game, since you haven't modified this).

I just clipped off the part of the plastic display riser that was getting in the way of the flipper base. Now the flipper mechanism sits flush

Unfortunately, I can't report a night/day difference in power at the moment. Seems about 10-20% stronger? Hard to know until I do more testing.

Also unfortunately, now that it's flush, I still notice a significant difference in the height of the flippers. Notice the significant difference with my Avengers flippers. The other *really odd* difference (with all my other games) is now high the RAM flippers sit! On all my other games, the sweet spot of the ball hits the center of the flipper rubber (what you'd expect). On my RAM, the sweet spot of the ball hits the lowermost part of the flipper rubber. This might explain why the Spooky flippers feel so odd to me...the height just seems wrong! See photos for detail on everything I'm talking about.

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Thats great that you were able to resolve the issue with the base not sitting flush. I took a look at my flippers and they definitely sit a bit higher than my Stern games. I wonder if this could be resolved by using a different bushing? I haven't noticed any issues in my game with it sitting higher. If its hitting higher in the ball that would likely help with preventing airballs but may sacrifice a small bit of power since its hitting higher on the ball? I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has thoughts on this.

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It's more than a bit if you look closely at the photos I posted. It's quite significant...on my machine, at least. Can you snap a photo of where the ball hits on your flipper? Looks a bit lower than mine, but it's hard to tell.

It's also relevant to note that where the ball gets struck statically is different than where it gets struck when you fire the coil. That's why it's important to provide that 1/8" gap to give the flipper room to move (and not bind). So...if the lower part of the rubber is striking the ball statically, it could be 1/8" lower when the flipper is actually fired.

Intuitively, it just seems important for the sweet spot of the flipper/rubber to hit the sweet spot of the ball to get the most power/accuracy...no?

swap the bushings is my honest opinion.

Ball should hit square on the sweet spot. Too high or too low is less than optimal.
I also find that too high causes more torsional friction capability.

Well you should be able to loosen the flipper bats under the PF and adjust the height by lowering or raising them. They should fully down and then with a credit card's width of gap left between the bottom of the flipper and the top of the bushing.

I would start there, they might just be set a little high currently.

Right after seeing your bushings post 3 days ago, I emailed Scott/Terry @ PBL (before noticing the build botch I've posted about). Scott said the bushing are in spec with the original Williams flipper mechs.

I totally agree with you...ball should hit square on the sweet spot!! So...what bushings do I need to make this happen? Do you have a link?

That doesn't make sense. The flipper bushings are simply too high. If they are too high, it's impossible to lower the flippers.

I must be misunderstanding the issue. I thought the gap between the flipper and playfield could be adjusted, isn’t there even a tool for this...

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Difference in PF thickness between WMS and Spooky?

You are misunderstanding the issue. Do you have experience rebuilding (or working on) flippers. If not, then it's not surprising you are misunderstanding.

The gap can certainly be adjusted, however the flipper rests on the bushing, which is the absolute low point for the flipper.

this is a good call. After looking at his pictures again, his bats are sitting proud over the top of the bushing.
That is a good first step and see.

I personally dont like the bushing height on a bunch of games that have come out recently. I think something changed slightly at the main place that makes the bushings. They are for sure in spec, but slightly lower is better.

I unfortunately dont know the exact ones to order as I keep a stock of like 6 different bushings and just eyeball it/ compare to what I pull out of a game.

likely some difference is my guess of root cause.

Hence why these are in spec but slightly taller on pf side

My flippers are resting on the bushing. Don't know what you are seeing.

No need to be testy. *If* the flippers are already resting on the top of the bushing, then yes, obviously they can't be lowered further. That is an assumption at this point.

On my game, I adjusted the flippers as soon as I saw the odd flipper angle they had set them at at the factory and made sure they had plenty of "slack" vertically when I tightened them down. I have no problem with the left ramp shot.

looks to be sitting high/ over top of bushing?

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snaroff is right. The bushings do sit too high. I tried to lower my flippers also and was not able to. Mine look exactly like his pics.

Sorry, can't be lowered any more (and has the 1/8) recommended gap when I pull up on the flipper.

I wasn't being "testy". jonesjb *asked* if he was misunderstanding the issue and I said he was. I'm trying to help by putting this info out here. I can take it all private if you'd prefer (now that was testy

Exactly. I don't have my BW machines at this location, but I just checked my JJP/DI (which I believe uses the same flippers as Spooky?). The PF is indeed 1/8" thicker than my RAM PF (and the flipper strikes the ball in the proper location).

At this point, it's clear to me that Spooky (or PBL) simply needs to advise us on what bushings would lower the flipper 1/8". The flippers just aren't hitting the ball optimally...I'm convinced of this.

This would also explain why the flipper rubbers get destroyed so easily - the ball is only hitting the lower edge of the rubber.

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Can washers be installed below the playfield in-between the entire flipper and coil metal bracket they are attached to? To pull the entire assembly away or down? To bring the flippers closer to the playfield?

washers can vary in thickness and may be hard to find some that fit. An acrylic shim may work better to make up for the 1/8".
But likely needs to be laser cut.

The flipper bushing is screwed directly to the bottom of the pf (it's not part of the flipper mech). Maybe could add washers, but that seems janky.

they could, but much easier to just replace the bushing

????

Flipper bushing is part of the flipper mech... Never seen one ever screwed to pf. It is integral to the whole mech.

Just loose the flipper bat, drop the whole mech, and rebuld the flipper with a new (shorter) height bushing.

This is like a 20 min job for a novice IME

My bad, you are correct. Maybe I'm thinking of older EMs?

Exactly...which doesn't happen on any of my other games.

I've talked to folks about this and it's problematic. I think the ball needs to be in Spooky's "court" to advise on this issue. Adhoc solutions for this part of the game (which get's pounded) isn't something I'm going to fiddle with.

In any case, this "flipper-bushing gate" issue isn't the reason the original poster can't make his left ramp consistently. I have no issues on my game and i have the same bushings as everybody else.

Agree, and knock on wood. 2 hours playing last night and making ramp shots was no issue. Factory settings on flipper power.

Buy a set of replacement bushings and take some sandpaper to the top (Portion that sits above the PF).

Should be able to drop your flippers as low as you want in under 5 minutes. 2 if you have a belt/table sander.

Good News re. #458 : Options are IN!

Not sure I totally agree, I would think the combination of a difficult shot off the flipper tip and only using the lower edge of the rubber could in some cases make the shot much harder imo.

I personally think that the game is good as-is and they wont be (nor should need to) change anything.
Like many things in the owners thread, they get blown up when reality is that these are personal adjustments to improve on an already great game.

If you want to tune it in... just rebuild your flippers and change your bushing.
As Scott noted, the bushings are in spec.

Simple fix... lower the flipper rubber on your bat slightly to get a more square hit on the sweet spot of the ball.

Yep. In fact, from "day 1", I've thought the flippers have felt odd. Now that I see where the ball is being hit, I'm not surprised. I'm convinced that it's important for the sweet spot of the bat/rubber to hit the sweet spot of the ball. Striking the ball at the lower tip of the rubber just can't lead to better ball control/placement. It's not just about power.

JJP uses the same flipper mech I believe. Here is an A/B between RAM and DI. As I mentioned above, it's because the DI PF is 1/8" thicker than the RAM PF.

You are pretty inconsistent, since 3 days ago you told people to swap out the bushing if they were having flipper issues.
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Take the bushings out and sand/trim them down to your preferred height.

Problem solved in less time than it takes to photograph pics of your other machines.

So incredibly false...taking off flipper bushings is much more work than taking a photo of a flipper/ball.

If you don't know that, you've never done it. Or...you just like being cute.

I can have the flipper bats out of a machine with the glass off of it before you can find a place to set your glass down from your second machine.

6 Screws and I am running the bushings on my table sander in under a minute.

...all while you are trying not to fumble your phone/camera so you can take a picture of you holding a ball in front of your flipper bat.

Because you are apparently too stupid to set it in place (try some BlueTack, or set it inside a small washer) for a photograph that you can post online to accompany your whinging bitchfest.

I gave you a solution. Either fix it or don't. Buy stop whining.

Rule #1 - for everyone, be nice. It's Christmas, be helpful, positive and not bitchy. I love this thread, good helpful ideas and comradery is soooo much better

Santa is watching!