(Topic ID: 27910)

Avoiding Decal Wrinkling


By rommy

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 50 posts
  • 30 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by JoeJet
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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    #1 7 years ago

    Does anyone make a cut around the leg to avoid decal wrinkling? Please post pics if so. Anyone think this is a terrible way to avoid wrinkling? Or has anyone tried it and found it does not work?

    #2 7 years ago

    That's exactly what Stern does now (starting with AC/DC) and it seems to be working pretty good and looks fine as the cut is completely covered by the legs. photo_(1).jpeg

    #3 7 years ago

    plus these are on there which helps a great deal

    http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=2711

    #4 7 years ago

    A cut of the decals around the edge of the legs by itself will not fix the problem. You'll either be able to see the cut (if it's outside the edge of the legs) or you'll still have contact area between the legs and decals. I've even tried the felt protectors and still get some minor wrinkling on my MB. The combination of the Stern metal bracket and cutting the decals seems like the perfect solution, though I can't say so from personal experience since I don't yet own a machine with the leg brackets.

    #5 7 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    though I can't say so from personal experience since I don't yet own a machine with the leg brackets.

    Soon my friend, very soon

    #6 7 years ago

    +1 to what herg has stated

    based on what stern has done with the ad/dc machine, anyone doing a restore can purchase these same leg protectors from pinballlife.com or an authorized stern dealer.

    the metal protectors are attached via a pair of wood screws to the cabinet and are thin and small enough that they are hidden when the actual leg is attached.

    scoring the decal where the protector ends (you'll want to slide the protector down so that you can continue the cut on the decal all the way to the bottom of the cabinet) before attaching the metal protector with the wood screws. afterwards, when the legs are attached, they are wider and extend past the part where you would see the metal protectors and the score line on the decal

    #7 7 years ago

    Man do I wish they'd had these in place for TFLE! My poor decals are all tore up.

    #8 7 years ago

    Going through a cabinet restore now. From all the research I did and talking to people who went through this. The felt cabinet protectors are the only ones that prevent damage. The metal or plastic pincab protectors work well covering up damage but will not prevent it. The felt should prevent damage from taking place. Also I know when you apply decals yourself you need to wait a while before attaching legs and other hardware to make sure the decal adheres correctly.

    #9 7 years ago

    Why does this happen? Is it because of the constant nudging?

    #10 7 years ago
    Quoted from rommy:

    Does anyone make a cut around the leg to avoid decal wrinkling? Please post pics if so. Anyone think this is a terrible way to avoid wrinkling? Or has anyone tried it and found it does not work?

    That's similar to what HEP does. Only after the cut is fade he puts the rubber/foam type protector on. Then uses cloth over that. The pressure point isn't at the edge of the legs. It's actually about 1/4 inside the outside edge of the legs.

    #11 7 years ago
    Quoted from Bischt:

    Going through a cabinet restore now. From all the research I did and talking to people who went through this. The felt cabinet protectors are the only ones that prevent damage. The metal or plastic pincab protectors work well covering up damage but will not prevent it. The felt should prevent damage from taking place. Also I know when you apply decals yourself you need to wait a while before attaching legs and other hardware to make sure the decal adheres correctly.

    the metal ones keep the legs off of the wood.. thus preventing damage as well.

    #12 7 years ago
    Quoted from Bischt:

    The felt should prevent damage from taking place.

    From my experience, I got wrinkling with the felt protectors from PBL in place. Granted, these were are already wrinkled, and I straightened them out, then installed the felt, but I still wouldn't trust them.

    #13 7 years ago

    What everyone seems to miss is the importance of installing the leg. The key is to push up on the leg when tightening the bolts. If you let them hang, then tighten, the weight of the pin will cause it to settle which causes the wrinkling. Install the bolts finger tight and see how much play there is up and down. There's lots. This goes for any game, new, used, decalled, etc. How many games have you seen with issues around the legs? I've seen tons.

    You also want to keep the leg edge away from the cabinet, which is what the felt or rubber is for.

    I had a CC I restored and installed felt protectors, had it for years and never had an issue. I sold it to a guy who then sold it to someone else who sent me pictures of the cabinet, which had issues around the legs. I'd say for a fact, the legs weren't installed correctly. It was a shame.

    #14 7 years ago
    Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

    The key is to push up on the leg when tightening the bolts.

    While I do agree that this is helpful, with the new cabinet decals that Stern is using about the only fool proof way to avoid wrinkling is w/ the metal cabinet protectors.

    #15 7 years ago
    Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

    What everyone seems to miss is the importance of installing the leg. The key is to push up on the leg when tightening the bolts. If you let them hang, then tighten, the weight of the pin will cause it to settle which causes the wrinkling. Install the bolts finger tight and see how much play there is up and down. There's lots. This goes for any game, new, used, decalled, etc. How many games have you seen with issues around the legs? I've seen tons.
    You also want to keep the leg edge away from the cabinet, which is what the felt or rubber is for.
    I had a CC I restored and installed felt protectors, had it for years and never had an issue. I sold it to a guy who then sold it to someone else who sent me pictures of the cabinet, which had issues around the legs. I'd say for a fact, the legs weren't installed correctly. It was a shame.

    This is a really good tip for everyone. Good post!

    Dave.

    #16 7 years ago
    Quoted from Benaar:

    While I do agree that this is helpful, with the new cabinet decals that Stern is using about the only fool proof way to avoid wrinkling is w/ the metal cabinet protectors.

    I love what Stern is doing with the metal plate. There should be no issues using those.

    #17 7 years ago

    Can those plates be put on other pins?

    #18 7 years ago
    Quoted from johnwartjr:

    Can those plates be put on other pins?

    I'm certainly going to look into it when I see Terry this weekend, John. I would think you could, but you'd want to trim the decal off where the plate goes. Looks like a perfect solution.

    #19 7 years ago

    On my ACDC premium, I have no wrinkling around the legs for sure. Love those plates. I may get a set for my Simpsons which has had protection from day one also. I do have some wrinkling near the edge of the side rail. I smack the game alot, but did not inspect the cab with a magnifying glass when I got it. Don't know if I caused it or it was like that from the factory. I took the side rail off and used a hair dryer to warm the wrinkles up and got them almost completely gone. Just a couple tiny bubbles left.

    #20 7 years ago

    Shame they didn't keep using paint really.

    #21 7 years ago

    A warning to all, do NOT use Pincab protectors on decal'd cabinets. They will leave a noticeable impression on the decal. Unless you're planning never to take the Pincabs off I'd strongly suggest some other method of protection (I use felt). I learned the hard way with my CFTBL. Fortunately the day I installed the Pincabs and legs someone warning me on Pinside and I quickly removed them - it took a week or two but the lines disappeared. Lucky.

    1 week later
    #22 7 years ago

    Once there is some minor damage done though will the pincab protectors hold it or will it get worse each time you take the legs off? I think I'm going to look into the felt to replace the pincabs on my Twilight Zone.

    #23 7 years ago
    Quoted from johnwartjr:

    Can those plates be put on other pins?

    Yes John; found out from Terry the bolt spacing is identically to WPC--and we're therefore clear to retrofit on B/W.

    Can't believe no-one thought of this earlier (it seems so obvious now).

    Kudos to Stern on this innovation.

    #24 7 years ago

    The Stern style metal plates are the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'm Stenciling an EM cabinet this weekend and it will get a nice new set of plates from PBL. Same goes for my freshly stenciled Paragon...

    #25 7 years ago

    The biggest issue that I see is in the quality of the adhesive on the decals. Lots of older cabinet decals had crappy adhesive and it is virtually impossible to get the damn things to stay in place no matter what method is used. I have done a few cabinets with the new Next Gen decals and those things have great adhesion. I have had no movement with them. Of course I do make sure and jam the leg up to its top position before tightening the bolts as Bryan stated.

    #26 7 years ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    The Stern style metal plates are the greatest thing since sliced bread. I'm Stenciling an EM cabinet this weekend and it will get a nice new set of plates from PBL. Same goes for my freshly stenciled Paragon...

    The decal is also cut away which prevents the wrinkling. If the metal was directly on the decal it would wrinkle.

    #27 7 years ago
    Quoted from pinster68:

    A warning to all, do NOT use Pincab protectors on decal'd cabinets. They will leave a noticeable impression on the decal. Unless you're planning never to take the Pincabs off I'd strongly suggest some other method of protection (I use felt). I learned the hard way with my CFTBL. Fortunately the day I installed the Pincabs and legs someone warning me on Pinside and I quickly removed them - it took a week or two but the lines disappeared. Lucky.

    Same thing happened to me except when I got my Creature it had the pincab protectors on it and the cabnet has wrinkles around the protectors, so no covering them now. Since then every time I get a pin with the pincab protecters I toss them in the junk box. The felt protectors work great, but I have to admit after buying a few sets, I got cheap and went to a fabric store and bought my own felt and made my own protectors using an orginal as a pattern.

    #28 7 years ago
    Quoted from Benaar:

    Man do I wish they'd had these in place for TFLE! My poor decals are all tore up. []

    I'm thinking exactly the same thing!! It's all that nudging that does it! They were fine when I put the legs on, but now they're bulging everywhere!! I'm gonna have to take the legs off and sort it out with some decent protectors and try an re-positrion the bulging decals back to the cab...

    #29 7 years ago
    Quoted from Kevin_LHeureux:

    The biggest issue that I see is in the quality of the adhesive on the decals. Lots of older cabinet decals had crappy adhesive and it is virtually impossible to get the damn things to stay in place no matter what method is used. I have done a few cabinets with the new Next Gen decals and those things have great adhesion. I have had no movement with them. Of course I do make sure and jam the leg up to its top position before tightening the bolts as Bryan stated.

    This is spot on. I’ve never had any issues with the new Next Gen decals.

    #30 7 years ago

    Man do I wish they'd had these in place for TFLE! My poor decals are all tore up.

    I had pincabs on my TFLE for exactly a day, then put felt the next day. The pincabs left a noticeable impression. I have had no wrinkling at all with the felt but I did buy a set of metal protectors from Pinball Life that I am going to install just in case.

    I've attached a picture of what Pincabs do to Stern decals.

    DSC_4865.JPG

    #31 7 years ago
    Quoted from metahugh:

    I've attached a picture of what Pincabs do to Stern decals.

    I should add a pic of what no pincabs do on the same game as a fair comparison
    Maybe tomorrow if I remember to take a pic tonight...

    #32 7 years ago

    As promised, here's a pic of what 'no pincabs' did to my TF cab... needless to say, I wish I'd gone the pincabs route... of course the Pinball Life metal protectors would have been the better choice...

    The pink 'washers' by the way are my way of trying to protect the custom paint on the legs... they're just compressed paper type plumbing washers... as you can see, one seems to have suffered a bit and has probably reduced the tension in the bolt... PTFE would probably be a better choice...

    TF_leg.jpg TF_leg2.jpg

    #33 7 years ago
    Quoted from pinballslave:

    As promised, here's a pic of what 'no pincabs' did to my TF cab... needless to say, I wish I'd gone the pincabs route... of course the Pinball Life metal protectors would have been the better choice...
    The pink 'washers' by the way are my way of trying to protect the custom paint on the legs... they're just compressed paper type plumbing washers... as you can see, one seems to have suffered a bit and has probably reduced the tension in the bolt... PTFE would probably be a better choice...

    Holy crap man!! How long did it take to get that way? Did you try contacting Stern to see if they would send you a new set of decals?

    #34 7 years ago
    Quoted from metahugh:

    Holy crap man!! How long did it take to get that way? Did you try contacting Stern to see if they would send you a new set of decals?

    I guess I've had the game about 6 months, not sure of the number of plays... maybe 500?

    I did think of contacting Stern, I only just noticed it recently to be honest... My first thougt was that it would probably be a waste of time, but no harm in trying I suppose...

    #35 7 years ago
    Quoted from pinballslave:

    The pink 'washers' by the way are my way of trying to protect the custom paint on the legs... they're just compressed paper type plumbing washers

    terry @ pinball life sells protectors for the legs too (in the way of little nylon washers that keep the paint/plating from getting chipped by the leg bolts

    pg_nylon.jpg

    http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=2517

    #36 7 years ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    terry @ pinball life sells protectors for the legs too (in the way of little nylon washers that keep the paint/plating from getting chipped by the leg bolts

    Cool... I should have known someone would have already thought of this and have them readily available!

    #37 7 years ago
    Quoted from metahugh:

    Holy crap man!! How long did it take to get that way? Did you try contacting Stern to see if they would send you a new set of decals?

    My TF-LE combo #25 looked EXACTLY like that within a few weeks!!!!

    (And yes Bryan Kelly, I lifted the legs before tightening).

    And yes, Stern did send a replacement decal set out.

    #38 7 years ago

    you don't lift the legs before tightening. You loosely tighten them, then let the game drop on the bolts, then tighten. So the legs are as far up as they can go when you tighten them. By pushing up, it's too easy to not have enough pressure on the bolt.

    #39 7 years ago

    I also found a thread here discussing these and and another alternative

    http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/anyone-know-the-part-or-dimensionspinguard-nylon-leg-bolt-protectors

    the fiber washers discussed can be found at your local home depot (and the color is great for those with dark colored legs so that it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb like the white nylon does):

    http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202209546/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=fiber+washer&storeId=10051

    #40 7 years ago
    Quoted from fattrain:

    And yes, Stern did send a replacement decal set out.

    Mmm, I guess I should get in touch then!! Thanks for the motivation!

    #41 7 years ago

    I finally installed a set of metal protectors on my TF. I had a tiny bit of damage at the front right of the game. Pictures of the install:

    http://gallery.metahugh.com/main.php?g2_itemId=33186

    #42 7 years ago
    Quoted from fattrain:

    My TF-LE combo #25 looked EXACTLY like that within a few weeks!!!!
    (And yes Bryan Kelly, I lifted the legs before tightening).
    And yes, Stern did send a replacement decal set out.

    Have you installed your new Decals yet?
    If so, I guess you went with the water approach.

    #43 7 years ago
    Quoted from Squizz:

    Have you installed your new Decals yet?If so, I guess you went with the water approach.

    Has anyone installed replacement Stern decals? I'm getting a replacement front decal for the new Tron. I want to install it, but need to make sure I don't tear the side decals (where the front overlaps) when removing the decal. This is my only fear. I've install plenty of decals on arcade games, so no worries there. Sorry for the derail and I can start a new thread if necessary.

    #44 7 years ago

    how do you get sterns to send you a replacment decal set?

    #45 7 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    how do you get sterns to send you a replacment decal set?

    I'm just getting the front decal, but all I did was call and ask because mine has a small tear. It's a small thing, but I was like, "crap" as soon as I opened the box. My display also has a single vertical line that is always on at half brightness. They are sending a new display as well.

    #46 7 years ago

    Has anyone tried the cut decal and metal protectors on a Bally/Williams game yet? If so could you post pics? I'm struggling with my Twilight Zone decals I've installed. It looked FANTASTIC when I was done and then as I always do I installed the pincab protectors on thinking that was what I should do then all of a sudden a few days later I notice air bubbles coming up around the edge of the pincab protectors. I've since ordered felt and after I installed the felt I noticed on one leg it brought a bubble also. But I made a small slit into the air bubble and pushed out the air before I put on the felt protectors on. I'm wondering if thats what brought on the new air bubble after the felt protectors. Man I'm thinking I might order a new set of decals just to get it perfect. Its sooo frustrating and it really isn't as bad as I'm making it sound but I put SO much time into making this Twilight Zone look new it sucks to have this happening to the decals. If I do put new decals on I'm going to put those metal protectors on and do people put pincabs or felt protectors on between the metal protector and the leg? Or do you just put on the leg directly to the metal protector?

    #48 7 years ago

    Did know the metal protectors were out there .... Dang .... I ordered the plastic ones for my TFLE. Guess I'll keep my fingers crossed.

    #49 7 years ago

    the plastic ones suck and will wrinkle if you have cheap ass decals on your game. So all newer sterns will wrinkle.

    #50 7 years ago
    Quoted from Bay78:

    Has anyone tried the cut decal and metal protectors on a Bally/Williams game yet? If so could you post pics? ... If I do put new decals on I'm going to put those metal protectors on and do people put pincabs or felt protectors on between the metal protector and the leg? Or do you just put on the leg directly to the metal protector?

    Chris at HEP does it on his games (cut decals around the protector) and while he uses a slightly different technique the stern metal protectors would so the same thing. You install the metal protectors over the final decal, and take a razor to strike the decal around the outline. then apply the leg on top of the metal protector and you should be 100% fine. If the pressure moves the protector at all, the decal cant wrinkle. That said, do what Brian Kelly mentions.. dont tighten the leg until the weight of the pin is on the legs... the combination of the two techniques should be bullet proof.

    Regarding felt in between.. i did something similar before the metal protectors, but the metal should be fine by itself as it will not give at all unlike other methods where you really need a cushion to prevent the legs from digging in.

    Oh, and regarding the pincabs.. ONLY for games already damaged and even then probably not best for games with decals.. screen painted games you should be fine to use them to cover leg marks.

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