Ugh, I was ticked off when they did that with no notice. I called them because money was disappearing and there was no explaination as to where it went. I was probably on the phone for about 2 hours since nobody was able to tell me what was happening at first.

As for an alternative payment processor, I've heard of some people using square for in-person purchases. There are a bunch of other alternatives too, so taking credit card payments and whatnot isn't a problem.

However, finding an alternative for person-to-person transactions is tough. Almost everyone has paypal. It's basically a standard. If you go with another service, it's usually safe to assume other people don't use it. Google wallet is one service that can do free person-to-person transactions, but I can't think of anyone who actually uses it.

You completely abuse their system and then wonder what brought this on??? The friends and family feature is great and is truly a "service" to paypal members. Kind of refreshing in this day and age. I'm glad they are cracking down on abusers rather than let a few bad apples spoil it for the rest of us.

Avoiding fees is fraud....

Perhaps after several LARGE transfers they want to see shipping and receiving info to make sure stuff is actually being sold. 3% sounds low for a money laundering front.

There is a guy that runs a pizza place here that has a bunch of VERY expensive cars. We joke about you don't get that kind of dough selling dough.

Yes indeed it is. Like not reading PayPal policies you agree to when you use their service. Friends and family policies are NEVER for sales. Sheesh, stop trying to excuse yourself. You were wrong, you got caught. Man up and move on.

Competition is good and Papal doesn't have enough of it... but the market seems to be evolving. Here's an article I peeked at earlier this week:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-06-12/five-apps-for-paying-friends-family-and-businesses

Maybe Zelle could overcome the "everybody has it" barrier to entry if it really ends up integrated into so many major banks online, but I wouldn't expect it to come without fees. Banks like money... so do Apple and FB. I guess Bitcoin is out there too.

My little revolt against PayPal was to add a "mail order" form to the KAHR.US website a few years ago. I've had a total of ONE mail order come in. I also use Square at the pinball shows... it would be great if it were possible to integrate "square payment" buttons as easily as it is to integrate PayPal buttons into a small business website.

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or for my Pinball 2000 H+V video sync combiner kit

You don't have a clue. What they told you on the phone is common diplomatic rhetoric when speaking to a disgruntled customer.

They flagged you for 3 large transactions that were obviously sales.

Regardless of what they told you , that was the reason. They have been saying for months that they would be doing this. Get a clue.

I think they would like large transactions. That's how they make their money. 3% of $10,000 is much more than 3% of $10.

They probably don't like people using their service and not paying the agreed funds. That's how they don't make their money.

Oh, and the mouth breather comment is uncalled for. If you don't like the message attack the messenger.

Nope. As I said this is a common practice in customer service. When the customer calls you act like what you are doing is to help the customer. My son is in customer service phone support and I can show you the manual.

The fact that this only happened after accepting the friends and family and the fact they held your money and the "investigation" proves it. Dont kid yourself.

No need to get hurt feelings and get ugly. Just take it and move on.

PP is offering a nice free service here. Mom and Dad can send Jr. some money at college when he is getting a little low. There is a section on PP where it says it is for sales of goods. As you have just said yourself, "the pin sales"...... so you WERE selling and using PP for a sales vehicle can couldn't care less if you blow it for some who wants to send some money to grandma.

If they were/are friends why not just have them send you a check? Of course, you would have to buy a stamp.

That's just what they told you. I'm sure by now that PP has got it message across to you and it will probably be awhile for you "move" another pin via F & F.

wouldn't it had been nice if they doing this years ago when we all paid for predator - thanks ed

Exactly. There were no coincidences here. And the 15% hold is a punishment and a reminder

maybe next time, you'll do the right thing.

Seems like they are punishing you for something, I wonder what they could be upset about?

Paypal is doing their due diligence, attempting to protect the financial interests of their company and both involved parties.

My local bank has done the same, freezing deposits twice on large wire transfers to ensure that the transaction is legit and both parties are satisfied. For me, it's an acceptable part of the business environment and though inconvenient, is anticipated.

It comes down to the individual...is the acceptable risk/hoops offset by the value of the service, for me, it is.

Hope everyone remembers, starting this year if you have gross sales over $20,000 and have over 200 sales in a calendar year, you and the IRS will receive a 1099-K.

From https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/irs6050w

"Personal payments that are not payments for the sale of goods or services will not be counted when determining if the IRS thresholds have been reached and will not be included on your Form 1099-K if you exceed the thresholds. However, all payments received for the sale of goods or services will be used to calculate the gross payment volume to be reported. PayPal monitors accounts to ensure that personal payments are not being used for sales of goods and services."

I collect rent at my model house often with Google Wallet. Pretty simple to use, one click and they send rent right into my bank account. Haven't had a problem with that so far. I don't know how well web integrated they are though for something like a website checkout system, I've only used it via the phone app.

Paypal has been 1099'ing for some time now. They sent me one some years ago when I had sold my old classic game collection on ebay.

Yeah, they fkd me once. Sold a machine to a guy that insisted on not using the friends and family option even though I thought we were friends. Once in my account I tried to gift the money out to another friend and they wouldn't let me. Money in MY account that I couldn't get out. MY MONEY, not their money.

And you also said at the beginning of your post that they froze the account because of "increased activity". - one of several reasons any banking system can post a red flag, not unique to Paypal. Just think if there were actual fraud how much a mess it would make if there wasn't this kind of protection. My wife and I had to completely revamp all our accounts at PNC around two years ago because of fraud.

Now my wife was frozen out of her ATM card just two days ago because of two transactions that were detected outside of our normal geographic range range of activity, the transactions happened in Columbus, Oh and we live in Cleveland, Oh. and they were not very large, around $100 each. She called them and then had to go to the bank branch yesterday afternoon and get a new card again, and the transactions are still pending so we can't even dispute them at this time.

Oooh. THat is going to hammer a lot of sellers. Sellers, you better get receipts for anything you buy that you also plan on selling I have a receipt for on of my pinball machines. The rest were all bought with cash with no receipt---so as far as the IRS would be concerned, my cost basis in a pin---with no receipt--would be a cost basis on $0.00.

Sell off your collection you long time collection for around $25,000.00. If you cannot document your costs, the IRA will consider that you owe taxes on income of $25,000.00. Even if you had more than $25K invested in your collection.

This partly explains why PP is getting a little squirrelly about this. PP now has a partner, looking over its shoulder, called the IRS.

That isn't new, been like that for years.

Yup, I can confirm they've done it to me too. It was fine, I was already set to pay taxes on it all. But my advice is if you use PayPal for business in any fashion don't mix in other transactions with it, easy way to get burned.

Yes , years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_1099-K

Don't forget, gross vs net when calculating what you've received.

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They have a lot to watch out for, I'd chalk it up to impact from abusers vs PayPal not caring about customers. Ultimately it isn't a good experience, however they feel that outweighs the risk. I can imagine a lot of money laundering in that 'family transfer' and illegitimate businesses. Its possible that their investigations are part of an official investigation and they are working with authorities to weed out certain types of activity.

"Official Investigations" would not be entrusted to the idiots that work at Paypus.

I mostly work with girls in their 20s and they tend to be way more up to date than me with this kinda stuff, especially things like mobile payments. Most of them use Google wallet, it's pretty standard. I got mocked for being an old guy lol because I wasn't using it. They mostly all abandoned PayPal because it's so easy to reverse charges. What's good with Google wallet is that it isn't an account like PayPal is. So when someone sends you cash with Google wallet it goes directly to your bank account, so they can't then reverse it later as is so easy with PayPal. Some use venmo as well.

I've heard venmo is popular and I should probably open a google wallet account too. I've used PayPal friends a lot and haven't been screwed, but understand that they can create a lot of hassles. Few times I used PayPal for goods and had a problem with delivery, PayPal was worthless protecting my rights. I look forward to using some alternative forms of finance in the future.

Thanks for posting the heads up pinmaniac.

I'm not sure if I upvoted your post because of the good information, or because you work with mostly girls in their 20s.

What astounds me is the number of people defending a massive, multi-national company that doesn't give a stuff about their customers.

Worse actually, PayPus shows complete and utter contempt towards their customers with their policies and completely hopeless "customer service" and will screw you over in a microsecond.

I guess the world is made of different people, some won't tolerate being bungholed while others relish the thought!

Thank God for our Ombudsman because, by now, Australians would have tracked down the PayPus office and burned it to the ground. We just won't put up with crap like that dished out by PayPus.

Downvote away, I couldn't care less. Yes, COULD NOT care less.

Amen!! PayPal is for suckers.

John

It is most likely your increase in activity triggered thresholds that are in place for investigating potential money laundering. I've worked in the financial industry and while I was not directly involved with this, I've taken many training courses on this.

Avoid Pay Pal at all costs!!!!!!!!!!! shipped a game to a buyer and he didn't like it when it arrived, even when I sent him all the pics ahead of time, and he signed off on the STI paperwork. He disputed the game with his credit card agency and I took the hit.He got a full refund and I had to ship the game back to my home.

Wow, time flies. I thought something about it changed as of this year, whatever.

I'm finally about to start selling tons (literally) of stuff on eBay, and PayPal is a necessary evil there, but each item will be small enough to eat the loss if something goes awry, certainly nothing so pricey as a pinball!

Since I only amassed things I could sell for ten times or more what I paid, I'll be able to laugh off the odd snafu, and not take them personally or let them affect my sleep or blood pressure. I'm much more worried about the general public visiting my store, and I am crossing my fingers that I can handle dealing with the hopefully occasional unreasonable idiot.

back when I signed up for paypal, we didn't have fees. the agreement I signed said nothing about paying fees for anything. In fact. Paypal paid me $5 to even sign up for their site. Also, ebays fees were 1/2%, and .25% to start. So them taking 20% now between ebay and now paypal, I think they are getting more than their fair share. Enough so they shouldn't be giving people shit about things.

Here is a page from Paypal's original site.

No fees.

They made their money off of the interest on the Float of everyone's cash sitting in their accounts.

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Lol, exactly.

Glad to hear he was able to get his money back after you lied to him and then refused to make it right.

In case people missed that thread....
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bad-seller-alert-gorf/page/5

Had a bad experience with PayPal as a seller on eBay, and basically had no rights, and PayPal authorized eBay to access my credit card without my authority. Luckily when I disputed directly through my credit card, they couldn't justify the transaction and I got my money back.

It's no doubt very convenient, but as a seller you basically give up all control. As a buyer it's fantastic (see Heighway Alien thread ) and you have a lot of security.

Now I never sell anything using PayPal, but as a buyer I'll use it whenever possible.

I won't clutter up this page with current policy, but it's free to purchase with PayPal or send money to friends and family. If you use it to pay for goods or services that fee is 2.9%.

Unemployment and the welfare system gets abused too by people circumventing the system. I've used F&F too for certain transactions, but I've done it in moderation to avoid this very scenario. I just assumed there would be checks and balances.

If you are saying it's friends and family but really selling something, that is ripping off PayPal. It's the same as going to Chipotle and asking for a water cup (free) and then filling it up with Coke. Or if you walk into a bank and start taking their pens, that's not why they have pens there. Come to think of it, banks put pens on little chains, I wonder why.

PayPal is a business they are not there for you to send money for sale of goods free of charge.

If Paypal is run somewhat similar to a bank, and an official suspects possible money laundering, they will file a report with the Serious Organized Crime agency. The account will remain frozen until SOCA replies with consent to unfreeze the account, 7 days pass from report filing without a response from SOCA, or the bank satisfies itself that it no longer has grounds for its suspicion. Basically, no one is going to unfreeze the account until they hear back from SOCA if a report is actually filed, and Paypal itself would not be conducting any official investigation. I'm not saying that I know this is a policy with Paypal, but it is a possibility.

I thought the over $250 limit requiring a signature was raised to $750?

Below link on lower left of page.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/seller-protection

Sure, but to work at a bank, you have to pass a background check and be bonded.

Paypud, on the other hand, hires the dumbest employees on the planet; worse than even Comcrap.

-

US Government: Good afternoon Mr. Patel, we would like you to assist the US Government in investigating some Serious Pinball Crime.

Reyansh Patel: Please call me Mike. Here is one computer virus I have wroten. Try on your servers and I will like; very much.

USG: Ummm.... did you say you are giving me a computer virus???

Mike: It's fine. Please help me, to help you. Is there anything else you have question with today?

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