(Topic ID: 191491)

Avoid PayPal like the plague


By pinmaniac

2 years ago



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  • 112 posts
  • 62 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Homepin
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    #51 2 years ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    Everybody bitched when e bay tacked on 10% fees to shipping costs as well as the cost of the item. What were they supposed to do, let everybody sell a $300 item for $18 and charge $282 for shipping to avoid fees?

    Ugh, I was ticked off when they did that with no notice. I called them because money was disappearing and there was no explaination as to where it went. I was probably on the phone for about 2 hours since nobody was able to tell me what was happening at first.

    As for an alternative payment processor, I've heard of some people using square for in-person purchases. There are a bunch of other alternatives too, so taking credit card payments and whatnot isn't a problem.

    However, finding an alternative for person-to-person transactions is tough. Almost everyone has paypal. It's basically a standard. If you go with another service, it's usually safe to assume other people don't use it. Google wallet is one service that can do free person-to-person transactions, but I can't think of anyone who actually uses it.

    #52 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinmaniac:

    Despite the advice here I accepted PayPal friends and family for three recent pinball sales.

    You completely abuse their system and then wonder what brought this on??? The friends and family feature is great and is truly a "service" to paypal members. Kind of refreshing in this day and age. I'm glad they are cracking down on abusers rather than let a few bad apples spoil it for the rest of us.

    #53 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinmaniac:

    Had nothing to do with avoiding fees. They said they were concerned with fraud despite no complaints from anyone and a stellar record over the years.

    Avoiding fees is fraud....

    #54 2 years ago
    Quoted from Toasterdog:

    I personally love PayPal.
    It's not perfect, but it allows people to accept CC payments with no terminal or processing company contracts. I can send $$ securely to people and buy products online without typing a CC # whenever in need to buy something.
    I have bought and sold lots of pins without a hitch. I love 6 months same as cash and take advantage of it often. I have no problem accepting or using PayPal.
    I would suggest reviewing their policies though. I would never ship something over $250 w/o signature confirmation. Don't accept PayPal for a large ticket item and let someone pick it up unless you know them well. Shipping is fine, but it must be with a reputable shipping company that uses traceable/traceable shipping documents.
    PayPal doesn't hold my money. If they hold yours, more then likely you haven't had that many transactions with them and they are making sure everything is legit.

    I had the same feelings you had until yesterday. I figured the stories others had about problems with PayPal were their fault no matter how much the expressed innocence. Well, if you continue to use PayPal you are likely to eventually be treated as I and thousands of others have been. Believe me it sucks to to everything according to their terms and still be treated like crap.

    And to those saying I'm trying to avoid their fees by using friends and family - get a grip. If they want fees for every transaction then they shouldn't offer a friends and family transaction. The pin sales were to friends of mine.

    -8
    #55 2 years ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    Avoiding fees is fraud....

    Lack of reading comprehension is stupid.

    #56 2 years ago

    Perhaps after several LARGE transfers they want to see shipping and receiving info to make sure stuff is actually being sold. 3% sounds low for a money laundering front.

    There is a guy that runs a pizza place here that has a bunch of VERY expensive cars. We joke about you don't get that kind of dough selling dough.

    #57 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinmaniac:

    Lack of reading comprehension is stupid.

    Yes indeed it is. Like not reading PayPal policies you agree to when you use their service. Friends and family policies are NEVER for sales. Sheesh, stop trying to excuse yourself. You were wrong, you got caught. Man up and move on.

    -2
    #58 2 years ago
    Quoted from hailrazer:

    Yes indeed it is. Like not reading PayPal policies you agree to when you use their service. Friends and family policies are NEVER for sales. Sheesh, stop trying to excuse yourself. You were wrong, you got caught. Man up and move on.

    You have no clue what you are talking about. I don't know how many times I have to explain for the mouth breathers. I spoke with PayPal directly. They couldn't care less that I was using friends and family. They didn't like seeing three large transactions in one week. Sheesh, did you read my first post? Not looking for useless comments just trying to pass info along so others don't end up in this situation.

    #59 2 years ago

    Competition is good and Papal doesn't have enough of it... but the market seems to be evolving. Here's an article I peeked at earlier this week:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-06-12/five-apps-for-paying-friends-family-and-businesses

    Maybe Zelle could overcome the "everybody has it" barrier to entry if it really ends up integrated into so many major banks online, but I wouldn't expect it to come without fees. Banks like money... so do Apple and FB. I guess Bitcoin is out there too.

    My little revolt against PayPal was to add a "mail order" form to the KAHR.US website a few years ago. I've had a total of ONE mail order come in. I also use Square at the pinball shows... it would be great if it were possible to integrate "square payment" buttons as easily as it is to integrate PayPal buttons into a small business website.

    -Rob
    -visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or for my Pinball 2000 H+V video sync combiner kit

    #60 2 years ago

    You don't have a clue. What they told you on the phone is common diplomatic rhetoric when speaking to a disgruntled customer.

    They flagged you for 3 large transactions that were obviously sales.

    Regardless of what they told you , that was the reason. They have been saying for months that they would be doing this. Get a clue.

    #61 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinmaniac:

    You have no clue what you are talking about. I don't know how many times I have to explain for the mouth breathers. I spoke with PayPal directly. They couldn't care less that I was using friends and family. They didn't like seeing three large transactions in one week. Sheesh, did you read my first post? Not looking for useless comments just trying to pass info along so others don't end up in this situation.

    I think they would like large transactions. That's how they make their money. 3% of $10,000 is much more than 3% of $10.

    They probably don't like people using their service and not paying the agreed funds. That's how they don't make their money.

    Oh, and the mouth breather comment is uncalled for. If you don't like the message attack the messenger.

    -2
    #62 2 years ago
    Quoted from hailrazer:

    You don't have a clue. What they told you on the phone is common diplomatic rhetoric when speaking to a disgruntled customer.
    They flagged you for 3 large transactions that were obviously sales.
    Regardless of what they told you , that was the reason. They have been saying for months that they would be doing this. Get a clue.

    Lol, ok expert. I assume you work for PayPal as you know the "real reason". You are the one who needs a clue. Why don't you stop posting until you have something of value to add? Because you are an expert who will have to have the last word.

    #63 2 years ago

    They flagged me because my volume spiked and they are increasingly worried about fraud. Since this discussion has degraded I will bow out. My intention was to warn that you are at PayPals mercy if you use them and I think that has been accomplished.

    #64 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinmaniac:

    They flagged me because my volume spiked and they are increasingly worried about fraud. Since this discussion has degraded I will bow out. My intention was to warn that you are at PayPals mercy if you use them and I think that has been accomplished.

    Nope. As I said this is a common practice in customer service. When the customer calls you act like what you are doing is to help the customer. My son is in customer service phone support and I can show you the manual.

    The fact that this only happened after accepting the friends and family and the fact they held your money and the "investigation" proves it. Dont kid yourself.

    No need to get hurt feelings and get ugly. Just take it and move on.

    #65 2 years ago
    Quoted from hailrazer:

    Nope. As I said this is a common practice in customer service. When the customer calls you act like what you are doing is to help the customer. My son is in customer service phone support and I can show you the manual.
    The fact that this only happened after accepting the friends and family and the fact they held your money and the "investigation" proves it. Dont kid yourself.
    No need to get hurt feelings and get ugly. Just take it and move on.

    Nope, I literally got a call from PayPal 2 minutes ago. The lock n my account is off, but they are now holding 15% of all future transactions for 90 days. Nothing to do with friends and family. According to policy they are implementing this for those with large transactions.

    #66 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinmaniac:

    If they want fees for every transaction then they shouldn't offer a friends and family transaction. The pin sales were to friends of mine.

    PP is offering a nice free service here. Mom and Dad can send Jr. some money at college when he is getting a little low. There is a section on PP where it says it is for sales of goods. As you have just said yourself, "the pin sales"...... so you WERE selling and using PP for a sales vehicle can couldn't care less if you blow it for some who wants to send some money to grandma.

    If they were/are friends why not just have them send you a check? Of course, you would have to buy a stamp.

    #67 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinmaniac:

    They couldn't care less that I was using friends and family. They didn't like seeing three large transactions in one week.

    That's just what they told you. I'm sure by now that PP has got it message across to you and it will probably be awhile for you "move" another pin via F & F.

    #68 2 years ago

    wouldn't it had been nice if they doing this years ago when we all paid for predator - thanks ed

    #69 2 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    That's just what they told you. I'm sure by now that PP has got it message across to you and it will probably be awhile for you "move" another pin via F & F.

    Exactly. There were no coincidences here. And the 15% hold is a punishment and a reminder

    #70 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinmaniac:

    Despite the advice here I accepted PayPal friends and family for three recent pinball sales.

    maybe next time, you'll do the right thing.

    #71 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinmaniac:

    Nope, I literally got a call from PayPal 2 minutes ago. The lock n my account is off, but they are now holding 15% of all future transactions for 90 days. Nothing to do with friends and family. According to policy they are implementing this for those with large transactions.

    Seems like they are punishing you for something, I wonder what they could be upset about?

    #72 2 years ago

    Paypal is doing their due diligence, attempting to protect the financial interests of their company and both involved parties.

    My local bank has done the same, freezing deposits twice on large wire transfers to ensure that the transaction is legit and both parties are satisfied. For me, it's an acceptable part of the business environment and though inconvenient, is anticipated.

    It comes down to the individual...is the acceptable risk/hoops offset by the value of the service, for me, it is.

    #73 2 years ago

    Hope everyone remembers, starting this year if you have gross sales over $20,000 and have over 200 sales in a calendar year, you and the IRS will receive a 1099-K.

    From https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/irs6050w

    "Personal payments that are not payments for the sale of goods or services will not be counted when determining if the IRS thresholds have been reached and will not be included on your Form 1099-K if you exceed the thresholds. However, all payments received for the sale of goods or services will be used to calculate the gross payment volume to be reported. PayPal monitors accounts to ensure that personal payments are not being used for sales of goods and services."

    #74 2 years ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    I am not a fan of PayPal either, but there isnt much of an alternative. We accept credit cards and payment goes right into a bank account, but most people prefer to use PayPal. eBay is basically exclusively PayPal. For transactions at shows, we stopped using PayPal and moved to square. PayPal holds funds you collect above $500 for 30 days, which I find to be complete BS.
    Show me an alternative and I'll drop PayPal fast.

    I collect rent at my model house often with Google Wallet. Pretty simple to use, one click and they send rent right into my bank account. Haven't had a problem with that so far. I don't know how well web integrated they are though for something like a website checkout system, I've only used it via the phone app.

    Quoted from DanQverymuch:

    Hope everyone remembers, starting this year if you have gross sales over $20,000 and have over 200 sales in a calendar year, you and the IRS will receive a 1099-K.
    From https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/irs6050w
    "Personal payments that are not payments for the sale of goods or services will not be counted when determining if the IRS thresholds have been reached and will not be included on your Form 1099-K if you exceed the thresholds. However, all payments received for the sale of goods or services will be used to calculate the gross payment volume to be reported. PayPal monitors accounts to ensure that personal payments are not being used for sales of goods and services."

    Paypal has been 1099'ing for some time now. They sent me one some years ago when I had sold my old classic game collection on ebay.

    #75 2 years ago

    Yeah, they fkd me once. Sold a machine to a guy that insisted on not using the friends and family option even though I thought we were friends. Once in my account I tried to gift the money out to another friend and they wouldn't let me. Money in MY account that I couldn't get out. MY MONEY, not their money.

    #76 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinmaniac:

    Had nothing to do with avoiding fees. They said they were concerned with fraud despite no complaints from anyone and a stellar record over the years.

    And you also said at the beginning of your post that they froze the account because of "increased activity". - one of several reasons any banking system can post a red flag, not unique to Paypal. Just think if there were actual fraud how much a mess it would make if there wasn't this kind of protection. My wife and I had to completely revamp all our accounts at PNC around two years ago because of fraud.

    Now my wife was frozen out of her ATM card just two days ago because of two transactions that were detected outside of our normal geographic range range of activity, the transactions happened in Columbus, Oh and we live in Cleveland, Oh. and they were not very large, around $100 each. She called them and then had to go to the bank branch yesterday afternoon and get a new card again, and the transactions are still pending so we can't even dispute them at this time.

    #77 2 years ago
    Quoted from DanQverymuch:

    Hope everyone remembers, starting this year if you have gross sales over $20,000 and have over 200 sales in a calendar year, you and the IRS will receive a 1099-K.
    From https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/irs6050w
    "Personal payments that are not payments for the sale of goods or services will not be counted when determining if the IRS thresholds have been reached and will not be included on your Form 1099-K if you exceed the thresholds. However, all payments received for the sale of goods or services will be used to calculate the gross payment volume to be reported. PayPal monitors accounts to ensure that personal payments are not being used for sales of goods and services."

    Oooh. THat is going to hammer a lot of sellers. Sellers, you better get receipts for anything you buy that you also plan on selling I have a receipt for on of my pinball machines. The rest were all bought with cash with no receipt---so as far as the IRS would be concerned, my cost basis in a pin---with no receipt--would be a cost basis on $0.00.

    Sell off your collection you long time collection for around $25,000.00. If you cannot document your costs, the IRA will consider that you owe taxes on income of $25,000.00. Even if you had more than $25K invested in your collection.

    This partly explains why PP is getting a little squirrelly about this. PP now has a partner, looking over its shoulder, called the IRS.

    #78 2 years ago
    Quoted from DanQverymuch:

    Hope everyone remembers, starting this year if you have gross sales over $20,000 and have over 200 sales in a calendar year, you and the IRS will receive a 1099-K.

    That isn't new, been like that for years.

    Quoted from Reality_Studio:

    Paypal has been 1099'ing for some time now. They sent me one some years ago when I had sold my old classic game collection on ebay.

    Yup, I can confirm they've done it to me too. It was fine, I was already set to pay taxes on it all. But my advice is if you use PayPal for business in any fashion don't mix in other transactions with it, easy way to get burned.

    #79 2 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    That isn't new, been like that for years

    Yes , years.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_1099-K

    Don't forget, gross vs net when calculating what you've received.

    #80 2 years ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    , the IRA will consider that you owe taxes on income of $25,000.00.

    bf5670dc6e3f4eef09236685a1b270e3 (resized).jpg

    #81 2 years ago

    They have a lot to watch out for, I'd chalk it up to impact from abusers vs PayPal not caring about customers. Ultimately it isn't a good experience, however they feel that outweighs the risk. I can imagine a lot of money laundering in that 'family transfer' and illegitimate businesses. Its possible that their investigations are part of an official investigation and they are working with authorities to weed out certain types of activity.

    #82 2 years ago
    Quoted from VacFink:

    Its possible that their investigations are part of an official investigation and they are working with authorities to weed out certain types of activity.

    "Official Investigations" would not be entrusted to the idiots that work at Paypus.

    #83 2 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Google wallet is one service that can do free person-to-person transactions, but I can't think of anyone who actually uses it.

    I mostly work with girls in their 20s and they tend to be way more up to date than me with this kinda stuff, especially things like mobile payments. Most of them use Google wallet, it's pretty standard. I got mocked for being an old guy lol because I wasn't using it. They mostly all abandoned PayPal because it's so easy to reverse charges. What's good with Google wallet is that it isn't an account like PayPal is. So when someone sends you cash with Google wallet it goes directly to your bank account, so they can't then reverse it later as is so easy with PayPal. Some use venmo as well.

    #84 2 years ago
    Quoted from Reality_Studio:

    I mostly work with girls in their 20s and they tend to be way more up to date than me with this kinda stuff, especially things like mobile payments. Most of them use Google wallet, it's pretty standard. I got mocked for being an old guy lol because I wasn't using it. They mostly all abandoned PayPal because it's so easy to reverse charges. What's good with Google wallet is that it isn't an account like PayPal is. So when someone sends you cash with Google wallet it goes directly to your bank account, so they can't then reverse it later as is so easy with PayPal. Some use venmo as well.

    I've heard venmo is popular and I should probably open a google wallet account too. I've used PayPal friends a lot and haven't been screwed, but understand that they can create a lot of hassles. Few times I used PayPal for goods and had a problem with delivery, PayPal was worthless protecting my rights. I look forward to using some alternative forms of finance in the future.

    Thanks for posting the heads up pinmaniac.

    #85 2 years ago
    Quoted from Reality_Studio:

    I mostly work with girls in their 20s and they tend to be way more up to date than me with this kinda stuff, especially things like mobile payments. Most of them use Google wallet, it's pretty standard. I got mocked for being an old guy lol because I wasn't using it. They mostly all abandoned PayPal because it's so easy to reverse charges. What's good with Google wallet is that it isn't an account like PayPal is. So when someone sends you cash with Google wallet it goes directly to your bank account, so they can't then reverse it later as is so easy with PayPal. Some use venmo as well.

    I'm not sure if I upvoted your post because of the good information, or because you work with mostly girls in their 20s.

    #86 2 years ago

    What astounds me is the number of people defending a massive, multi-national company that doesn't give a stuff about their customers.

    Worse actually, PayPus shows complete and utter contempt towards their customers with their policies and completely hopeless "customer service" and will screw you over in a microsecond.

    I guess the world is made of different people, some won't tolerate being bungholed while others relish the thought!

    Thank God for our Ombudsman because, by now, Australians would have tracked down the PayPus office and burned it to the ground. We just won't put up with crap like that dished out by PayPus.

    Downvote away, I couldn't care less. Yes, COULD NOT care less.

    #87 2 years ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    I prefer to buy/sell my machines in person with cash.

    Amen!! PayPal is for suckers.

    John

    #88 2 years ago

    It is most likely your increase in activity triggered thresholds that are in place for investigating potential money laundering. I've worked in the financial industry and while I was not directly involved with this, I've taken many training courses on this.

    -10
    #89 2 years ago

    Avoid Pay Pal at all costs!!!!!!!!!!! shipped a game to a buyer and he didn't like it when it arrived, even when I sent him all the pics ahead of time, and he signed off on the STI paperwork. He disputed the game with his credit card agency and I took the hit.He got a full refund and I had to ship the game back to my home.

    #90 2 years ago

    Wow, time flies. I thought something about it changed as of this year, whatever.

    I'm finally about to start selling tons (literally) of stuff on eBay, and PayPal is a necessary evil there, but each item will be small enough to eat the loss if something goes awry, certainly nothing so pricey as a pinball!

    Since I only amassed things I could sell for ten times or more what I paid, I'll be able to laugh off the odd snafu, and not take them personally or let them affect my sleep or blood pressure. I'm much more worried about the general public visiting my store, and I am crossing my fingers that I can handle dealing with the hopefully occasional unreasonable idiot.

    #91 2 years ago

    back when I signed up for paypal, we didn't have fees. the agreement I signed said nothing about paying fees for anything. In fact. Paypal paid me $5 to even sign up for their site. Also, ebays fees were 1/2%, and .25% to start. So them taking 20% now between ebay and now paypal, I think they are getting more than their fair share. Enough so they shouldn't be giving people shit about things.

    10
    #92 2 years ago

    Here is a page from Paypal's original site.

    No fees.

    They made their money off of the interest on the Float of everyone's cash sitting in their accounts.

    4fe099ed9aec20368b3df77d7fb5354f9c55079b (resized).jpg

    #93 2 years ago
    Quoted from pinmaniac:

    Had nothing to do with avoiding fees. They said they were concerned with fraud...

    Lol, exactly.

    11
    #94 2 years ago
    Quoted from Gorf:

    Avoid Pay Pal at all costs!!!!!!!!!!! shipped a T3 to "nocreditdot" and he didn't like it when it arrived, even when I sent him all the pics ahead of time, and he signed off on the STI paperwork. He disputed the game with his credit card agency and I took the hit.He got a full refund and I had to ship the game back to my home.

    Glad to hear he was able to get his money back after you lied to him and then refused to make it right.

    In case people missed that thread....
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bad-seller-alert-gorf/page/5

    #95 2 years ago

    Had a bad experience with PayPal as a seller on eBay, and basically had no rights, and PayPal authorized eBay to access my credit card without my authority. Luckily when I disputed directly through my credit card, they couldn't justify the transaction and I got my money back.

    It's no doubt very convenient, but as a seller you basically give up all control. As a buyer it's fantastic (see Heighway Alien thread ) and you have a lot of security.

    Now I never sell anything using PayPal, but as a buyer I'll use it whenever possible.

    #96 2 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Here is a page from Paypal's original site.
    No fees.
    They made their money off of the interest on the Float of everyone's cash sitting in their accounts.

    I won't clutter up this page with current policy, but it's free to purchase with PayPal or send money to friends and family. If you use it to pay for goods or services that fee is 2.9%.

    Unemployment and the welfare system gets abused too by people circumventing the system. I've used F&F too for certain transactions, but I've done it in moderation to avoid this very scenario. I just assumed there would be checks and balances.

    #97 2 years ago

    If you are saying it's friends and family but really selling something, that is ripping off PayPal. It's the same as going to Chipotle and asking for a water cup (free) and then filling it up with Coke. Or if you walk into a bank and start taking their pens, that's not why they have pens there. Come to think of it, banks put pens on little chains, I wonder why.

    PayPal is a business they are not there for you to send money for sale of goods free of charge.

    #98 2 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    "Official Investigations" would not be entrusted to the idiots that work at Paypus.

    If Paypal is run somewhat similar to a bank, and an official suspects possible money laundering, they will file a report with the Serious Organized Crime agency. The account will remain frozen until SOCA replies with consent to unfreeze the account, 7 days pass from report filing without a response from SOCA, or the bank satisfies itself that it no longer has grounds for its suspicion. Basically, no one is going to unfreeze the account until they hear back from SOCA if a report is actually filed, and Paypal itself would not be conducting any official investigation. I'm not saying that I know this is a policy with Paypal, but it is a possibility.

    #99 2 years ago
    Quoted from Toasterdog:

    I personally love PayPal.
    It's not perfect, but it allows people to accept CC payments with no terminal or processing company contracts. I can send $$ securely to people and buy products online without typing a CC # whenever in need to buy something.
    I have bought and sold lots of pins without a hitch. I love 6 months same as cash and take advantage of it often. I have no problem accepting or using PayPal.
    I would suggest reviewing their policies though. I would never ship something over $250 w/o signature confirmation. Don't accept PayPal for a large ticket item and let someone pick it up unless you know them well. Shipping is fine, but it must be with a reputable shipping company that uses traceable/traceable shipping documents.
    PayPal doesn't hold my money. If they hold yours, more then likely you haven't had that many transactions with them and they are making sure everything is legit.

    I thought the over $250 limit requiring a signature was raised to $750?

    Below link on lower left of page.

    https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/seller-protection

    -1
    #100 2 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    If Paypal is run somewhat similar to a bank, and an official suspects possible money laundering, they will file a report with the Serious Organized Crime agency.

    Sure, but to work at a bank, you have to pass a background check and be bonded.

    Paypud, on the other hand, hires the dumbest employees on the planet; worse than even Comcrap.

    -

    US Government: Good afternoon Mr. Patel, we would like you to assist the US Government in investigating some Serious Pinball Crime.

    Reyansh Patel: Please call me Mike. Here is one computer virus I have wroten. Try on your servers and I will like; very much.

    USG: Ummm.... did you say you are giving me a computer virus???

    Mike: It's fine. Please help me, to help you. Is there anything else you have question with today?

    india_call_center_philippines_competition (resized).jpg

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    ModFather Pinball Mods
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